Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

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Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v South Africa
BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

Saturday 17th November
KO 17.00


Well another interesting game coming up between two old rivals.

Scotland found their form with a vengeance this Saturday, putting a much fancied Fiji side to the sword very emphatically. They are a team who have very good home form now and they will see this as their biggest test of the autumn.

South Africa are also on the up and playing much better under Erasmus, with a noticeable scalp of the All Blacks this season and beating England in a series over the summer. Recent form is a bit mixed, they lost a game they should have won against England and won a game they should have lost against France, so hard to know just what to read into that. It has been a long hard season for them and it is not going to be easy stringing together 4 hard tests in 4 weekends.

Scotland will have the advantage of having been able to rest and rotate a few of their players. The question remains though will Toonie go all out with his strongest team for this one (does he even know what his strongest team is?) or will he continue with some gentle tinkering, as is his want and maybe even introduce a few new players into the mix. Will we see Gary Graham capped for instance in his first appearance in a Scotland squad after a road to Damascus moment sometime over breakfast (humble pie on the menu) this weekend.

My stab at the Scotland team before we get a few clues with media interviews during the week:

Nel
McInally
Dell
Gray
Skinner
Wilson
Strauss
Watson
Laidlaw
Russell
Seymour
Dunbar
Jones H
Maitland
Hogg

Allen
Brown
Berghan
Gilchrist
Graham
Horne G
Hastings
Kinghorn



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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by jimbopip on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 2:40 pm

He's a teenage boy with an x-box and a smart tv in his room; taking it easy has never been a challenge.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 2:57 pm

Blimmey Jim,
that does not sound like a bundle of laughs. I hope he is fine and that your stress levels are manageable

enjoy the game if you do make it up.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 2:59 pm

jimbopip wrote:He's a teenage boy with an x-box and a smart tv in his room; taking it easy has never been a challenge.
Laugh clap

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by jimbopip on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 3:06 pm


Gee, I know we all tend to inhabit this forum as an alternative to real life but allow me to say this; across three departments and two hospitals and the ambulance) MrsPip and I have been overwhelmed by the professionalism and compassion of the nursing staff on the NHS. Take a bow gee for belonging to that band. clap
p.s. the only behaviour that might have been construed as striking a dissonant note came from the registrar who summoned a doctor from A&E at midnight on a Friday night to remove the cannular from Pipetto's chest. "WHy can't you do that? Wh call me a way from A&E?" Was met with, "I'm the registrar and I'm instructing you to do it. So do it." Erm

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by TJ on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 6:39 pm

Eejit wrote:.......................................

Scotland are developing some real depth at the moment. Too weird. Bring back Dan Parks.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by 123456789. on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 6:53 pm

TJ wrote:
Eejit wrote:.......................................

Scotland are developing some real depth at the moment. Too weird. Bring back Dan Parks.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Would actually welcome Dan Parks back into the squad with in an instant, he would be an ideal player to see out a game with Russell or Hastings there to start. If we had Laidlaw and Parks at half back we could literally kick the opposition out the game in the last 10 minutes. He was never an attacking fly-half, and spent the vast majority of his international career with Henderson or Morrison at 12 and De Luca or De Rollo at 13. In other words he was the wrong player in a bad team but he'd be an excellent addition to the squad as things stand. Say next week we're six points up with 10 to go, I'd rather had Dan Parks than Russell on the pitch getting us in the right area and knocking over DGs.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 7:03 pm

Eejit wrote:if you were to put together a combined Edinburgh Glasgow XV I reckon Gibbins would get the 7 over Watson.

You've properly lost the plot here son!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 7:43 pm

Dan Parks was a product of a Scotland team long gone. Easy to have a sepia tinted view of it, but let's be honest, it was crap. He may have kicked us to a few narrow victories but I would like to think that he would be no where near the team today.

I would rather have Duncy, he does the same thing but better!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by Eejit on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:10 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
Eejit wrote:if you were to put together a combined Edinburgh Glasgow XV I reckon Gibbins would get the 7 over Watson.

You've properly lost the plot here son!

Debate to be settled December 22nd 2019 in Murrayfield. The Mish turned over by Co-captain Gibbins to secure a 40 to zip win for the once and future champions.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:13 pm

Eejit wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
Eejit wrote:if you were to put together a combined Edinburgh Glasgow XV I reckon Gibbins would get the 7 over Watson.

You've properly lost the plot here son!

