England - the winter tours thread

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England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 8:55 am

First topic message reminder :

After the perfect ending to the summer, with Alastair Cook riding into the sunset with a hundred and James Anderson breaking Glenn McGrath's record to wrap up a 4-1 series win over the #1 side in the world...England head into a brave new world (in a mere 3 weeks time!) post Cook

Tour of Sri Lanka (Oct-Nov)
5 ODI's played between 10th October and 23rd October
1 T20i played on 27th October
3 Test matches played between 6th November and 23rd November

Tour of West Indies (Jan-Mar)
3 Test matches played between 23rd January and 9th February
5 ODI's played between 20th February and 2nd March
3 T20i's played between 5th March and 10th March

As ever there are many rumblings in the media on potential selections ahead of the Sri Lanka tour...

Rory Burns seems set to take Cook's spot
Will Jennings keep his place? Or will a Vince/Denly or complete wildcard be picked to open with him?
Which spinners do England take along with Moeen/Rashid?
Do Anderson/Broad get rested?
What pace options will be taken?

All questions that will be debated and answered in the coming weeks...so I start with a little competition between us selectors on v2...

Name your test squad for the series in Sri Lanka. Whoever gets the nearest to the actual squad, gets a pair of Ed Smith approved sunglasses Cool
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 11:41 am

I am happy......Eng's show made me win some in bet365 already Very Happy

the moment I saw Eng win toss and 50 odd for two and their team composition ...and betting odds were 3 times return on Eng win...I put some on them
and after one completed innings...bet365 already allowed me to cashout @80%...which I did with a 2.5 times return in a day and a half

btw Eng will win big & handsome this one
and if they lose the toss in next game, they will struggle

Toss should be done away with
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 11:53 am

Well, a day that couldn't have gone much better for England TBH. Foakes completing his century, followed by England bowling well as a unit with everyone chipping in, backed up by (from what I saw) some good fielding/keeping, and finally Jennings and Burns doing well to see off a tricky little period before stumps.

Bowling-wise, Leach did bring the control England would have been hoping for, and chipped in with useful wickets. He looks to have a very nice, repeatable action, and won't bowl many bad balls. Moeen got plenty out of the pitch, and got his rewards. The wicket of Matthews was a lovely ball, and a tough one to deal with first ball of the session. Rashid might have been a touch underbowled (perhaps inevitable with three spinners and three seamers), but did nicely. The Chandimal wicket was a lovely bit of bowling.

Lastly, a word on Foakes's keeping, which was from what I saw very good. The catch he took off Moeen was made to look a lot easier than it was, as there was a decent deflection there (albeit as a keeper you are taught to cover the outside edge). The stumping was neat too, though I'd expect an international keeper to get that. He looks a really good gloveman.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 11:55 am

guildfordbat wrote:21/0, a lead of 160 and 5 overs left. Get through those unscathed and it'll have been a tremendous day for England.

And they do indeed make it through unscathed - 38-0 with Jennings on 26* and Burns 11*.

Early returns on the Jennings selection appear to be...positive Shocked Shocked Shocked

Absolutely superb day for England that - Anderson and Curran bowled really well up top with the new ball (crucial you get it right in those early overs in the sub continent) and then all three spinners bowled really well. Leach bowled with very good control, Rashid once into his rhythm was ripping it and Moeen continues his great form from the summer with the ball. Foakes was great behind the stumps too, and England took all their catches in the outfield.

To be honest they could even do their "lose 10 wickets in a session" trick tomorrow morning, and still probably be favourites to win the game. Dominant position
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 12:00 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well, a day that couldn't have gone much better for England TBH. Foakes completing his century, followed by England bowling well as a unit with everyone chipping in, backed up by (from what I saw) some good fielding/keeping, and finally Jennings and Burns doing well to see off a tricky little period before stumps.

