The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

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The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 10:16 am

South African media reports emerging around comments made at PRO14 launch by SA Rugby president Mark Alexander that South African players will be better off playing in the northern hemisphere.

Alexander hinted South African rugby could be heading north on a more permanent basis in the near future.

The Cheetahs and Kings joined the Pro14 last year and there is a strong possibility that two more local teams will be included in the competition next season.

‘It’s a long-term investment. We have options now and in future. At some point in time, in future, if we don’t want to stay in the south [in Super Rugby], we can move north,’ said Alexander.

He added that the involvement of local players and coaches in Europe is beneficial for South African rugby.

‘The Pro14 is a good competition for the players and coaches who’re playing against tier-one nations each weekend. When we become a full Pro14 member next season, we’ll be the only nation who plays in the north and the south, and the major benefit of playing in the northern hemisphere is the players are better off.

‘With the structure of the Pro14 competition the way it is, it’s easier for travelling, with distances between places less than in the south, and the time zones are also better. When you consider player welfare and what’s best for them, then the north is better.’

The rumors are that it will be the Griquas and Pumas who will be proposed by SARU next season as their two new teams.  How well that will be received by the other participating unions remains to be seen given the poor quality of the Kings thus far.    SARU plans to cut the number of professional players in their system from approx 900 to 400 odd using a draft system and to spread the talent across the 8 professional teams.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Sun 16 Sep 2018, 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Artful_Dodger on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 10:34 am

It's difficult, because the Griquas and Pumas may actually be stronger than the Kings. The Kings squad was decimated just before they joined.

Given Anayi's lust for growth I wouldn't be surprised to see it go ahead even if the Pumas and Griquas are a drop off in quality.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 1:47 pm

Yeah - agreed particularly if the two additional teams bring another increase in revenue. Albeit, Stormers and Sharks would be better added value.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 1:53 pm

If the SARU are going to use a draft system to build the teams and want players in the NH then you could end up with some strong teams. It'll all come down to the execution, the introduction of Cheetahs and Kings was rushed and the uncertainty before hand cost both quality players.

With the new investment in Kings hopefully they can begin to stabilise and build from there

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by BamBam on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 1:55 pm

How would cutting from 900 to 400 players using a draft system work in practice? Surely none of the Super Rugby players and the two Pro14 sides would be included in the 500 culled

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 2:01 pm

I'm guessing it would work something like the NFL expansion draft, the current 6 teams making a number of players available for the Pumas and Griquas to sign and maybe funds made available to get players playing abroad to come home

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Kingshu on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:31 pm

I always though Griquas and Pumas would be promoted to give SA 8 teams. However I also think that only one will move to PRO 16 and one will go to super Rugby with either Sharks or Stormers moving over to PRO 16.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 3:07 pm

Kingshu wrote:I always though Griquas and Pumas would be promoted to give SA 8 teams. However I also think that only one will move to PRO 16 and one will go to super Rugby with either Sharks or Stormers moving over to PRO 16.

Think that would be hard for them to do again with Super Rugby finishing just as Pro14/16 starts

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 3:08 pm

Been announced that ESPN will be showing every Pro14 game until 2021, that could be huge for the league

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 3:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:Been announced that ESPN will be showing every Pro14 game until 2021, that could be huge for the league

That’ll be from the RDA Sport distribution deal, I presume. Impressive - they moved fast since their appointment.

Now all we need is for the rugby to start and be worth watching... Smile.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 3:24 pm

ESPN Media Release here:

https://espnmediazone.com/us/media-kits/espn/

The Guinness PRO14 Rugby Championship one of the most exciting professional club rugby union competitions in the world featuring top professional teams from Ireland, Italy, Scotland, South Africa and Wales, will be available to fans across the U.S. beginning this week, exclusively on ESPN+ and the ESPN television networks as part of a multi-year agreement.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 4:07 pm

Like Trump with a pornstar, RDA seem to just dive in and get it over with quick

Following on from the news that ESPN will broadcast the Guinness PRO14 in the United States, PRO14 Rugby can reveal that DAZN, Rugby Pass and Sky New Zealand have joined the Championship’s broadcast family to bring the fast-flowing action to a further 30 countries.

As the Guinness PRO14 embarks on a new era with its host broadcasters in the UK, Ireland, Italy and South Africa, new record-setting agreements have been reached for worldwide coverage thanks to media rights specialists RDA.

