US Open 2018

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US Open 2018

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 24 Aug - 6:13

First topic message reminder :

The draw has been made. Djoko is in Fed's quarter and they could meet in the quarters. Murray has avoided a seed in the first round - he plays Duckworth. Delpo could be his third-round opponent. Cilic v Zverev is a possible quarter final in the bottom half of the draw.
Fed could meet Kyrgios in the third round while Stan the Man faces Dimi in the first round for the second Slam running. Rafa could meet Anderson in the quarters which means someone is going to drop big points as the two were the finalists last year.
The Williams sisters could meet in the third round, with the winner possibly playing Halep after that.
Konta has a tough opener - Garcia of France the number 6 seed. Kyle Edmund, currently losing to Johnson in W-Salem, faces Lorenzi in the first round.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 8 Sep - 20:17

NNB - You're certainly right about the lack of consistency among the women. Halep is top and got to the final at the first two Slams of the year only to exit early in the next two. Caroline W has been up and down, too, while last year's Slam winners Ostapenko and Muguruza have had patchy seasons.
I see that Federer has qualified for the year-end O2 event along with Djoko. Delpo likely to qualify too. Wonder if Rafa will be fit to play in it. He's had to skip it a number of times.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sat 8 Sep - 20:38

When Nadal has to retire injured that normally signifies he will be out for several months. So hopefully he will be back firing on all cylinders for Aus 2019. I would be very surprised to see him appear before then (apart from maybe a warm-up tournament). Nadal has nearly as much mileage in the game than Federer, even though he is five years younger. Nadal was a boy wonder and started winning grand slams 23 months after Federer started winning grand slams (French Open 2005 versus Wimbledon 2003).

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by lags72 on Sat 8 Sep - 23:27

No name Bertie wrote:When Nadal has to retire injured that normally signifies he will be out for several months................  Nadal has nearly as much mileage in the game than Federer, even though he is five years younger.
...............

Will be interesting to see if he plays a couple of events late in the season - including in particular the World Tour Finals ; or, whether he decides to take a clean break and start his campaign afresh with AO in January. But hopefully back asap in good shape.

In terms of mileage ‘on the clock’ : still a long way to go to match the miles racked up by Federer, who has played over 300 career matches more than Rafa. I reckon it could take Rafa another 4 or 5 years on Tour to get to such figures, and wonder whether he will want to push his body that far, for fear of long-term damage affecting him in later life.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by MrInvisible on Sun 9 Sep - 0:31

Regarding 'Djokovic-lite' I agree he wasn't firing on all cylinders for much of Wimbledon, but the Nadal semi-final at SW19 was clearly the exception to this - that was a high quality match (no disrespect to Anderson but it felt like the 'true final' to me) and Djokovic had to play with a real intensity to see off Nadal.

For Del Potro it will mean a huge amount to be in a slam final again after all his trials and tribulations with injuries, and regardless of whether he can defeat Djokovic or not, he will be fighting very hard and won't be a pushover.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 0:42

Djokovic was lucky that he got to play Nadal under the roof at Wimbledon, had the roof been open the Spaniard would've won. Djokovic had a few flaky moments against Nishi, but the Japanese was unable to take his opportunities. Should Djokovic do the same as Delpo, the Argentine will take him down

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 7:10

Naomi Osaka took the first set of Serena Williams 6/2. The Japanese youngster has been outstanding thus far. Williams also received a warning in the second game of the second set for illegal coaching and Williams had the audacity to claim the referee got it wrong

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 7:30

Williams gets a second code violation for smashing her racket and receiving a point penalty. Williams promptly starts a screaming contest with the umpire. What a vile individual

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 7:42

WIlliams received a third code violation for calling the chair umpire a thief and lost a game.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 7:43

Naomi Osaka crushes the deplorable Serena Williams to win Japan's first major title. 6/2 6/4. Williams should be banned

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by MrInvisible on Sun 9 Sep - 7:51

Great performance from Osaka - the serving, the groundstrokes and the mental composure - really impressed on how she kept it together to close the match out despite Serena's antics.

I am normally a fan of Serena - I like her grit and fighting spirit, and whilst she might have been hard done by for the coaching warning, the umpire was only doing his job and it was completely out of order to call him a thief and question his integrity. She partly redeemed herself by giving Osaka a warm embrace at end of the match, but she was outplayed by a better player and shouldn't be using this episode as an excuse, especially as the point deduction only happened after the petulant racket throwing not after the alleged coaching.

