England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

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England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 01 Nov 2018, 9:49 am

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday 3rd November 2018
Time: 15:00
Location: Twickenham Stadium

Referee:       Angus Gardiner (Aus)
Assistant 1: Jerome Garces (France)
Assistant 2: Ben Whitehouse (Wales)
TMO:            Olly Hodges (Ireland)




Teams


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 21 caps), 14 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 26 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 13 caps), 12 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 13 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 37 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 61 caps) co-captain, 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 77 caps), 1 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 2 caps), 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 93 caps) co-captain, 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 13 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 22 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 25 caps), 6 Brad Shields (Wasps, 2 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 4 caps), 8 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 4 caps).
 
16 Jamie George (Saracens, 28 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 11 caps), 19 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 6 caps) , 20 Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby, uncapped), 21 Danny Care (Harlequins, 81 caps), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 47 caps), 23 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps).




South Africa


15 Damian Willemse, 14 S’bu Nkosi, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Aphiwe Dyantyi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Ivan van Zyl, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Duane Vermeulen, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Wilco Louw, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Lood de Jager, 21 Embrose Papier, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 André Esterhuizen.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 01 Nov 2018, 11:40 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by stub on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:55 pm

Yes!!!

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by BamBam on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:55 pm

That is surely a red

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by stub on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:55 pm

What drama.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:55 pm

Ah well, both teams were shyte
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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by BamBam on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:56 pm

Wow, I'm really surprised at that decision

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:56 pm

SANZAR slam still on

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:56 pm

Although have to say, how that was not an illegal shoulder charge is beyond me
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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by skiddy on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:57 pm

That referee smoking crack?

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by stub on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:57 pm

Not sure Bam Bam - replay looked like it was a big collision and he was trying (?) to wrap....

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:57 pm

Hmm, I thought that was a shoulder from Farrell

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by lostinwales on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:57 pm

What he do?

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:57 pm

Utterly bizarre how England triumphed. Farrell certainly got away with one at the death; no attempt made whatsoever to wrap the arms. Mammoth improvement required just to be in the game next week.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by protea438 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:58 pm

bull Frak Poopie

disgusting

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:59 pm

Thought the tackle was good personally.

Much better performance in the 2nd, Wilson motm! On balance it was a half each but SA much better in the first. Bit lucky with the win.

Standby for the wums about the Farrell tackle.....

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:59 pm

Biltong wrote:Ah well, both teams were shyte

 SA had strength but no control.

England were quicker, but no control.


Overall SA should have won, but...........

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:59 pm

If that tackle had taken place at an earlier time in the game, I wonder whether the ref would have given it. It's almost like, with so much on the line, he didn't want to give so much weight to a marginal call as the last moment of the game.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Maine man on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:59 pm

Lucky boy Farrell there

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by skiddy on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 4:59 pm

In better news England still look like a fairly dire team going nowhere...

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:00 pm

BamBam wrote:That is surely a red

Maybe a pen and YC at worst but don't see how it can be red - contact was with chest.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by BamBam on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:00 pm

My initial reaction watching it live was a red card for a shoulder to the head, but clearly didn't make contact with the head. I'm very surprised the replay didn't convince the referee that it was an illegal shoulder with the arms not being wrapped

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:00 pm

stub wrote:Not sure Bam Bam - replay looked like it was a big collision and he was trying (?) to wrap....

Exactly, it was a high speed challenge. His left arm wrapped fine.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:01 pm

Biltong wrote:Although have to say, how that was not an illegal shoulder charge is beyond me

It was a yellow or red. Farrell is a terrible defender. No clue how he gets away with it

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:01 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Thought the tackle was good personally.

Much better performance in the 2nd, Wilson motm! On balance it was a half each but SA much better in the first. Bit lucky with the win.

Standby for the wums about the Farrell tackle.....

Way I see it at last second Farrell dipped the shoulder in and took the other arm away. Thus for me foul play.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Taylorman on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:03 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:SANZAR slam still on

Yep, good luck with that. Worst test Ive seen this year. England deserved the win as they made less mistakes and took more chances even though they converted none. A win by kicks. Boks dominated up front early but were kept out by a resolute English defence and a truckload of errors, particularly from Marx throwing who we know can be diabolical.

Complacency by far the ABs biggest issue next week.

Pollards miss determined the result in the end. Summed the match up.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:03 pm

Listening to Nick Mallett

81st minute Johnny May offside.
Just after that high tackle on Kriel
And then Farrel's shoulder.

In my opinion it doesn't matter, we should have taken England out of the match in the first 40.

Another utter pathetic Bok performance.

Simply no bloody consistency
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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:06 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
stub wrote:Not sure Bam Bam - replay looked like it was a big collision and he was trying (?) to wrap....

Exactly, it was a high speed challenge. His left arm wrapped fine.

Not sure how he wrapped his left arm if he was leading with his right shoulder
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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:06 pm

Biltong wrote:...Just after that high tackle on Kriel...
Haven't seen a replay but I remember thinking something looked high at the end there.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:06 pm

Wonder if Farrell will get cited for that tackle? I don't think he hit the head, mind you...


