Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

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Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 10:37 am

Still plenty of tennis to be played. Djoko's remarkable comeback means that he could end this year as number one again. Even if he doesn't reach the summit, he could do so in the first half of 2019.
Bit surprised Murray is not playing this week. I would have thought, with a couple of minor tournaments being played, that he could have got some much-needed match practice. Or is he saving himself for the China tournaments coming up?



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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Wed 19 Sep 2018, 8:39 am

Good to see JW Tsonga back in action this week in Metz. He's been out injured since February. He lost in three to Gojowczyk but no doubt he was just glad to be on court again.
In St Petersburg, Youzhny is playing his final tournament. The 36-year-old, now 110 in the world, has been as high as eight in the rankings and needs two wins to make it 500 in his career.
It's now 16 years since he memorably came from two sets down in the final match of the Davis Cup final to clinch it for Russia.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Wed 19 Sep 2018, 10:59 am

If it was a matter of Andy Murray getting himself match fit, tournament fit, then I would be expecting him entering doubles matches and lower ranked tournaments.   It seems to me he is only motivated in playing and preparing for fairly big tournaments.  It doesn't seem he has full mobility of his right hip joint (noticeable in normal walking gait), but it doesn't seem to affect his play.  Be interesting to see how Nishikori and others play.  It seems that little injuries keep affecting many of the players.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Wed 19 Sep 2018, 9:23 pm

Youzhny had a good win today so moves to 499 career victories. Stan the Man came thru 7-6, 7-6 against Khachanov.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 7:09 am

Youzhny just fell short in his final match - losing in three to Bautista Agut. Shapovalov is thru to the quarters in St Petersburg. Considering he won't be 20 until next April he's had a good year and could be destined to be an outstanding player.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 2:24 pm

No name Bertie wrote:If it was a matter of Andy Murray getting himself match fit, tournament fit, then I would be expecting him entering doubles matches and lower ranked tournaments.  .

Andy is back in action next week at the ATP250 event:- The Shenzhen Open.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 11:02 am

Good news about Murray's return. Bad news is that he faces Goffin if he wins his first match against another WC.
I see that Stan the Mn is continuing to get some good results and is thru to his first semi since February. Big tournament for the women next week with all the top players taking part.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 1:00 pm

Murray will play two of the Chinese tournaments coming up to close his season. He will use November and December to prepare for the new season.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 2:22 pm

Can't understand why Andy is continuing to wrap himself up in cotton wool. Surely it would be better to play as much as possible between now and the end of the season to, first, get match fit, and secondly, to see where he's at.
He could still have had plenty of weeks to train before the new season started.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 2:42 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Can't understand why Andy is continuing to wrap himself up in cotton wool. Surely it would be better to play as much as possible between now and the end of the season to, first, get match fit, and secondly, to see where he's at.
  He could still have had plenty of weeks to train before the new season started.

I can see why he's doing it. Cut down on the mileage. He maybe feels his match sharpness is at a pretty good level but is struggling with court speed and ultimate fitness. Running himself into the ground with more tournaments right up to the season's end would run the risk of pushing too hard too soon for what? He isn't going to make the World Tour Finals or anything like that.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 6:29 pm

I am sure people have seen this report - a Guardian article interviewing Agassi and dated July 3rd 2018.  Agassi biggest reason for leaving Djokovic's coaching team was that Djokovic refused to accept his advice - which was to have surgery for his elbow.  Only later did Djokovic come to the conclusion he had to have surgery:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/03/andre-agassi-novak-djokovic-listen-advice-elbow-injury

It seems to me then that both Djokovic and Murray refused to have surgery when it seemed to others that that was what was required.  The strange thing with regard to Djokovic was that according to Djokovic he had the elbow issue since about the start of 2016 (maybe it was a reaction to winning AO 2016) where he later won the French Open 2016.   Murrays problem appeared about a year later - maybe late 2016/ early 2017.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 23 Sep 2018, 8:37 am

I could be wrong here, but I thought that Murray was given two options - a period of rest, or surgery which might or might not sort out the problem.
Well, the rest period didn't work so he then opted for surgery. Now it could be that in Djoko's case some people did not support Agassi's view that surgery was the answer and that Djoko sided with them, initially.
For active sportsmen, surgery is often the way to go. Except when it comes to knees which never seem to completely clear up - surgery or no surgery.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 23 Sep 2018, 10:44 am

sirfredperry wrote:I could be wrong here, but I thought that Murray was given two options - a period of rest, or surgery which might or might not sort out the problem.
  Well, the rest period didn't work so he then opted for surgery. Now it could be that in Djoko's case some people did not support  Agassi's view that surgery was the answer and that Djoko sided with them, initially.
  For active sportsmen, surgery is often the way to go. Except when it comes to knees which never seem to completely clear up - surgery or no surgery.

