England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 02 Sep 2018, 9:07 pm

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guildfordbat wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:The toss has proven to be most significant factor in the entire series. Root was fortunate he won the toss in every match - despite he moronic decision to bowl in Nottingham. Had the tosses been the opposite way around we could easily be 0-4 down as Kohli would've batted in Nottingham anyway.

The side is clearly in decline once Anderson and Broad leave the scene we may well struggle to even win at home.

Curran has been a decent find more for his batting, bowling isn't anything to write home about yet.

Moeen a decent comeback but his issues are he's hopeless away from England.

Cook and Jennings need scores at the Oval or i would hope both are dropped for Sri Lanka.


Root has shown in this series he's not of the class of a Smith, Kohli or Williamson. His stock has fallen big time.

Dropping is easy. Replacing is less so.
Burns and Vince. Need someone to get after the bowling on the Sri Lankan sandpits and Vince is a decent player of spin. Burns the guy the try and hold up an end.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 1:35 pm

alfie wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:I note Burns scored yet another century yesterday, this time with two veteran test openers recording ducks at 2 and 3.  Still feel England missed an opportunity by not using him in this series, but his selection for Sri Lanka seems impossible to avoid now...concerns aside theres no opener even come vaguely close to his performances in the CC this season.
Pope made 48 too...batting at 4 for once ( and effectively coming in as an opener). Still very much one for the future but its good to see the test experience hasnt robbed him of all confidence as it has some others.

Yes you'd think they have to pick Burns now ... Even if they really don't think he is the answer : just to give him a chance to fail and prove them right Smile

With Jennings apparently unavoidable at the other end there is still room for a third potential opener ; preferably a right hander who is used to fielding in the slips...  Names on the back of an envelope , please...

Gubbins was supposed to be the one but the second half of the season he's really struggling ...and that's in division 2. Last 8 innings with a highest score of 32...that's on a par with Jennings in tests. Theres an argument for taking him for "experience" if they intend to retain Jennings but as with Curran theres probably a bigger argument for sending him off with the Lions and Performance squad, and maybe playing some shield cricket or similar over the winter rather than carrying drinks.
I was getting vaguely won over by the recall Stoneman as a stopgap argument, but aside form a century a couple of weeks ago his season has been poor...again underlining just how good Burns has been scoring almost twice as many runs as him on the same pitches against the same attacks. Also a left hander for all that matters.
Joe Denly ...another div 2 "wonder" stop gap option. He doesn't even always play as an opener.
Hales and Roy don't play red ball cricket ( Buttler/Rashid aside) and cant be serious options.
Hameed is obviously a non starter.
The only other guy whos scored many runs as an opener this year is Darren Mitchell...hes 34, so again an absolute stop gap. ( But he fits your criteria perfectly)


Honestly I cant see how they can take 3 proper openers, at least two of them wont be worth a place. Either chuck Gubbins in and let him try to swim or pick a stop gap ...whether that's Jennings, Stoneman or Mitchell and take every youngster they have off to train and play with the Lions. Or maybe theres more value to playing someone like Vince as a makeshift opener for the conditions than taking along 1 or 2 pieces of baggage (Not Moeen...he's been awful up the order and an outright disaster opening in the UAE).

Mind there is one senior right handed batsman who can catch who averages over 40 opening in tests and whos of a reasonable age ....Root. Unfortunately he wont bat above 4.




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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 1:41 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
...

Daryl Mitchell fits your criteria there Alfie...should be noted Burns can also field in the slips (usually 3rd or 2nd slip for Surrey - with Sir Rikki of Clarke snaffling everything at 1st king )
...

Rikki Clarke should be a definite contender for one of the Wisden cricketers of the year.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 1:49 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:I note Burns scored yet another century yesterday, this time with two veteran test openers recording ducks at 2 and 3.  Still feel England missed an opportunity by not using him in this series, but his selection for Sri Lanka seems impossible to avoid now...concerns aside theres no opener even come vaguely close to his performances in the CC this season.
Pope made 48 too...batting at 4 for once ( and effectively coming in as an opener). Still very much one for the future but its good to see the test experience hasnt robbed him of all confidence as it has some others.

