Interesting article about wage spend

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Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 10:19 am

Really puts in perspective, how tough it is for some Pro14 teams to keep up with others in terms of paying for their squads, and being able to pay for quality overseas players.

While the PRO14 has no official salary caps, the four Irish provinces player cost amount to roughly £7 million, which is on par with the English Premiership’s cap.

Welsh and Scottish teams operate on less again. The SRU have been quoted as stating that Edinburgh Rugby has a player budget of £4.8m, while Glasgow Warriors operates on approximately £5.1 million.

The Welsh regions have a budget in and around the £5 million mark, varying slightly on each region.


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/top14s-massive-salary-cap-now-dwarfs-that-of-the-premiership-confirmed/

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 10:57 am

I don't mean to pour scorn on such a detailed article, but is the author claiming Ulster and Connacht player wages are around the £7m
As I can't see that being true

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:17 am

Ulsters professional rugby costs last season were just over £5m last year, that includes players costs, management costs and medical costs

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:24 am

marty2086 wrote:Ulsters professional rugby costs last season were just over £5m last year, that includes players costs, management costs and medical costs

Does that include the IRFU centrally contracted players, which would have been Best, Payne, Bowe, Trimble etc?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:26 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Ulsters professional rugby costs last season were just over £5m last year, that includes players costs, management costs and medical costs

Does that include the IRFU centrally contracted players, which would have been Best, Payne, Bowe, Trimble etc?

Why would it? They're not contracted to Ulster?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:29 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Ulsters professional rugby costs last season were just over £5m last year, that includes players costs, management costs and medical costs

Does that include the IRFU centrally contracted players, which would have been Best, Payne, Bowe, Trimble etc?

Why would it? They're not contracted to Ulster?

So with the answer being no then : you need to add in some more player wages to that Ulster figure don't you.

Rendering your initial post completely useless in the context of this thread..

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:37 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Ulsters professional rugby costs last season were just over £5m last year, that includes players costs, management costs and medical costs

Does that include the IRFU centrally contracted players, which would have been Best, Payne, Bowe, Trimble etc?

Why would it? They're not contracted to Ulster?

So with the answer being no then : you need to add in some more player wages to that Ulster figure don't you.

Rendering your initial post completely useless in the context of this thread..

No actually it highlights how wrong the original article is

Firstly is says

the four Irish provinces player cost amount to roughly £7 million

I have pointed out that that's blatantly untrue, Ulsters costs wouldn't even come to £5m considering the figure reported includes staff and other costs.

Given that the figures for the central contracts are unknown if you were to include even though the claim is about the provinces costs it would mean when they say roughly they are making it up as they go along

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:50 am

Why wouldn't you include all the players that play rugby for Ulster, when discussing Ulster's wage bill?

Very odd.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Standulstermen on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:54 am

I would be very interested to see the relative costs this year for Ulster without Trimble, Bowe and Payne and with only Coetzee really in the marquee player bracket and so much of the squad being taken up with academy guys. You would imagine the wage bill would be quite low this season.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 11:57 am

It's a bit of a finger in the air. 5 million for Welsh teams include the central contracts then I take it. Some.players must be on a pittance!

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:06 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Why wouldn't you include all the players that play rugby for Ulster, when discussing Ulster's wage bill?

Very odd.

Well do the figures for England include the EPS squad costs?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:09 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Why wouldn't you include all the players that play rugby for Ulster, when discussing Ulster's wage bill?

Very odd.

Well do the figures for England include the EPS squad costs?

Do you mean money that players get for playing for England?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:12 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Why wouldn't you include all the players that play rugby for Ulster, when discussing Ulster's wage bill?

Very odd.

Well do the figures for England include the EPS squad costs?

Do you mean money that players get for playing for England?

Well that's what the EPS squad costs are

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:13 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Why wouldn't you include all the players that play rugby for Ulster, when discussing Ulster's wage bill?

Very odd.

Well do the figures for England include the EPS squad costs?

Do you mean money that players get for playing for England?

Well that's what the EPS squad costs are

Why on earth would they be counted. We're talking about salaries. Not appearance money.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:16 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Why wouldn't you include all the players that play rugby for Ulster, when discussing Ulster's wage bill?

Very odd.

Well do the figures for England include the EPS squad costs?

Do you mean money that players get for playing for England?

Well that's what the EPS squad costs are

Why on earth would they be counted. We're talking about salaries. Not appearance money.

Except you want to count the Irish equivalent towards the provinces, why shouldn't it count towards the English costs?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:19 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Except you want to count the Irish equivalent towards the provinces, why shouldn't it count towards the English costs?