Yes sfp Andy was advised he had two courses of action. Either rest up for about 6 months and hope the injury clears up or surgery but there was no guarantee that would be a success so he opted for the rest option. However, the rest option did not see the problem clear up so went for the more risky option of surgery.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 23 Sep 2018, 11:31 am

I’m slightly surprised Andy has ruled out Shanghai already. However, it makes sense for him to make sure he has a long pre-season. I’m very encouraged by what he’s produced so far. Expect him to be a genuine contender next year, barring any relapse.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 24 Sep 2018, 10:50 am

Simon and Thiem took titles yesterday. Let's hope Andy M can have a good run this week.
Konta is already out of this week's tournament in Wuhan - beaten by Barty.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 24 Sep 2018, 10:59 am

Born Slippy wrote:I’m slightly surprised Andy has ruled out Shanghai already. However, it makes sense for him to make sure he has a long pre-season. I’m very encouraged by what he’s produced so far. Expect him to be a genuine contender next year, barring any relapse.

If I am honest I am still on the fence and its bloody sore up here.

He still has rebuilding to do on shaking off rust, rebuilding confidence and putting together results. I would say it may take him until the grass court season (at least) before I can see him being in a position to mount serious challenges and even that is not a guarantee by any means.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by MrInvisible on Mon 24 Sep 2018, 12:21 pm

Good to see Thiem maintaining his form over a full year - US Open quarters followed up by St Petersburg title is pretty good considering the Austrian has tended to fade after the French Open in previous years. Simon still keeps popping up to win the odd title too - he tends to do well in those French tournaments. Osaka reached a final too but was beaten by Pliskova.

I also saw that the 'Laver Cup' took place with Federer, Zverev, Isner, Kyrgios and others in action. Thinking back to Davis Cup semis last weekend I recall Isner wasn't in the US team - did he snub Davis Cup in order to play Laver Cup?

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by Born Slippy on Mon 24 Sep 2018, 1:14 pm

Isner didn’t play in Croatia as his wife was due to give birth.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by MrInvisible on Mon 24 Sep 2018, 1:27 pm

Fair enough, will let him off this time! I did think it was unusual that Isner wasn't around for that tie, as he has been a stalwart for the US over the years in Davis Cup. I remain to be convinced about the Laver Cup though - looks like a glorified exhibition match to me.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Tue 25 Sep 2018, 8:40 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:I could be wrong here, but I thought that Murray was given two options - a period of rest, or surgery which might or might not sort out the problem.
  Well, the rest period didn't work so he then opted for surgery. Now it could be that in Djoko's case some people did not support  Agassi's view that surgery was the answer and that Djoko sided with them, initially.
  For active sportsmen, surgery is often the way to go. Except when it comes to knees which never seem to completely clear up - surgery or no surgery.

Yes sfp Andy was advised he had two courses of action. Either rest up for about 6 months and hope the injury clears up or surgery but there was no guarantee that would be a success so he opted for the rest option. However, the rest option did not see the problem clear up so went for the more risky option of surgery.
Reading the BIB "Yes sfp Andy" - I had to do a double take.   I think I maybe misread it and that got me thinking.  

Should we be calling Andy, Sir Andy and Andy Murray, Sir Andy Murray?  Surely it is a sign of disrespect amongst us commoners?  

I am sure Sir Fred Perry might agree?  Maybe the next Labour Government will introduce a Republican form of government (at least we know the shadow PM & shadow cabinet are republican) - in which case Sir Andy Murray might be led up to the gallows ...

