World Player of the Year 2018 - UPDATED

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 3:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Nominees Announced:

Beauden Barrett
Jonathan Sexton
Malcolm Marx
Faf de Klerk
Reiko Ioane

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/johnny-sexton-award-400031

Surprised to see Barrett make the list but all others not really unexpected. Sexton's to lose?

Previous article:

Young Player of the Year Nominees:

https://www.world.rugby/news/374327
Jordan Larmour (Ireland)
APHIWE DYANTYI (SOUTH AFRICA)
KARL TU’INUKUAFE (NEW ZEALAND)


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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 1:03 pm

Have any of the shortlist taken the game to another level?
How on earth is this X factor (that props don't have) measured?
How did 'Steady' (no x) Sexton make it to the short list?

World rugby are to be applauded for this award because the result makes the same sense whether the chattering masses know anything about rugby or not.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 4:51 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Have any of the shortlist taken the game to another level?
How on earth is this X factor (that props don't have) measured?
How did 'Steady' (no x) Sexton make it to the short list?

World rugby are to be applauded for this award because the result makes the same sense whether the chattering masses know anything about rugby or not.

Yes, Barrett, no one has ever played the 10 role as he has. 22 tries in 32 tests being one, and not the only, indicator.

Our experts on 1014, one who is Irish, said exactly that. Barrett has taken the 10 role to a completely new level. It is also why Barrett keeps getting picked. There is possibly no greater x factor player, ever.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 5:08 pm

Taylorman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Have any of the shortlist taken the game to another level?
How on earth is this X factor (that props don't have) measured?
How did 'Steady' (no x) Sexton make it to the short list?

World rugby are to be applauded for this award because the result makes the same sense whether the chattering masses know anything about rugby or not.

Yes, Barrett, no one has ever played the 10 role as he has. 22 tries in 32 tests being one, and not the only, indicator.

Our experts on 1014, one who is Irish, said exactly that. Barrett has taken the 10 role to a completely new level. It is also why Barrett keeps getting picked. There is possibly no greater x factor player, ever.

They have also made similar compliments re Furlong and the role of a tight head prop.

There is no doubt he is a great try scorer but his tries do paper over his weaknesses as a 10. The vast majority of his tries have come in the rugby championship where defences are notoriously weaker and games more open.

If you look at his record v NH sides it isn't as impressive. O tries v England 0 v the Lions 1 v Ireland (11 games total). By contrast almost half of his 22 tries have come v Australia (15games)

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 5:25 pm

Stephen Jones in the ST today had an article titled "This All Blacks side is the greatest ever to grace the game". His point is that collective greatness does not need individual brilliance. He says for a World XV that "Beauden Barrett at fly-half has his days of genius and would contend". His try scoring is undoubtedly impressive but that is in the context of the side he plays in. Has he really more X factor than Carter or indeed Spencer?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 5:30 pm

People love reading Stephen Jones articles you got to admit

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 5:32 pm

Barrett is class. Just not sure fly half is his best position. Much like Farrell for England he plays in a position to benefit the team rather than himself.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 5:35 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Stephen Jones in the ST today had an article titled "This All Blacks side is the greatest ever to grace the game". His point is that collective greatness does not need individual brilliance. He says for a World XV that "Beauden Barrett at fly-half has his days of genius and would contend". His try scoring is undoubtedly impressive but that is in the context of the side he plays in. Has he really more X factor than Carter or indeed Spencer?

Stephen Jones views on NZ mean jack. Hes all over the place, almost szchizophrenic. One week hes rubbishing them the next hes found his nirvana. You dont have to get others opinions on Barrett, just watch his best plays. If you can name a player that does what he does with as much regularity then Id like to know who it is. That defines x factor for me. Some tries no one else has or could have scored.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 5:51 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Have any of the shortlist taken the game to another level?
How on earth is this X factor (that props don't have) measured?
How did 'Steady' (no x) Sexton make it to the short list?

World rugby are to be applauded for this award because the result makes the same sense whether the chattering masses know anything about rugby or not.

Yes, Barrett, no one has ever played the 10 role as he has. 22 tries in 32 tests being one, and not the only, indicator.

Our experts on 1014, one who is Irish, said exactly that. Barrett has taken the 10 role to a completely new level. It is also why Barrett keeps getting picked. There is possibly no greater x factor player, ever.

They have also made similar compliments re Furlong and the role of a tight head prop.

There is no doubt he is a great try scorer but his tries do paper over his weaknesses as a 10. The vast majority of his tries have come in the rugby championship where defences are notoriously weaker and games more open.

