The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

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Post by Pot Hale on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:16 am

First topic message reminder :

South African media reports emerging around comments made at PRO14 launch by SA Rugby president Mark Alexander that South African players will be better off playing in the northern hemisphere.

Alexander hinted South African rugby could be heading north on a more permanent basis in the near future.

The Cheetahs and Kings joined the Pro14 last year and there is a strong possibility that two more local teams will be included in the competition next season.

‘It’s a long-term investment. We have options now and in future. At some point in time, in future, if we don’t want to stay in the south [in Super Rugby], we can move north,’ said Alexander.

He added that the involvement of local players and coaches in Europe is beneficial for South African rugby.

‘The Pro14 is a good competition for the players and coaches who’re playing against tier-one nations each weekend. When we become a full Pro14 member next season, we’ll be the only nation who plays in the north and the south, and the major benefit of playing in the northern hemisphere is the players are better off.

‘With the structure of the Pro14 competition the way it is, it’s easier for travelling, with distances between places less than in the south, and the time zones are also better. When you consider player welfare and what’s best for them, then the north is better.’

The rumors are that it will be the Griquas and Pumas who will be proposed by SARU next season as their two new teams.  How well that will be received by the other participating unions remains to be seen given the poor quality of the Kings thus far.    SARU plans to cut the number of professional players in their system from approx 900 to 400 odd using a draft system and to spread the talent across the 8 professional teams.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:22 pm

I don't understand why I've been called out or indeed how though?
Yeah I noticed some people have called him such names. Shocking behaviour.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:55 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Very Happy You've been called out on nonsense No 7&1/2. But I'm not surprised you don't have the good grace to admit it. You don't seem the type.

Also, it seems to me like LD has been called a moron and a cretin in 24 hours, yet other posters are banned for just debating.

Some place this.

This guy you mean?

I'm out, you and No 7&1/2 are a pair of sociopaths. You are ruining this forum. No decent debate can take place with you two around

This guy?

Surprise surprise, a red bar for how I think the regions should be, why can't you man up and say why you don't like it ?

Isn't this him too?

his is just another instance where you have been embarresed, and now you are trying to wriggle out of it, by asking me to do the leg work.

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:10 am

So anyway, back to the fifth team in Ireland. Rugbyfan1000 might be right - just keep it one team.

Leinster North Riding and Leinster South Riding with the Grand Canal as the border line between the two.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:44 am

Pot Hale wrote:So anyway, back to the fifth team in Ireland.   Rugbyfan1000 might be right - just keep it one team.

Leinster North Riding and Leinster South Riding with the Grand Canal as the border line between the two.


Are they all under the Leinster union though? Where would the boys in the North play since Donnybrook, Aviva and RDS are in the South...Croke? Is it just the mens team who are split? What about schools?

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Post by the-goon on Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:44 am

Why not make a 5th development style province? Could be a midlands based team.

We are starting to produce more players than the 4 sides can fully develop. A great problem to have.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:18 am

the-goon wrote:Why not make a 5th development style province? Could be a midlands based team.

.

And play them in the Pro14? A development side?

Sums up the mentality of many pro14 fans really. Not fussed on the quality of the product. Just want to use it as a stepping stone to further your own Union setup.

Completely ass5 backwards

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Post by marty2086 on Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:21 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
the-goon wrote:Why not make a 5th development style province? Could be a midlands based team.

.

And play them in the Pro14? A development side?

Sums up the mentality of many pro14 fans really. Not fussed on the quality of the product. Just want to use it as a stepping stone to further your own Union setup.

Completely ass5 backwards

One person said it and you say many? picard

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Post by profitius on Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:25 pm

the-goon wrote:Why not make a 5th development style province? Could be a midlands based team.

We are starting to produce more players than the 4 sides can fully develop. A great problem to have.


Connacht, Ulster and Munster have plenty of scope for improvement. The club game should be strengthened first to bridge the gap between amateur and professional rugby.
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Post by Pot Hale on Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:38 pm

I think we should base them in Munster - they’re all heading that way anyway....
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Post by Pot Hale on Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:59 pm

Well that was an interesting Round 14 of results.