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 25 Sep 2018, 12:46 pm

I always thought it was a bit strange to knight Andy while he was still playing. Perhaps better if they'd waited until he retired.
Pompously, I insist on being addressed as sir, with my good wife answering to Lady Perry.
Andy being hit by a rain delay in China at the moment. Hope he doesn't end up with schedule issues.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Tue 25 Sep 2018, 4:18 pm

Unconvinced that Sir Fred Perry was gracing our forum I went to check his Wikipedia entry - and opened up a right can of worms.  

Fred Perry was never knighted, although he won grand slams and Davis Cups for Britain.  As he was from a working class family - he couldn't afford to remain amateur and had enough of the class consciousness and snobbery of the LTA so went to America to turn professional in 1936.  He didn't have a pile of money from his parents nor a nobility status with an annual stipend - so had to either give up tennis or turn professional.  He became a naturalised US citizen in 1938 and was drafted by the US into the US air force in 1942.  He was never knighted despite other naturalised US citizens being knighted such as (Sir) Alfred Hitchcock.  He also returned to Britain permanently sometime after the war.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 25 Sep 2018, 6:04 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Unconvinced that Sir Fred Perry was gracing our forum I went to check his Wikipedia entry - and opened up a right can of worms.  

Fred Perry was never knighted, although he won grand slams and Davis Cups for Britain.  As he was from a working class family - he couldn't afford to remain amateur and had enough of the class consciousness and snobbery of the LTA so went to America to turn professional in 1936.  He didn't have a pile of money from his parents nor a nobility status with an annual stipend - so had to either give up tennis or turn professional.  He became a naturalised US citizen in 1938 and was drafted by the US into the US air force in 1942.  He was never knighted despite other naturalised US citizens being knighted such as (Sir) Alfred Hitchcock.  He also returned to Britain permanently sometime after the war.

OK. I made the title up!

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 25 Sep 2018, 6:21 pm

Murray came thru after a struggle when his lowly-ranked opponent retired 4-2 down in the final set. Andy was 5-1 up in the first set before taking it 6-3.
He was 5-2 down in the second set before getting it back on serve only to lose the tiebreak. Goffin is up next and will be the highest ranked player Andy has met this season.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Tue 25 Sep 2018, 6:52 pm

sirfredperry wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:Unconvinced that Sir Fred Perry was gracing our forum I went to check his Wikipedia entry - and opened up a right can of worms ...
OK. I made the title up!
You will always be Sir Fred Perry to me OK

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Tue 25 Sep 2018, 6:55 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Murray came thru after a struggle when his lowly-ranked opponent retired 4-2 down in the final set. Andy was 5-1 up in the first set before taking it 6-3.
 He was 5-2 down in the second set before getting it back on serve only to lose the tiebreak. Goffin is up next and will be the highest ranked player Andy has met this season.
It seems to me Andy Murray hasn't had an easy match yet since his operation, apart from Wawrinka at Eastbourne (6-1 6-3).  His latest match would have been his tenth competitive match since his operation.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 26 Sep 2018, 6:09 pm

A fine win for Cameron Norrie in the 2nd Round of the Shenzhen Open beating no 3 seed Borno Coric 6-4 7-6.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 7:35 am

Yes, good win for Norries. Let's hope Andy can beat Goffin today. Extraordinary giantkilling in the women's big event in Wuhan where none of the top 15 have made the quarters.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:03 pm

Andy Murray against David Goffin match underway. Going with serve. Murray leads 2-1.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:07 pm

With his first break point Murray takes it to lead 3-1.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:21 pm

Goffin breaks back and we are back on serve. Murray leads 4-3 with Goffin to serve.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:24 pm

A very loose service game from Goffin and Murray breaks back to lead 5-3 and will serve for the first set.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:30 pm

And Murray holds firm to take the first set 6-3. He's serving well and hitting the ball sweetly. So far so good.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:37 pm

An early break of serve in the second set and Murray leads 6-3 1-0.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:47 pm

This is looking like being surprisingly easy for Andy. He leads 6-3 3-0.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:54 pm

A sloppy service game from Andy and Goffin gets a break back. Murray leads 6-3 3-1.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 1:56 pm

But Murray re-establishes his double break in the next game to lead 6-3 4-1.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 2:20 pm

Goffin back at 4-5* having been *1-5. Massive service game for Andy now - needs to put this match away without yet more unnecessary messing around.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 2:29 pm

And Andy Murray survives a second set wobble to win 6-3 6-4. A moral boosting win to send him into the Shenzhen Open QF's.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 3:27 pm

Well played Cameron, well played Murray.  Murray is currently ranked 311 but I think so far he is playing like a top 50 player with potential for significantly more improvement.  I suppose it would be too much to ask for a title in one of the two tournaments he has entered.  As long as he shows continued improvement that is probably the best we can expect for the moment.  So that was his 11th competitive match post-op under his belt.  