DAZN, who have already agreed to the first multi-year deal for the Championship’s Italian rights, will also screen the Guinness PRO14 in Canada, Germany, Switzerland and Austria until 2021.

Sky New Zealand will be able to show some of the most exciting rugby from the Guinness PRO14 for the next three years where rugby fans will be able to see nearly 300 international stars in action while keeping up with the wide array of Kiwi players in the Championship.

Rugby Pass have won the rights for South East Asia (24 countries & territories) and Australia and continue their association with the Championship until 2021. Rugby Pass, who produced a behind the scenes feature on the 2018 Guinness PRO14 Final, provide on demand content and the latest rugby news and opinion across their digital platforms and will use the Championship as a key part of their coverage.
Read more at https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/08/31/new-international-broadcaster-partners-confirmed-for-guinness-pro14/#Ysy5dRa2HfVQWOs5.99

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 4:36 pm

Anyone know what these deals bring in money wise?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Kingshu on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 7:41 pm

More than the Aviva NBC one, I tjink some peopke here made out it was pretty decent.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 01 Sep 2018, 7:40 pm

Useful interview at the link below with Mark Alexander, SARU President on their thinking and plans.

He states very clearly their plan to have 4 teams in PRO14 and 4 in Super Rugby.  He nearly admits, but not quite that it will be Griquas and Pumas.  Central to this decision is their new reduction and draft plan to reduce number of professional players and to move players who are sitting third/fourth in current SR squads into the other franchises - Cheetahs, Kings, and Griquas and Pumas.  He states they will become full members of PRO14 in 2019/20 season.  It’s not absolutely clear that this means being new shareholders in Celtic Rugby DADC which currently are the Irish, Welsh and Scottish unions who own the PRO14 comp.

Interestingly, he also says that if things eventually don’t work out in Super Rugby (possibly after next version that starts in 2020), then they will be able to move all their teams north.   He doesn’t say if this would be to the PRO14/16 but he seemed to be confident enough about it, and no other options are on the table currently.  

https://rugby365.com/tournaments/pro14/news-pro14/video-saru-boss-unpacks-trek-to-europe
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Brendan on Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:02 am

So 1 week in and everyone has league points except the two SA teams.  Some nice matches and close to the end.

On two more SA teams is only positives.  Four SA teams means they will rejig the Euro tournaments to include them.

If they are poor
1. You get a good run out for your reserves to see who is ready.
2. Teams Like the Dragons get to feel good about themselves
3. Forces SA to address the problem of having 4 poor teams (think the cheetahs might be poorer at home and same away) as it is bad for their image
4. The fans of the new teams are just happy to be there.
5. More money.  Let's be honest every team would take the extra money v not playing the kings.

If they are good
1. Helps bulk the mid table
2. New teams
3. Helps fix the format into two self contained conferences

I am fairly sure the Kings investment is due to being in the Pro14. In Super Rugby it was falling apart.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:11 am

The only positive is money. If they bring in cash, like Cheetahs and Kings have, then that's great. But they offer hardly anything else. An extra home game I suppose is great. But seriously - no fans, huge away trips for European based squads and supporters, weekly drubbings as they are splititng their squads with Currie Cup.

It's just selling the soul of the competition. Where do you draw the line?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by VinceWLB on Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:12 am

They will need to up their games if they want to bring in Griquas and Pumas.

Kings looks slightly improved (still max 4-5 wins for them) but Cheetahs looks seriously weakened and have basically been stripped off their best players, they will be lucky to get more than 8 wins this season.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:25 am

VinceWLB wrote:They will need to up their games if they want to bring in Griquas and Pumas.

Kings looks slightly improved (still max 4-5 wins for them) but Cheetahs looks seriously weakened and have basically been stripped off their best players, they will be lucky to get more than 8 wins this season.

Cheetahs have played one game, the only games they won outside of SA last season were against Zebre and Dragons so a bit early to write them off just yet when their strength was at home last season

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by VinceWLB on Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:38 am

marty2086 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:They will need to up their games if they want to bring in Griquas and Pumas.

Kings looks slightly improved (still max 4-5 wins for them) but Cheetahs looks seriously weakened and have basically been stripped off their best players, they will be lucky to get more than 8 wins this season.

Cheetahs have played one game, the only games they won outside of SA last season were against Zebre and Dragons so a bit early to write them off just yet when their strength was at home last season

But look at their players, new flyhalf looked very poor, new locks average at best and wingers uninspiring, on top of that their go-to man Mohoje seems to have picked up a serious injury..