If you look at his record v NH sides it isn't as impressive. O tries v England 0 v the Lions 1 v Ireland (11 games total). By contrast almost half of his 22 tries have come v Australia (15games)

If youre saying props running with the ball is x factor then youd be stretching. Our props have it on their job description so how Furlong has redefined the role needs more convincing. He may be the worlds best tighthead, but that doesnt mean he has either x factor nor role redefining qualities. Though difficult to do I guess within the scope of the props role.

Barrett simply plays most of his tests versus SH sides. Youre really stretching using England as an example. Hes never started v England, last played them as a sub in 2014 when Carter and Cruden were primarily starters so cant be expected to have a high rate by playing less than half matches.

Same with Ireland, two starts, one try. 50 %.
50% vs France and Wales.

At start hes around 50% with just about every country hes played so instead of looking for distorted irrelevant exceptions how about accept that the try scoring rate at start of 50% vs all comers is a phenomenan. Only the best AB wingers get near that ratio. You wont find any other player in the amateur or pro era thats not a wing with that rate. And thats not the sole reason for his x factor abilities. His sheer speed off the mark is another.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 5:56 pm

His try scoring stats drop significantly against the top NH sides thats just a fact Taylorman. I mean Murray has a better try scoring ratio against NZ than Barrett does against Ireland and yet you dont rate Murray as a threat.

10 tries in 15 games v Oz is a bit of a joke really.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 6:08 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:His try scoring stats drop significantly against the top NH sides thats just a fact Taylorman. I mean Murray has a better try scoring ratio against NZ than Barrett does against Ireland and yet you dont rate Murray as a threat.

Not as a starter he doesnt. He has one from two. Murray has 4 from 9.

How many trues does Murray have as a non starter. Ill tell you, none, zip.

His stat is also an outlier. Murray has nothing like it that percentage vs any other sides. Barretts 50% is a general across all.

Desperate stats arent a good look. Youre tredding water.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 6:13 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:His try scoring stats drop significantly against the top NH sides thats just a fact Taylorman. I mean Murray has a better try scoring ratio against NZ than Barrett does against Ireland and yet you dont rate Murray as a threat.

Not as a starter he doesnt. He has one from two. Murray has 4 from 9.

How many trues does Murray have as a non starter. Ill tell you, none, zip.

His stat is also an outlier. Murray has nothing like it that percentage vs any other sides. Barretts 50% is a general across all.

Desperate stats arent a good look. Youre tredding water.

Hang on you rubbished Jordan Larmour for scoring 0 tries in 6 games as a sub each time. First test start and he gets a hattrick.  You cant have it every way.

Barrett has 0 from 3 games v the Lions 1 in 4 games v Ireland. Not seeing 50% in the biggest games at all. Maybe in the Bledisloe schmuck but again its not the Bledisloe player of the year its world player of the year.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 6:21 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:His try scoring stats drop significantly against the top NH sides thats just a fact Taylorman. I mean Murray has a better try scoring ratio against NZ than Barrett does against Ireland and yet you dont rate Murray as a threat.

Not as a starter he doesnt. He has one from two. Murray has 4 from 9.

How many trues does Murray have as a non starter. Ill tell you, none, zip.

His stat is also an outlier. Murray has nothing like it that percentage vs any other sides. Barretts 50% is a general across all.

Desperate stats arent a good look. Youre tredding water.

Hang on you rubbished Jordan Larmour for scoring 0 tries in 6 games as a sub each time. First test start and he gets a hattrick.  

Barrett has 0 from 3 games v the Lions 1 in 4 games v Ireland. Not seeing 50% in the biggest games at all. Maybe in the Bledisloe schmuck but again its not the Bledisloe player of the year its world player of the year.

Geez youre embarrassing yourself. One, I didnt know this was Larmours first start. You could have mentioned that. So getting world breakthrough player of the year without starting is I guess impressive, especially without even scoring a try, odd almost.

He gets three in a thrashing vs Italy. Whats your point there? Hes now the greatest fullback of all time. Cmon guns, this is beneath even you.

That you cant even recognise a good stat from a not so good one means its pointless discussing things with you. how many tries did Ireland get vs Oz if theyre so easy? Murray?

Seven starts, no tries. And 10 from 15 starts is rubbish, yet 0 from 7 isnt. Okay then.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 6:23 pm

Im not here to do the research for you Taylorman.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 6:26 pm

Someone needs to.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 6:56 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Im not here to do the research for you Taylorman.