Debate to be settled December 22nd 2019 in Murrayfield. The Mish turned over by Co-captain Gibbins to secure a 40 to zip win for the once and future champions.

Blimey, I'll have some of what he's on! Hug

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:18 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5404193/Family-Calcutta-Cup-Gary-Graham-Scottish-Dad.html

The full Gary Graham interview. Certainly didn't sound like he was that keen to play for Scotland back then, and obviously has a huge chip on his shoulder. Hilarious hearing George Graham's comments!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:29 pm

There is no turning back. Graham is still eligible for Scotland but — still chasing his first Red Rose cap — he does not plan to switch allegiance.

Hilarious. I think he should feck off

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:39 pm

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2018/11/in-praise-of-gary-graham/

A slightly more balanced article I feel, though some of the comments are indicative of the feelings that are aroused.

The article that RDW pasted is in the Daily Mail, which should give you a hint to its slant straight away. It was a conversation between Gary Graham and his dad George and there was clearly a lot of joshing and winding up going on. You don't necessarily get the feel of that in print.

It is a bit reminiscent of Andy Murray joking about the England football team and the maelstrom that caused. That was the Daily Mail as well I believe.

I bet GG regretted that article as soon as he read it. He probably does not regret taking his chance with England though, even though EJ clearly never had any intention of playing him.

Toonie left it to him to clear the air and he has done that. Time to move on, he is in the Scotland squad now on merit and if he gets picked then we get behind him, like all the others.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by Eejit on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:41 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
There is no turning back. Graham is still eligible for Scotland but — still chasing his first Red Rose cap — he does not plan to switch allegiance.

Hilarious. I think he should feck off

Yes because Scottish rugby is in a position to be turning away genuine international quality players.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by tigertattie on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 8:53 pm

Eejit wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
There is no turning back. Graham is still eligible for Scotland but — still chasing his first Red Rose cap — he does not plan to switch allegiance.

Hilarious. I think he should feck off

Yes because Scottish rugby is in a position to be turning away genuine international quality players.

Hold on. He’s from Ayr?
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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 9:03 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2018/11/in-praise-of-gary-graham/

A slightly more balanced article I feel, though some of the comments are indicative of the feelings that are aroused.

The article that RDW pasted is in the Daily Mail, which should give you a hint to its slant straight away. It was a conversation between Gary Graham and his dad George and there was clearly a lot of joshing and winding up going on. You don't necessarily get the feel of that in print.

It is a bit reminiscent of Andy Murray joking about the England football team and the maelstrom that caused. That was the Daily Mail as well I believe.

I bet GG regretted that article as soon as he read it. He probably does not regret taking his chance with England though, even though EJ clearly never had any intention of playing him.

Toonie left it to him to clear the air and he has done that. Time to move on, he is in the Scotland squad now on merit and if he gets picked then we get behind him, like all the others.


That certainly is a more balanced article, but the problem GG has is his Daily Fail comments will always be there. I suspect they'll be there until he proves himself for Scotland, and even there they'll still alwsys be in the background. I'm sure it'll be front and centre if he's in the squad to play England! There's not a lot he can do about it now though other than roll his sleeves up and get on with it, and I'm sure it won't be easy to be eating humble pie just now.

Interesting that they chose Jamie Ritchie to interview today - he's basically had the completely opposite route to the top and is GG's main competition. Ritchie went to a private (boarding) school and was earmarked from a young age as one who will make it so has been given every opportunity and support since. That's no slight on Ritchie - he's worked his nuts off and his made the most of it to get to the top. The Edinburgh v Newcastle games are going to be interesting!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by 123456789. on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 9:33 pm

BigGee wrote:Dan Parks was a product of a Scotland team long gone. Easy to have a sepia tinted view of it, but let's be honest, it was crap. He may have kicked us to a few narrow victories but I would like to think that he would be no where near the team today.

I would rather have Duncy, he does the same thing but better!

I don't think Dan Parks was great but he was a better player than Duncan Weir. If Duncan Weir hadn't been Scottish, and hadn't come through when he did he wouldn't be playing at the level he is now. He can barely pass a rugby ball and when he does it tends to go to the opposition a suspiciously large amount of times. Dan Parks was often dire but when he turned it on i.e Ireland/ South Africa 2010 he reached a level I'm not sure Weir ever had the chance to in a Scotland shirt. On the other hand I can't think of a single professional rugby game in which Duncan Weir has dominated. Although apparently he's playing quite well for Worcester, but I don't think he should be near the world cup squad.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:07 pm

I don't think we will ever know what kind of player Dan Parks could have been.