Because the Irish equivalents get paid a salary. No matter how many times they play for their country in a season. This is basic, basic stuff Martyn.

Sexton gets 700,000 Euros split by leinster and the IRFU. (Plus his sugar daddy bonus payments). He gets that whether he plays zero times for Ireland or 12 times for Ireland.

You're not doing well today.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:23 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Welsh regions have a budget in and around the £5 million mark, varying slightly on each region.
[/quote]

Scarlets spent £7.5m on wages and salaries last season for their staff, does that include the NDC costs I wonder?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:24 pm

Let’s face it, the article is pretty poor, in line with a lot of Rugby Pass articles which are invariably badly written rehashes of other media stories and flaky assumptions. No factual evidence provided for wage bills for Irish teams. The notion that Connacht has a €7.85m player wage bill is laughable given the quality and status of their squad.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:35 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Except you want to count the Irish equivalent towards the provinces, why shouldn't it count towards the English costs?

Because the Irish equivalents get paid a salary. No matter how many times they play for their country in a season. This is basic, basic stuff Martyn.

Sexton gets 700,000 Euros split by leinster and the IRFU. (Plus his sugar daddy bonus payments). He gets that whether he plays zero times for Ireland or 12 times for Ireland.

You're not doing well today.

No he doesn’t.
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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:39 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Except you want to count the Irish equivalent towards the provinces, why shouldn't it count towards the English costs?

Because the Irish equivalents get paid a salary. No matter how many times they play for their country in a season. This is basic, basic stuff Martyn.

Sexton gets 700,000 Euros split by leinster and the IRFU. (Plus his sugar daddy bonus payments). He gets that whether he plays zero times for Ireland or 12 times for Ireland.

You're not doing well today.

They get paid whether they pay for their provinces too as do the English players who get a base amount for image rights etc as do the Irish players

Now lets pick apart your claims about Sextons figure, if his his split between the two, surely that means Ulsters is and it's included in the £5.1m figure in their report making the £7m claim bs?

As for the sugar daddy payment, he gets endorsements as a lot of players do, why the snide sugar daddy comment?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:40 pm

I just can't believe that someone has posted what looks like Bakebook clickbait as a factual article. It gave me a chuckle anyway.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 1:54 pm

Snarl, snarl, backbite, snap....

I'm just scanning across the usual snaps and bites.... so does the WRU pay money for player in Wales (contribute, as it were?) ...and if so, is that added to the in-and-around mark?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 2:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:Snarl, snarl, backbite, snap....

I'm just scanning across the usual snaps and bites.... so does the WRU pay money for player in Wales (contribute, as it were?) ...and if so, is that added to the in-and-around mark?

Yes. No. Possibly.

If today’s Tuesday, then definitely not.
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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 3:06 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Except you want to count the Irish equivalent towards the provinces, why shouldn't it count towards the English costs?

Because the Irish equivalents get paid a salary. No matter how many times they play for their country in a season. This is basic, basic stuff Martyn.

Sexton gets 700,000 Euros split by leinster and the IRFU. (Plus his sugar daddy bonus payments). He gets that whether he plays zero times for Ireland or 12 times for Ireland.

You're not doing well today.

They get paid whether they pay for their provinces too as do the English players who get a base amount for image rights etc as do the Irish players

Now lets pick apart your claims about Sextons figure, if his his split between the two, surely that means Ulsters is and it's included in the £5.1m figure in their report making the £7m claim bs?

As for the sugar daddy payment, he gets endorsements as a lot of players do, why the snide sugar daddy comment?

Because it's paid to him by a rich sugar daddy.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 3:11 pm

Aren't private clubs actually owned by rich sugar daddies? Thought that was the ideal?

So IRFU borrowing from the good practices of Leagues all over de woyld. Very excellent Union indeed. So forward thinking.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 3:13 pm

SecretFly wrote:Aren't private clubs actually owned by rich sugar daddies?  Thought that was the ideal?  

So IRFU borrowing from the good practices of Leagues all over de woyld.  Very excellent Union indeed.  So forward thinking.

OK

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 3:15 pm

Are the additional wru payments to players included in this then rugby fan?why is the value so low for me Welsh players who aren't counted as the superstars?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 3:58 pm

If we get an answer to that one, 7, we'll have solved the conundrum of this Interesting Article About Wage Spend.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 4:33 pm

Yeah don't think he wants to acknowledge that.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 6:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah don't think he wants to acknowledge that.

Who's he?

If you want to challenge what's in the article, maybe respond on it or tweet them or something. I didn't write it.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 7:07 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Except you want to count the Irish equivalent towards the provinces, why shouldn't it count towards the English costs?

