Brexit

Page 2 of 20 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11 ... 20  Next

Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 5:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:He doesn't have to 'prove his innocence', that's not how the justice system in this country works.

But it's how the world intends it to work.................... it's probably called neo-socialism - ooh, sex-Y!.  
Anti establishment thought crimes to be punishable by no trial and a bullet down some cavernous prison complex dedicated to 're-education' of political dissidents. OK

Sex crimes as well? I don't see many people one here leaping to Weinstein's defence.
Yep. I would, until and unless he's convicted. Otherwise it's just hearsay and rumour.

So would Arron Banks
Meaning?
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8178
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down


Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 4:25 pm

So a deal has been agreed............Fun starts now..

TRUSSMAN66

Posts : 38647
Join date : 2011-02-02

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 4:33 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Labour leads in all sections below 54 years of age...

While I agree young people are more idealistic they are more likely to vote Labour straightaway...You can't say that people who are 54 now will wake up in the morning and go "right I am voting Tory now.."

Not to be patronising..

Like I said sooner is better..
I know urban numbers come into it, but it doesn't look that red a country just now does it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40176349
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8178
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 5:09 pm

'The past is prologue'.......The next Labour PM will be Thornberry....It will look red then..

TRUSSMAN66

Posts : 38647
Join date : 2011-02-02

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 5:12 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:'The past is prologue'.......The next Labour PM will be Thornberry....It will look red then..
Maybe. It'll have to look redder if Labour want in.

TBH, probably best not to pay too much attention to UK (or wider global) politics just now. Too depressing. Now, what's the phone number for a decent Counselling service....?
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8178
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 1:18 pm

Got to laugh at Johnson kicking off that we’ll need to follow EU rules and regulations without having any say in how their formed. One of the main leave front runners admitting that actually, we DID infact have control over laws and such while members.

Well, you’ve got to laugh, or else you’ll cry.

Samo

Posts : 4707
Join date : 2011-01-29

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 1:38 pm

Samo wrote:Got to laugh at Johnson kicking off that we’ll need to follow EU rules and regulations without having any say in how their formed.  One of the main leave front runners admitting that actually, we DID infact have control over laws and such while members.

Well, you’ve got to laugh, or else you’ll cry.
Laugh Yeah. TBH, nothing that berk says is worth reporting, so probably better if the media just stopped doing so.
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8178
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 1:44 pm

Samo wrote:Got to laugh at Johnson kicking off that we’ll need to follow EU rules and regulations without having any say in how their formed.  One of the main leave front runners admitting that actually, we DID infact have control over laws and such while members.

Well, you’ve got to laugh, or else you’ll cry.

Very correct.

I do think though that BoJo is much nearer the mark of what Brexit should be. Brexit has been voted for and should be a full withdrawal or it should not go ahead at all - there can be no halfway house like Calamity May is trying to force through.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18869
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 50
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by MrInvisible on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 1:52 pm

On Thornberry, whilst I agree her star has risen serving in shadow cabinet under Corbyn and she performs well at PMQs and on the media, I can see how she might not go down too well with some parts of electorate (e.g. the admittedly overblown 'white van & England flag' saga). Agree she's a viable candidate for leader post-Corbyn but I think others (e.g. Clive Lewis, Angela Rayner) may have wider appeal as they are outside the London bubble.

Onto the generational thing for voting habit, at the risk of being a bit too general and accepting that there are of course many people who buck the trend and can't be pigeonholed with rest of their generation, you've got to look at how people's experiences shape their concerns and voting habits:

Under 25s: Typically less politically engaged, but recent signs of this changing. With cuts to education, tuition fees, etc, and very little in the way of government policies benefiting them of late, and having little memory of pre-austerity days, those that are politically engaged are on the whole likely to be more left-leaning and anti-Tory.