Could be a long season for them. There is hope though that they have kept some of their better player at home to play Currie Cup (which lets face it isn't great for the Pro 14..).

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:44 am

Again I go to, it's one game, the team having an off day doesn't mean they won't click next week or feel more comfortable once they get back home


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Brendan on Mon 03 Sep 2018, 12:53 pm

marty2086 wrote:Again I go to, it's one game, the team having an off day doesn't mean they won't click next week or feel more comfortable once they get back home


I am basing it on going to SA is less of an adventure and better teams will work out how to beat them in SA. Their coach stated they used the opening two rounds of the Currie Cup as warm up matches for the Pro14.

Kings have and new owners who have reinstated the academy so they will be fine in just a couple of years. Zebre and Treviso did fine once they sorted out their pipeline. Connacht have done better once they got a pipeline not loads of 1 year contacts for free agents. Kings wouldn't be getting new owners if they weren't expecting to benefit from the Pro14

As long as the pipeline is in place they will all be fine.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 08 Sep 2018, 10:29 pm

So after two rounds, only five teams have won both their games. The biggest surprise is Benetton at the top of a Conference B. Their last gasp, but deserved, win against Cardiff put them there.

Cardiff , Cheetahs and Edinburgh are surprisingly propping up their conference in the company of the Kings.

Next round should start to give some indications as more internationals feed back into playing squads.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Brendan on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 9:21 am

It seems in the opening rounds teams are playing similar teams of their level based on last year's results.  There are a few expections but means all the games have been competitive (expect a few exceptions)

This coming week is a big one for Edinburgh.  Home against Connacht who seem to have started well (should have seen out the Glasgow game).  Edinburgh are two near losses away from home but still two defeats.  If they lose the third would doubt set in and see them go back to the team who lost close games.

Blues are in a similar boat but should have two much for Zebre but if they lose will we start to see the old blues of a few seasons ago come back.  They need a win or could be looking at bottom two in the conference based on Ospreys and Connachts starts.

Treviso have done well but should lose away to Scarlets.  If they win though we will all take notice of their continued improvement.  If they get a LBP I think that would confirm continued improvement.

But again it's only round 3 coming up so things could be different come November

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by VinceWLB on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 9:42 am

Brendan wrote:It seems in the opening rounds teams are playing similar teams of their level based on last year's results.  There are a few expections but means all the games have been competitive (expect a few exceptions)

This coming week is a big one for Edinburgh.  Home against Connacht who seem to have started well (should have seen out the Glasgow game).  Edinburgh are two near losses away from home but still two defeats.  If they lose the third would doubt set in and see them go back to the team who lost close games.

Blues are in a similar boat but should have two much for Zebre but if they lose will we start to see the old blues of a few seasons ago come back.  They need a win or could be looking at bottom two in the conference based on Ospreys and Connachts starts.

Treviso have done well but should lose away to Scarlets.  If they win though we will all take notice of their continued improvement.  If they get a LBP I think that would confirm continued improvement.

But again it's only round 3 coming up so things could be different come November

The Cheetahs have not been competitive and this confirmed my thoughts that they are going to be a lot worse this year..

I still have some hope they have kept a flyhalf (Fouche), a centre (Kruger) and a back row (Jordaan) for Currie Cup that would improve things a bit for them, still it has been a very underwhelming start for them.

Kings have looked good and played a great brand of rugby, probably still short of a world class flyhalf to do some real damage.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 9:50 am

Don't see how people are saying Cheetahs are weaker than last year when the only game they won outside SA was at Zebre, they also got stronger as the season went on so losing two early games outside SA is hardly a great indicator of where they are at

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by VinceWLB on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 9:58 am

marty2086 wrote:Don't see how people are saying Cheetahs are weaker than last year when the only game they won outside SA was at Zebre, they also got stronger as the season went on so losing two early games outside SA is hardly a great indicator of where they are at

Completely different from last year where they were still on a high after a great start in the Currie Cup and had to adapt to the somewhat different rules at the breakdown.

They have lost so many first choice players. Going to be a long season for them.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 10:22 am

VinceWLB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Don't see how people are saying Cheetahs are weaker than last year when the only game they won outside SA was at Zebre, they also got stronger as the season went on so losing two early games outside SA is hardly a great indicator of where they are at

Completely different from last year where they were still on a high after a great start in the Currie Cup and had to adapt to the somewhat different rules at the breakdown.