Bowling-wise, Leach did bring the control England would have been hoping for, and chipped in with useful wickets. He looks to have a very nice, repeatable action, and won't bowl many bad balls. Moeen got plenty out of the pitch, and got his rewards. The wicket of Matthews was a lovely ball, and a tough one to deal with first ball of the session. Rashid might have been a touch underbowled (perhaps inevitable with three spinners and three seamers), but did nicely. The Chandimal wicket was a lovely bit of bowling.

Lastly, a word on Foakes's keeping, which was from what I saw very good. The catch he took off Moeen was made to look a lot easier than it was, as there was a decent deflection there (albeit as a keeper you are taught to cover the outside edge). The stumping was neat too, though I'd expect an international keeper to get that. He looks a really good gloveman.

He is.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 12:10 pm

Good day indeed ! Didn't see all of it ; but it appears that all bowlers played their part - backed up by some sharp catching and a polished display behind the stumps from Foakes , who is having an excellent match. Considering he seems to have been a borderline selection the England brains trust must be very glad they eventually chose to bring him in for this game !
Important short batting session for Burns (recovered from his knock I'm glad to see) and Jennings ...getting through unscathed reinforces England's advantage ; which must surely lead to their going one up some time over the next three days unless the rain arrives in biblical quantities...

Wonder how long they'll bat if not bowled out ? The reputation of this ground suggests they've got nearly enough lead already ; but obviously they will want to set Sri Lanka a crushing burden before calling time...some of the first innings aggression may well be useful sometime tomorrow...

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 12:36 pm

KP_fan wrote:

Toss should be done away with

I know you mention this every game...but why this one/ Its made no difference, england would still have batted first and Sri Lanka would still have prepared a spinners wicket.


The only issue now is how much rain there is over the last 3 days. the forecast isnt quite a s bad as it was, and the first two days have seen a lot more play than we had expected. Taking a conservative estimate lets say half the overs are lost to weather, that could / should be enough for England if they dont bat too long. Equally I dont see them taking a risk on a sporting declaration with an eye on the weather.
And of course theres still every chance they will collapse to be out for less than 200. Still a big enough lead to win, but reducing the chances of the draw further.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 12:55 pm

Well the highest run chase at Galle is 90-odd, so... Now obviously I don't advocate England declaring overnight, but even an absolutely dreadful collapse tomorrow morning would see them set SL somewhere around 250 to win, and I don't see SL getting that.

Now you can't captain (and declare) by weather forecast, but equally England will be well aware that it could rain a fair bit, and it's certainly been a bit of a (pleasant) surprise to see two full days play so far, so I think you can take into account that some time could be lost. Still, there are three days left, which is a lot, so unless the weather forecast for Friday and Saturday starts to look particularly bad, I'd be very surprised to see England declare anytime tomorrow (assuming they aren't bowled out, which is obviously far from a given).

One thing I didn't touch on in my previous post was my first look at Burns. He looks a touch fidgety to me, and maybe has a tendency to get too far across (possibly due to his strength being the legside, and looking to exploit that). Has a great chance to lay down a marker tomorrow, so let's see what he can do.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 1:28 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
KP_fan wrote:

Toss should be done away with

I know you mention this every game...but why this one/ Its made no difference, england would still have batted first and Sri Lanka would still have prepared a spinners wicket.


The only issue now is how much rain there is over the last 3 days. the forecast isnt quite a s bad as it was, and the first two days have seen a lot more play than we had expected. Taking a conservative estimate lets say half the overs are lost to weather, that could / should be enough for England if they dont bat too long. Equally I dont see them taking a risk on a sporting declaration with an eye on the weather.
And of course theres still every chance they will collapse to be out for less than 200. Still a big enough lead to win, but reducing the chances of the draw further.

Re: Toss>> My point being if Eng lost the toss it would be very difficult to win...leave aside being in a position of near certain win at the end of just 2 out of 5 possible days of tests cricket
Also if there was no toss & guaranteed that visiting  captain would bat first...sub-continental pitches would be less favoring the spinners.
Look Zim won the toss, batted first and got their first overseas win...and to do so in and against BD is not bad at all.

