Edinburgh V Toulon

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Post by RDW on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 12:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

Head Coach Richard Cockerill has made just one change to his Edinburgh side as they face three-times Heineken Cup Champions, RC Toulon, at BT Murrayfield tomorrow afternoon (Saturday 20 October, kick-off 3.15pm).

Jaco van der Walt starts at stand-off in the place of Simon Hickey – who drops to the bench – as Edinburgh host their first Heineken Champions Cup fixture since January 2014.

There are two alterations to the bench as Fosroc Scottish Rugby Academy graduate, Luke Crosbie, joins scrum-half Nathan Fowles among the replacements.

Ahead of the fixture, Head Coach Richard Cockerill issued a rallying cry for the city to get behind its club as they face-off against one European rugby’s most star-studded sides.

“A bumper crowd would definitely give us an edge,” said Cockerill. “We’re bringing the three-times European Champions to BT Murrayfield to play Edinburgh.

“It is, to a point, new territory for us in recent history, so I’d love the supporters to come along and get behind their city and support us.

"We’re going to try our best. We’ve always said we’re a side that’s developing, but we’re learning our lessons quickly.

"As I’ve always said, we’re going to try and win every time we play. We didn’t last weekend, but we gave Montpellier one hell of a fright.

“The next step is to start picking off these big teams and we’re going to try and that against Toulon this Saturday.”

An unchanged back-three sees fullback Blair Kinghorn named alongside wingers Dougie Fife – a try-scorer in last weekend’s Heineken Champions Cup opener in Montpellier – and Darcy Graham.

In the midfield, Matt Scott – fresh off being named in the Scotland squad for the 2018 Autumn Tests – is partnered by James Johnstone. Henry Pyrgos is selected at scrum-half alongside Van der Walt, who makes only his third start of the season after facing Connacht and Leinster earlier in the season.

An all Scotland tight-five sees hooker and captain Stuart McInally pack down alongside WP Nel and Allan Dell in the front-row, whilst Ben Toolis and Grant Gilchrist continue their partnership in the second-row.

After another all-action performance against Montpellier, Fijian star Bill Mata starts at number eight, with Scotland internationalists Hamish Watson and Magnus Bradbury completing the back-row.



Edinburgh team to face RC Toulon at BT Murrayfield in the Heineken Champions Cup on Saturday 20 October, kick-off 3.15pm – live on BT Sport.



15. Blair Kinghorn (70)



14. Darcy Graham (8)

13. James Johnstone (24)

12. Matt Scott (79)

11. Dougie Fife (113)



10. Jaco van der Walt (21)

9. Henry Pyrgos (6)



1. Allan Dell (50)

2. Stuart McInally (126) CAPTAIN

3. WP Nel (121)

4. Ben Toolis (95)

5. Grant Gilchrist (126)

6. Magnus Bradbury (58)

7. Hamish Watson (87)

8. Bill Mata (42)



Replacements: 16. Ross Ford (184); 17. Rory Sutherland (66); 18. Simon Berghan (54); 19. Luke Crosbie (14); 20. Jamie Ritchie (55); 21. Nathan Fowles (60); 22. Simon Hickey (6); 23. Chris Dean (70)

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:42 pm

French teams just seem to really struggle with an old fashion open side. Another great turnover by Watson

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:43 pm

Ford comes on to try and shore up the scrum again

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:44 pm

Gaaaaaah so frustrating!

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:46 pm

This game is fizzling out - would be a huge disappointment to not get a try BP

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:47 pm

Berghan makes the tackle of his life against Tulisiva

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:51 pm

Toulon completely knackered we just need to try and get some ball in their half!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:53 pm

Game really breaking up now, surely there is another try out there

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:54 pm

We need some calm heads here. We don't need to score from every break - a bit of structure and we'll get the try

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:55 pm

Watson has been brilliant

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:57 pm

Again as good as all the offloads are we don't need the miracle pass - just go though the phases!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:59 pm

Toulon finally commit suicide!

Well done Edinburgh, really deserved a BP from that game!

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:59 pm

There it is! Madness from Toulon

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:03 pm

There's no way Mata will still be an Edinburgh player next season.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:04 pm

Mata MoM, could have been one of several though, a lot of very good performances today. Edinburgh really growing into a side atm

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:06 pm

Since when could you not roll along the ground when you're not held?

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:08 pm

Well done the luvies

A team definitely coming to life!