He was orchestrating a back line that had no pace and no guile with a poorish pack in front of him and unimaginative coaching. He did not really have any choice other than to sit back in the box and kick it to the corners, which he did very well.

He was a product of his times, that kind of rugby just won't wash today. If he was playing today, he would be a very different player or we would never have heard of him.

Duncy is actually playing pretty well at the moment. He always had a bit more to his game than we gave him credit for but he was a confidence player, who lost it badly when more talented players like Finn came into the Glasgow set up. Moving out of the Scottish bubble has done him good and he is playing with a lot more freedom now.

Baring injuries, I agree he is not going to the next world cup, but after FR and AH, he is probably next in line.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:27 pm

https://theoffsideline.com/jamie-ritchie-scotland-gary-graham/

Jamie Ritchie first up for press this week, which is usually a good indication that they will be in the squad!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by Exiledinborders on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:38 pm

Eejit wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
There is no turning back. Graham is still eligible for Scotland but — still chasing his first Red Rose cap — he does not plan to switch allegiance.

Hilarious. I think he should feck off

Yes because Scottish rugby is in a position to be turning away genuine international quality players.
Well Jones had a close look at him and clearly now thinks he is not international quality.

I suspect Graham looked at the England back row in the last two weeks together with the options currently out of action through injury and thought he had no chance with England.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:54 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
Eejit wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
There is no turning back. Graham is still eligible for Scotland but — still chasing his first Red Rose cap — he does not plan to switch allegiance.

Hilarious. I think he should feck off

Yes because Scottish rugby is in a position to be turning away genuine international quality players.
Well Jones had a close look at him and clearly now thinks he is not international quality.

I suspect Graham looked at the England back row in the last two weeks together with the options currently out of action through injury and thought he had no chance with England.

To be honest, I don't think you know if any player really is international quality until you try them out in that environment.

I suspect Graham realised a while back that he had been played by EJ, who only picked him for the squad to make a point about losing EQ players to other countries. He never had any intention of playing him, whether he was good enough or not. It was probably not easy for him to row back on his position, so fair play to him.

Graham certainly is not going to walk into the Scotland side either as we are not short of some half decent back row players. I think that he will be given a decent crack of the whip and will get picked if he is good enough though and that is all any player can ask for.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by 123456789. on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 12:23 am

I don't think Gary Graham will be at the top of the tree for England or Scotland anytime soon regardless, at the moment there's a lot of players ahead of him and this smacks of trying to get as wide a pool as possible pre-world cup. I'd say ahead of him in the back row queue off the top of my head, in no particular order we have Barclay, Watson, Wilson, Denton, Bradbury, Ritchie, Strauss, Thomson, Hardie, Ashe and Matt Fagerson (There may be more that I can't think of) and then in and around him you have the likes of Du Preez, Rob Harley and Luke Hamilton who are in and around him. Then in terms of the world cup squad I suspect we won't see that much out and out back-row depth on the basis that Brown, McInally and potentially Skinner are all players who can cover back row. I'd put him in our 4th or 5th choice back row currently. Currently Eddie Jones seems more likely to pick his next door neighbour.

In terms of that article what he has a chip on his shoulder when it comes to Scotland I have no idea about, prior to being called up by England he'd played 6 months of top tier rugby, before it was Jersey. At the start of the year he said he thought he'd be lucky to play a game for Newcastle. Was he playing for Jersey watching Watson and Barclay tearing it up for Scotland wondering why he wasn't being picked following his cracking performance against Bedford or some other unimportant English club wondering why he wasn't getting the call up for the next week?

He goes on about not being from the "right background" but his Dad played for Scotland, that seems to be a fairly decent background. A lot of the Borders boys didn't go through the private school system, Duncan Weir did not go through the private school system neither did Grant Gilchrist nor did the Hornes or lots of others probably. It smacks of someone trying to give themselves reasons that they haven't done as well as they believe they deserve to. I really hope he's very, very good for us and has an absolute stormer and goes on to be a Scotland great but his interviews as of yet don't spin very well.

Although one of them was in the mail so perhaps my character assassination is a bit soon...

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by George Carlin on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 10:22 am

Eejit wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
  Parks-G-Dog-BigBad furious probably the best attacking three quarter combination Scotland never put out.