Re: This Match Situation >>Toss winning apart.....we don't take away the credit from Eng's good play here...remember they won 4 out of 5 tosses in India and lost 4-0
Eng will wrap this up most likely on D4 by end of session-1 or early into session-2 if it plays out without interruptions....Lankan end will come fast...in about 2 sessions of play in 2nd inning.

Eng have learnt their lessons from BD& Ind tours last year...and  gotten the team composition right
3 spinners..one of each kind.......3 seamers...competent batting down to No. 9
Eng's also lucky to have 3 WKs...all of whom can fit in as specialist batsmen
and a Host of bowlers who are all useful batsmen......Stokes, Woakes, Curran are all bowling allrounders.....Moeen a batting all-rounder  and Rashid not a bad bat at 9....and Broad not a bad bat at No. 10 if he is playing
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Duty281 on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 3:15 pm

Haven't seen much of it, but an utterly superb day for England who continue to confound me.

Forecast looks atrocious going forward, but such was the case for days one and two, and no harm done.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 5:16 pm

Very fine performance by England today. Following up his century, highly impressive wicket keeping by Foakes, exuding professional competence - but I expected nothing less. Spinners all doing their stuff nicely. So far at least England's team selection working remarkably well. If Sam Curran scores decent runs down the order and can also nip out an opener with a few overs of the new ball while it (briefly) offers a bit of swing, then it doesn't greatly matter if he might well be ineffective with the older ball.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 6:43 pm

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Very fine performance by England today.  Following up his century, highly impressive wicket keeping by Foakes, exuding professional competence - but I expected nothing less.  Spinners all doing their stuff nicely.  So far at least England's team selection working remarkably well. If Sam Curran scores decent runs down the order and can also nip out an opener with a few overs of the new ball while it (briefly) offers a bit of swing, then it doesn't greatly matter if he might well be ineffective with the older ball.

Evening Corporal - very true about Sam Curran. What still nags away at me is the thought that if the spinners don't do their stuff so well, he might need to return with the older ball and suffer accordingly.

That said, some risk nearly accompanies all team selections. Furthermore, it's working bloomin' well so far!

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 9:47 pm

Think back to May and try telling someone Englands best players in a test this year would be Moeen, Foakes Jennings and Sam Curran. None of them made the side for the first Pakistan test, only 4 of this side did. Moeen was so goosed that even with Rashid supposedly unavailable ( still is Rolling Eyes ), Leach and Crane injured, they still wouldnt pick him.

His return to form has been a heck of a turnaround, if not entirely out of character. Hes still annoyingly inconsistent, and although he really won his place back with the bat as a batsman who could bowl as a second spinner its the ball hes done all the good things with. Hes taken 16 wickets in 5 innings @20 ....his previous 10 had taken 15 innings @110 ...and prior to that was the SA series where in 8 innings he took 25 wickets @15 (What is it with India and SA that makes them so vulnerable to Moeen?)
20 test innings since he passed 50 with the bat. Such a frustrating player!



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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 5:22 am

Saw 2 days of highlights and my observations...

-the pitch is not a raging turner yet in 2 days...but has bounce and some turn for spinners

--top orders of both sides threw away their wickets

--Rashid was the only spinner giving it a Rip and putting a lot of revs on the ball

--Foakes looked very compact, playing the ball late and always close to the body....a bit like kohli and his tall height gives him a good outreach when occasionally he gets fully on the front foot
Tall guys can't keep for too long though...such tall bodies are prone to breaking quicker under the rigors of squatting and repeated getting up and down that a wK has to do

--This Lanka side lacks the fight......once they are down...they only go out....little signs of resistance and fightback
saw that In Asia Cup too
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 7:23 am

Well theres a lot more for the spinners today and once again its only Jennings out of the top order whos made runs. Moeen just isnt a top 3 bat.