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:08 pm

What a win - turns out the bookies know what they're talking about!

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:08 pm

Score anyone?

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:15 pm

yappysnap wrote:Score anyone?

40-14 Edinburgh, BP win and zilch for Toulon

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:16 pm

In a way it's a shame the AIs are coming up - Edinburgh are building real momentum.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:20 pm

At the risk of jinxing it, Edinburgh could qualify from this group.

There have been a few unexpected results and some draws so far, the runners up spot is not likely to need a high points score.

Toulon must be out now, unless they do the double against Montpellier (very unlikely). 3 more wins and Edinburgh are definitely through!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:31 pm

Any doubts that D'Arcy Graham has not got what it takes to play professional or even international rugby are fading fast into the distance. He had another barn storming game, both in attack and defence.

I would be very surprised if he is not in the full Scotland squad by the 6N if he carries on his current trajectory and could easily be a bolter for the WC. Talk about punching above your weight, he is utterly fearless.

Go to say that Dougie Fife has come on leaps and bounds as well and just looks a different player these days. A real advertisement for sending wayward talents off to the sevens, it did not do him any harm!

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:32 pm

Trying to decide who we want to win tomorrow - if Montpellier win we'll likely be playing for 2nd against Newcastle. If Newcastle win there's a chance of topping the group, with our double header in December absolutely cruical.

Either way, 6 points from the first 2 games is a great return.

If I'm being critical the 2nd half was disappointing, despite the brilliant offloads and breaks. Toulon were awful yet we had to rely on a moment of madness from them to get the 4th try. If we'd kept on playing as per the first half we would have been on 70 points!

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:34 pm

Excellent victory against Toulon. Makes the Montpellier game a good perspective of worst case scenario. That Edinburgh team could beat Toulon in Toulon and win their home games. Need 12 more points from 4 games.

Set piece was excellent though the scrum started creaking when Nel came off. Toolis was exceptional. He controlled that area of the game almost single handedly. Only Ross Ford coming on could have hurt that dominance. The front five were good in the loose and outperformed the Toulon front five.

Watson and Mata were phenomenal. Bradbury was doing ok and hope the injury is relatively minor. His arm in a sling at the end is a big negative going into the international break.

Pyrgos had his best game in an Edinburgh jersey that I have seen this season. Felt he was quicker in providing service and VDW thrived. Scott and Johnstone were good. Scott in the first half was the best back on the park.

Graham had a great game though he gave away a couple of penalties. He was a threat at all times and Savea should be embarrassed. He tackled, he got a turnover and he kept working. Fife was solid, probably an average performance for him. Kinghorn was below his average because he had nothing to counterattack with. Made his tackles.

Toulon for all the star power, were awful. No organisation, no attitude. The only player who can hold their head up high is Bastauraud. Maybe the young 10 can be given some credit. They got schooled on the ground. The team needs a clean out and a coach like Ledesma who can teach them some game smarts. They did not come into this game thinking they were in a contest. The big regret is that Mata so thoroughly outplayed their entire back-row single handedly that they may try and get him at the end of the season.

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:34 pm

clap clap clap clap
Well done Luvvies.

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Post by Heaf on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:39 pm

Excellent result ...

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:46 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Trying to decide who we want to win tomorrow - if Montpellier win we'll likely be playing for 2nd against Newcastle. If Newcastle win there's a chance of topping the group, with our double header in December absolutely cruical.

Either way, 6 points from the first 2 games is a great return.

If I'm being critical the 2nd half was disappointing, despite the brilliant offloads and breaks. Toulon were awful yet we had to rely on a moment of madness from them to get the 4th try. If we'd kept on playing as per the first half we would have been on 70 points!

Let it play out, I think they have a good chance of going through whatever the result.

Newcastle look like they are still not fully committed to the competition though, premiership survival is their priority, they have still not got their best team out. They surprised Toulon last week, can't imagine BVC will fall for it the way Toulon did!

Still if Edinburgh play like today, any side would be beatable at home. All French sides are flaky away from home, Montpellier will not relish Edinburgh in January!

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Post by stub on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 5:52 pm

Fabulous result there Edinburgh!

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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 6:05 pm

Bill Mata's contract is up this season - never mind Stuart Hogg, the SRU should break the bank to keep him!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 6:27 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bill Mata's contract is up this season - never mind Stuart Hogg, the SRU should break the bank to keep him!

