November tests general

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November tests general

Post by profitius on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 3:52 pm

First topic message reminder :


The list is below. Any predictions as to what might happen?
https://www.autumn-internationals.co.uk/2018/


WEEK 1
Saturday 3rd November 2018

-Japan v New Zealand
Ajinomoto Stadium, Tokyo
Kick off: 5:45am

-Wales v Scotland
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 2:45pm

-England v South Africa
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Ireland v Italy
Soldier Field, Chicago
Kick off: 8:00pm



WEEK 2
Saturday 10th November 2018

-Italy v Georgia
Stadio Artemio Franchi, Florence
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Scotland v Fiji
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v New Zealand
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Wales v Australia
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v Argentina
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 6:30pm

-France v South Africa
Stade de France, Paris
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 3
Saturday 17th November 2018

-Italy v Australia
Stadio Euganeo, Padua
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Wales v Tonga
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v Japan
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Scotland v South Africa
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v New Zealand
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 7:00pm

-France v Argentina
Stade Pierre-Mauroy, Lille
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 4
Saturday 24th November 2018

-Italy v New Zealand
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Scotland v Argentina
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v Australia
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Wales v South Africa
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v USA
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 6:30pm

-France v Fiji
Stade de France, Paris
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 5
Saturday 1st December 2018

-Barbarians v Argentina
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 2:30pm
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Re: November tests general

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:13 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:You have totally bought into the AB pr machine anyway Lord.

No I haven't.

It's just that I am not a hypocrite. The home nations do far more damage to other countries resources by taking players from other countries, than any other nation.

LD - which country takes the most players from other countries?


Last edited by Pot Hale on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:14 pm

Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

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Re: November tests general

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:17 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.
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Re: November tests general

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:17 pm

I've been asking ld that for 3 threads Pot. He's adamant that the nh countries are the worst so he does have that info to hand.

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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:19 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Because you said that BOTH Argentina and SA CANT attract overseas players, when clearly they can.


No the point has always been that you need to satisfy certain criteria to attract overseas players. Strong league and economy or a stronger economy than the country the players are coming from in SA and Zimbabwes case. Thats why no NH players go to SA they wouldnt earn anything.

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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:20 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.

Did I get it right?

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:22 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.

You do not have to be a d!ck PH. OK

I would say France. Followed by Scotland.

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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've been asking ld that for 3 threads Pot. He's adamant that the nh countries are the worst so he does have that info to hand.

It has more to do with economy than what hemisphere you are from. Australia have more foreign born players than most NH sides.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Because you said that BOTH Argentina and SA CANT attract overseas players, when clearly they can.


No the point has always been that you need to satisfy certain criteria to attract overseas players. Strong league and economy or a stronger economy than the country the players are coming from in SA and Zimbabwes case. Thats why no NH players go to SA they wouldnt earn anything.

But you said they cant, which makes you incorrect.

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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.

You do not have to be a d!ck PH. OK

I would say France. Followed by Scotland.

France under Laporte have changed tack. Not that many foreign born players.

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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Because you said that BOTH Argentina and SA CANT attract overseas players, when clearly they can.


No the point has always been that you need to satisfy certain criteria to attract overseas players. Strong league and economy or a stronger economy than the country the players are coming from in SA and Zimbabwes case. Thats why no NH players go to SA they wouldnt earn anything.

But you said they cant, which makes you incorrect.

That was your interpretaion which is down to your own misunderstanding.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:25 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.

You do not have to be a d!ck PH. OK

I would say France. Followed by Scotland.

France under Laporte have changed tack. Not that many foreign born players.

Have you not seen the players in the TOP14 ?

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:26 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Because you said that BOTH Argentina and SA CANT attract overseas players, when clearly they can.


No the point has always been that you need to satisfy certain criteria to attract overseas players. Strong league and economy or a stronger economy than the country the players are coming from in SA and Zimbabwes case. Thats why no NH players go to SA they wouldnt earn anything.

