England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

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England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 11:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday 17th November 2018
Time: 15:00
Location: Twickenham Stadium

Referee:       Paul Williams (NZ)
Assistant 1:  Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2:  Dan Jones (Wales)
TMO:            Marius Jonker (SA)




Teams


England
 
Squad:

Forwards
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors) *, Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

*Apprentice

 



Japan


TBC


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:36 pm

Japan’s second try is the best of the game so far. They’re playing brilliantly and their offloading game is exquisite. England are as disjointed as their team selection.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:42 pm

Do England know what......tackling is?

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Taylorman on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:45 pm

Well England have had it tough last two weeks so they need to regroup at half time. Japan are now Super rugby exposed even though theyre not winning but cant be taken lightly. Smacks of SAs match in 2015.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:48 pm

I thought when you were tackled you had to release the ball and get back to your feet again before picking up the ball?

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:48 pm

Deserved lead for Japan at half-time. Eddie Jones needs to find a hairdryer and deploy it at maximum velocity. Work rate lacking, tackling abysmal, kicking out of hand very poor and the discipline is atrocious.

Really enjoying Japan's play, mind!

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Cumbrian on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:50 pm

This is what happens when you make such stupid player selections. A Second row at six, a blindside/eight at seven, a wing in the centre and a centre at fullback. FFS
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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:51 pm

England being shown up here by a team that ( on paper) England should win Easy.

But we are not on paper and England looking like a team that as never played the game before. England need to liven up in the second half or a massive upset on the cards.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:58 pm

I am very disappointed at the way England are playing.

Japan are playing some lovely rugby making England fight and scramble like hell for the ball.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 3:59 pm

England - 2:20 in the Japanese 22.
Japan - 15:43 in the English 22.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:01 pm

England have been poor, Japan very good.

But the officials need to watch out for them getting up after being tackled and playing on without properly releasing the ball and getting on their feet first - done it a couple of times and one was right in front of the posts so probably 3 points for England.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Cumbrian on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:04 pm

Daly beaten to yet another up and under this autumn...
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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:06 pm

Finally someone gets pinged for a tackle off the ball ...

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:14 pm

Typical Nige calls England offside when Japan have been offside at most rucks ...

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:14 pm

Love the energy Japan is playing with
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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:16 pm

Yep they are certainly putting in an excellent performance

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:18 pm

Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.


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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:21 pm

Nice try by Wilson
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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:21 pm

That was nice from England . more of the same please.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:21 pm

England back in the lead. Japan clearly tiring, conceding more penalties and starting to drop off tackles.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Taylorman on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:25 pm

Japans going to run out of heavy firepower. England should start rolling over them within the next ten mins.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:25 pm

kingelderfield wrote:Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.

We could still lose this yet ...

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:34 pm

England adding some late gloss to the scoreline.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by lostinwales on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:35 pm

Heaf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.

We could still lose this yet ...

No we won't

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Cumbrian on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:41 pm

Moral of this story? When you have nearly a whole first team worth of injuries don't start piissing about with player positions, pick the strongest team available. I am sure the narrative will go 'Japan tired...' but the game changed when England brought more first teamers on.

That is taking nothing away from Japan, they play the game the way it should be played, it was beautiful for 40 minutes. It helps when literally EVERYTHING you try comes off.
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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:41 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Heaf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.

We could still lose this yet ...

No we won't

That's my tactic - say it hoping it won't happen Smile

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:46 pm

Wasn't that a tackle without the ball?

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:55 pm

A good win for England in the end. But Japan at one time was looking very dangerous.

A lot more work to do for next week.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:55 pm

Hay boys,
Weird day, eh?
Japan work hard as heck, but when Farrell came on things seemed to have a bit more direction and urgency.

Farrell has really grown in importance to this team in a million ways....

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:56 pm

They really need to stop this diving at anyone within 5 yards of the ruck ...

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by nathan on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:57 pm

I think Ford's half time team talk had an impact, he was giving them a bollocking. But ford won't get any credit for it.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by nathan on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 4:58 pm

Heaf, it was allowed in the first half and then correctly penalised in the second half. My wife got annoyed with me mentioning it every 2 minutes.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:01 pm

Yep except he forgot near the end as they stated doing it again ... think they were perhaps a bit over excited ...

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Barney McGrew did it on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:10 pm

Well, it's important to give the B-side a run-out. Shame they're more the level of a C-side. The makeshift midfield didn't work, nor the BR (who'd have thunk it). Daley could do with not dropping the ball so much, and Care keeps proving he's not a starter. Good to see the old man Wiggles get a waddle out. Pretty sure not developing a more seasoned (or any) 3rd SH or hooker is going to come back and bite us.

Still, Itoje & Lawes looked good - shame they weren't the 2nd row. And Cokanasiga looked a beast going forward.
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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:14 pm

Was it me or were the officials as bad as England?

So many offsides, mainly by Japan but not always going unpunished.

Knock-ons just ignored, I counted 5 in a three minute spell, none given.

Slade tackled without the ball and the replays clearly showing it, scrum Japan.

The Japanese player runs at Slade, gets tackled releases the ball whilst still going forward, Slade tries to pick up and possibly knocks on. Scrum Japan.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:23 pm

They were pretty lax ....

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:27 pm

as in.......ative, I agree SH!TE!