I admire Serena for what she's achieved in the game but she will have lost a lot of fans over that episode.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by englishborn on Sun 9 Sep - 7:51

As with any sport you cannot accuse the ref/umpire of basically cheating and expect not to be punished. As in rugby you got to know the ref and play to their interpretations of the law. Serena when calling the umpire a liar and a thief she crossed the line for the umpire.
She knew she was on 2 code violations and still called the umpire liar and thief. The first was very unlikely her fault, the second was her fault and the third was completely in her control.

She has done amazing things for any tennis player, even more so for being a African american woman, but she does have a history of going over the line from time to time and unfortunately for her she has not learnt.

Even without the drama I feel Naomi Osaka was going to win, Serena was struggling to get on terms with her, and now this final will be about the wrong person.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 8:01

Serena Williams crocodile tears trying to save face after the most inexcusable behaviour.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by englishborn on Sun 9 Sep - 8:09

Have to say Serena's attitude during the ceremony was very good, she made sure it was not about her and stopped the crowd from further ruining Osaka's win. Shame she was not able to channel that on court.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 8:15

Serena Williams has past form with regard to abusing officials. It really brings the whole sport of tennis into disrepute. Symptomatic of the me me infantilised society - or at least a small part of it. Congratulations to Osaka on her most important career achievement to date.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 8:17

Serena Williams coach confirmed he was coaching her. So she was cheating. Bloody liar

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 8:43

Immediately after Osaka's victory I put radio five live on thinking they were broadcasting the boxing, but instead they were broadcasting the US tennis Open, and there was a BBC female commentator reading out twitter comments in support of Serena Williams and saying that it was unprecedented that Serena should be penalised like that. I quickly closed it down and put on talksport - which was covering the boxing. The BBC have form in being intensely sycophantic in reporting everything concerning Serena Williams. In some of the early reports you could tell the BBC were pondering how best to report it - they ended up focusing on Serena being amazingly gracious in congratulating Osaka at the end of the match.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by slashermcguirk on Sun 9 Sep - 8:56

Shocking behavior by Williams. The umpire showed serious balls to stand up to her and the huge crowd. Feel so sorry for Osaka who was superb and her win completely overshadowed. I was so angry just watching it. A first grand slam win that was so well deserved and there she is reduced to tears at the trophy presentation.

At the age of 19 she showed incredible composure when you consider the toxic atmosphere in the stadium

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 8:57

The classless Williams still spouting nonsense in the press conference. She alleges that Carlos Ramos is sexist as he's never penalised a male player for calling him a thief. I know Williams came from the gutter, but aside from her no one has every called any chair umpire a thief before. Despite he coach confirming he was coaching her, Williams states her coach is lying. She's truly lost the plot

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 9:06

This is how the BBC report it:

... The American, 36, graciously congratulated Osaka at the net after the 20th seed completed an extraordinary victory ... "I'm sorry it had to end like this," a crying Osaka said ...  

Williams was given a first code violation after Ramos judged a gesture from coach Patrick Mouratoglou to be coaching - which is allowed on the WTA Tour but not during Grand Slams. Williams insisted she had not received any tactics from Mouratoglou, telling the umpire she would "never cheat to win and would rather lose". The Frenchman later admitted to ESPN that he had been coaching from the box.  "I was coaching but I don't think she looked at me," Mouratoglou said. "Sash [Osaka's coach Sascha Bajin] was coaching as well, everybody does it." ..."

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by theslosty on Sun 9 Sep - 9:38

Impressed with Osaka for serving out the match in what was a really complicated situation for her.

As regards to Serena she is obviously one of the all time greats, male or female. She is also worthy of further admiration for achieving so much in a sport that generally doesn't offer many opportunities to those of her ethnic and socio-economic background.
However she has to be called out on this as for 10-15 minutes she acted absolutely disgracefully. That was a display of sheer petulance that would be unforgivable from a teenager never mind a player of her massive experience. Carlos Ramos handled the situation calmly and authoritatively - he kept his poise and wouldn't let himself be intimidated by the tirade of abuse coming his way.