Because the Irish equivalents get paid a salary. No matter how many times they play for their country in a season. This is basic, basic stuff Martyn.

Sexton gets 700,000 Euros split by leinster and the IRFU. (Plus his sugar daddy bonus payments). He gets that whether he plays zero times for Ireland or 12 times for Ireland.

You're not doing well today.

They get paid whether they pay for their provinces too as do the English players who get a base amount for image rights etc as do the Irish players

Now lets pick apart your claims about Sextons figure, if his his split between the two, surely that means Ulsters is and it's included in the £5.1m figure in their report making the £7m claim bs?

As for the sugar daddy payment, he gets endorsements as a lot of players do, why the snide sugar daddy comment?

Because it's paid to him by a rich sugar daddy.

Pretty sure it's paid to him by a company actually but can add that to the list of things you are wrong about, I notice you didn't challenge the rest I wonder why

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by marty2086 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 7:07 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah don't think he wants to acknowledge that.

Who's he?

If you want to challenge what's in the article, maybe respond on it or tweet them or something. I didn't write it.

So just ignore your editorial comments?

Really puts in perspective, how tough it is for some Pro14 teams to keep up with others in terms of paying for their squads, and being able to pay for quality overseas players.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 7:27 pm

Hey if you don't want to answer just sa rugby fan. Sound like you agree with other points that it's a worthless article without the writer being clear what they are counting etc.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 9:27 pm

Seems a great article to me.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 9:32 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Seems a great article to me.

Yeh great article, if you fundamentally struggle with mathematics and believe that Connacht have a wage bill of 7 mil comparable to Saracens and Leinster.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 9:58 pm

So from the article rugby fan can you answer my question above?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 10:12 pm

Maybe 7 mill is an average for all 4 Provinces, making Munster and Leinster wage bill, well.. off the chart.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 10:44 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Maybe 7 mill is an average for all 4 Provinces, making Munster and Leinster wage bill, well.. off the chart.

What has been pointed out is that the 7mil has been pulled out of thin air with zero of anything in the way of sources to back it up. It's piss poor journalism. I would be astonished if Munster are anything close to 7 mil on wages looking at their squad, it is nowhere near on a par with Leinster's or the French teams.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 9:22 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So from the article rugby fan can you answer my question above?

I would guess the WRU payments are not included. But I have no idea, I didn't write the article.

Those payments amount to approx £1.7m across the 4 pro sides I believe. And are to be scrapped imminently.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 9:33 am

So as others have said bit of a pointless article as ot s not clearly stating what is being compared. It's more to make out the Welsh clubs are hard done.by.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by RugbyFan100 on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 10:12 am

No 7&1/2 wrote: It's more to make out the Welsh clubs are hard done.by.

I'm not sure that's RugbyPass' agenda, but nobody can stop you believing whatever you want to believe.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 10:48 am

So you acknowledge there's a lot of info missing from this. Why is it a great article in your opinion?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Brendan on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 10:53 am

To add to what has been pointed out already let's look at wages.

We all agree that Leinster players take home the most money as a squad for their rugby playing. Due to the fact that they have 15+ international players they have o pay higher wages for their second team because they play more games for Leinster than their 15 internationals. They have a great academy which helps with costs. Are we saying we want Leinster doing the old thing of failing in the league and great in Europe, I'm sure the other leagues won't care about that.

I am putting together an article about how competitive the leagues were for their last completed season. If you take and, draws and LBPs the Pro14 had 9/14 teams were competitive for over 75% of their games. So wages don't seem to affect competition.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by TJ on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 11:39 am

And what it also shows is something I keep banging on about. The Welsh are not at a financial disadvantage - its just rather than spreading the money they have widely they spend too much on the stars leaving not enough for the wider squad.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Don Alfonso on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 12:01 pm

Do Zebre have a higher wage bill than the Blues? Asking for a friend.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by TJ on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 12:02 pm

I would suspect fairly similar. I don't know for sure.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Don Alfonso on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 12:03 pm

Also, the title of this topic is misleading. Please remove "interesting" . Thanks in advance.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Don Alfonso on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 12:04 pm

Why would you suspect similar?

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by TJ on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 12:14 pm

From what I have seen about the amounts of money the various teams have. Edinburgh have only in the last couple of years been spending more than the italians. Blues spend is similar to Edinburghs so thats my best guess. Pro 14 teams ( dunno about the SA ones) allseem to have a player budget in the 4.5 - 6.5 million range and I think both Zebre and Blues will be towards the bottom of this.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

Post by Don Alfonso on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 12:25 pm

Last summer the Zebra team didn't get paid for two months. If really need to see some actual facts and numbers to be convinced they're similar.

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Re: Interesting article about wage spend

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