Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by Diggers on Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

Re Sterling, he’s got more PL assists than any English player in the last year, 3rd most of anyone. As well as a shedload of goals, what a poopie player he is!!
Could this be it for Jose, I certainly hope so.

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Post by beninho on Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:27 pm

I've got it, realist has been done for being inappropriate in the workplace. Probably had to pay out to keep it quiet. No way, he can keep his religious views and opinions on fat people to himself. Probably called someone a carpet sniffer or bible basher. I'd guess he has said much worse then telling soneone to not jump out the window because they would bounce back.up again.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:09 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:His phrase about the allegations being to the extent raised, makes me question tgat he is admiting things have happened and been covered up.  I'm of the view that just because someone isn't convicted in a court of law doesn't mean they haven't acted inappropriately.

People can make up their own views from what read.

You're right, it doesn't mean that they haven't acted inappropriately, but it doesn't mean they have either.

This whole #metoo is tarring people as being guilty before anything has been proven. Now, I don't care about Green, but this sets a dangerous precedent for being considered guilty as soon as an allegation is made.

The shop boycott is also ridiculous and unfair on the staff, where were people boycotting Topshop when BHS went down the pan?

You can make up your own view on Green if you like, but seeing as you have no evidence on which to base your view, you aren't being remotely rational.

Mac, just because false claims are rare, doesn't mean that you give every claim the benefit of the doubt. You have to treat these allegations as if you DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE TRUE. What you are suggesting is akin to saying that if you toss 10 heads in a row, then the next one is going to be heads because of the statistics. Every allegation has to be treated as if statistics for false claims do not exist and every allegation is independent of the one that has gone before it.

Also, the burden of proof is on the person making the allegation, not the other way around, and by Hain acting inappropriately on a 17th century outdated law really is putting himself above the law and due process. It's not Hain's decision to name someone in a case like this. You can't just convict someone because someone has made a claim.

Forget it's Green for a moment and that he's a loathesome man, imagine you it's on a charge (whether or not you've done it) would you like to be treated as if you're guilty in this kangaroo court world before anything has even been established? Of course you wouldn't. So for once in your life, stop being a hypocrite.
You can forget that line of rational thinking. Tried that and he doesn't get it.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:14 pm

beninho wrote:The Telegraph has 5 people who have made allegations and been paid to keep quiet about them.

Us normal people are never going to get all the facts about every incident reported in the press, I would like to think I like to think I have tge brainpower to read and see what is claimed and base my own.opinions in it. I am not a court of law.

I also have no issues with people making allegations if they feel something inappropriate has happened to them.
Oh, for Heaven's sake! You or I have no idea if the claims are based on actual illegal activity or whether Green might simply find them embarrassing. There may be no legal case to actually answer.

If you have no issues with people making public allegations, with no proof whatsoever and that might financially or otherwise ruin someone, you're as bad as Mac. If they 'feel' something inappropriate has happened to them?? Jesus wept...
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:18 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:If, like Super, I was going to be faux offended by recent news, I’d be far more faux offended on behalf of the people unlawfully made to take DNA tests. Strikes me as a far greater breach in of justice.
Quite right that we should find enforced DNA testing as abhorrent, but that doesn't take away from the fact that what that conceited twerp, Hain, has done is fundamentally undermining the law that we've built our society on for the last thousand years or so.

Unless you believe  that this is the best way for  Parliamentary Privilege to be exercise. It’s part of the same system of rules you are saying are being broken. Again, the protection Greene created for himself is not in practice free to all (legal aid cuts have destroyed the courts as a means of redress for most people), so it’s hardly a fair system in the first place.
Nice try, but no. Hain has abused it. It's an archaic part of our laws, but one that's potentially valuable and should be kept. The fact that Hain's too thick and arrogant to see that he shouldn't have done this is potentially a big problem. That privilege should come nowhere near being abused, less that creates a problem with its validity. That conceited twit should be given whatever rocket that can be delivered.
Also, I'm sorry, but just because having wealth means one can employ good lawyers/Barristers isn't a reason to trash our due process.