25-35: 'Generation rent' - struggling with private rent costs and many in unsecure jobs with less stability than previous generations enjoyed. Those that have been to university will be saddled with debts, and home ownership will be out of reach for many (a generation ago many in this age-group were already home-owners). Again, lots of voters in this group will be less than positive about the Tory government.

35-50: Still a lot of renters in this age-group. Lots of parents experiencing effect of education cutbacks on their kids. Old enough to remember the pre-austerity days well and seen the damaging effects its having on local services. There'll be plenty of Tory voters in this age-group still, but fewer than there used to be, and on the whole this is a generation more likely to be concerned about negative effect of Brexit on their children's prospects than immigration fears.

50-65: Many homeowners in this group will have done well out of the house price rises over the last 2 decades or so and a large number will lean Tory to keep things as they are. That said, there will be a fair few parents of university students in this group and parents of those adult children unable to afford their own home, so some will have seen the flip side of the house price rises, and debt accumulated by younger generations, so perhaps this group isn't quite as strong Tory as it once was. On Brexit/immigration most in this group will have more concern over immigration than on economic impact of Brexit.

65+: Still strong Tory, and the Brexit/immigration views will be even more entrenched than the 50-65 group. This is mainly comprised of the baby-boomer generation who have been the most fortunate generation with regards to living standards and opportunities - young enough to miss the wars and rationing and old enough to benefit from cheap house prices and some decent periods of economic growth. They've been well-looked after (with the odd omission e.g. 'Death Tax') by the government and have a high rate of voter participation. They are though getting on, and this still large group is getting that bit smaller every year.

MrInvisible

Posts : 548
Join date : 2013-01-22

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 1:55 pm

MrInvisible wrote:This is mainly comprised of the baby-boomer generation who have been the most fortunate generation with regards to living standards

How so? My generation (I'm currently 23) has a far higher standard of living than those who were born in 1953 or earlier.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 2:06 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Samo wrote:Got to laugh at Johnson kicking off that we’ll need to follow EU rules and regulations without having any say in how their formed.  One of the main leave front runners admitting that actually, we DID infact have control over laws and such while members.

Well, you’ve got to laugh, or else you’ll cry.

Very correct.

I do think though that BoJo is much nearer the mark of what Brexit should be. Brexit has been voted for and should be a full withdrawal or it should not go ahead at all - there can be no halfway house like Calamity May is trying to force through.

Pretty sure that with what May is offering we will leave the EU - and that is the only thing people voted for. There was nothing in the referendum about any of the detail; that has all been assumed after the fact.

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 2:57 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Samo wrote:Got to laugh at Johnson kicking off that we’ll need to follow EU rules and regulations without having any say in how their formed.  One of the main leave front runners admitting that actually, we DID infact have control over laws and such while members.

Well, you’ve got to laugh, or else you’ll cry.

Very correct.

I do think though that BoJo is much nearer the mark of what Brexit should be. Brexit has been voted for and should be a full withdrawal or it should not go ahead at all - there can be no halfway house like Calamity May is trying to force through.

Pretty sure that with what May is offering we will leave the EU - and that is the only thing people voted for. There was nothing in the referendum about any of the detail; that has all been assumed after the fact.

Yes I know but what sense does Brexit make in the current guise that looks likely? No sense.

There are only two options really that make any sense. First was if a Remain vote had taken place then the UK stay in the EU. Brexit was voted for and it was understood to be a full withdrawal from the EU - not a part exit and part stay in some sort of deal with the EU. That is just daft. The UK would be staying in deals similar to they have at present but would have no say on anything that goes on at the EU - no say on future trading deals, no say on security issues within the Eu etc etc etc. Why leave and then try hanging on to do deals with the EU yet you lose the power of being in on all EU discussions/decisions etc. It is akin to being a chairman at a football club where you can have influence on how that club is run then resigning and giving all that up just to be a season ticket holder. No sense in that whatsoever.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18869
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 50
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 3:08 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:There was nothing in the referendum about any of the detail; that has all been assumed after the fact.