On another tangent I do think the topic of Serena does bring out a political element in discussion which isn't always savoury. I'm not particularly a fan of her but there are sometimes sexist and racist undertones in criticism of her (not pointing at anyone on here). On the other hand she does occasionally exhibit this self-entitled, "victimhood" complex which many see as a trait of millennial society. Now I happen to be of that millennial generation and my politics are quite hard left wing but I couldn't help but cringe when she brings up her daughter as a reason she'd never cheat and then bizarrely implying Ramos' would never deal with a male player in the same fashion. I hope she can reflect in the coming days and see she was firmly in the wrong. She'd be slightly redeeming herself in my eyes if she could be courageous enough to hold her hands up and admit she was out of order.
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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 10:06

The BBC's latest updated report of the US Open Woman's final now includes condemnations of the Umpire.


The BBC have also included a tweet from Serena's Coach condemning the Umpire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45462014

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Atila on Sun 9 Sep - 10:26

True character is revealed when things are going wrong.


Didn't Serena also threaten a line judge a few years ago when things weren't going her way?

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 9 Sep - 11:42

Exactly, Serena has shown her poor character on many previous occassions. She had it coming.

Accusing the umpire of calling her a cheat is nonsense, it is the coach who was cheating, so it's a dumb thing to say. She herself is not being accussed of cheating. He did make the point/claim that everyone else does it.

What Serena did probably amounts to bullying.

Also Serena's comment that you won't referee me again. Tacky. I recall Rafa doing that. I think they should make sure he does referee her again, since she has just publically said she will chose her own referees, and this cannot be allowed. If she had not said that, it might have been better to keep them apart.

The umpire could perhaps have been slightly more lenient but was probably within the law and his rights, and I have much more sympathy for him than Serena.

However I don't agree with the charge of sexism; I have never seen any of the male players behave as badly as that for so long in a major match. However, it's debatable.

I do think in general it must be difficult struggling against sexism (and racism) in society. The difficulty is you know you are being discriminated against some of the time, but it's hard to tell exactly when. So you have the difficult choice of either putting up with it or calling people out on it when you may be wrong to do so.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 17:05

In the wee hours of the morning the BBC have developed a story that puts the case as to why the umpire should be considered sexist with a front page news headline "Williams accuses umpire of sexism in US Open final"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45461716

There are some that accuse the BBC of being "biased" to the point of being likened to an activist group.  All I would say is that there is plenty of evidence for it.


Last edited by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 17:11; edited 4 times in total

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 9 Sep - 17:06

Well, Osaka's victory has been overshadowed by the Williams' row. Umpire Ramos has been accused in the past by Andy Murray of wanting to be the centre of attention but he seems to have acted properly here.
This coaching thing needs to be sorted out. Of course coaches are going to call out things, or make certain gestures during matches. Is this really "coaching" or mere encouragement? Perhaps it would be best if they allowed coaching during matches, then there would be no grey areas.
Tough on Osaka, all this. But there are no asterisks in sport. In years to come the record books will show Naomi won the 2018 USO.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 17:15

Surprised that with all the accusations of sexism it hasn't been mentioned that McEnroe was defaulted a match in the Australian Open many moons ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozv9p8pZwKk

Hmmm I notice that the BBC also have the allegation that the umpire is sexist as their third most important story on their world news webpage:


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Re: US Open 2018

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 9 Sep - 18:16

Suggestions from some - including B-J King and Azarenka - that a man would not have been penalised in the way that Serena was. But her language was particularly offensive.
I recall Rusedski having a meltdown at Wimbledon a few years back and no doubt others can point to other male tantrums that might have gone unpunished. Ramos is a bit of an attention-seeker but given the level of abuse he was well within his rights to take action.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 9 Sep - 18:31

Billie Jean king and Azarenka siding with the vile Williams is there any surprise? The Yanks always stuck together and Azarenka is good friends with Williams. The sooner Williams retires the better

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Fernando on Sun 9 Sep - 18:57

To see people actually try defend Serena on this one makes me embarrassed to be a tennis fan honestly.

1 - Her coach admitted to coaching there is even video of it online regardless whether she saw it or not he shouldn't of been doing it. 
2 - She smashed her racket - Automatic pen
3 - I don't know about you but call anyone a thief they ain't going to take it well and she was pretty constant with shots at the umpire.

The only thing that comes out of this is a need for more consistency from umpires on the coaching.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 19:00

The umpire is well known for being a stickler for the rules and there are plenty of examples of male tennis players being defaulted the match, not just a game.  Serena Williams has also form - in 2009 in the semi-finals of the US Open, which she lost to Kim Clijsters, she threatened to kill an Asian American female line judge by stuffing tennis balls down her throat.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 9 Sep - 19:12

Some moronic comments from people like BJK. The umpire acted entirely correctly in this circumstance and Serena’s behaviour was utterly unacceptable. The fact that they have somehow made this a sexism issue beggars belief. I had hoped that, after some reflection and bearing in mind her coach admitted coaching, Serena might act maturely in due course and apologies to Ramos but thats clearly not going to happen.