You think it’s abuse, Ive  seen it praised and criticised, appears to be a moot point. If you have to remortgage your house to get an NDA, then sorry, it’s not part of any normal judicial system, so personally, I don’t give a toss about it. It falls into the tax evasion grey area, it might be legal,  but it’s not a level playing field.
An NDA is a piece of paper laying out a legally agreed outcome. It's not expensive as of right as far as I can see. I'm sure any old solicitor could draft one for a small fee. I doubt re-mortgaging one's house is going to come into it.


Last edited by navyblueshorts on Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:18 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:
Peter Hain just happens to be the government and global advisor for the law company used by the Daily Telegraph
Oh, now there's a thing...
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:20 pm

beninho wrote:No, this is only about Phillip Green. That what I'm talking about, thats what this case is about. I've read allegations made, I find sone of the things said to be inappropriate. There is evidence, its been reported in the papers. If you don't believe what is said, then fine.

Do you think its normal to pay seven figure sums to people to keep them quiet because they've made allegations?
Laugh
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:32 pm

A thoughtful take on it:

The Independent's Editorial on Hain's use of Parliamentary Privilege to out Green
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Post by beninho on Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:09 am

Does anyone think asking a female member of staff if she has been a bad girl and needs spanking is appropriate in the workplace? Saying someone is so fat they would bounce back after falling out of a window?

Thats whats been reported as sonething thats been said. Im not debating the rights and wrongs of hain, I don't like it. I do not like using the courts to gag the press either.

All the talk of guilt and proof is over the top, its not a criminal case.

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Post by Diggers on Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:34 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:If, like Super, I was going to be faux offended by recent news, I’d be far more faux offended on behalf of the people unlawfully made to take DNA tests. Strikes me as a far greater breach in of justice.
Quite right that we should find enforced DNA testing as abhorrent, but that doesn't take away from the fact that what that conceited twerp, Hain, has done is fundamentally undermining the law that we've built our society on for the last thousand years or so.

Unless you believe  that this is the best way for  Parliamentary Privilege to be exercise. It’s part of the same system of rules you are saying are being broken. Again, the protection Greene created for himself is not in practice free to all (legal aid cuts have destroyed the courts as a means of redress for most people), so it’s hardly a fair system in the first place.
Nice try, but no. Hain has abused it. It's an archaic part of our laws, but one that's potentially valuable and should be kept. The fact that Hain's too thick and arrogant to see that he shouldn't have done this is potentially a big problem. That privilege should come nowhere near being abused, less that creates a problem with its validity. That conceited twit should be given whatever rocket that can be delivered.
Also, I'm sorry, but just because having wealth means one can employ good lawyers/Barristers isn't a reason to trash our due process.

You think it’s abuse, Ive  seen it praised and criticised, appears to be a moot point. If you have to remortgage your house to get an NDA, then sorry, it’s not part of any normal judicial system, so personally, I don’t give a toss about it. It falls into the tax evasion grey area, it might be legal,  but it’s not a level playing field.
An NDA is a piece of paper laying out a legally agreed outcome. It's not expensive as of right as far as I can see. I'm sure any old solicitor could draft one for a small fee. I doubt re-mortgaging one's house is going to come into it.

And what about going to court to see an injunction? Is that cheap, available to all? Green spent half a million on that. Not a level playing field.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:57 am

beninho wrote:Does anyone think asking a female member of staff if she has been a bad girl and needs spanking is appropriate in the workplace? Saying someone is so fat they would bounce back after falling out of a window?

Thats whats been reported as sonething thats been said. Im not debating the rights and wrongs of hain, I don't like it. I do not like using the courts to gag the press either.

All the talk of guilt and proof is over the top, its not a criminal case.
You have no idea if any of that actually occurred. Why don't you, just maybe, wait until you actually have something to base an opinion on other than what you already think of Green etc?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:59 am

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:If, like Super, I was going to be faux offended by recent news, I’d be far more faux offended on behalf of the people unlawfully made to take DNA tests. Strikes me as a far greater breach in of justice.
Quite right that we should find enforced DNA testing as abhorrent, but that doesn't take away from the fact that what that conceited twerp, Hain, has done is fundamentally undermining the law that we've built our society on for the last thousand years or so.