Lead now over 250 with 3 wickets down.....despite their glaring weaknesses and the threat of rain England look to be cruising to a win.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by KP_fan on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 7:53 am

Gooseberry wrote:Well theres a lot more for the spinners today and once again its only Jennings out of the top order whos made runs. Moeen just isnt a top 3 bat.

Lead now over 250 with 3 wickets down.....despite their glaring weaknesses and the threat of rain England look to be cruising to a win.

Moeen is at 3 because he has agreed to be a sacrificial lamb
some kinda agreement with Root & management

" I agree to be at 3 and you guarantee me a place in the side inspite of my batting failures and this will allow you (Root) to bat at your favored No. 4 and allow team to have an extra spinner in the XI"

Jennings appears to be more at ease in subcontinent where the ball is not seaming so muhc ....and gets away with his lack of feet movement and angled bat play...although he was bowled in first inning trying to play with an angled bat one that was too close to him...and should have presented the full face
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 8:15 am

60 runs scored in the first hour after lunch and England building a sizable lead.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 8:24 am

Stokes really opening up now...suggests England maybe do have an eye on the weather or at least feel their lead makes it safe now. Excellent innings from him. Jennings has rode his luck at lot more, but when it comes down to it hes closing in on a career saving century

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 8:49 am

England batting comfortably to the crushing lead they want - despite failures for Root and Moeen. Stokes did what Stokes does ; but Jennings has been the big surprise. Perhaps not that surprising as he basically kept his place for his supposed ability against spin...but this score has been a long time coming ! Still score one for the selectors...

Hope England dont bat too long : apart from these pressure- free third innings being a bit boring there must surely be the possibility that rain will shorten the time available ; and from this position England want to make certain of a win. Hour or so bowling tonight ?

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 9:01 am

Obviously we want to see Jennings get his hundred : six more needed ...
After that I think they'll just look for a 400 lead : few more big hits like that from Buttler and it might not take long to get there ! And Buttler's luck is still running for him I see as he gets away with an edge via pad .

96 now for Jennings...

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 9:03 am

alfie wrote:England batting comfortably to the crushing lead they want - despite failures for Root and Moeen. Stokes did what Stokes does ; but Jennings has been the big surprise. Perhaps not that surprising as he basically kept his place for his supposed ability against spin...but this score has been a long time coming ! Still score one for the selectors...

Hope England dont bat too long : apart from these pressure- free third innings being a bit boring there must surely be the possibility that rain will shorten the time available ; and from this position England want to make certain of a win. Hour or so bowling tonight ?

Yeah I would imagine they have a dart after tea for an hour, maybe hour and a half - probably look to get a lead around 450 and then have a half hour tonight, so they have two bites with a relatively new ball
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 9:26 am

Gooseberry wrote:Think back to May and try telling someone Englands best players in a test this year would be Moeen, Foakes Jennings and Sam Curran. None of them made the side for the first Pakistan test, only 4 of this side did. Moeen was so goosed that even with Rashid supposedly unavailable ( still is Rolling Eyes ), Leach and Crane injured, they still wouldnt pick him.

His return to form has been a heck of a turnaround, if not entirely out of character. Hes still annoyingly inconsistent, and although he really won his place back with the bat as a batsman who could bowl as a second spinner its the ball hes done all the good things with. Hes taken 16 wickets in 5 innings @20 ....his previous 10 had taken 15 innings @110 ...and prior to that was the SA series where in 8 innings he took 25 wickets @15 (What is it with India and SA that makes them so vulnerable to Moeen?)
20 test innings since he passed 50 with the bat. Such a frustrating player!