Vernon? He plays where he wants.
Largely above the ground, as I remember the Philosopher Johnson once saying.
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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 10:48 am

Toonie is nothing if not persistent and persuasive. It does seem that he has been in contact with GG for quite some time and never gave up on him as an option. He clearly fancies him as a player who can add something to the squad. Having watched him play for the Falcons, he may well be right.

I expect that having backed himself into a bit of a corner last year with that interview, it was not all that easy to come out and do the public back track that we saw yesterday, but Toonie knew that it was necessary for him to do that in order to redeem himself.

Toonie apparently is also still in contact with Ben Vellacott and is hoping that he will commit to Scotland as well. He is not as far down the route as GG and was also someone who was likely being played a bit by EJ. The fact that they are mentioning that publicly might mea it is already decided.

He is another very good player and would be a very good fit for Edinburgh if they could land him, he is out of contract at Gloucester this season and is looking to move on.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 12:54 pm

I'm just wondering if there is any evidence to support these theories going around that Eddie Jones was playing games and trying to make a point by calling up Gary Graham originally? Could it not just be the case that he brought him in, had a look at him and decided he wasn't up to it or wasn't what he was looking for?

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 1:56 pm

EJ is never going to admit that is he.

The timing was co-incidental for both him and Vellacott, just after the SRU announced its SQ program with great fanfare, especially talking about players in England with Scottish heritage.

At the time Graham had only played about 6 games for Newcastle, so he was nowhere near ready for international rugby. Vellacott was not even starting at Gloucester, Redpath was still at school.

I have no problem with any of these players choosing England over Scotland. It is especially difficult for young players at the start of their careers to make themselves NEQ, it may well have an impact on their future career prospects and we should never judge them on that basis.

What international coaches should do though is let the players develop to the point where they are ready for international rugby and not try and force their hands before that point. Giving someone a cap to tie them in, then never playing them again both devalues the jersey and short changes the player.

It is a conspiracy theory I know, but EJ brings these things on himself by the way he plays games normally.

Gary Graham may or may not be good enough for international rugby. The Falcons fans who watch him regularly seem to think he is. Probably the only way to find out for sure is to try him out.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by George Carlin on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 2:14 pm

BigGee wrote:EJ is never going to admit that is he.

The timing was co-incidental for both him and Vellacott, just after the SRU announced its SQ program with great fanfare, especially talking about players in England with Scottish heritage.

At the time Graham had only played about 6 games for Newcastle, so he was nowhere near ready for international rugby. Vellacott was not even starting at Gloucester, Redpath was still at school.

I have no problem with any of these players choosing England over Scotland. It is especially difficult for young players at the start of their careers to make themselves NEQ, it may well have an impact on their future career prospects and we should never judge them on that basis.

What international coaches should do though is let the players develop to the point where they are ready for international rugby and not try and force their hands before that point. Giving someone a cap to tie them in, then never playing them again both devalues the jersey and short changes the player.

It is a conspiracy theory I know, but EJ brings these things on himself by the way he plays games normally.

Gary Graham may or may not be good enough for international rugby. The Falcons fans who watch him regularly seem to think he is. Probably the only way to find out for sure is to try him out.
Stop talking so much sense on these boards, Gee - it denigrates everything that they stand for (jingoism, sledging, wilful blindness and innuendo).
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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 2:17 pm

Jones regularly calls players up to have a close look at them training. It's been noted he often rates that as better than judging them by games in the league. It's no a conspiracy for keeping.players who qualify to play for England but ensuring he and coaches think they are good enough.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 3:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Jones regularly calls players up to have a close look at them training. It's been noted he often rates that as better than judging them by games in the league. It's no a conspiracy for keeping.players who qualify to play for England but ensuring he and coaches think they are good enough.

This is probably accurate, but I don't doubt they (graham, Velacott, redpath) were called up specifically because they were dual qualified and Scotland were looking at them. No issue with it, I just assume EJ didn't want to lose them from his pool of players without casting his eye over them first. He might very well have deemed that GG doesn't fit in with how he wants to play, or that he's not good enough and subsequently let him go.

I don't think it was some cunning plan or him making a statement, purely doing due diligence on players before taking the risk they would get capped by another nation. He likely wouldn't have called them up had the SRU not called out the exiles programme

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 3:48 pm

Possibly. But I then don't feel he'd have bothered if they weren't on his radar either.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by George Carlin on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:16 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Eejit wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
There is no turning back. Graham is still eligible for Scotland but — still chasing his first Red Rose cap — he does not plan to switch allegiance.