Two home wins for the Kings and Cheetahs
A lucky escape for Munster and Cardiff with one point wins over Dragons and Connacht.
An old style kicking win for Glasgow 9-3 over Ospreys
An unlucky draw for Benetton still moved them into second spot in Conf B and Leinster put another notch on the belt with their kids in a well-contested game against Scarlets.

Leinster well out in front for a home semi-final
Munster and Glasgow duking it out for the other home semi

And then a clutch of teams very close together with 4 going for the 3rd spot in Conf A and a quarterfinal and the same in conference B with 4 teams going for 2nd and 3rd spot.

7 rounds to go.

A - Munster 10 -48
A - Glasgow  9 -46

A - Ospreys.  8 -38
A - Connacht 7 -38
A - Cardiff B.  7 -36
A - Cheetahs 5 - 31 - (game in hand v Kings next week)

B - Leinster 12 -58

B - Benetton  7 -37
B - Edinburgh 7 -36
B - Scarlets 7 - 35
B - Ulster 7 - 35

Some key games coming up in next two rounds that might create some spaces between the chasing packs:

R15 - 15 Feb

Ospreys v Ulster
Connacht v Cheetahs
Benetton v Scarlets
Cardiff v Glasgow

R16 22 Feb

Glasgow v Connacht
Ospreys v Munster
Edinburgh v Cardiff
Scarlets v Cheetahs
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Post by SecretFly on Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:33 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
the-goon wrote:Why not make a 5th development style province? Could be a midlands based team.

.

And play them in the Pro14? A development side?

Sums up the mentality of many pro14 fans really. Not fussed on the quality of the product. Just want to use it as a stepping stone to further your own Union setup.

Completely ass5 backwards

If the development side started beating half the Pro14 lineup maybe two or three years into existence, what would your problem be? A development side allowed to win when they could? What exactly would be the conscientious objection to that? I know, let's call the development team a 'real' team just to get us all past the affected protests?

Would that do?

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Post by The Oracle on Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:03 pm

the-goon wrote:Why not make a 5th development style province? Could be a midlands based team.

We are starting to produce more players than the 4 sides can fully develop. A great problem to have.

Ah yes, Birmingham Beavers! Would help to tap into the English market.

Or the Black Country Badgers!

Wasps could F-off back to London where they belong and the ‘one true reejun’ of the Midlands could play a nice role in the Pro14 and the quest for the all important chimney pots. Plus, it would appease some of the ‘Welsh Worriers’ (TM) (a genius concept for a future welsh region, perhaps) who yearn for games against English opposition. Win win, as they say. I can’t see any down sides Smile
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Post by Brendan on Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:22 am

So do the weekends fixtures show that the big boys resting players against the little guys isn't easy and end up costing teams points.  As pointed out Edinburgh resting players has resulted in them losing to the three worse sides.

Also people seem to be doing down the SA sides. Cheetahs if they beat the Kings are in the fight for 3rd spot.  Kings have 2 wins v 1 last year and have got 5 LPs out of 13, so compeditive in over 50%.  5 TBPs show they score lots and could easily of had more.  Last year they had 1 win 3 LBPs and 4 TBPs.

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Post by Stone Motif on Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:20 pm

Brendan wrote:So do the weekends fixtures show that the big boys resting players against the little guys isn't easy and end up costing teams points.  As pointed out Edinburgh resting players has resulted in them losing to the three worse sides.

Also people seem to be doing down the SA sides. Cheetahs if they beat the Kings are in the fight for 3rd spot.  Kings have 2 wins v 1 last year and have got 5 LPs out of 13, so compeditive in over 50%.  5 TBPs show they score lots and could easily of had more.  Last year they had 1 win 3 LBPs and 4 TBPs.

How many did Leinster's academy score against the WRU Dragons again?
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Post by marty2086 on Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:31 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Brendan wrote:So do the weekends fixtures show that the big boys resting players against the little guys isn't easy and end up costing teams points.  As pointed out Edinburgh resting players has resulted in them losing to the three worse sides.

Also people seem to be doing down the SA sides. Cheetahs if they beat the Kings are in the fight for 3rd spot.  Kings have 2 wins v 1 last year and have got 5 LPs out of 13, so compeditive in over 50%.  5 TBPs show they score lots and could easily of had more.  Last year they had 1 win 3 LBPs and 4 TBPs.