I'm probably more of a "Moeen the bowler" fan than most on here. Recognize his limitations - and his inconsistency , which is , I think , partly down to a fragile confidence - but he has too many match winning performances to disregard.
He can be awful : as in Australia. But in truth that probably was 50% or more down to his finger injury (and the resultant confidence collapse) and partly a result of the lack of pressure from the other end with really only Anderson performing near par. He does tend to prosper much more when the pace men have done a bit of the ground work - probably similar to a lot of spinners.
He's not a Warne ; or even a Swann. But he's generally done a decent job for England as the sole spinner , at least at home (where one spinner is the norm). And the fact that he can bat - despite being moved around the order rather more than is probably good for him - is a handy bonus. He'd be in my team 99% of the time...

Jennings a nervous tea on 98 ?

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 9:41 am

Jennings - who I guess we all reallywanted in our team all along Smile
goes to his second hundred in Asia with a nudge off the hip - very Cook-like ...

Good lad clap

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by eirebilly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 9:43 am

Well done Jennings clap
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 9:45 am

Well done Jennings. Time to really accelerate now.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 10:12 am

That's a brilliant catch by Silva in close to get rid of Buttler
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Duty281 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 10:33 am

Superb stuff from Jennings, who seems to prefer it in the subcontinent to home.

Only question now is: how long do England bat on for? Only about 190 overs left in the test, a flurry of rain could shorten that.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 10:45 am

The Sky guys at the ground continually taking about us batting into tomorrow morning. Key in the studio referred to Lloyd there seeming to be ''in the know''. However, not for the first time, I side with Key - get the lead beyond 450 and then give them 6 or 7 overs tonight. The way we're cracking on atm tends to support that's what's going to happen.

History - where's Craig? Smile - gives Sri Lanka no chance from here other than rain.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:04 am

I loved it, just loved it that Root didn't declare when Foakes was out but waited one more ball to the end of the over.

With apologies and respect to Kevin Keegan and Gareth Batty. Wink

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:05 am

Set them 461...

Batted a bit longer than I would have but two days ought to be plenty.

Jennings undefeated on 146 : the new Cook Smile

Wicket or two tonight would be nice...

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:10 am

Fine knock from Jennings, and useful support from Burns (initially), Stokes (nicely paced knock that), Buttler and Foakes (useful cameos). I'll admit to being a little surprised they've declared tonight, but it's a nice surprise. Probably an eye on the weather too. And I'll admit to being completely and utterly wrong about picking Jennings for this tour. His technique may not stand up to scrutiny when the ball's nipping around, but he does play spin well, and has proved an excellent pick by the selectors here.

Question to the Surrey boys here about Burns: does he tend to get run out a lot? That's twice on tour already...

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:31 am

Slightly surprised it is Moeen rather than Leach bowling this evening ? Guess he had the four in the first innings ...

Pitch seems less than a minefield at the moment so the 450 plus lead is probably reasonable. But you'd think once a couple go down things will happen tomorrow : a long haul for Sri Lanka to get out of this.

Is this a run out ? Brilliant work from Foakes but I think the batsman is safe...yes.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:37 am

15/0 at the close.

Fancy tomorrow might be different...

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Duty281 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:40 am

First job done for Sri Lanka, then, as they see off 7 overs before stumps.

But surely only a downpour of monsoon proportions can save them from going one down.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 12:03 pm

Didn't see that much today but clearly a very effective innings from Jennings which held everything together and enabled others to crack on later. I did see and enjoy Foakes' cameo though.

With regard to a couple of other posts, I share Alfie's considered support for Moeen and particularly as a bowler. I've spent too much time in the past arguing with goose in favour of his ''remarkable'' performances to say anything else!

In response to MfC's query about Burns, I've also been intrigued by his methods of dismissal on this tour. I can't recall him ever being run out in Championship cricket. I also don't associate him being strangled down the legside.