Obviously, because Im the only one doing it it seems. Its the analysis that youre doing even more poorly.
Mind you, reflects the state of the sides we follow I guess.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 6:58 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Someone needs to.

Dont worry, you dont need to, youre 7 and a half after all thumbsup

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 7:04 pm

That doesn't make sense.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 7:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:That doesn't make sense.

Yes apologies, no more big words next time I promise, oops too late.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 7:53 pm

Who'da thought a chat about five players could be so complicated.

Why yis always gotta get over complicated in things?

Just choose a fecking player, damn it!

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 7:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:Who'da thought a chat about five players could be so complicated.

Why yis always gotta get over complicated in things?

Just choose a fecking player, damn it!

Sexton thumbsup

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 8:02 pm

Your sentence made no sense not the words Taylor.

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Post by Biltong on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 8:14 pm

Who cares about the player of the year?

It is just an award guven to a player based on the opinions and perceptions of a handful of people
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Post by SecretFly on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 8:17 pm

Biltong wrote:Who cares about the player of the year?

It is just an award guven to a player based on the opinions and perceptions of a handful of people

How dare you! My opinion is a religious experience! It's essential!

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 10:42 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Biltong wrote:Who cares about the player of the year?

It is just an award guven to a player based on the opinions and perceptions of a handful of people

How dare you!  My opinion is a religious experience!  It's essential!

Start praying its Sexton then, though somehow I dont think you'll have to. Can see some awards going north this year.

Now...Next year, well thats a different story, a whole new religious experience altogether. angel

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 10:47 pm

Biltong wrote:Who cares about the player of the year?

It is just an award guven to a player based on the opinions and perceptions of a handful of people

Exactly - no one really cares but everyone has to play along to stop the Kiwis going into a sook.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 11:00 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Biltong wrote:Who cares about the player of the year?

It is just an award guven to a player based on the opinions and perceptions of a handful of people

Exactly - no one really cares but everyone has to play along to stop the Kiwis going into a sook.

Who says they have to play along?

The easily lead ones perhaps?

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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 05 Nov 2018, 12:51 pm

Judging by the Award's advocates on this thread, that would be a majority.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 2:00 pm

Midi Olympic awards Conor Murray as their world player of the year. Well deserved.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 5:50 pm

Who are they?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 7:08 pm

French newspaper

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 7:47 pm

Oh yep, fair enough. Might be their constraints re what peiod isnt as limited as the WR one, Murray should have been there anyway, as should have Retallick in terms of playing ability, and for me so should Pocock, so often the one man band this year..and obviously Furlong.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 8:48 pm

Updated: Womens XV's,

...player of the year next:

Latest awards so far (updated- coach, Ref, Brodie, Ireland)
Dont really agree with Brodies but it certainly is the unique one. Perhaps why he got it. The rest were great end to end team tries. That he can do that near full time is the special part.

WORLD RUGBY AWARDS WINNERS:
World Rugby Women's Player of the Year: Jessy Tremouliere (France)
World rugby team of the year: Ireland
World Rugby Coach of the Year: Joe Schmidt (Ireland)
World Rugby Referee of the Year: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Try of the Year: Brodie Retallick (All Blacks)
World Rugby Breakthrough Player of the Year: Aphiwe Dyantyi (South Africa)
World Rugby Men's Sevens Player of the Year: Perry Baker (USA)
World Rugby Women’s Sevens Player of the Year: Michaela Blyde (Black Ferns Sevens)
IRPA Special Merit Award: DJ Forbes (New Zealand), Stephen Moore (Australia)
Spirit of Rugby Award: Jamie Armstrong
Award for Character: Doddie Weir - Former Scotland international
Vernon Pugh Award for Distinguished Service: Yoshirō Mori - President of the Japan Rugby Union

Still think Sexton will win player of the year though interesting to see their comparative games vs Italy.
Sexton passes 45 times times and runs 4 meters, does little else. Barrett scores a solo try off the back of the lineout from his normal position and kicks a perfect wingers kick to Jordie who scores.

Barrett: One try, 2 assists, 7 kicks, 15 passes, 11 runs, 79 meters, one clean break, 3 defenders beaten and ONE LINEOUT won

I mean for all his consistency if Sexton wins if for that it'll be mediocrity awarded in that space.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 9:37 pm

Try of the year Brodie Retallick.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 9:59 pm

Schmidt and Ireland coach and team of the year

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 10:12 pm

Taylorman wrote:Updated: Womens XV's,

...player of the year next:

Latest awards so far (updated- coach, Ref, Brodie, Ireland)
Dont really agree with Brodies but it certainly is the unique one. Perhaps why he got it. The rest were great end to end team tries. That he can do that near full time is the special part.