They have lost so many first choice players. Going to be a long season for them.

All Im saying is that it's too early to right them off, you could be right but two games in with similar outcomes to last season isn't exactly a sign they will struggle. Aren't some players away to Japan to return and are they missing their first choice 10?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Brendan on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 10:28 am

Munster beat them by 30pts last year while Ospreys won by a point.

I don't think they will do great but as I said if they sort their pipeline to keep he young players they will have plenty of good players.

Hopefully the draft helps aswell.

I can see them fighting it out with Zebre for 6th spot this year. But I do expect them to go back up like Treviso have done once they got over the season no one knew what was happening.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 10:28 am

marty2086 wrote:

All Im saying is that it's too early to right them off

"write-off" not "right off".

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 10:38 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

All Im saying is that it's too early to right them off

"write-off" not "right off".

Laugh

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 10:40 am

Brendan wrote:Munster beat them by 30pts last year while Ospreys won by a point.  

I don't think they will do great but as I said if they sort their pipeline to keep he young players they will have plenty of good players.

Hopefully the draft helps aswell.

I can see them fighting it out with Zebre for 6th spot this year.  But I do expect them to go back up like Treviso have done once they got over the season no one knew what was happening.

Ospreys was towards the end of the season though was it not?

I think the next few weeks will be more telling as to where they are at, if they can come away with 5 or 6 points from the next two games they may be ok but if not they will be in trouble

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by VinceWLB on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 10:41 am

marty2086 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Don't see how people are saying Cheetahs are weaker than last year when the only game they won outside SA was at Zebre, they also got stronger as the season went on so losing two early games outside SA is hardly a great indicator of where they are at

Completely different from last year where they were still on a high after a great start in the Currie Cup and had to adapt to the somewhat different rules at the breakdown.

They have lost so many first choice players. Going to be a long season for them.

All Im saying is that it's too early to right them off, you could be right but two games in with similar outcomes to last season isn't exactly a sign they will struggle. Aren't some players away to Japan to return and are they missing their first choice 10?

I don't believe the players who went to Japan will come back, i think the season end in February there. Yes, i think Fouche is going to be their 1st choice 10.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 10:57 am

I think I read 2 or 3 will be back later in the season like they had last year, which may help explain why they were stronger later in the year.


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 16 Sep 2018, 12:21 pm

From today’s Guardian newspaper:

Private equity firms have been talking to the Guinness Pro14 board about investing in the tournament as part of their strategy to exploit untapped broadcasting income in sport – but the board are not prepared to give up control of the game.

Premiership Rugby last week rejected a takeover bid by the equity firm CVC, believing its £500m offer undervalued the league and not willing to concede control. Talks had been going on for a year, but the Pro14, the shareholders of which are all unions, was first approached 12 months before.

The Pro14 suspended the talks last year as it negotiated a television agreement with Premier Sports, but when CVC’s interest in the Premiership became public, it rekindled the interest of some of the unions. Wales, Scotland and South Africa are open to the idea of outside investment, while not being prepared to concede control. Ireland still have to be convinced.

“What the companies are looking for is not control of the tournament, but of its commercial rights,” said a Pro14 source. “They believe that rugby is only touching the surface when it comes to realising its broadcasting potential. They understand the consumer content market far better than rugby bodies, even Premiership Rugby, and have links with the likes of Amazon and Facebook.

“The fact that there is such an interest in rugby can only be good for the sport. What is also heartening is that the companies we have spoken to see their involvement beyond the short term. They are talking about being involved for between eight and 12 years and anticipate being able to make a decent return in that time.”

While the Pro14 is owned by unions, an attraction for private investment is that it is made up of teams from half the 10 tier-one countries in world rugby and could potentially open doors to the international arena.

“What we have in the longer term is the opportunity to bring the club and international games closer together,” said the source. “Test rugby has pretty much reached its maximum in terms of the number of games played and the question is what purpose friendly Tests in the autumn and summer serve beyond raising money.

“At the moment, unions use Test matches as a way of feeding the grassroots, but what the interest shown by private equity firms in the club game demonstrates is that it could become a means of sustaining the levels below, and reducing the strain on the international game.”