Unless you believe  that this is the best way for  Parliamentary Privilege to be exercise. It’s part of the same system of rules you are saying are being broken. Again, the protection Greene created for himself is not in practice free to all (legal aid cuts have destroyed the courts as a means of redress for most people), so it’s hardly a fair system in the first place.
Nice try, but no. Hain has abused it. It's an archaic part of our laws, but one that's potentially valuable and should be kept. The fact that Hain's too thick and arrogant to see that he shouldn't have done this is potentially a big problem. That privilege should come nowhere near being abused, less that creates a problem with its validity. That conceited twit should be given whatever rocket that can be delivered.
Also, I'm sorry, but just because having wealth means one can employ good lawyers/Barristers isn't a reason to trash our due process.

You think it’s abuse, Ive  seen it praised and criticised, appears to be a moot point. If you have to remortgage your house to get an NDA, then sorry, it’s not part of any normal judicial system, so personally, I don’t give a toss about it. It falls into the tax evasion grey area, it might be legal,  but it’s not a level playing field.
An NDA is a piece of paper laying out a legally agreed outcome. It's not expensive as of right as far as I can see. I'm sure any old solicitor could draft one for a small fee. I doubt re-mortgaging one's house is going to come into it.

And what about going to court to see an injunction? Is that cheap, available to all? Green spent half a million on that. Not a level playing field.
I have no idea Digs. I presume some of the reported cost is the no doubt very expensive lawyers/Barristers that Green employs. I suspect I could request an injunction for somewhat less. I take your point though on access to the full set of legal tools for everyone. However you cut that though, Hain's act is not justifiable.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:01 am

beninho wrote:Does anyone think asking a female member of staff if she has been a bad girl and needs spanking is appropriate in the workplace? Saying someone is so fat they would bounce back after falling out of a window?

Thats whats been reported as sonething thats been said. Im not debating the rights and wrongs of hain, I don't like it. I do not like using the courts to gag the press either.

All the talk of guilt and proof is over the top, its not a criminal case.
Another thing: even if not criminal now, it could easily become so and I'm not talking about charges against Hain or Green.
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Post by beninho on Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:37 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Does anyone think asking a female member of staff if she has been a bad girl and needs spanking is appropriate in the workplace? Saying someone is so fat they would bounce back after falling out of a window?

Thats whats been reported as sonething thats been said. Im not debating the rights and wrongs of hain, I don't like it. I do not like using the courts to gag the press either.

All the talk of guilt and proof is over the top, its not a criminal case.
You have no idea if any of that actually occurred. Why don't you, just maybe, wait until you actually have something to base an opinion on other than what you already think of Green etc?

Seems like there is enough to form an.opinion from the newspaper reports, non disclosure agreements and court injuntions taken all the way to the court of appeal, even his statement. It would indicate to me that he has acted inappropriately at some point. Not necessarily illegal.

if you can't form an opinion or think people are lying thats you decision. I have no issues with that, though I'd respectively adk you not to tell me what to think or do.

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Post by Diggers on Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:56 am

Hopefully, what will come out of this is that NDA’s were not designed for the sort of purposes used by Green, they just shouldn’t exist, fine for some specific purposes but not to protect from potential allegations.
In balance, as the case was going to court in January, I’m not sure Hain needed to speak out, but I don’t feel the fact he did was wrong in itself. The house itself is clearly split on it, plenty of support and criticism, so there is no clear cut answer as to whether it was the wrong use of privilege.

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Post by Be_the_ball on Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:48 am

Sorry to hear about Glenn Hoddle, hope he makes a full and speedy recovery. A great footballer in his day.