But you said they cant, which makes you incorrect.

That was your interpretaion which is down to your own misunderstanding.

Come on, stop the squirming.

Why some members on here cannot just admit when they are wrong is beyond me. Rolling Eyes

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Re: November tests general

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:28 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've been asking ld that for 3 threads Pot. He's adamant that the nh countries are the worst so he does have that info to hand.

Well yes, collectively the NH countries do have the most.
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Re: November tests general

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:29 pm

Are you now saying leagues and not talking about national teams then?

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Re: November tests general

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.

You do not have to be a d!ck PH. OK

I would say France. Followed by Scotland.

Well if you think it’s France, why did you say Home Nations did the most then more than any other nation?
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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Because you said that BOTH Argentina and SA CANT attract overseas players, when clearly they can.


No the point has always been that you need to satisfy certain criteria to attract overseas players. Strong league and economy or a stronger economy than the country the players are coming from in SA and Zimbabwes case. Thats why no NH players go to SA they wouldnt earn anything.

But you said they cant, which makes you incorrect.

That was your interpretaion which is down to your own misunderstanding.

Come on, stop the squirming.

Why some members on here cannot just admit when they are wrong is beyond me. Rolling Eyes

Haha because I'm not wrong. You just interpreted what I have said incorrectly.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:41 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.

You do not have to be a d!ck PH. OK

I would say France. Followed by Scotland.

Well if you think it’s France, why did you say Home Nations did the most then more than any other nation?

Becuase between us all we are rife for it. We are all just as bad as each other.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:42 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Because you said that BOTH Argentina and SA CANT attract overseas players, when clearly they can.


No the point has always been that you need to satisfy certain criteria to attract overseas players. Strong league and economy or a stronger economy than the country the players are coming from in SA and Zimbabwes case. Thats why no NH players go to SA they wouldnt earn anything.

But you said they cant, which makes you incorrect.

That was your interpretaion which is down to your own misunderstanding.

Come on, stop the squirming.

Why some members on here cannot just admit when they are wrong is beyond me. Rolling Eyes

Haha because I'm not wrong. You just interpreted what I have said incorrectly.

Of course I did. picard

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Re: November tests general

Post by RiscaGame on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:43 pm

It’s fun seeing the same old arguements pop up.

What’s even better though, is seeing somebody who always gives out about trying to win the internet, give out so much about admitting when wrong. Hypocrisy aye.

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Re: November tests general

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:55 pm

I don't think emotive language is that helpful when thinking of these things either and I can be just as bad. Poaching, all being as bad as each other etc. It's an issue with a few ways of qualifying lots of different examples we think of as ok. I don't think there's many if any bad guys out there with the set of players we're talking about.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:57 pm

Risca, I thought you had me on ignore.

If you haven't, please revert back to it, because I prefer it when it you have me on ignore. OK

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Re: November tests general

Post by The Oracle on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 1:59 pm

Not sure how he hasn't been banned.  I got banned once for calling a WUM a name as he was spoiling the thread.  A 4 day ban!  LD calls people 'D!ck', etc. and gets away with it!
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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:01 pm

Oh here we go. picard

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Re: November tests general

Post by The Oracle on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:03 pm

I'll take the MOD's advice and put him back on ignore, before I cop another ban at the hands of Lord 'Teflon' Dowlais.
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Re: November tests general

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Japan probably. Not that surprising given their league attracts a lot of foreigners

My question was directed at Lord Dowlais unfortunately.

You do not have to be a d!ck PH. OK

I would say France. Followed by Scotland.

Well if you think it’s France, why did you say Home Nations did the most then more than any other nation?

Becuase between us all we are rife for it. We are all just as bad as each other.

France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

In terms of high profile/top quality players, they are mainly in France, England and Japan. For example, there are no ex-ABs playing on a full time contract in the PRO14 (there’s one on 3-month injury cover at Munster until December.)
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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:13 pm

Pot Hale wrote:In terms of high profile/top quality players, they are mainly in France, England and Japan. For example, there are no ex-ABs playing on a full time contract in the PRO14 (there’s one on 3-month injury cover at Munster until December.)

