England vs Japan - 3rd Quilter International

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday 17th November 2018
Time: 15:00
Location: Twickenham Stadium

Referee:       Paul Williams (NZ)
Assistant 1:  Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2:  Dan Jones (Wales)
TMO:            Marius Jonker (SA)




Teams


England
 
Squad:

Forwards
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors) *, Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

*Apprentice

 



Japan


TBC


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Post by Duty281 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:36 am

Japan’s second try is the best of the game so far. They’re playing brilliantly and their offloading game is exquisite. England are as disjointed as their team selection.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:42 am

Do England know what......tackling is?

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:45 am

Well England have had it tough last two weeks so they need to regroup at half time. Japan are now Super rugby exposed even though theyre not winning but cant be taken lightly. Smacks of SAs match in 2015.

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:48 am

I thought when you were tackled you had to release the ball and get back to your feet again before picking up the ball?

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Post by Duty281 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:48 am

Deserved lead for Japan at half-time. Eddie Jones needs to find a hairdryer and deploy it at maximum velocity. Work rate lacking, tackling abysmal, kicking out of hand very poor and the discipline is atrocious.

Really enjoying Japan's play, mind!

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:50 am

This is what happens when you make such stupid player selections. A Second row at six, a blindside/eight at seven, a wing in the centre and a centre at fullback. FFS
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:51 am

England being shown up here by a team that ( on paper) England should win Easy.

But we are not on paper and England looking like a team that as never played the game before. England need to liven up in the second half or a massive upset on the cards.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:58 am

I am very disappointed at the way England are playing.

Japan are playing some lovely rugby making England fight and scramble like hell for the ball.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:59 am

England - 2:20 in the Japanese 22.
Japan - 15:43 in the English 22.

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:01 am

England have been poor, Japan very good.

But the officials need to watch out for them getting up after being tackled and playing on without properly releasing the ball and getting on their feet first - done it a couple of times and one was right in front of the posts so probably 3 points for England.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:04 am

Daly beaten to yet another up and under this autumn...
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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:06 am

Finally someone gets pinged for a tackle off the ball ...

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:14 am

Typical Nige calls England offside when Japan have been offside at most rucks ...

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Post by Biltong on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:14 am

Love the energy Japan is playing with
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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:16 am

Yep they are certainly putting in an excellent performance

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Post by kingelderfield on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:18 am

Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.


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Post by Biltong on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:21 am

Nice try by Wilson
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:21 am

That was nice from England . more of the same please.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:21 am

England back in the lead. Japan clearly tiring, conceding more penalties and starting to drop off tackles.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:25 am

Japans going to run out of heavy firepower. England should start rolling over them within the next ten mins.

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:25 am

kingelderfield wrote:Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.

We could still lose this yet ...

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Post by Duty281 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:34 am

England adding some late gloss to the scoreline.

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Post by lostinwales on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:35 am

Heaf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.

We could still lose this yet ...

No we won't

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:41 am

Moral of this story? When you have nearly a whole first team worth of injuries don't start piissing about with player positions, pick the strongest team available. I am sure the narrative will go 'Japan tired...' but the game changed when England brought more first teamers on.

That is taking nothing away from Japan, they play the game the way it should be played, it was beautiful for 40 minutes. It helps when literally EVERYTHING you try comes off.
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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:41 am

lostinwales wrote:
Heaf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:Reality check.
I posted before the NZ game how such a result would provide another red herring of a conclusion, and so today is showing.
We'll go on to win today but what a top down failure.

We could still lose this yet ...

No we won't

That's my tactic - say it hoping it won't happen Smile

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:46 am

Wasn't that a tackle without the ball?

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:55 am

A good win for England in the end. But Japan at one time was looking very dangerous.

A lot more work to do for next week.

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Post by doctor_grey on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:55 am

Hay boys,
Weird day, eh?
Japan work hard as heck, but when Farrell came on things seemed to have a bit more direction and urgency.

Farrell has really grown in importance to this team in a million ways....

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:56 am

They really need to stop this diving at anyone within 5 yards of the ruck ...

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Post by nathan on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:57 am

I think Ford's half time team talk had an impact, he was giving them a bollocking. But ford won't get any credit for it.

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Post by nathan on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:58 am

Heaf, it was allowed in the first half and then correctly penalised in the second half. My wife got annoyed with me mentioning it every 2 minutes.

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:01 am

Yep except he forgot near the end as they stated doing it again ... think they were perhaps a bit over excited ...

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Post by Barney McGrew did it on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:10 am

Well, it's important to give the B-side a run-out. Shame they're more the level of a C-side. The makeshift midfield didn't work, nor the BR (who'd have thunk it). Daley could do with not dropping the ball so much, and Care keeps proving he's not a starter. Good to see the old man Wiggles get a waddle out. Pretty sure not developing a more seasoned (or any) 3rd SH or hooker is going to come back and bite us.

Still, Itoje & Lawes looked good - shame they weren't the 2nd row. And Cokanasiga looked a beast going forward.
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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:14 am

Was it me or were the officials as bad as England?

So many offsides, mainly by Japan but not always going unpunished.

Knock-ons just ignored, I counted 5 in a three minute spell, none given.

Slade tackled without the ball and the replays clearly showing it, scrum Japan.

The Japanese player runs at Slade, gets tackled releases the ball whilst still going forward, Slade tries to pick up and possibly knocks on. Scrum Japan.

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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:23 am

They were pretty lax ....