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Post by Diggers on Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:53 am

Phenomenal footballer and a pretty good manager, good pundit too. Interesting I’d always thought he’d be a bit arrogant but heard so many people today say what a nice bloke he is.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:12 am

Diggers wrote:Hopefully, what will come out of this is that NDA’s were not designed for the sort of purposes used by Green, they just shouldn’t exist, fine for some specific purposes but not to protect from potential allegations.
In balance, as the case was going to court in January, I’m not sure Hain needed to speak out, but I don’t feel the fact he did was wrong in itself. The house itself is clearly split on it, plenty of support and criticism, so there is no clear cut answer as to whether it was the wrong use of privilege.
**** the house. The legal people (you know, those that know what they're talking about) are pretty unanimous in saying that what Hain did was deplorable.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:15 am

beninho wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Does anyone think asking a female member of staff if she has been a bad girl and needs spanking is appropriate in the workplace? Saying someone is so fat they would bounce back after falling out of a window?

Thats whats been reported as sonething thats been said. Im not debating the rights and wrongs of hain, I don't like it. I do not like using the courts to gag the press either.

All the talk of guilt and proof is over the top, its not a criminal case.
You have no idea if any of that actually occurred. Why don't you, just maybe, wait until you actually have something to base an opinion on other than what you already think of Green etc?

Seems like there is enough to form an.opinion from the newspaper reports, non disclosure agreements and court injuntions taken all the way to the court of appeal, even his statement. It would indicate to me that he has acted inappropriately at some point. Not necessarily illegal.

if you can't form an opinion or think people are lying thats you decision. I have no issues with that, though I'd respectively adk you not to tell me what to think or do.
There's still injunctions covering UK newspaper reporting on this. Somehow you have access to an inside line?? Think/believe what you like. I'm not stopping you or telling you what to think. I can and will tell you, however, that what you're saying re. this particular issue is utterly wrong.
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Post by beninho on Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:32 am

Theres an article in the guardian, im not claiming to have an inside line, its in the news.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/26/revealed-philip-green-paid-seven-figure-sums-to-silence-abuse-claims

I see his excuse is "banter". Yep, that will work..

I find it hard to see why anyone finds it hard to not think there may be sone truth in the claims made.

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Post by beninho on Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:54 pm

That helicopter crash in Leicester is horrendous. Terrible tragedy. He seems to be one of the most loved owners in the premier league.

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Post by Diggers on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:20 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:Hopefully, what will come out of this is that NDA’s were not designed for the sort of purposes used by Green, they just shouldn’t exist, fine for some specific purposes but not to protect from potential allegations.
In balance, as the case was going to court in January, I’m not sure Hain needed to speak out, but I don’t feel the fact he did was wrong in itself. The house itself is clearly split on it, plenty of support and criticism, so there is no clear cut answer as to whether it was the wrong use of privilege.
**** the house. The legal people (you know, those that know what they're talking about) are pretty unanimous in saying that what Hain did was deplorable.

**** the house that makes the laws you’re so desperate to protect? Whether you like it or not, the house is part of the process. Anna Soubry agreed pretty much with my thoughts on it, what was her former job...a barrister.
I commend your belief in the protection of the individual, they’ve always been consistent (unlike Supers faux offence) but the simple fact is that an injunction is now purely a legal loophole for the rich, therefore not fit for purpose, so the use of another loophole (but equally legal) like privilege, is to many acceptable.

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Post by Diggers on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:51 pm

I wonder how Greens banter goes...
“Alright mate, how’s your pension looking today?”
He’s quite happy to use the press (well, the Mail) to put his side of the story out there today.

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Post by dynamark on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:14 pm

Re LCFC helicopter crash that car park area is a full car park an hour before the accident -extra land bought recently by the club.I presume the copter was not allowed to land in/leave the stadium until the crowd has pretty much cleared after the match for safety reasons which has turned out to be a wise decision. As well as the chairman the director of football also likely to be aboard.

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Post by McLaren on Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:34 pm

Be_the_ball wrote:Sorry to hear about Glenn Hoddle, hope he makes a full and speedy recovery. A great footballer in his day.


Not sure what it means if this leaves him disabled.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:07 am

Mac,
What the hell does that mean? Why don't you reconsider this post??

No reason that I've read why he shouldn't make a full recovery. Think I saw his first ever goal for Spurs. Long time ago. Though so long ago that I thought it was against Leicester, not Stoke (as wiki suggests). Oh well, Shilton anyway.