Why are you narrowing it down to AB's ?

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:16 pm

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

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Re: November tests general

Post by SecretFly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:22 pm

The Oracle wrote:Not sure how he hasn't been banned.  I got banned once for calling a WUM a name as he was spoiling the thread.  A 4 day ban!  LD calls people 'D!ck', etc. and gets away with it!

Was that when you was someone else, Oracle? Wink Run

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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Collectively the rugby championship sides are worse than France too but that's quite a meaningless metric.

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Re: November tests general

Post by SecretFly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

English speaking...it's a natural innit?

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Re: November tests general

Post by The Oracle on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Not sure how he hasn't been banned.  I got banned once for calling a WUM a name as he was spoiling the thread.  A 4 day ban!  LD calls people 'D!ck', etc. and gets away with it!

Was that when you was someone else, Oracle? Wink Run

No, that was under my current name. My old name (Griff) was never banned. I asked RDW to erase my account as I'd had enough. When I tried to re-register I think the name was taken Smile
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Re: November tests general

Post by SecretFly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:34 pm

Yeah, I remember the 'had enough' departure, Oracle....

..and kinda sensed it was you straight away when that new guy turned up.  It's surprising how our styles really do shine through in identifying us

I must go away and try to come back in as someone completely different --- maybe someone that speaks sense and keeps it strictly to rugby and doesn't stream-of-consciousness all over the place! Laugh

Yis'id never detect me.

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Re: November tests general

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:34 pm

Collectively all the sides are playing to the rules. This isn't the 90 early 00s.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Collectively all the sides are playing to the rules. This isn't the 90 early 00s.


I have never said anything different.

I have always said that nobody is doing anything wrong, it does not mean I have to like it though.

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Re: November tests general

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:36 pm

Calling it bad and tying all sorts of players/individuals in together isn't the best way to put that across ld.

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Re: November tests general

Post by BamBam on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:36 pm

The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Not sure how he hasn't been banned.  I got banned once for calling a WUM a name as he was spoiling the thread.  A 4 day ban!  LD calls people 'D!ck', etc. and gets away with it!

Was that when you was someone else, Oracle? Wink Run

No, that was under my current name.  My old name (Griff) was never banned.  I asked RDW to erase my account as I'd had enough.  When I tried to re-register I think the name was taken Smile

For a while, I assumed you were the Saint Laugh

Then you became far more reasonable

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Re: November tests general

Post by SecretFly on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 2:39 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Collectively all the sides are playing to the rules. This isn't the 90 early 00s.


I have never said anything different.

I have always said that nobody is doing anything wrong, it does not mean I have to like it though.

Good one Lord...I like me some ceeeegar chewin' testosterone!

Fill your hands, you sonabitches!

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Re: November tests general

Post by Poorfour on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 3:57 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Poorfour wrote:In recruiting a foreign-based player, it's actually more in a club's interest to recruit players who aren't EQP, because it means they won't be missing for long periods of the year.

What about players who are encouraged not to tie themselves to a union because the clubs could get more money of the RFU ?

The clubs don't get more money from the RFU. The amount they get is basically designed to cover them hiring cover for the games that player doesn't play, and is in any case redistributed by the PRL so that all the clubs get a share rather than it being strictly based on number of players supplied to England.

The amount of money the RFU pays for access has been painfully negotiated over several generations of agreement. It's not just the union throwing cash at the clubs.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:05 pm

Poorfour wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Poorfour wrote:In recruiting a foreign-based player, it's actually more in a club's interest to recruit players who aren't EQP, because it means they won't be missing for long periods of the year.

What about players who are encouraged not to tie themselves to a union because the clubs could get more money of the RFU ?

The clubs don't get more money from the RFU. The amount they get is basically designed to cover them hiring cover for the games that player doesn't play, and is in any case redistributed by the PRL so that all the clubs get a share rather than it being strictly based on number of players supplied to England.