WORLD RUGBY AWARDS WINNERS:
World Rugby Men's Player of the Year: Johnny Sexton (Ireland)
World Rugby Women's Player of the Year: Jessy Tremouliere (France)
World rugby team of the year: Ireland
World Rugby Coach of the Year: Joe Schmidt (Ireland)
World Rugby Referee of the Year: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Try of the Year: Brodie Retallick (All Blacks)
World Rugby Breakthrough Player of the Year: Aphiwe Dyantyi (South Africa)
World Rugby Men's Sevens Player of the Year: Perry Baker (USA)
World Rugby Women’s Sevens Player of the Year: Michaela Blyde (Black Ferns Sevens)
IRPA Special Merit Award: DJ Forbes (New Zealand), Stephen Moore (Australia)
Spirit of Rugby Award: Jamie Armstrong
Award for Character: Doddie Weir - Former Scotland international
Vernon Pugh Award for Distinguished Service: Yoshirō Mori - President of the Japan Rugby Union

Still think Sexton will win player of the year though interesting to see their comparative games vs Italy.
Sexton passes 45 times times and runs 4 meters, does little else. Barrett scores a solo try off the back of the lineout from his normal position and kicks a perfect wingers kick to Jordie who scores.

Barrett: One try, 2 assists, 7 kicks, 15 passes, 11 runs, 79 meters, one clean break, 3 defenders beaten and ONE LINEOUT won

I mean for all his consistency if Sexton wins if for that it'll be mediocrity awarded in that space.

All in, as expected, Sexton player of the year for 2018.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 10:16 pm

Ha! ha! Too cool to speak................ My Lord, he's getting uppity Cool

Taking a hint from Cluxton.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 10:19 pm

Well, that's going to be a difficult year to top.
Thankfully it's a quiet one with not much happening on the rugby front................ Whistle

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 10:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:Well, that's going to be a difficult year to top.  
Thankfully it's a quiet one with not much happening on the rugby front................ Whistle

Yes a good prelude to the World cup year. Ireland thinking they can beat anyone, ABs being told they can't.

Purrrrrrfect. thumbsup

Good effort Ireland and fans. Let the chasers begin... Yahoo

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 10:42 pm

It's a tasty year ahead sure enough.  Might turn out to be sour tasting but what the heck... you gotta give it a crack.

I believe Ireland can harden up a bit more (in the benches area and in 2nd string) - if anything, the 2nd stringers play things a little too open and light footed.  That's fine against weak opposition but we need to have Team A and B capable of doing the furious aggression stuff - (the dull unmerciful stuff, if you like)
So, I'm not looking past the 6N.  It should be a TOUGH competition based on what happened this AI season.  Seems like there'll be richter scale physicality in many of the games as England, Wales, Scotland and France stoke up their engines.  All I want to see is the relentless aggression continuing and some players not used that much in AIs getting some good hard game time.

Only then will I think of the WC. In beautiful Japan.... think it'll be a wonderful competition - regardless of who wins

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 10:56 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's a tasty year ahead sure enough.  Might turn out to be sour tasting but what the heck... you gotta give it a crack.

I believe Ireland can harden up a bit more (in the benches area and in 2nd string) - if anything, the 2nd stringers play things a little too open and light footed.  That's fine against weak opposition but we need to have Team A and B capable of doing the furious aggression stuff - (the dull unmerciful stuff, if you like)
So, I'm not looking past the 6N.  It should be a TOUGH competition based on what happened this AI season.  Seems like there'll be richter scale physicality in many of the games as England, Wales, Scotland and France stoke up their engines.  All I want to see is the relentless aggression continuing and some players not used that much in AIs getting some good hard game time.

Only then will I think of the WC.  In beautiful Japan.... think it'll be a wonderful competition - regardless of who wins

Yes the standard across the home union sides has possibly never looked as thinly spread. What impressed mecwas the variations in anticipation of attack across all the sides. Something is ‘on’ more these days where a few years ago the old haul it ups were never ending. Theres a lot more thought in backplay these days.

Scotland and Wales really could hand the title to England again by winning at home again vs Ireland.

Taylorman

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 26 Nov 2018, 1:37 am

Taylorman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's a tasty year ahead sure enough.  Might turn out to be sour tasting but what the heck... you gotta give it a crack.