Hilarious. I think he should feck off

Yes because Scottish rugby is in a position to be turning away genuine international quality players.

Hold on. He’s from Ayr?
Very Happy World cl...(snip)
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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by George Carlin on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:17 pm

Jim - just read the past 2 pages. Scary stuff for everyone involved - hope that your boy is all right.
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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by jimbopip on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:28 pm

George, he is causing his sister no end of outrage. He had an X-box wheeled to his bed yesterday. Today a teacher came in and helped him fill in an application for Sixth Form College. THEN the charity that visits the hospital delivered a Domino's Pizza to him. And he's in a single room with en-suite. All I can hear is Princess Daughter screaming, "There was nothing like that when I was ill!"


It's a bit like you and I telling the other ne'erdowells on here to enjoy Russell, Horne, Hastings, Jones, Hogg while hey can because there was nothing like that when we were young. Seriously there were brilliant players but they were spread thin over the years. This current crop is wonderous to behold.

Oh and Pipetto is making steady progress, we'll find out how much tomorrow with any luck.


Last edited by jimbopip on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Possibly. But I then don't feel he'd have bothered if they weren't on his radar either.

I would largely agree with you, but Redpath I don't think had played a min of prem rugby when he was called into the England squad. I think you are right that GG and Velacott might have been, but neither were playing loads for their club (maybe Velacott was) when they were first called up.

EJ might have had them on his radar, but they were likely pretty far down his list, and moved up due to Scotland's interest.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by jimbopip on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:44 pm

You know the alarm clock goes off and Mrs Jones says,

"Good morning cobber. Cor strangle a wallaby and call me Sheila but you look pensive, Eddie"

"Yeah! Just can't figure out who to piss off first today. Ah bugger me with a dingo's didgereedoo I'll wind up the Jocks, it must be their turn."

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 6:46 pm

Yes and no. Look at Hill mercer and smith. He's regularly calling up these guys miles before he believes they're ready. More that he's scouting far ahead no matter what.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by George Carlin on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 7:30 pm

jimbopip wrote:George, he is causing his sister no end of outrage. He had an X-box wheeled to his bed yesterday. Today a teacher came in and helped him fill in an application for Sixth Form College. THEN the charity that visits the hospital delivered a Domino's Pizza to him. And he's in a single room with en-suite. All I can hear is Princess Daughter screaming, "There was nothing like that when I was ill!"


It's a bit like you and I telling the other ne'erdowells on here to enjoy Russell, Horne, Hastings, Jones, Hogg while hey can because there was nothing like that when we were young. Seriously there were brilliant players but they were spread thin over the years. This current crop is wonderous to behold.

Oh and Pipetto is making steady progress, we'll find out how much tomorrow with any luck.
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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by Hazel Sapling on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 9:41 pm

With Gary Graham, if he felt hard done by the SRU and felt Scotland had died a death, why not take £25k a cap for England from a career point of view? It is not like he has had high earnings for the last five years and already on a good packet. His first real payday arrived in April. He may only get one more after this considering the attrition rate in rugby.

Really have no idea what Toonie is going to pick. Think TT put up a team earlier and BG has as well that are probably close to what I would guess. My difference to BG is to start Toolis-Gilchrist and put Gray and Skinner on the bench, no Graham.

Graham can start in the Argentina game. Cummings can get a look-in then as well.

P.S. Hope that Pipetto gets whatever it is solved Mr Pip. I hear children are stressful, can't imagine this helps

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by jimbopip on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 9:56 pm

Children are stressful Ms Sapling, almost as stressful as imagining a Toolis-GG second row against Sarf Effrika. Shocked



1. Dell (Allan)

2. Rambo (Brown)

3. Nel (Berghan)

4. Jonny

5. Toolis (Skinner, GGmk1 has not impressed so far. He may be as divisive as Mrs Gibbins)

6. Mrs Gibbins

7. Hamish (Fagerson, if he's not fit then GG ,the rugby player not the big Jessie, can become tied to us)

8. Bluto

9. Frodo (toss a coin, if we're ahead Wee George would run riot counter attacking, but if it's still trench warfare then Aldi Price)

10. Dancer (Hastings)

11. Sleepy Sean

12. Eck

13 Jones (Furra Linee)

14 Seymour

15. Baby Please Don't Go, as Van The Man sang.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 12:43 am

My take on the Graham situation is that we should welcome him with open arms. Yes, he said something silly which I think it's clear he now regrets. There are plenty daft players in the squad, so plenty room for one more. If he's good enough then he should be in the squad, and those who have seen plenty of him deem him good enough.