How many did Leinster's academy score against the WRU Dragons again?

Says something about Leinsters academy that there are so many of the current crop that are internationals

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Post by Brendan on Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:51 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Brendan wrote:So do the weekends fixtures show that the big boys resting players against the little guys isn't easy and end up costing teams points.  As pointed out Edinburgh resting players has resulted in them losing to the three worse sides.

Also people seem to be doing down the SA sides. Cheetahs if they beat the Kings are in the fight for 3rd spot.  Kings have 2 wins v 1 last year and have got 5 LPs out of 13, so compeditive in over 50%.  5 TBPs show they score lots and could easily of had more.  Last year they had 1 win 3 LBPs and 4 TBPs.

How many did Leinster's academy score against the WRU Dragons again?

It was alot and cost the Coach his job. Dragons have improved since which shows it wasn't down to Leinster alone. Also seems that in Europe their second string players seem to be able to score lots too against better opposition

The league is 14 teams not 1 team and it is a worry for the rest that Leinster are so far ahead, but it will make everyone else improve.

We Currently have 3 teams who need to improve (though compeditive in 50% of their games) and one team that needs to be caught (only failed to get points from one match).  The other 10 (not 8 my bad) teams are beating each other all over the place and it's not a shock when they do.


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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:31 pm

Pro14.

3+1+8=12

?


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Post by Brendan on Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:Pro14.

3+1+8=12

?


Can you tell I was at work frying my brain, I'll fix it. Was trying to think of something witty like the Welsh only have two teams or Scottish Rugby is imaginary but it doesn't work

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Post by The Oracle on Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:59 pm

Quick maffs!
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Post by marty2086 on Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:42 am

Premier Sports have gained the UK rights to Serie A, Eredivise and Chinese Super League from this weekend. Hopefully that'll help boost the Pro14 too

Anyone who hasn't subscribed use the code SERIEA and you get first month free and Premier at £5.99 until August

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:54 am

Bargain.

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Post by marty2086 on Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:59 am

I'm sure it'll put some Welsh butts in seats

RiscaGame wrote:Bargain.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:24 pm

marty2086 wrote:Premier Sports have gained the UK rights to Serie A, Eredivise and Chinese Super League from this weekend. Hopefully that'll help boost the Pro14 too

Anyone who hasn't subscribed use the code SERIEA and you get first month free and Premier at £5.99 until August


Chinese Super league?

The ad breaks should be fun.

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Post by Brendan on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 pm

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/charl-crous-to-leave-kings-for-top-pro14-job-20190208

New role for the Pro14
He was the man who got big sponsorship and an equity partner for the Kings so you would assume he is brought on to get private investors

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:15 pm

Brendan wrote:https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/charl-crous-to-leave-kings-for-top-pro14-job-20190208

New role for the Pro14
He was the man who got big sponsorship and an equity partner for the Kings so you would assume he is brought on to get private investors


Interesting - clearly looking to include people from all the participating nations. Anayi - English/Welsh?, Gerald Davies, Welsh, David Jordan, Scottish, Amy Monaghan, Irish, Charm Crous, SA. Any Italians in there?
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:14 pm

Brendan wrote:https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/charl-crous-to-leave-kings-for-top-pro14-job-20190208

New role for the Pro14
He was the man who got big sponsorship and an equity partner for the Kings so you would assume he is brought on to get private investors
He must be a miracle worker, getting the Kings into the Pro 14 and securing a name sponsor for the team; when you see how much of a shambles they are playing wise with basically no fan base.

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Post by Brendan on Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:09 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Brendan wrote:https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/charl-crous-to-leave-kings-for-top-pro14-job-20190208

New role for the Pro14
He was the man who got big sponsorship and an equity partner for the Kings so you would assume he is brought on to get private investors
He must be a miracle worker, getting the Kings into the Pro 14 and securing a name sponsor for the team; when you see how much of a shambles they are playing wise with basically no fan base.

Seems like he will be perfect for the League as that is how some may describe the League in general

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:28 pm

Brendan wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Brendan wrote:https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/charl-crous-to-leave-kings-for-top-pro14-job-20190208

New role for the Pro14
He was the man who got big sponsorship and an equity partner for the Kings so you would assume he is brought on to get private investors
He must be a miracle worker, getting the Kings into the Pro 14 and securing a name sponsor for the team; when you see how much of a shambles they are playing wise with basically no fan base.