I don't know if you, MfC, have seen any of my earlier posts about Burns. To confirm, imo he definitely deserved his call up to this tour and merits an opportunity for the consistent and dominant way in which he has scored CC runs and especially in 2018 (plus - as goose might say - almost all the others have been tried and shown to be as much use as a dustbin). However, for me, whilst he's undoubtedly a good to very good Championship player, I have my reservations about him making the step up to Test cricket. I suspect that the unrelenting quality of bowlers at the highest level, unlike in the Championship, will do for him as they have for others in the past. His main failing in CC cricket - at least until this last season - has been to go on and go big. A lot of fifties but not enough tons. To even get fifties on this tour, he'll need more luck than he's had so far although I wonder if some of that is down to beginner's nerves (something he clearly doesn't suffer from with Surrey).

PS Splendid attempt late on at a stumping / run out by Foakes with the ball ricocheting around off batsman and fielder's boot. Seen that successfully accomplished at the Oval. If Foakes' Test place isn't cemented yet, it's at least secured by the highest quality superglue! Wink

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 12:53 pm

Cheers guildford. On the leg-side strangle, I'm not too bothered. It happens to everyone once in a while, and Burns's technique does suggest that occasionally he'll get a bit too far across and tickle one through to the keeper. It's not something I'd worry about much though. The run outs are interesting, and suggest a touch of nerves perhaps. Certainly at international level, you can't really afford to make it to 20 and run yourself out, as seems to have happened to him twice on tour already (with the caveat that I have no idea if he was at fault for his run out in the warm-up).

I followed some of the discussion earlier re his selection, and did note your reservations, but as you quite rightly say, if someone scores as heavily as he did all summer in a problem position, you really do have to give him a chance. Hopefully he can get a nice score in the next Test of 60+ to really settle him down. From what I've seen, he looks a little fidgety with a bit too much movement, but that can be fixed fairly easily. Certainly not someone like Root where you took one look at him and knew he'd be successful at international level, but equally no glaring weaknesses that make you certain that he'll flop, so I shall reserve judgment for now.

And indeed a splendid bit of keeping late on from Foakes, very sharp, and so nearly bringing England a wicket. Foakes has certainly done all that could be expected of him in this game (and then some!) which of course leaves England with an interesting selection conundrum for when Bairstow gets back to fitness.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:01 pm

Just to note - according to Cricviz, that was Burns's first run out in a First Class game since 2014.
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:24 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Just to note - according to Cricviz, that was Burns's first run out in a First Class game since 2014.

Thanks for that confirmation, Olly.

I would have been very worried for him and my memory if you said he had been run out half a dozen times in the last couple of seasons! Smile

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:50 pm

I do not think Bairstow should come back into the side until there is a vacancy he can fill, and the only roles he can fill it seems are Buttler's or Foakes - neither of whom should be dropped. Longer term we need more than cameos from Buttler at 6, but he has been in much better form than the Yorkie for the last 6 months.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:17 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I do not think Bairstow should come back into the side until there is a vacancy he can fill, and the only roles he can fill it seems are Buttler's or Foakes - neither of whom should be dropped. Longer term we need more than cameos from Buttler at 6, but he has been in much better form than the Yorkie for the last 6 months.

Yep, it does look very hard atm to get Bairstow back without unnecessarily disrupting the balance of the side. It's not as if we have a Denly or a Pope occupying a place, one of whom could be more easily chucked to allow him in purely as a batsman.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by VTR on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:27 pm

Bizarre line in the BBC report:

"The performance did little to answer the questions about the balance of England's team, where they seem to have plenty of middle order batsmen but few scoring runs in the top three"

Err, other than the guy who pretty much made 150 not out

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:38 pm

Tbf Jennings is starting to look as if he should only play tests in Asia.


Arguably we have:

A walking wicket and a solid county pro at the top of the order.
A lower middle order spinner at 3 and a beleaguered skipper at 4.
Two seam bowling all rounders who are really change bowlers.
Two keeper batsmen, with a 3rd on the fringes.
Two more spinners with only patch test records.
A seam bowling great who is close to being able to draw his PCA pension.