Murray still seems to be showing signs of "wobble" - maybe this is rustiness - or maybe it is him learning how to live and navigate around his current physical state.   I am not convinced the operation has resulted in a pre-injury level of hip movement - but it seems to be good enough to get him competing again at the elite level.  Similarly I am not convinced that Djokovic has the same pre-injury level of physical strength in his elbow post-op - but it is evidently good enough for him to win the last two slams.  

I think as players pick up wear and tear as they age, the better players adapt their games accordingly so that they are always able to eek out the most from their changing physical states.   I think Federer and Nadal are examples of this.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 3:57 pm

I think Murray, well most players really, have a wobble - it is how they come through that wobble that matters. I think today was about the best he has played on his comeback so far but like you I am still to be convinced he will get back to the level he was once at but it takes time like it did with even Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 3:57 pm

Goffin had never previously even taken a set off Murray so I thought there might be a chance for Andy today. Bad news is that he could end up playing Verdasco next which is a tricky match up. Good news is that he's just beaten a top 15 player.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 4:49 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Goffin had never previously even taken a set off Murray so I thought there might be a chance for Andy today. Bad news is that he could end up playing Verdasco next which is a tricky match up. Good news is that he's just beaten a top 15 player.

Verdasco beats Taro Daniel and will play Murray in the QF's.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by No name Bertie on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 7:45 pm

Verdasco will be an excellent test and the type of player Murray needs to be beating to be getting back to the top level again.   Murray played well against Verdasco at the US Open  - winning a set and losing in four 5-7 6-4 4-6 4-6 in a match that lasted 3 hours 23 minutes in high heat (up to 38C) and high humidity conditions.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 28 Sep 2018, 10:15 am

Murray likely to be victim of yet another example of crap scheduling today. He's last on and the first match has taken two hours 40 mins.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 28 Sep 2018, 4:44 pm

Murray and Norrie both beaten in straight sets. A pity, as they both had winnable matches.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by lags72 on Fri 28 Sep 2018, 5:12 pm

The ‘rebuilding’ is proving a long road for Andy .....
it’s clearly difficult to get any momentum going without a decent run of successive wins.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 28 Sep 2018, 5:36 pm

Well it is a good judge of where he is at. Andy at his best beats Verdasco. It was close but lets remember how long it took Federer, Nadal and Djokovic to become winning machines after lengthy injuries in the past. It took them acwhile.
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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by lags72 on Fri 28 Sep 2018, 6:35 pm

Well Nadal and Djokovic .... yes.

Not so sure the same applies to Federer : the longest injury layoff of his career was second half of 2016, after which his first tournament on return was a Slam - and he just happened to win it. Mind you, I’ve always considered Federer a freak of nature.

Andy’s surgery was particularly difficult / troublesome involving the hip. If he can beat a player of Goffin’s level, then I doubt it will be too long before he is fully competitive and a major threat to others once more.

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 28 Sep 2018, 6:46 pm

lags72 wrote:Well Nadal and Djokovic .... yes.

Not so sure the same applies to Federer : the longest injury layoff of his career was second half of 2016, after which his first tournament on return was a Slam - and he just happened to win it. Mind you, I’ve always considered Federer a freak of nature.

Andy’s surgery was particularly difficult / troublesome involving the hip. If he can beat a player of Goffin’s level, then I doubt it will be too long before he is fully competitive and a major threat to others once more.

Well Federer has had his barren spells too. But point taken.

I think we will have a better idea by the time the grass court season starts next year.

Breaking news: Murray calls an end to his season as he has a slight ankle issue and will mow miss the tournament in Beijing.
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CaledonianCraig

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Re: Autumn Tournaments - Run up to Year-End Championship

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