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:07 pm

Indeed Boks looked like they should have walked it in the 1st half but kept making unforced errors and paid for it in the 2nd half when they didn't have dominance any longer ...

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:07 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Wonder if Farrell will get cited for that tackle?

Shouldn't be as wasn't a red ...

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by protea438 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:08 pm

Biltong wrote:Listening to Nick Mallett

81st minute Johnny May offside.
Just after that high tackle on Kriel
And then Farrel's shoulder.

In my opinion it doesn't matter, we should have taken England out of the match in the first 40.

Another utter pathetic Bok performance.

Simply no bloody consistency

Disagree totally, ref is there to make correct decisions, especially with technology.

AT that point it was a terrible decision, and what happened previously is not relevant

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:09 pm

Why did care kick it out. None of this would have mattered if the forwards just trucked ot up a few phases.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Taylorman on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:09 pm

Yes they cant complain, they had the better side overall and somehow let it slip away, several times. Something about some players not being able to step up.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:11 pm

I am really disappointed in the manner the Springboks control the important aspects of plays, but simply have no consisncy in the execution of basic tasks.

Four overthrows by Marx is unforgiveable, he should be dropped if he cannot execute his most important function.

De Allende had a great match, until his performance went to his head and he got cocky, first running with ball in one hand, not even tucked under his arm.

Then he hacked at a ball in the ruck stupidly giving away an easy penalty.

Diyanti and Nkosi are shooting in too much, they have become predictable on defence.

Too many box kicks in the second half.

Execution remains a headache
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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:12 pm

This view doesn't look like a tackle

https://twitter.com/SUNSHINENICK/status/1058765350031015937

Think we are lucky that view didn't come up on the screen.


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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:12 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Why did care kick it out. None of this would have mattered if the forwards just trucked ot up a few phases.
 Because all the forwards were in front of him.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:13 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Why did care kick it out. None of this would have mattered if the forwards just trucked ot up a few phases.

I think there was still about a minute to play so maybe worried that might turn it over close to the line or get pinged for something ...

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:13 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Why did care kick it out. None of this would have mattered if the forwards just trucked ot up a few phases.
 Because all the forwards were in front of him.

You mean in the ruck?

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:13 pm

Biltong wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
stub wrote:Not sure Bam Bam - replay looked like it was a big collision and he was trying (?) to wrap....

Exactly, it was a high speed challenge. His left arm wrapped fine.

Not sure how he wrapped his left arm if he was leading with his right shoulder

Can't see an issue with it personally.

Not too much to complain about from SA imo, they should have had 30pts on the board in the first.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by englishborn on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:14 pm

As with almost every match you can point to penalties awarded or not awarded for both sides, ones given or missed when the clock is red are always going to be talked about.

What matters is momentum, England should not have been in the position to win after the 1st half. As soon as the game up front became even or in England's favour it the game obviously turned. The penality count both forced and unforced gave England no platform and SA wasted theirs.

Encouraging signs from some of the new blood but hard to see anything but an AB win next week, if we can keep it acceptable then it will be something to continue to build off.


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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:14 pm

Heaf wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Why did care kick it out. None of this would have mattered if the forwards just trucked ot up a few phases.

I think there was still about a minute to play so maybe worried that might turn it over close to the line or get pinged for something ...

I think there was about 45 seconds or less no?

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:15 pm

Yes South Africa Frak that up, same as their match at Loftus vs the AB's

They are still a long way off putting teams away
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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:16 pm

Certainly improving though Billtong, you'll be a force by the WC.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:17 pm

Angus Gardner might get a slap on his wrist from his bosses over that decision I reckon. It was the wrong call and harsh on SA however they blew some many chances so didnt really deserve a win.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by protea438 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:18 pm

Biltong wrote:Yes South Africa Frak that up, same as their match at Loftus vs the AB's

They are still a long way off putting teams away

Come on mate relax, I hope you not one of those South Africans who enjoys bitching about South African teams every chance they get

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by englishborn on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:20 pm

protea438 wrote:
Biltong wrote:Yes South Africa Frak that up, same as their match at Loftus vs the AB's

They are still a long way off putting teams away

Come on mate relax, I hope you not one of those South Africans who enjoys bitching about South African teams every chance they get

God yes, enough England fans to do that to their own team, let us be the miserable ones, we are far more used to it.

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by stub on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:20 pm

Sinckler was very impressive...

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:20 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Certainly improving though Billtong, you'll be a force by the WC.

Im not convinced. Losses to Wales, England, Argentina and Australia etc. Away from home SA dont really scare anyone (except the ABs Shocked )

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:22 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Why did care kick it out. None of this would have mattered if the forwards just trucked ot up a few phases.

I think there was still about a minute to play so maybe worried that might turn it over close to the line or get pinged for something ...

I think there was about 45 seconds or less no?

You could be right but I guess he doesn't have such an accurate view of time remaining where he is ...

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

Post by Cyril on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:23 pm

Decent win for England considering the first half. We can build on that

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Re: England vs South Africa - 1st Quilter International

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