Seems like he will be perfect for the League as that is how some may describe the League in general
Yeah usually people that either don't watch the league or don't have a clue about rugby... oh and also some of the welsh.

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:04 pm

Anayi recruiting more people - this time from the RFU for Marketing

PRO14 Rugby recruits Tom Lister as Marketing Director from the Rugby Football Union

From PRO14 website:

Tom Lister started his new role as Marketing Director for PRO14 Rugby this week with a focus on growing the brand of the Guinness PRO14 and strengthening the tournament’s fanbase via digital channels and enhancing its CRM strategy.

Lister joins PRO14 Rugby from the Rugby Football Union where he spent four years, most recently as Head of Customer Strategy and CRM and Head of Marketing for England Rugby Hospitality.

During his time with the RFU, Tom was part of a widespread team at the RFU that delivered profitable returns for the union each year, driving record digital growth and consistently selling out Twickenham for England internationals.

Prior to his work at the RFU Lister, a graduate of the University of Birmingham with First Class honours in BSc Money, Banking & Finance, spent time in Australia as General Manager of Membership and Fan Development at the Western Bulldogs in the AFL between 2011 and 2014.

Lister oversaw significant growth of the Bulldogs’ membership base and helped to deliver greater fan engagement, customer experience, sponsorship activation and game-day promotion.

Speaking about Lister’s arrival, Martin Anayi, CEO of PRO14 Rugby, said: “Firstly, we’re really pleased to have recruited someone of Tom’s expertise at time when the tournament is in such good health. The success of the past three years can be measured on and off the field in terms of results, sponsorship and our new broadcast deals, but it is vital that we use this period to ensure that our Championship continues to thrive.

“Tom will add a new dimension to our digital strategy and help us to deliver more of what our fans demand and expect from one the most exciting club rugby tournaments in the world. He worked with the RFU during a time of unprecedented growth and success while his experience at the Western Bulldogs will provide a fresh perspective to us.

“We have a number of exciting digital products in the pipeline that will not only deliver new experiences and full immersion of the Guinness PRO14 to our fans, but will entice new sports fans to see why our Championship is becoming so appealing. I wish Tom the very best of luck as he plays an important role in the next stage of our growth.”

Lister, an avid sports fan himself said he was delighted to have emerged from a challenging recruitment process to join PRO14 Rugby as Marketing Director: “I am thrilled to be joining PRO14 Rugby at such an exciting time for the tournament. We have a huge responsibility to the Championship’s fans and its teams and I look forward to helping drive our strategy to become a truly world-class organisation.”
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Post by Brendan on Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:54 pm

Seems like the Pro 14 are really getting their act together in making the Pro14 a stand alone league that just happens to be owned by the Unions rather than a league to fill a gap.

From the Article on Crous t say "his new role in the PRO14 including: major tournament compliance regulations; commercial contracting, match-day operations; long-distance travel and logistics operations; rights management; stakeholder management; and implementation of club administration programmes.  

Speaking about the recruitment of Crous, PRO14 Rugby CEO Martin Anayi, said: "It is vital that we match the growth of the Guinness PRO14 on the field by recruiting key personnel to sustain the success as the Championship goes from strength to strength."

Seems like Crous was brought in to sort out the internal structure of the teams so that they are more professional and have a plan for bringing in more investment. Lister seems to have been brought in to sell the teams to the public.

It's good to see the league looking to build up the teams and give support to them. I think the league has learned from the Italian Clubs that building a strong structures in the Clubs help strenghten the league.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:17 am

I'm not so sure about all this bigger and better lingo. Needs a close eye kept on these operators as they'll have 'lobbyists' knocking on their door whistling about incentives to champion their overview on where Pro14 AND the participating teams go. Caution caution as the ship moves ahead.