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Post by super_realist on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:13 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
What the hell does that mean? Why don't you reconsider this post??

No reason that I've read why he shouldn't make a full recovery. Think I saw his first ever goal for Spurs. Long time ago. Though so long ago that I thought it was against Leicester, not Stoke (as wiki suggests). Oh well, Shilton anyway.

Kwini, it stems back to the time when Hoddle claimed that disabled people deserved their position because of what they'd done in prior lives.

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Post by Davie on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:52 pm

There was always going to be one low-life brought that up at such an inappropriate time. I might have known it would be Mac Rolling Eyes

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Post by McLaren on Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:52 pm

Glad I didn't disappoint you. Very Happy
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Post by Diggers on Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:44 pm

super_realist wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
What the hell does that mean? Why don't you reconsider this post??

No reason that I've read why he shouldn't make a full recovery. Think I saw his first ever goal for Spurs. Long time ago. Though so long ago that I thought it was against Leicester, not Stoke (as wiki suggests). Oh well, Shilton anyway.

Kwini, it stems back to the time when Hoddle claimed that disabled people deserved their position because of what they'd done in prior lives.

Actually, bearing in mind recent discussions about the sanctity of innocent until proven guilty, Hoddle has always denied the quote in question.

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Post by super_realist on Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:07 am

Diggers wrote:
super_realist wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
What the hell does that mean? Why don't you reconsider this post??

No reason that I've read why he shouldn't make a full recovery. Think I saw his first ever goal for Spurs. Long time ago. Though so long ago that I thought it was against Leicester, not Stoke (as wiki suggests). Oh well, Shilton anyway.

Kwini, it stems back to the time when Hoddle claimed that disabled people deserved their position because of what they'd done in prior lives.

Actually, bearing in mind recent discussions about the sanctity of innocent until proven guilty, Hoddle has always denied the quote in question.

He did have a lot of crackpot ideas for sure though even if he didn't say that, Eileen Drewery and her laughable "faith healing" for instance parodied correctly in footballer style by Ray Parlour when he sat in the seat in front of her and when she put her hands on his shoulders simply said "just a little bit off the side love".

Hoddle was a great player, but I'll always hold his lack of inclusion for Le Tissier to be a black mark (sorry snowflakes) in his career.

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Post by McLaren on Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:53 am

Published at the time in the Independent, this is what he said to the journalist "enthusiastically and on the record".

Hoddle wrote:You and I have been physically given two hands and two legs and a half-decent brain. Some people have not been born like that for a reason.

The karma is working from another lifetime. I have nothing to hide about that. It is not only people with disabilities. What you sow, you have to reap. You have to look at things that happened in your life and ask why. It comes around.


And earlier live on bbc radio 5 live

Hoddle wrote:I think we make mistakes when we are down here and our spirit has to come back and learn. That's why there is an injustice in the world, why there are certain people born into the world with terrible physical problems.

His response was not a denial of making the comments but that they were "misconstrued".


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/hoddle-may-have-to-pay-the-price-for-his-verbal-sin-1067976.html

Also reported on here https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/30/newsstory.sport7 (Agian he didn't deny making the comments just that they were 'misinterpreted' and 'taken out of context')


Although oddly it seems he was a born again christian so not sure how the reincarnation stuff fits into that, what with going to heaven, the resurrection of jesus and the rapture to name a few bits of christian theology that require you are not reincarnated.


Anyway, I am sure he has moved on from those silly beliefs and by all accounts is now a top bloke.


Super

I actually made the initial comment because I was disappointed to see that you hadn't got there already.  Your game is slipping.
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Post by raycastleunited on Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:05 am

If I recall correctly, Hoddle's response was: "I didn't say them things."

Definitely a denial, although not grammatically correct, so who knows.

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Post by pedro on Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:22 am

Hope Hoddle is in a better condition than the Wembley pitch.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:08 am

Not dissimilar to the pitches Glenn Hoddle used to play on . . . . . except the alien markings.

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Post by McLaren on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:43 pm

Super

Have you tried this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45735061
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Post by super_realist on Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:43 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Have you tried this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45735061

Really Mac, you must stop acting as if you are some sort of lothario. I dread to think the standard of this supposed girlfriend you have as you're hardly much of a catch.