The Tory Party Manifesto in 2017 was explicit in saying the UK would leave the Single Market, the Customs Union, maintain the common travel area, regain control over our laws and end the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 3:33 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Samo wrote:Got to laugh at Johnson kicking off that we’ll need to follow EU rules and regulations without having any say in how their formed.  One of the main leave front runners admitting that actually, we DID infact have control over laws and such while members.

Well, you’ve got to laugh, or else you’ll cry.

Very correct.

I do think though that BoJo is much nearer the mark of what Brexit should be. Brexit has been voted for and should be a full withdrawal or it should not go ahead at all - there can be no halfway house like Calamity May is trying to force through.

Pretty sure that with what May is offering we will leave the EU - and that is the only thing people voted for. There was nothing in the referendum about any of the detail; that has all been assumed after the fact.

Yes I know but what sense does Brexit make in the current guise that looks likely? No sense.

There are only two options really that make any sense. First was if a Remain vote had taken place then the UK stay in the EU. Brexit was voted for and it was understood to be a full withdrawal from the EU - not a part exit and part stay in some sort of deal with the EU. That is just daft. The UK would be staying in deals similar to they have at present but would have no say on anything that goes on at the EU - no say on future trading deals, no say on security issues within the Eu etc etc etc. Why leave and then try hanging on to do deals with the EU yet you lose the power of being in on all EU discussions/decisions etc. It is akin to being a chairman at a football club where you can have influence on how that club is run then resigning and giving all that up just to be a season ticket holder. No sense in that whatsoever.

A full withdrawal without 'some sort of deal' would mean a No Deal Brexit, correct?

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 3:40 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:There was nothing in the referendum about any of the detail; that has all been assumed after the fact.

The Tory Party Manifesto in 2017 was explicit in saying the UK would leave the Single Market, the Customs Union, maintain the common travel area, regain control over our laws and end the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

But that wasn't what was asked about in the referendum question. So May's current deal will deliver what was voted for in the referendum - leaving the EU. Failing to deliver manifesto promises is a separate issue.

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 3:42 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Samo wrote:Got to laugh at Johnson kicking off that we’ll need to follow EU rules and regulations without having any say in how their formed.  One of the main leave front runners admitting that actually, we DID infact have control over laws and such while members.

Well, you’ve got to laugh, or else you’ll cry.

Very correct.

I do think though that BoJo is much nearer the mark of what Brexit should be. Brexit has been voted for and should be a full withdrawal or it should not go ahead at all - there can be no halfway house like Calamity May is trying to force through.

Pretty sure that with what May is offering we will leave the EU - and that is the only thing people voted for. There was nothing in the referendum about any of the detail; that has all been assumed after the fact.

Yes I know but what sense does Brexit make in the current guise that looks likely? No sense.

There are only two options really that make any sense. First was if a Remain vote had taken place then the UK stay in the EU. Brexit was voted for and it was understood to be a full withdrawal from the EU - not a part exit and part stay in some sort of deal with the EU. That is just daft. The UK would be staying in deals similar to they have at present but would have no say on anything that goes on at the EU - no say on future trading deals, no say on security issues within the Eu etc etc etc. Why leave and then try hanging on to do deals with the EU yet you lose the power of being in on all EU discussions/decisions etc. It is akin to being a chairman at a football club where you can have influence on how that club is run then resigning and giving all that up just to be a season ticket holder. No sense in that whatsoever.

A full withdrawal without 'some sort of deal' would mean a No Deal Brexit, correct?

No I say not. It really depends on various things. I mean if a UK government had negotiated with the EU on the pretence that they would not remain in any sort of trade deals then it isn't a No deal. It would depend on what loose end deals could be discussed such as on security and such-like. The point is a deal with the EU could and would have been agreed if the UK government had said they were not remaining in any sort of trade deals.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18869
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 50
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 3:49 pm

So we needed some sort of deal, and we got some sort of deal. Some people will be unhappy with the deal, but any deal was bound to leave some people unhappy. So, just as Leavers have been saying to Remainers, 'stop being sore losers we need to move forward', shouldn't anyone unhappy with the deal stop being a sore loser and move forward?