I believe Ireland can harden up a bit more (in the benches area and in 2nd string) - if anything, the 2nd stringers play things a little too open and light footed.  That's fine against weak opposition but we need to have Team A and B capable of doing the furious aggression stuff - (the dull unmerciful stuff, if you like)
So, I'm not looking past the 6N.  It should be a TOUGH competition based on what happened this AI season.  Seems like there'll be richter scale physicality in many of the games as England, Wales, Scotland and France stoke up their engines.  All I want to see is the relentless aggression continuing and some players not used that much in AIs getting some good hard game time.

Only then will I think of the WC.  In beautiful Japan.... think it'll be a wonderful competition - regardless of who wins

Yes the standard across the home union sides has possibly never looked as thinly spread. What impressed mecwas the variations in anticipation of attack across all the sides. Something is ‘on’ more these days where a few years ago the old haul it ups were never ending. Theres a lot more thought in backplay these days.

Scotland and Wales really could hand the title to England again by winning at home again vs Ireland.

Not sure if winning at home again applies to Scotland. The 6N Head-to-Head is 14-4 in Ireland’s favour with 3 of Scotlamd’s Wins at home -2001, 2013, 2017. And oddly, Ireland and Wales have a sometime habit of winning in each other’s grounds as much as at home. Neither venue is a gimme for either team.

2007 Ireland in Cardiff
2008 Wales in Dublin
2009 Ireland in Cardiff
2010 Ireland in Dublin
2011 Wales in Cardiff
2012 Wales in Dublin
2013 Ireland in Cardiff
2014 Ireland in Dublin
2015 Wales in Cardiff
2015 Ireland in Cardiff RWC WU
2015 Wales in Dublin RWC WU
2016 Draw in Dublin
2017 Wales in Cardiff
2018 Ireland in Dublin
Pot Hale
Pot Hale

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 26 Nov 2018, 1:58 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's a tasty year ahead sure enough.  Might turn out to be sour tasting but what the heck... you gotta give it a crack.

I believe Ireland can harden up a bit more (in the benches area and in 2nd string) - if anything, the 2nd stringers play things a little too open and light footed.  That's fine against weak opposition but we need to have Team A and B capable of doing the furious aggression stuff - (the dull unmerciful stuff, if you like)
So, I'm not looking past the 6N.  It should be a TOUGH competition based on what happened this AI season.  Seems like there'll be richter scale physicality in many of the games as England, Wales, Scotland and France stoke up their engines.  All I want to see is the relentless aggression continuing and some players not used that much in AIs getting some good hard game time.

Only then will I think of the WC.  In beautiful Japan.... think it'll be a wonderful competition - regardless of who wins

Yes the standard across the home union sides has possibly never looked as thinly spread. What impressed mecwas the variations in anticipation of attack across all the sides. Something is ‘on’ more these days where a few years ago the old haul it ups were never ending. Theres a lot more thought in backplay these days.

Scotland and Wales really could hand the title to England again by winning at home again vs Ireland.

Not sure if winning at home again applies to Scotland. The 6N Head-to-Head is 14-4 in Ireland’s favour with 3 of Scotlamd’s Wins at home -2001, 2013, 2017.   And oddly, Ireland and Wales have a sometime habit of winning in each other’s grounds as much as at home.  Neither venue is a gimme for either team.

2007 Ireland in Cardiff
2008 Wales in Dublin
2009 Ireland in Cardiff
2010 Ireland in Dublin
2011 Wales in Cardiff
2012 Wales in Dublin
2013 Ireland in Cardiff
2014 Ireland in Dublin
2015 Wales in Cardiff
2015 Ireland in Cardiff RWC WU
2015 Wales in Dublin RWC WU
2016 Draw in Dublin
2017 Wales in Cardiff
2018 Ireland in Dublin

Well using the Ireland are up 2-1 theory, Scotlands home wins in 2017/2018:

Played 11, won 9 and have only lost to NZ by 5, and SA by 6, winning average at 31-19, 4 tries to 2, beating:

Ireland (so are now 1/1 at home)
Wales
Italy
Samoa
Australia
France
England
Fiji
Argentina

Don't know about you but I've never seen a home run like that in Scotland, ever.

After losing to NZ last year, (and beating Ireland Whistle - now also 1/1 at home)

Wales are 8 straight wins at home:
South Africa
Scotland
Italy
France
Scotland
Australia
Tonga
South Africa.

Looking at Irelands home record, they too base their best wins at home.

Ireland at Murrayfield and Millenium look tough to me on that basis.

Taylorman

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Location : Wellington NZ

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