That said, I can't see him starting. I think Skinner will start at 6, with Wilson and Watson completing the back row. I'd expect Strauss and Ritchie on the bench, so I think Toonie Will make him wait.

I was at the Fiji game. Great turnout and a strong performance overall. The Hastings try was a cracker.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 12:47 am

Also worth a mention was Chris Harris. I have had strong doubts over his capabilities but he showed up well against Fiji. He's deceptively quick. With Scott, Bennett and Taylor keeping Dr Robson busy full time, he adds a welcome option.

That said, come back Huw Jones!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by takethelongroad on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 12:49 am

For me:
Dell, McInally, Nel
Gilchrist, Gray
Batman, Bluto, Watson
Greeeeeeig, Russell.
Maitland, Dunbar, HJones, Seymour
Hogg.

Liked our tempo better last autumn, like our set piece more this season. Hogg kicking penalties to touch is a big plus. Strauss carries like no-one else we have. First signs of recovery from a bad kidney laceration against France looked good, confidence in heavy traffic can take a while to come back. . Happy to lose close games this autumn if lessons are learned by the 6n. Let’s see what we can do against a more physical but less structured defence than Wales.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by jimbopip on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 8:28 am

Not a bad side Mr Road, but I really do struggle to see what Gilchrist does to earn his salt. I know that early in the season Cockers sat him down and said, I paraphrase, " People say you're potentially a great second row but I honestly can't see it." Granted, no pun intended, GG then improved his performances and Cockers now thinks quite highly of him. I wasn't being flippant when I said he was as divisive as Batman; lots of very good coaches pick him, make him captain even, but a lot of us can't see what he actually does. Similarly, Batman is always one of the first names down for me but lots on here can't see what he adds to the team.

Skinner has muddied the selection waters; I think he might start at 6 with Batman at 8 and Bluto benching. That would certainly add ballast to the scrum. However, my mind keeps going back to St James' Park and the way the Boks won every collision. It's difficult to play rugby when you're constantly being knocked backwards. Have we added enough grunt to prevent that happening?

Fingers crossed I'll be there to see whether we have or not.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 11:28 am






Head Coach Gregor Townsend today named six personnel changes to the starting Scotland side to face South Africa in this Saturday’s Autumn Test match at BT Murrayfield (17 November, kick-off 5.20pm) – live on BT Sport and BBC.

The home side last faced the Springboks in the Pool rounds of Rugby World Cup 2015, losing 36-14 at St James’ Park in Newcastle, with the 2010 Autumn Tests the most recent home success on a day where stand-off Dan Parks kicked all of Scotland’s points to win 21-17.

The return of Glasgow Warriors centre Huw Jones is the only change to the back division, with Scotland’s pack featuring the remaining five.

London Irish prop Gordon Reid is set for his first involvement in the autumn campaign as the starting loosehead, with the remaining four those rotated or rested for last weekend’s home win over Fiji.

Vice captain Stuart McInally (hooker) and lock Jonny Gray return from the bench to start once more, while second-row Ben Toolis and back-row Hamish Watson come back into the match-day squad to start.

The final change to the pack is a positional switch for last Saturday’s man-of-the-match winning debutant, Sam Skinner, who starts in the blind-side flank position where he finished the Fiji Test, having started at lock.

Head Coach Gregor Townsend – Assistant Coach at the time of the 2010 win – said: “South Africa have made a lot of improvements over the last three or four months, beating the All Blacks in New Zealand and putting in an 80-minute performance to defeat France in Paris, which underlines their quality.

“Their traditional strength has always been their physicality and this remains a key point of difference for them. We expect them to be confrontational and powerful in their ball carrying, their defence and also at set-piece time. It will be a great challenge for our forward pack in particular.

“South Africa have always had a smart kicking game with an excellent chase but what we’ve seen over the past few months is an ambition to move the ball from counter attack and a push to get their forwards passing the ball more.

“Our defence will have to be strong to nullify this ambitious attacking game plan.