CVC is considering whether to make a modified bid to the Premiership, which has also been speaking to other potential investors. A sticking point is the issue of control, with World Rugby regulations prohibiting anyone owning – directly or indirectly – more than one club. The issue has been raised at meetings with the Rugby Football Union, with owners feeling the regulation breaches European competition law, but with Britain leaving the EU in March, there is not much time for a legal challenge.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by VinceWLB on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 9:41 am

Just noticed Cheetahs have nearly 60 players contracted to be able to play Pro 14 and Currie Cup at the same time, this is simply unsustainable as they should rather have a squad of around 40 with better quality..

I'm very disappointed by the SARU attitude as i'm certain i read last year they were going to do something so that Currie Cup does not interfere with the Pro 14.
At worst (and really this is not a great solution) Cheetahs should be downgraded to the Currie Cup 2nd tier, what they call Currie Cup 1st division. They are simply not competitive in the first tier.

It's hard to see where the first win from a SA team is going to come from..

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 11:30 am

VinceWLB wrote:Just noticed Cheetahs have nearly 60 players contracted to be able to play Pro 14 and Currie Cup at the same time, this is simply unsustainable as they should rather have a squad of around 40 with better quality..

 

40? How is that going to work? They need more players not less.

2 Cheetahs teams playing on the same day next Friday. Each with squads of 23 plus 2 or 3 travelling reserves?

Unless you mean 40 for both the Cheetahs p14 side AND currie cup side.

These are the worries we had when the SA sides came on board but were told it will all be ok.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 11:32 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Just noticed Cheetahs have nearly 60 players contracted to be able to play Pro 14 and Currie Cup at the same time, this is simply unsustainable as they should rather have a squad of around 40 with better quality..

 

40? How is that going to work? They need more players not less.

2 Cheetahs teams playing on the same day next Friday. Each with squads of 23 plus 2 or 3 travelling reserves?

Unless you mean 40 for both the Cheetahs p14 side AND currie cup side.

These are the worries we had when the SA sides came on board but were told it will all be ok.

40 works when the Currie Cup is scheduled to work around the Pro14 not at the same time as it as Vince clearly states. Having to pay 60 players isn't sustainable, 40 is


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 11:35 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Just noticed Cheetahs have nearly 60 players contracted to be able to play Pro 14 and Currie Cup at the same time, this is simply unsustainable as they should rather have a squad of around 40 with better quality..

 

40? How is that going to work? They need more players not less.

2 Cheetahs teams playing on the same day next Friday. Each with squads of 23 plus 2 or 3 travelling reserves?

Unless you mean 40 for both the Cheetahs p14 side AND currie cup side.

These are the worries we had when the SA sides came on board but were told it will all be ok.

40 works when the Currie Cup is scheduled to work around the Pro14 not at the same time as it as Vince clearly states. Having to pay 60 players isn't sustainable, 40 is


But the Currie Cup IS scheduled around the p14 on some weekends. That's the point. There will be schedule clashes. So a squad of 40 is impractical.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 11:39 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Just noticed Cheetahs have nearly 60 players contracted to be able to play Pro 14 and Currie Cup at the same time, this is simply unsustainable as they should rather have a squad of around 40 with better quality..

 

40? How is that going to work? They need more players not less.

2 Cheetahs teams playing on the same day next Friday. Each with squads of 23 plus 2 or 3 travelling reserves?

Unless you mean 40 for both the Cheetahs p14 side AND currie cup side.

These are the worries we had when the SA sides came on board but were told it will all be ok.

40 works when the Currie Cup is scheduled to work around the Pro14 not at the same time as it as Vince clearly states. Having to pay 60 players isn't sustainable, 40 is


But the Currie Cup IS scheduled around the p14 on some weekends. That's the point. There will be schedule clashes. So a squad of 40 is impractical.

Except it's not if they change the schedule like the SARU are meant to be doing which is the whole point Vince made

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 11:59 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Just noticed Cheetahs have nearly 60 players contracted to be able to play Pro 14 and Currie Cup at the same time, this is simply unsustainable as they should rather have a squad of around 40 with better quality..

 

40? How is that going to work? They need more players not less.

2 Cheetahs teams playing on the same day next Friday. Each with squads of 23 plus 2 or 3 travelling reserves?

Unless you mean 40 for both the Cheetahs p14 side AND currie cup side.

These are the worries we had when the SA sides came on board but were told it will all be ok.

40 works when the Currie Cup is scheduled to work around the Pro14 not at the same time as it as Vince clearly states. Having to pay 60 players isn't sustainable, 40 is


But the Currie Cup IS scheduled around the p14 on some weekends. That's the point. There will be schedule clashes. So a squad of 40 is impractical.