Let's not forget (and let's face it, how could we in this forum) that the participating teams use various different systems to bring their sides and their squads to the market. If outside people are brought in to do a job then they'll have 'conformity' on their wish list. So again, I see this as another potential stab at 'Nationalising' all competing sides under one common rule book that controls the very existence of these side - such a long term view would conflict with IRFU control of its own product, both Provincially and on to the International side. I personally wouldn't tolerate any underhand (wolf in sheep's clothing) operations designed to chip away at our Unique NATIONAL structures using the fluffy language of us all being the one in a lovely and cuddly little league.
We're not all the one and that's what makes our league necessarily complicated but facts are facts. Five distinct Nations with their own methods of bringing players from youth to 'clubs' to International. The new Pro14 ideas and developments seem to be a blunt and direct initial step at corporatising not just the competitions but also the teams themselves. Essentially the desire for corporate entities to invest in the products of Pro14 will lead to an open plan for direct ownership of teams involved.
As an example of the success of that model just look to France, where Top 14 is king, buys in talent it doesn't have the patience to nurture and then we see how clueless and disinterested their Internationals appear to be. A National system destroyed to bow at the alter of corporate greed.
If admins at Pro14 are chasing that dream either openly or slyly, then I view it as a thread to the National interests of distinctly Irish rugby. I have no reason to be concerned about how Wales, Scotland or Italy choose to develop players to international level - that is uniquely their concern - we are not one Nation. Pro14 ambitions should keep their fingers out of National strategies and systems. Stick to the competition - marketing of and organising of.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:48 pm

Shame they haven't got a decent amount of competent referees

The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?   - Page 20 OVRFPoo

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:55 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Shame they haven't got a decent amount of competent referees

The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?   - Page 20 OVRFPoo
What happened?

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Post by Brendan on Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:19 am

SecretFly wrote:I'm not so sure about all this bigger and better lingo.  Needs a close eye kept on these operators as they'll have 'lobbyists' knocking on their door whistling about incentives to champion their overview on where Pro14 AND the participating teams go.  Caution caution as the ship moves ahead.

Let's not forget (and let's face it, how could we in this forum) that the participating teams use various different systems to bring their sides and their squads to the market.  If outside people are brought in to do a job then they'll have 'conformity' on their wish list.  So again, I see this as another potential stab at 'Nationalising' all competing sides under one common rule book that controls the very existence of these side - such a long term view would conflict with IRFU control of its own product, both Provincially and on to the International side.  I personally wouldn't tolerate any underhand (wolf in sheep's clothing) operations designed to chip away at our  Unique NATIONAL structures using the fluffy language of us all being the one in a lovely and cuddly little league.
We're not all the one and that's what makes our league necessarily complicated but facts are facts.  Five distinct Nations with their own methods of bringing players from youth to 'clubs' to International.  The new Pro14 ideas and developments seem to be a blunt and direct initial step at corporatising not just the competitions but also the teams themselves.  Essentially the desire for corporate entities to invest in the products of Pro14 will lead to an open plan for direct ownership of teams involved.  
As an example of the success of that model just look to France, where Top 14 is king, buys in talent it doesn't have the patience to nurture and then we see how clueless and disinterested their Internationals appear to be.  A National system destroyed to bow at the alter of corporate greed.
If admins at Pro14 are chasing that dream either openly or slyly, then I view it as a thread to the National interests of distinctly Irish rugby.  I have no reason to be concerned about how Wales, Scotland or Italy choose to develop players to international level - that is uniquely their concern - we are not one Nation.  Pro14 ambitions should keep their fingers out of National strategies and systems.  Stick to the competition - marketing of and organising of.

I don't think they are being brought in to bring uniformity but more the expertise to work with the teams plan of what they want to do and help them get it over the line.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:11 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Shame they haven't got a decent amount of competent referees

The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?   - Page 20 OVRFPoo
What happened?

A Welsh team lost so the ref must have been awful Rolling Eyes

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:58 am

I assume a penalty against red for going off their feet? Depends if green had posssion afterwards as you could have played on with advantage.

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Post by geoff999rugby on Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:48 am

marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Shame they haven't got a decent amount of competent referees

The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?   - Page 20 OVRFPoo
What happened?

A Welsh team lost so the ref must have been awful Rolling Eyes

Looks like Welsh players in from the side to me - correct decision

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Post by Kingshu on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:50 am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-union/47388295

Pro14: Georgia in talks to join competition

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:37 am


maestegmafia
Maes
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