“We’re looking forward to playing one of the best teams in the world and playing once more in front of a sell-out crowd at BT Murrayfield.”

Tighthead prop Willem Nel, back-row Ryan Wilson and wing Tommy Seymour – who scored a hat-trick against Fiji – are the only three players named to start at third consecutive Test match this autumn.

Seymour joins full-back Start Hogg and wing Sean Maitland – who scored his fourth consecutive try in a BT Murrayfield Test – in the back-three, at centre Pete Horne is named alongside returning clubmate Jones, while half-backs Greig Laidlaw and Finn Russell feature once more.

Scrum-half Ali Price returns to the Scotland squad for the first time since starting against Wales, on the bench.

Back-row Matt Fagerson has not recoveed sufficiently from the dead leg he sustained against Fiji to feature against South Africa.

Scotland team to play South Africa at BT Murrayfield


Saturday 17 November (kick-off 5.20pm) – live on BT Sport and BBC

15. Stuart Hogg VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 63 caps

14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 45 caps
13. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
12. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 37 caps
11. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 35 caps

10. Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 38 caps
9. Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Clermont Auvergne) – 64 caps

1. Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 32 caps
2. Stuart McInally VICE CAPTAIN (Edinburgh) – 20 caps
3. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 24 caps
4. Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 13 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 45 caps
6. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 1 cap
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 21 caps
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 39 caps

Substitutes:
16. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 36 caps
17. Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 15 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 12 caps
19. Josh Strauss (Sales Sharks) – 15 caps
20. Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps
22. Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
23. Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 5 caps



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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by Tramptastic on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 11:29 am

The Tombola strikes again!!

Gorden Reid at 1??? horne at 12 and no dunbar??

Victory through insanity

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 11:30 am

Scotland by 10 points.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 11:35 am

Well Toonie rolls the tombola as only he can.

6 changes, some predicted, some not. Did anyone see Gordon Reid coming in, not me!

It does seem that he is looking at some combos, Horne and Jones in the centre this time around, who could easily be replaced with Hastings and Harris if it is not working.

Sam Skinner gets to have a try out in the back row this time around and with no second row on the bench, will not doubt move up at some stage to let Ritchie and Strauss come into the back row later on in the game. that does sound like a bit of meaningful impact and also suggests that he thinks young Skinner has a very good engine on him!

Looks like he is giving others a fair crack of the whip, Ali Price, who was not brilliant against Wales, gets a run off the bench over George Horne, who was very good when he came on in both games. I think we might see him get the start against Argentina, he probably deserves it.

It may not be our strongest team, but it looks pretty solid and suggests we do have a bit of depth these days.

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by Tramptastic on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 11:40 am

I am gutted for Scott being injured as this would have been a really good game to chuck him back in

He's physical and a good distributor so it would have been good to check out how his defensive issues have come along!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by tigertattie on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 11:51 am

Gotta love Toonie eh. He always does at least one daft thing to confuse everyone.

Remember this is a 4 game series so there was bound to be rotation but Toonie just goes mental sometimes.

1. I was right, Skinner at 6 for grunt and reward for his efforts last week. But to have no 2nd row cover on the bench. I know Skinner covers 2nd row but surely you'd still want cover???

2. Why have Skinner for bulk then have Wilson playing 8? He's knickers for crying out loud! Struass should have started with Wilson on the bench. For all Ritchie's great effor last week, I'd actually have rested him this week and started him agaisnt Arg and would have given his bench spot to Glichrist!

3. Gordie Reid. Oh well go on yersel son.

4. Wee Horne hasnt had much game time. I'd never have dropped him for Glacial Price.

5. Sorry Adam, but I don't see the point in having another 10 on the bench when Wee Grieg, Horne and even his Hoggness are on the field. Kinghorn should be benching to cover 15 and wing.

No way are the boys going to have the arm chair ride they got last week. I can see the bench needing to be emptied by the 60 min mark and I hope the boys selected can do the job. Thankfully, Toolis and Gray are 80 min men and our front row cover is strong. The pack is going to have a proper test this week!
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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

Post by BigGee on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 11:56 am

He is going to give the Hastings/Russell 10/12 combo another crack, you just know he will, it is just to appealing to resist!

Seriously though going forward, the 12 shirt is the one we are having the most trouble with so maybe this does come into play. We will get a better idea against some serious opposition this weekend.

If it works, we may see it starting against Argentina!

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Re: Scotland v South Africa Saturday 17th November

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