The statement from the WTA is also laughable:

“There are matters that need to be looked into that took place during the match. For tonight, it is time to celebrate these two amazing players, both of whom have great integrity.

Naomi is a deserving champion and Serena at all times plays with class and makes us proud.”

What should be looked into is whether Serena should be fined for the utter disrespect she showed to the umpire. How the WTA can say Serena “makes us proud” after she behaved so poorly is deplorable.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Calder106 on Sun 9 Sep - 19:15

No name Bertie wrote:The umpire is well known for being a stickler for the rules and there are plenty of examples of male tennis players being defaulted the match, not just a game.  Serena Williams has also form - in 2009 in the semi-finals of the US Open, which she lost to Kim Clijsters, she threatened to kill an Asian American female line judge by stuffing tennis balls down her throat.

Andy Murray got a code violation from Carlos Ramos at the Rio Olympics for calling him a 'stupid umpire'. So he seems to be consistent with handing out these penalties whether female or male.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 9 Sep - 19:20

No name Bertie wrote:The umpire is well known for being a stickler for the rules and there are plenty of examples of male tennis players being defaulted the match, not just a game.  Serena Williams has also form - in 2009 in the semi-finals of the US Open, which she lost to Kim Clijsters, she threatened to kill an Asian American female line judge by stuffing tennis balls down her throat.

Yeah and also accused another (female) umpire of being a “hater” and “ugly inside” and told her not to even look at her when correctly penalised for hindrance in the final she lost to Stosur. Basically, at the US Open, she has behaved appallingiy in big matches when things go against her on several occasions.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 9 Sep - 19:26

I think what was even worse was how it affected Naomi Osaka. This was her moment. She had outperformed Serena in every department in the match and won her first slam ever. It was (or should have been) her moment. Instead Serena's antics lead to the fans booing during the post-match awards and it visibly up set the victor. Wrong in every way and that was all down to Serena.
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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 20:06

CaledonianCraig wrote:I think what was even worse was how it affected Naomi Osaka. This was her moment. She had outperformed Serena in every department in the match and won her first slam ever. It was (or should have been) her moment. Instead Serena's antics lead to the fans booing during the post-match awards and it visibly up set the victor. Wrong in every way and that was all down to Serena.
I haven't seen any reporters article assessing the possible medium to long term impact this might have on Osaka.   It was fairly intimidating and traumatising.  How will she feel in future playing to a US audience or in the US Open - with memories of the booing and the hostile and unpleasant atmosphere.  By the way Osaka has joint US - Japanese citizenship.  

I seem to recall a story that Marvin Haggler in winning the middleweight boxing title for the first time - winning the title from the British boxer Alan Minter - had to be escorted out of the arena to boos and a hail of beer bottles.  I think he mentioned that was a traumatising experience - I am not sure if he ever boxed in Britain again.   I also recall the disgraceful scenes at a Ryder Cup in the USA - when the crowd where somehow encouraged to show hostility to the Europeans - by the antics of some of the American players.

In the past sport used to be amateur, there used to be, at least amongst the British, the concept of stiff upper lip, being sporting to the opponent at all times, being a role model.  That has all gone - at least with some of the sportstars - who have become multi-millionaires out of frankly something that is little more than a pastime, a hobby, an unproductive whimsy.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 9 Sep - 20:33

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45463752

Now an article quoting Sue Barker supporting Serena. Absolutely ludicrous.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 20:52

The BBC are so incredibly predictable and desperate: they have to create more stories in support of Serena Williams (the BBC have invested so much in her as an icon of femininity, motherhood, minority representation, womans rights, BAME rights - they themselves are trying desperately to rationalise it):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45463752

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by GSC on Sun 9 Sep - 21:09

The umpire was probably overstretching a bit and Serenas behaviour was appalling. Real loser was the winner on the night, should've been her moment, now remembered for a tantrum.
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Re: US Open 2018

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 9 Sep - 21:34

The first code violation was perhaps a bit harsh as we do regularly see coaches appearing to coach without sanction. As her coach admitted he was trying to pass instruction Williams owes the umpire an apology. That first code violation was due to the actions of the coach and Williams behaviour after that was appalling (sadly completely in character) and treated completely correctly by the umpire.