They will make him a very good offer, but it will be bettered by others no doubt. The SRu are not going to break the bank for him unfortunately when there are players like Hoggy and Shuggy to tie down.

Still it depends what he wants from life. He is clearly happy and settled at Edinburgh and will undoubtedly get a big pay rise if he stays. He is also young enough to defer things for a couple of years as well. Some have stayed, Nel, for example, who could definitely have gotten more elsewhere.

He does not have the incentive of qualifying to play international rugby though.

Edinburgh are on a roll though, maybe good old fashion loyalty may come into play as well?

It's a long shot, I know!

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 6:28 pm

What a result, gutted I couldn't watch it live!

I could see Mata signing on for 1 more season to see how far Cockers can take this team. If he chooses not to though we can't complain, the man is a superstar!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 6:34 pm

One thing in Edinburgh favour is that there does seem to be an active Fijian community around Edinburgh, with the army connections. There are a lot of Fijian soldiers in the Royal Regiment of Scotland!

Tell you what, I would not fancy fighting against them!

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Post by TJ on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 6:35 pm

Edinburgh ( and glasgow) have to offer more than money to keep the stars.  Chance of silverware?  Not overplaying them?  Find them good places to live?  etc etc and make the whole package about more than just money

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Post by Brendan on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 6:41 pm

If Newcastle are still last in the Prem when the next rounds comes Edinburgh will be looking at 9pts. That would leave them on 18 with just 2-3pts needed in their last two games. Toulon should also have given up at that point.

Flying the flag of Scottish and Pro14 standards proudly. Once they sort out their fear of beating teams well regularly sky is the limit. But I guess it's ungentlemanly to make it look to easy and wrap up games early.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 6:47 pm

TJ wrote:Edinburgh ( and glasgow) have to offer more than money to keep the stars.  Chance of silverware?  Not overplaying them?  Find them good places to live?  etc etc and make the whole package about more than just money

Surely a fine place of Culture such as Edinburgh has lots to offer as a place for the finer people of life. Glasgow might be a harder sell but intimation often works there I hear. On a serious note does the Princess (Margaret I think) do anything with the Pro teams. I am sure if they sold it as you get dinner with a Princess if you joint the Pro team might get a few unsuspecting people on board.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 8:27 pm

Brendan wrote:
TJ wrote:Edinburgh ( and glasgow) have to offer more than money to keep the stars.  Chance of silverware?  Not overplaying them?  Find them good places to live?  etc etc and make the whole package about more than just money

Surely a fine place of Culture such as Edinburgh has lots to offer as a place for the finer people of life.  Glasgow might be a harder sell but intimation often works there I hear. On a serious note does the Princess (Margaret I think) do anything with the Pro teams.  I am sure if they sold it as you get dinner with a Princess if you joint the Pro team might get a few unsuspecting people on board.

Glasgow was European City of Culture I'd have you know. Plenty of that side of life available in Glasgow as well as a dose of the grittier side of life if urban reality is your kind of thing!

As for Edinburgh, have you never seen Train Spotting?

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Post by Brendan on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 8:33 pm

BigGee wrote:
Brendan wrote:
TJ wrote:Edinburgh ( and glasgow) have to offer more than money to keep the stars.  Chance of silverware?  Not overplaying them?  Find them good places to live?  etc etc and make the whole package about more than just money

Surely a fine place of Culture such as Edinburgh has lots to offer as a place for the finer people of life.  Glasgow might be a harder sell but intimation often works there I hear. On a serious note does the Princess (Margaret I think) do anything with the Pro teams.  I am sure if they sold it as you get dinner with a Princess if you joint the Pro team might get a few unsuspecting people on board.

Glasgow was European City of Culture I'd have you know. Plenty of that side of life available in Glasgow as well as a dose of the grittier side of life if urban reality is your kind of thing!

As for Edinburgh, have you never seen Train Spotting?

Long time ago, thought it was based in Glasgow, shows what know

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 9:06 pm

Great result. Job done. Let's enjoy Mata while we still have him!

I'd echo the earlier comments on Graham. He's developing very nicely indeed.

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 9:21 pm

Form or lack of from Toulon shouldn’t take away from a cracking win for Edinburgh.

Winning against Savea and co will have done our back line a world of good
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Post by RDW on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 9:39 pm

Just a thought, I wonder how much of our backline improvements are, strangely, because VDM has been injured? Earlier in the season our backs were horribly predictable, basically just 'give it to Duhan'. As he's been injured we've had to develop the other players at our disposal. If we can continue do that plus add his threat into the mix we may end up with a backline to match our pack.