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:28 pm

nathan wrote:Heaf, it was allowed in the first half and then correctly penalised in the second half.  My wife got annoyed with me mentioning it every 2 minutes.
Funny, she said the same to me......

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:42 pm

One of those funny games where the officials get pulled into the minnow story. Pretty poor in the first half there where it's felt that Japan are playing smart rugby but in actual fact they're playing the ball offside and not releasing. I think the match confirms wilson ain't a 7 in a million years and lacks a bit of composure. Have to remember he's still very inexperienced at this level though. Cokanasiga did everything asked of him well with ashton injured possibly he may be tempted to put jim on the bench.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:47 pm

Lawes was my motm. Thought he looked like a back row for once. Carried strongly. Poached strongly.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:57 pm

When you consider all the first choicers out through inury..then all the players in there today...with Farrell etc on the bench it was going to be a bit disjointed.

Now imainge the first choicers back..with one or two of these lads being brought in...and it bodes well.

Cokasaniga had a good game. Huge potential there...and the huge power runner we have been missing.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by alcoombe on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 5:58 pm

Can we stop the Daly at 15 experiment now please? He's probably England's most talented back, but FB is his third best position. He's got a long way to go under the high ball and as a last up tackler at test level. Fine as a backup, but not a starter for must win games.

We need to be getting the ball into his hands more, and he's at his best taking the ball on or close to the line. Within this England structure, that is best done at his fovoured position, 13, or as a roaming wing. Don't place limits on your most skillful player just because they are so versatile!

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by yappysnap on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 6:05 pm

Why did we bother to mix the team up so much?!

All this jas shown us is that Japan is a tough nut to crack and our 3rd/4th choice options arent too great.

A wasted game.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 6:05 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Cokasaniga had a good game. Huge potential there...and the huge power runner we have been missing.

He looks like a keeper
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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by Heaf on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 6:13 pm

Wish we'd managed to keep him at London Irish but just like most of our other decent academy players he ended up at Bath Sad

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 6:20 pm

Daly does look like he needs to improve under the high ball. Not sure he's won one yet. Watson when he comes back will be favourite to retake 15.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 6:21 pm

He impressed me in two ways though.
when he got the ball he ran at top pace with intent...boom..like a steam train, so many of our players don't.

The other thing though was that he seems to have brains on his shoulders. Some nice touches...good support lines, good lay offs etc. One to work with.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 6:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes was my motm. Thought he looked like a back row for once. Carried strongly.  Poached strongly.

I have been saying this for a long time at Prem level, this is the first time I have seen him use his poacher skills at test level. I still think he is England's best lineout option, especially with Hartley throwing, the Hartley/Lawes combo is better then the George/Itoje. Probably as he is usually jumping at 4/5, he gets so much higher than Itoje and with his extra couple of inches and those long arms, he is very difficult to attack in the line out.

Still prefer him at lock alongside a powerhouse like Itoje, it gives us 4 backrowers without diminishing the tight 5.

I though Underhill made a big difference when he came on, I am thinking Curry's time is going to be limited to the bench if Underhill stays fit.

What was going wrong with the lineout in the first half, bad throwing, bad jumping or good defending?

I agree Cokanasiga looks the real deal, can't think what more he could have done. If Ashton is out next week I can see him starting with May.

Farrell's influence on the side was very apparent, he is becoming undropable.

Hepburn looks too lightweight for me, too lightweight, the Moon /Sinckler duo look much better

Next week needs to be a full 80 minutes, not 40 like the last two games.




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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by No9 on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 8:25 pm

England has to fire Eddie now, if they are going to have a chance of getting out of the pool stages of the RWC.

Thank god the RFU are so thick they won’t do it.

Japan beating England for 60mins in Twickenham. Well done Japan. The Wallabies will rip England apart.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 8:29 pm

No9 wrote:England has to fire Eddie now, if they are going to have a chance of getting out of the pool stages of the RWC.

Thank god the RFU are so thick they won’t  do it.

Japan beating England for 60mins in Twickenham. Well done Japan. The Wallabies will rip England apart.

Enjoy your evening... thumbsup

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 8:33 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes was my motm. Thought he looked like a back row for once. Carried strongly.  Poached strongly.

I have been saying this for a long time at Prem level, this is the first time I have seen him use his poacher skills at test level. I still think he is England's best lineout option, especially with Hartley throwing, the Hartley/Lawes combo is better then the George/Itoje. Probably as he is usually jumping at 4/5, he gets so much higher than Itoje and with his extra couple of inches and those long arms, he is very difficult to attack in the line out.

Still prefer him at lock alongside a powerhouse like Itoje, it gives us 4 backrowers without diminishing the tight 5.

I though Underhill made a big difference when he came on, I am thinking Curry's time is going to be limited to the bench if Underhill stays fit.

What was going wrong with the lineout in the first half, bad throwing, bad jumping or good defending?

I agree Cokanasiga looks the real deal, can't think what more he could have done. If Ashton is out next week I can see him starting with May.

Farrell's influence on the side was very apparent, he is becoming undropable.

Hepburn looks too lightweight for me, too lightweight, the Moon /Sinckler duo look much better

Next week needs to be a full 80 minutes, not 40 like the last two games.


Im a big fan of young Curry, but I have to admit..when Underhill is fit and on form...he's a seriously physical player on thank flank! Next week will be a benchmark for him up against the Aussie 7's.

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Re: England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

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