Of course this is taking things to the extreme, but right now we do not appear to be any closer to either nailing down a reliable top 3 nor persuading Moeen he can be a sole spinner when we return to seam friendly tracks.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 7:41 pm

If We are picking a side full of specialists instead of bits and pieces all rounders then the only spinner would be Jack Leach. Moeen is no more than a luxury player. Wild slogger with the bat and not consistent with the ball. Given a decent chance Leach could easily be as good as Panesar was.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 4:45 am

Least Jennings went and confirmed what some of us hoped: he can play spin! Well done to him, mentally impressive return to form as much as anything else. Extreme resolve and fantastic mindset, lesser men might have crumbled regardless of conditions/bowling.

I also don’t see how Bairstow comes in whilst we’re there. I presume Leach and Rashid would jump out of the team at home, so pressure could be on Bairstow to show he can play up the order to fit in and for Stokes to be a genuine all rounder. Unsure if bowling line up of Broad, Ali, Anderson, Curran, Stokes works.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 6:00 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Least Jennings went and confirmed what some of us hoped: he can play spin! Well done to him, mentally impressive return to form as much as anything else. Extreme resolve and fantastic mindset, lesser men might have crumbled regardless of conditions/bowling.

I also don’t see how Bairstow comes in whilst we’re there. I presume Leach and Rashid would jump out of the team at home, so pressure could be on Bairstow to show he can play up the order to fit in and for Stokes to be a genuine all rounder. Unsure if bowling line up of Broad, Ali, Anderson, Curran, Stokes works.

Don't see why not - at least in normal English conditions. If it is very flat on occasions the number of all rounders will probably permit a second spinner ; but that was basically the shape of the successful attack last summer. Anyway selection for home Tests can wait for now...

Decent session this ...after early Sri Lankan resistance both openers have fallen to good spin bowling from Leach and Moeen . England would love one or two more before lunch but the signs so far from the two spinners are good...71/2 after 28

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by alfie on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 6:01 am

Rashid to have a go now...

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 7:57 am

Looks like a pretty attritional chipping away at Sri Lanka who are showing a bit of application in tough circumstances rather than an pit and out capitulation.
The forecast isnt too bad for tomorrow so there should be a good number of overs left if England just keep plugging away.

Bairstow could replace Foakes for the next test, or even if they feel 3seamers is a needless luxury ( theyve only bowled as much between them as some of them did individually in the home tests) and bring him back to strengthen the batting ....but I dont see that happening. Bairstows been really unfortunate but ultimately Buttler and Foakes have made the most of the opportunities theyve had. Foakes brings something that England have missed for years with the gloves and has shown his county form with the bat can be translated to tests.
Theres no need for a change when youve got a succesful formula, although the batting line up really is about the weakest England have had in the Bayliss era.

For home tests Id have Woakes ahead of Broad now ...hos record with bat and ball in the previous two summers has been remarkable ( Proved by me just remarking on it)

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:01 am

Bairstow's been unlucky with the timing of his injury, but I do think it's right to note he's only averaged 26 in 2018 in test matches - and ended the summer with scores of 15, 0, 6, 0, 0 and 18. He's not exactly been in blistering form in the red ball stuff - so after the way Foakes has gone in this test, I think they should just hold off on his return for another test at least
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:02 am

Oh wow incredible drop by Anderson at mid wicket - Stokes worked his behind off for 7 overs to get that chance, and Anderson drops a complete dolly - Mathews given a life.
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:12 am

Yep, terrific effort by Stokes. I was surprised he had that last over in him - should have been rewarded for it.

But now Mendis chucks it away against Leach.

Olly - you and I haven't been impressed by Leach when we've seen him in the county game but he's doing well here. Decent control and temperament being displayed.

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Re: England - the winter tours thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:20 am

Yeah Leach has bowled well in this game Guildford - he's playing his role very well and justifying his slot as the third spinner.

Now the first minor blemish for Foakes - a very very tough inside edge off Anderson didn't stick. Mathews gets another life.

Anderson just got a bit of inswing movement in that over - something to keep an eye on
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Re: England - the winter tours thread

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