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Post by Anglobraveheart on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 7:11 am

I managed to get to see the game yesterday, and was impressed with the urgency of Edinburgh, that really made the diffrence.
Bastareaud was by far tha best Toulon player, well supported by the two Kivis. Unfortunately for them, the rest of the team were not playing as one. They meed a shake up and new management, obviously.
Apart from Mata, who was everywhere, the SQ standouts were Scott, Pyrgos, Graham, Fife, McInally, Bradbury and Watson.
Nel, Dell, Toolis, Kinghorn and Johnson had solid games, as did Ritchie, Dean and Ford as replacements.
I fail to see what Gilchrist brings. He lumbered about yesterday, adding nothing, except a bit of ineffective white line fever, when the ball was within 5 metres of the Toulon line. If you watch the first Toulon try, he just didn't get stuck in, and watched Toulon create the score. I wouldn't have him in the 23, and unless he finds the getting stuck in button, I don't want him anywhere near a Scotland squad. Apart from GC, it was a great, gritty team performance.

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Post by des on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 9:00 am

Gilchrist took 3 of their lineouts in the first half. They'd stacked their pack with locks and we dismantled the main threat they thought they might have.

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Post by RDW on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 9:04 am

I'd normally jump to his defence but he made half the number of tackles  of Toolis and only made 6m from 8 carries (!). I wonder if he was feeling the effects of the massive collision that put him off for the HIA.

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Post by des on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 9:43 am

I think his lineout work had huge value, especially given how Toulon were setup. You're probably right about the post hia contributions though.

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Post by RDW on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 2:59 pm

Well well well - Newcastle just beat Montpellier 9 minutes into added time! Puts them firmly in the driving seat in the group.

Who would have thought the Edinburgh v Newcastle double header would go a long way to deciding the group??

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 3:12 pm

Brendan wrote:If Newcastle are still last in the Prem when the next rounds comes Edinburgh will be looking at 9pts.  That would leave them on 18 with just 2-3pts needed in their last two games. 
What was the logic behind that statement? After today's game do you still think that?

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 5:44 pm

Newcastle aren't as bad as folk think. Few tough games against tough opposition has them struggling in the prem. they'll still climb.

Edinburgh can qualify but we'll need to take points off Newcastle
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Post by king_carlos on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 8:00 pm

Those last two games have summed up very well what Deano has built at Falcons.

The big French sides all follow the same game plan in the early group stages against perceived weaker clubs. They spend the first 60 minutes using their usually huge forward packs to break the opposition down with very physical tight exchanges and set-piece power. Then in the final quarter they throw on the strong benches that their budgets allow and run away with the game as the opposition run out of gas.

Deano has built a physical forward pack with a growing set-piece (admittedly much stronger in line-out) and their defence just didn't quit as others do in the face of the French clubs forward power. Truly gritty forward displays which were optimised by Mark Wilson and Gary Graham on the flanks.

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Edinburgh V Toulon - Page 2 Empty Re: Edinburgh V Toulon

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 9:26 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Brendan wrote:If Newcastle are still last in the Prem when the next rounds comes Edinburgh will be looking at 9pts.  That would leave them on 18 with just 2-3pts needed in their last two games. 
What was the logic behind that statement? After today's game do you still think that?

If anything I think Falcons will target Europe. It's brought a feel good factor and some momentum to the club. There's also the possibility of the final in their home city. If you can make it out of the pool then it's knock out rugby and the odds go out the window.

formerly known as Sam

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Post by yappysnap on Sun 21 Oct 2018, 10:19 pm

king_carlos wrote:Those last two games have summed up very well what Deano has built at Falcons.

The big French sides all follow the same game plan in the early group stages against perceived weaker clubs. They spend the first 60 minutes using their usually huge forward packs to break the opposition down with very physical tight exchanges and set-piece power. Then in the final quarter they throw on the strong benches that their budgets allow and run away with the game as the opposition run out of gas.

Deano has built a physical forward pack with a growing set-piece (admittedly much stronger in line-out) and their defence just didn't quit as others do in the face of the French clubs forward power. Truly gritty forward displays which were optimised by Mark Wilson and Gary Graham on the flanks.

Agree with this, he did the same with Quins. He's brilliant at building a never say die attitude and making the players relish these big games not fear them.

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