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Post by beninho on Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:45 pm

Realist, are you married or are you in any sort of relationship, with male or female?

Maclaren, same question.

Have you ever met each other?

Are you the same person?

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Post by McLaren on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:31 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

Have you tried this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45735061

Really Mac, you must stop acting as if you are some sort of lothario. I dread to think the standard of this supposed girlfriend you have as you're hardly much of a catch.

As someone ensconced in the world of rational debate I am surprised you think my mockery of your love life says anything about my own.
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Post by McLaren on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:23 pm

Lennon has been watching too many Rivaldo videos.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/46052997

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:42 am

Good lord, There's an Aussie playing the Queensland Open who's opened 48 - 53 = 101, +30. 17 strokes adrift of the hapless guy in next to last.
Name is Tom Major, though probably Tom Private by now.

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Post by super_realist on Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:02 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

Have you tried this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45735061

Really Mac, you must stop acting as if you are some sort of lothario. I dread to think the standard of this supposed girlfriend you have as you're hardly much of a catch.

As someone ensconced in the world of rational debate I am surprised you think my mockery of your love life says anything about my own.

Keep pumping your munter Mac and leave me out of it.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:50 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Good lord, There's an Aussie playing the Queensland Open who's opened 48 - 53 = 101, +30. 17 strokes adrift of the hapless guy in next to last.
Name is Tom Major, though probably Tom Private by now.

+30? Jeez, I clocked a 13 (thirteen) on a par 4 last time out and still finished +14.

Did he accidentally play the wrong course? I'm sure he was on the start sheet for the South course for a matchplay with Kafelnikov

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Post by beninho on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:26 pm

That lady who dressed her kid as a lookie lookie man. It's quite funny, but its clearly very wrong. Anyone going to challenge thats its not wrong or a bit offensive?

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Post by McLaren on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:57 pm

But why a Halloween costume?
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Post by McLaren on Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:00 am

Update on Lennon story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46073396

He is now claiming he was on the end of racism not sectarianism. Super can you clarify whether or Catholicism is a race or not?
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Post by super_realist on Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:44 am

Of course it isn't Mac, if you can convert to it, how can it be considered a race to be racist against? Same as it isn't racist to have a go at Islam, Judaism, Hinduism etc. At best, it's being prejudiced against someone for believing a stupid, and as religions go, a pretty disgusting one.

There's also no such thing as the Irish race, so you can't be racist against the Irish either, and despite the eyes being close together, there's no Celtic DNA either.

Very much doubt any of those Hearts fans (and Rangers fans) who give him stick are even religious. Lennon is very much in the Terry, Cole, Barton mould of scumbag footballers, there's a lot of things he should be criticise him for long before you get to his Norn Irn bigoted background.

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Post by beninho on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:04 am

Because I'm guessing realist is an expert on all legal matters, can you point out, legally, why being Irish, is not considered under the equality act as a race? Would you refuse to employ someone because of their irishness and expect to win a court tribunal in the claim it isn't a race so they cant be racially discriminated?


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Post by pedro on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:11 am

Well, racism is just a subset of discrimination.

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Post by super_realist on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:12 am

Of course I wouldn't refuse to employ someone because they are Irish. I've got Oirish antecedence myself, but that doesn't mean there is an Irish race, or that you can be racist against Catholics. You can't.

Race refers to ethnicity, and there is no Irish ethnicity, just as there isn't Libyan or Maltese ethnicity. Discrimination against a country would be xenophobia, not racism. The Irish are the same "race" as the majority of the rest of the British people, and Northern Irish are British anyway, so could I even be xenophobic against Norn Irn, when they are as British as I am?

I wouldn't refuse to employ anyone on the basis of where they come from, so there wouldn't be a court case anyway. I work in one of the most cosmopolitan of industries where there are dozens of different nationalities, and the workplace is all the better for it, thank goodness I don't work with just British people.

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Post by beninho on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:30 am

Look up the description of race in the equality act. Covers nationality. So someone can be discriminated against due to nationality which comes under race.


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