The amount of money the RFU pays for access has been painfully negotiated over several generations of agreement. It's not just the union throwing cash at the clubs.

So the clubs in England do not have a NEQ quota ? Seriously, I do not know, is there any rule about NEQ players, playing in the clubs in England ?

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Re: November tests general

Post by The Oracle on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:09 pm

BamBam wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Not sure how he hasn't been banned.  I got banned once for calling a WUM a name as he was spoiling the thread.  A 4 day ban!  LD calls people 'D!ck', etc. and gets away with it!

Was that when you was someone else, Oracle? Wink Run

No, that was under my current name.  My old name (Griff) was never banned.  I asked RDW to erase my account as I'd had enough.  When I tried to re-register I think the name was taken Smile

For a while, I assumed you were the Saint Laugh

Then you became far more reasonable

How rude! Haha. I assumed Mikey_Dragon was/is the Saint???
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Re: November tests general

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:10 pm

Caveat I would add to that P4 is that there is a chunk of cash paid out for having an average of x EQPs across the season in matchday squads. (Well that used to be the case). 

Thus to get that money it can be worth recruiting a player who has an English granny and no chance of playing for any country. Of course you are then screwed if they are selected and they either become NEQ (ie Francis who first entered Wales after being named in the team) or are absent from the team for long stretches (ie Hughes).

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Re: November tests general

Post by Poorfour on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:So the clubs in England do not have a NEQ quota ? Seriously, I do not know, is there any rule about NEQ players, playing in the clubs in England ?

There's no limit on the number of NEQs, and no hard limit on the number of EQPs.

But there is an RFU bonus (£250k, from memory) if a club includes a certain proportion of EQPs in the matchday squad over the course of a whole season.

Most clubs manage it fairly easily, but there have been a couple of odd situations - Newcastle once played effectively an academy squad in a Premiership game, because getting to the EQP threshold was worth more to them than the win - but it doesn't seem to have influenced recruitment much, as one or two EQPs-from-overseas won't make much difference to most clubs.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:37 pm

Poorfour wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So the clubs in England do not have a NEQ quota ? Seriously, I do not know, is there any rule about NEQ players, playing in the clubs in England ?

There's no limit on the number of NEQs, and no hard limit on the number of EQPs.

But there is an RFU bonus (£250k, from memory) if a club includes a certain proportion of EQPs in the matchday squad over the course of a whole season.

Most clubs manage it fairly easily, but there have been a couple of odd situations - Newcastle once played effectively an academy squad in a Premiership game, because getting to the EQP threshold was worth more to them than the win - but it doesn't seem to have influenced recruitment much, as one or two EQPs-from-overseas won't make much difference to most clubs.

But what if the players are not tied to any other country, and are EQ because they have been through the colleges and schools, do these players count towards that reward ?

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Re: November tests general

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:38 pm

Yes because they are qualified to play for England .

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:40 pm

OK, so that is why the youngsters from Wales are sometimes encouraged not to play for the U20's then.

Do you agree that it is OK for this to happen ?

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Re: November tests general

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:43 pm

So anyway how do you think the Wales Barbarians are going to do this November Lord?

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:44 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:So anyway how do you think the Wales Barbarians are going to do this November Lord?

Who are the Wales Barbarians ?

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Re: November tests general

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:45 pm

Yup think that's fine ld. Players have to be vawful on what they actually want as well. Young shingler couldn't get his scotland cap of course as he was tied in without realising. Don't know specifics of when that has happened though.

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Re: November tests general

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 4:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup think that's fine ld. Players have to be vawful on what they actually want as well. Young shingler couldn't get his scotland cap of course as he was tied in without realising.

But hes Welsh, and that is why he played for Wales U20's. Why would he think otherwise ? I doubt he thought himself as Scottish when he was playing for Wales.

Young Welsh kids not playing for Wales at age grade hampers the WRU in my eyes.

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Re: November tests general

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