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:27 am

as in.......ative, I agree SH!TE!

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Post by doctor_grey on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:28 am

nathan wrote:Heaf, it was allowed in the first half and then correctly penalised in the second half.  My wife got annoyed with me mentioning it every 2 minutes.
Funny, she said the same to me......

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:42 am

One of those funny games where the officials get pulled into the minnow story. Pretty poor in the first half there where it's felt that Japan are playing smart rugby but in actual fact they're playing the ball offside and not releasing. I think the match confirms wilson ain't a 7 in a million years and lacks a bit of composure. Have to remember he's still very inexperienced at this level though. Cokanasiga did everything asked of him well with ashton injured possibly he may be tempted to put jim on the bench.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:47 am

Lawes was my motm. Thought he looked like a back row for once. Carried strongly. Poached strongly.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:57 am

When you consider all the first choicers out through inury..then all the players in there today...with Farrell etc on the bench it was going to be a bit disjointed.

Now imainge the first choicers back..with one or two of these lads being brought in...and it bodes well.

Cokasaniga had a good game. Huge potential there...and the huge power runner we have been missing.

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Post by alcoombe on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:58 am

Can we stop the Daly at 15 experiment now please? He's probably England's most talented back, but FB is his third best position. He's got a long way to go under the high ball and as a last up tackler at test level. Fine as a backup, but not a starter for must win games.

We need to be getting the ball into his hands more, and he's at his best taking the ball on or close to the line. Within this England structure, that is best done at his fovoured position, 13, or as a roaming wing. Don't place limits on your most skillful player just because they are so versatile!

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Post by yappysnap on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:05 am

Why did we bother to mix the team up so much?!

All this jas shown us is that Japan is a tough nut to crack and our 3rd/4th choice options arent too great.

A wasted game.

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Post by Biltong on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:05 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Cokasaniga had a good game. Huge potential there...and the huge power runner we have been missing.

He looks like a keeper
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Post by Heaf on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:13 am

Wish we'd managed to keep him at London Irish but just like most of our other decent academy players he ended up at Bath Sad

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:20 am

Daly does look like he needs to improve under the high ball. Not sure he's won one yet. Watson when he comes back will be favourite to retake 15.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:21 am

He impressed me in two ways though.
when he got the ball he ran at top pace with intent...boom..like a steam train, so many of our players don't.

The other thing though was that he seems to have brains on his shoulders. Some nice touches...good support lines, good lay offs etc. One to work with.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:55 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes was my motm. Thought he looked like a back row for once. Carried strongly.  Poached strongly.

I have been saying this for a long time at Prem level, this is the first time I have seen him use his poacher skills at test level. I still think he is England's best lineout option, especially with Hartley throwing, the Hartley/Lawes combo is better then the George/Itoje. Probably as he is usually jumping at 4/5, he gets so much higher than Itoje and with his extra couple of inches and those long arms, he is very difficult to attack in the line out.

Still prefer him at lock alongside a powerhouse like Itoje, it gives us 4 backrowers without diminishing the tight 5.

I though Underhill made a big difference when he came on, I am thinking Curry's time is going to be limited to the bench if Underhill stays fit.

What was going wrong with the lineout in the first half, bad throwing, bad jumping or good defending?

I agree Cokanasiga looks the real deal, can't think what more he could have done. If Ashton is out next week I can see him starting with May.

Farrell's influence on the side was very apparent, he is becoming undropable.

Hepburn looks too lightweight for me, too lightweight, the Moon /Sinckler duo look much better

Next week needs to be a full 80 minutes, not 40 like the last two games.




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Post by No9 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:25 am

England has to fire Eddie now, if they are going to have a chance of getting out of the pool stages of the RWC.

Thank god the RFU are so thick they won’t do it.

Japan beating England for 60mins in Twickenham. Well done Japan. The Wallabies will rip England apart.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:29 am

No9 wrote:England has to fire Eddie now, if they are going to have a chance of getting out of the pool stages of the RWC.

Thank god the RFU are so thick they won’t  do it.

Japan beating England for 60mins in Twickenham. Well done Japan. The Wallabies will rip England apart.

Enjoy your evening... thumbsup

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:33 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes was my motm. Thought he looked like a back row for once. Carried strongly.  Poached strongly.

I have been saying this for a long time at Prem level, this is the first time I have seen him use his poacher skills at test level. I still think he is England's best lineout option, especially with Hartley throwing, the Hartley/Lawes combo is better then the George/Itoje. Probably as he is usually jumping at 4/5, he gets so much higher than Itoje and with his extra couple of inches and those long arms, he is very difficult to attack in the line out.

Still prefer him at lock alongside a powerhouse like Itoje, it gives us 4 backrowers without diminishing the tight 5.

I though Underhill made a big difference when he came on, I am thinking Curry's time is going to be limited to the bench if Underhill stays fit.

What was going wrong with the lineout in the first half, bad throwing, bad jumping or good defending?

I agree Cokanasiga looks the real deal, can't think what more he could have done. If Ashton is out next week I can see him starting with May.

Farrell's influence on the side was very apparent, he is becoming undropable.

Hepburn looks too lightweight for me, too lightweight, the Moon /Sinckler duo look much better

Next week needs to be a full 80 minutes, not 40 like the last two games.


Im a big fan of young Curry, but I have to admit..when Underhill is fit and on form...he's a seriously physical player on thank flank! Next week will be a benchmark for him up against the Aussie 7's.

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