Yes you'd think they have to pick Burns now ... Even if they really don't think he is the answer : just to give him a chance to fail and prove them right Smile

With Jennings apparently unavoidable at the other end there is still room for a third potential opener ; preferably a right hander who is used to fielding in the slips...  Names on the back of an envelope , please...

Daryl Mitchell fits your criteria there Alfie...should be noted Burns can also field in the slips (usually 3rd or 2nd slip for Surrey - with Sir Rikki of Clarke snaffling everything at 1st king )

As for England's summer - I think they can call it a successful one. Yes they have holes they are well aware of, but what current test team doesn't? They've taken on an Indian team many fancied to defeat them, and managed to beat them in the biggest moments and unusually for England they've actually won some tight games - and games in which they've been behind. They do deserve credit for that - and on top of the unbelievable success of the One Day side this summer, I think they should rightly be happy with what they've done.

The winter looks intriguing - Sri Lanka and West Indies are two sides who are good at home, but on paper not unbeatable (like touring India would be). I think England have a good shot at turning around their recent winter tour form...whether that'll come to fruition is another question.

Might be time to get a "winter tour" selection discussion thread going I reckon...today I see George Dobell reporting England are considering taking Jamie Overton or Olly Stone as "pace" men for Sri Lanka (providing both stay fit - which is a 50/50 considering their past injury histories). I'd like to see that, probably Overton more than Stone (despite Stone hailing from my area of the woods), and hopefully they'll be no Mark Wood...

On board with all that Olly. There was enough in that final performance to show some things are turning around, and that the scale of the issues with the top order batting are as much to do with psychology as ability.

Im more optimistic now regarding our spinners than I have been in years.

I still think the 4-1 scoreline was a little flattering, and winning all the tosses absolutely made the difference there. But at least theres some signs of progression form Buttler, Stokes, Moeen (batting aside)  and even Rashid being a genuine threat on English pitches is a positive. Broad and Anderson are still forces and can ( just about) make it through a 5 tests series in one piece. England coped with a huge number of injuries to seamers and dipped well into their reserves but still remained effective ...showing their is a pool of talent there ( for home conditions)

Looking ahead I hope you're right on them having moved on form Wood, and Overton seems a good option to get a the chance at international cricket hes kept missing through misfortune. Usual caveats about the meaningfulness of county cricket but he has been taking wickets since returning. I don't know much about Stone but he seems to be taking wickets at the right time put himself in the frame. England absolutely have to be looking to address the issue of a lack of pace in their attack, and Woods consistently failed to deliver in tests.
Leach seems like a no brainer after another tearing through county opposition fairly regularly again. Theres no bowler close to him on wickets per game over the last couple of season...helpful pitches aside as a third spin option for Sri Lanka hes making a case for recall.



Oh and yes if a modmin could hive this off to a new winter tours selection thread that would be good!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 3:05 pm

It’s almost like Burns heard my praise this morning - an example of his excellent slip catching!

https://twitter.com/surreycricket/status/1039863186781102080?s=21
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 7:38 am

Bayliss interview suggests they will take 2 from Burns , Jennings, Gubbins and Vince to open in Sri Lanka.

Burns has done everything possible to earn a place.
Jennings offers continuity and experience. Theres also a theory he will fare better on the low pressure tour and against feeble opening bowlers.
Vince is the best technical batsman of his generation and can get away with his attacking style in Sri Lanka. One who could take apart their attack.
Gubbins would be an investment in youth and a building block toward having two proper openers again.

The negativeist approach ....theres two unproven kids one of whome is having a hard time in division 2, a guy whos had one of the worst summers by and england batsman ever,, and the othwr is James flipping Vince and the prospect of him at 2 and Moeen 3 is laughable.

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 8:36 am

Goose - as if to make your day, Denly is also getting increasingly mentioned in the press.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 8:55 am

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 11:53 am

guildfordbat wrote:Goose - as if to make your day, Denly is also getting increasingly mentioned in the press.

Ed Smith mentioned him in his interview with Mark Nicholas on C5 highlights show.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 1:15 pm

Best Jennings stat...his avergae this series against balls from seamers that were going on to hit the stumps ( by hawkeye) was 1.33. Typified by his decision the leave one that took out middle.

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