Williams words during the presentation were the barest minimum she owed Osaka, who had completely outplayed her.

One of the reasons I have never managed to warm to Serena is her complete ungracious attitude in defeat. Beyond the high profile incidents already mentioned, she always seems to find excuses for defeat. Most recently blaming the thrashing from Konta on the release from prison of the person who killed he half sister.

Great player, but seems a deeply unpleasant person.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 21:54

The BBC have upgraded their "Serena Williams has a point" defence to their news homepage under their "full story" explanation series:


Note there is no criticism of Serena Williams in any of the headlines to these stories - just the allegations that the umpire is sexist, that Williams has a point etc.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 9 Sep - 22:02

I struggle to see the BBC reporting this any differently to any other media provider, even for people unwilling to read beyond the headline.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Sun 9 Sep - 23:18

The BBC is not "any other media provider" - it is the British State news media - paid for at point of imprisonment by British taxpayers and non-taxpayers alike.  It is a British public institution with guidelines and regulations.

Anyway I will stop here as this story is destroying the tennis.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 10 Sep - 0:39

Let's hope for a cracking men's final tonight so that everyone is talking about tennis rather than tantrums.
Delpo-Djoko could go either way. Is either really a firm favourite? Bet the bookies are being less than generous with their odds. Would be surprised if either won in straight sets and we could have an epic on our hands.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Born Slippy on Mon 10 Sep - 0:49

LondonTiger wrote:I struggle to see the BBC reporting this any differently to any other media provider, even for people unwilling to read beyond the headline.

I think that’s correct but even more worrying. The narrative from the media generally does seem to be that Serena was a victim here. Of course, that’s far from the truth and how the sexism allegation is being given any credence at all is astonishing. I was listening to the tennis podcast earlier and even the lady on there (who usually seems pretty sensible) said “I would never tell a woman who thinks she’s experiencing sexism that she’s not”. What nonsense - people make deluded allegations all the time and the media should tell it as it is. If it’s clear that there is no sexism, as is the case here, then those in the media should be making sure they say so.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by lags72 on Mon 10 Sep - 2:05

We all know that many, many players have had major disputes with umpires, and these are not unique to the current decade of course. There have been a good number of memorable vociferous and, at times, very unpleasant incidents, even stretching back to the 1970’s.

I do believe, however, that those involving Serena Williams are of a whole different nature, given her unwarranted and thoroughly distasteful accusations of sexism and highly personal attack on the umpire of the day, accompanied by thug-like threats. It’s a sorry track record which cannot be defended.

In common with others, I am more than happy to acknowledge her solid achievements in the sport. But for me, the legacy will forever be tainted by these crazed outbursts.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Mon 10 Sep - 2:49

The sad thing is Naomi Osaka is receiving an avalanche of hate mail for "cheating" Serena Williams out of another title.  The impression the media is giving is that Serena is the wronged party.  Worse is the abuse the umpire and his family are receiving from social media (including death threats).

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Atila on Mon 10 Sep - 3:00

Serena has been fined $17,000 for her actions in yesterdays match. The money will be withheld from her runners up cheque of $1.85 million. A pittance for her, not even a slap on the wrist, more like a gentle squeeze of her thumb.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by lags72 on Mon 10 Sep - 3:14

Yes, the token fine is so ridiculously small, in relation to her cheque from the tournament (let alone existing acquired wealth), as to be tantamount to saying we don’t think you did much wrong really Rolling Eyes

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by No name Bertie on Mon 10 Sep - 3:28

I assume the fines are sort of fixed with guidelines.  So if this had happened in the first round, she would have received the same amount of fine.   I assume the fine is independent of round and independent of person committing the offence.

If there was a separate fine such as bringing the game into disrepute then maybe it could be argued the fine should be larger.  The issue is the bringing the game into disrepute - which I don't think there is a fine for.  Separate to this - is that the media have amplified this into something that has gone sort of stratospheric. This has become a major global story filling the airwaves, making front page headlines, listened to, seen or read by several billion people.

It has become another issue that has polarised the population - with some claiming Serena Williams was the victim, and this is another example of institutional sexism and racism - while others are saying this is all about Serena Williams cheating her opponent and throwing her toys out of the pram.

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Re: US Open 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Mon 10 Sep - 7:16

Del Potro blew 40-0 in at 3/4 in the first set and it essentially gifted the opening set to Djokovic 6/3.

Roof closed in New York as it's pouring down, luck trying to gift Djokovic another undeserved title

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Re: US Open 2018

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