Except it's not if they change the schedule like the SARU are meant to be doing which is the whole point Vince made

But they're not changing it are they. So that's why they haven't got 40 players.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 12:30 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Just noticed Cheetahs have nearly 60 players contracted to be able to play Pro 14 and Currie Cup at the same time, this is simply unsustainable as they should rather have a squad of around 40 with better quality..

 

40? How is that going to work? They need more players not less.

2 Cheetahs teams playing on the same day next Friday. Each with squads of 23 plus 2 or 3 travelling reserves?

Unless you mean 40 for both the Cheetahs p14 side AND currie cup side.

These are the worries we had when the SA sides came on board but were told it will all be ok.

40 works when the Currie Cup is scheduled to work around the Pro14 not at the same time as it as Vince clearly states. Having to pay 60 players isn't sustainable, 40 is


But the Currie Cup IS scheduled around the p14 on some weekends. That's the point. There will be schedule clashes. So a squad of 40 is impractical.

Except it's not if they change the schedule like the SARU are meant to be doing which is the whole point Vince made

But they're not changing it are they. So that's why they haven't got 40 players.

Hence the point, if they change it like they are meant to Cheetahs can have a 40 man squad Rolling Eyes


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by VinceWLB on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 9:49 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
 
40? How is that going to work? They need more players not less.

2 Cheetahs teams playing on the same day next Friday. Each with squads of 23 plus 2 or 3 travelling reserves?

Unless you mean 40 for both the Cheetahs p14 side AND currie cup side.

These are the worries we had when the SA sides came on board but were told it will all be ok.

The only alternative to changing the dates of Currie Cup is to demote the Cheetahs to the 2nd tier Currie Cup with mostly semi-pro or squad member of the Pro 14 team. This is what the Kings are doing with the EP Elephants, and they are still losing week in week out at this level..

I mean, can you imagine being a Cheetahs fan and watch both team lose by 30+ points next friday?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Brendan on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 9:29 am

With the draft system to be introduced the SARU is looking to reduce the number of professional players so that they can better fund the better players.  With the introduction of two new teams they then have 8 teams for the top tier.  They can then play the Currie Cup as warm ups for the Pro14 and Super Rugby.  They also have the euro game weeks usually in the middle of October.

So could play Currie Cup (7 games) something like August - October.  The missing weeks can be made up during the 6 Nations and games between Pro16 teams act as double games

The Irish and Welsh also had two teams playing this weekend too.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by rodders on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 10:48 am

Very impressed with the standard of the pro14 so far, Edinburgh in particular look very strong, this season could be the most competitive yet.

I think a number of the sides could do pretty well in Europe - Leinster, Edinburgh, Scarlets, Glasgow and Munster in particular all should be targeting the knockout stages.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by Brendan on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 11:54 am

My take is as follows
Leinster, Munster, Scarlets & Glasgow look like they are fighting it out for top two in their Conference and should be aiming for top two in the Euro group.

Connacht, Ulster, Ospreys, Blues, Edinburgh & Beniton are all pushing for 3rd in the Conference and 4th place playoff. Those in the Champs Cup should be looking to avoid last in their group while those in the Challenge should be looking for top two.

Dragons, Zebre, Cheetahs and Kings should be hard to beat at home against the mid table teams and try away from home. Would love to see Zebre & Dragons get a few wins in Europe and be pushing the team in second place.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by munkian on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 11:58 am

There isn't going to be any real level of competition within the league until min and maximum salary caps are brought in.

The disparity in budgets between the top and bottom teams of the pro14 is akin to prem league football.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by marty2086 on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 12:04 pm

munkian wrote:There isn't going to be any real level of competition within the league until min and maximum salary caps are brought in.

The disparity in budgets between the top and bottom teams of the pro14 is akin to prem league football.

There's a salary cap in the AP but still a gulf between the top and bottom so the salary cap is just an excuse. The Welsh regions have or at least had a salary cap for their squads sure and Dragons were a country mile behind the other three

Budgets and salary caps are also separate things not to mention Connacht went and won the league with a budget a lot smaller than most in the league

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by munkian on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 12:58 pm

Connacht won the league after a significant boost in budget from the IRFU ?
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 1:17 pm

That's if you trust teams to stick the budget as well. Another question is if there was a cap you'd again face a potential exodus to other leagues.


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

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