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 4:02 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:So we needed some sort of deal, and we got some sort of deal. Some people will be unhappy with the deal, but any deal was bound to leave some people unhappy. So, just as Leavers have been saying to Remainers, 'stop being sore losers we need to move forward', shouldn't anyone unhappy with the deal stop being a sore loser and move forward?

I am ambivalent on the whole EU matter but lets think about things logically.

At present the UK is in the EU fully tied into trade deals and with full say on things that go on within the EU. The UK has an influence on what goes on with trade deals, security and basically everything to do with EU matters.

By all accounts where we stand now is that it looks like May has done some sort of trade deals with the EU in this deal. So they will be tied into deals they supposedly wanted out of to negotiate their own deals elsewhere. In reality they are staying tied into EU deals but losing all influence they had as an EU member. Work that one out because I can't. Absolutely pointless.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18869
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 50
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 4:06 pm

Yeah it's pointless, but it delivers on the referendum. We aren't being forced into anything by the EU anymore - it's our choice as a sovereign nation, free of the EU, except where we choose to deal with them.

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 4:14 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Yeah it's pointless, but it delivers on the referendum. We aren't being forced into anything by the EU anymore - it's our choice as a sovereign nation, free of the EU, except where we choose to deal with them.

But has it delivered though? I don't say it has as the UK are still tied (most likely) into deals with the EU so it isn't really an exit at all.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18869
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 50
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 4:19 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Yeah it's pointless, but it delivers on the referendum. We aren't being forced into anything by the EU anymore - it's our choice as a sovereign nation, free of the EU, except where we choose to deal with them.

But has it delivered though? I don't say it has as the UK are still tied (most likely) into deals with the EU so it isn't really an exit at all.

But we don't have to tied into them, whereas before we did, as an EU member. Now we can take them or leave them as we choose, and we choose to take them - that's freedom.

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 4:21 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Yeah it's pointless, but it delivers on the referendum. We aren't being forced into anything by the EU anymore - it's our choice as a sovereign nation, free of the EU, except where we choose to deal with them.

But has it delivered though? I don't say it has as the UK are still tied (most likely) into deals with the EU so it isn't really an exit at all.

But we don't have to tied into them, whereas before we did, as an EU member. Now we can take them or leave them as we choose, and we choose to take them - that's freedom.

Hmm I am not so sure it is that clear cut. However, what do I know?
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18869
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 50
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 6:38 pm

The Brexiteers pushing for a vote of no confidence in May..

I imagine she wins 'IF' there is one....But of course the margin will be all important....If you haven't got a majority and a 100+ want you out it doesn't look good.

Sooner or later there will be a VONC..


TRUSSMAN66

Posts : 38647
Join date : 2011-02-02

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 8:57 am

Raab is gone.

Samo

Posts : 4707
Join date : 2011-01-29

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Pr4wn on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:07 am

A huge loss, to be sure. And to think he just learned that so much of the UK's trade came through Dover.

Pr4wn
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 4947
Join date : 2011-03-09
Location : Manila, Philippines

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:16 am

Im particularly enjoying the gammon brigade fuming that “this isnt the brexit we voted for”.

Samo

Posts : 4707
Join date : 2011-01-29

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:38 am

Pr4wn wrote:A huge loss, to be sure. And to think he just learned that so much of the UK's trade came through Dover.
Laugh Indeed. High quality politicians we have in this country these days.
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8178
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:03 am

Esther McVey is the latest rat to desert the sinking ship. Hard to see how May survives this.

Samo

Posts : 4707
Join date : 2011-01-29

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:12 am

So having read through the withdrawal agreement, it's quite obvious it won't get through Parliament. DUP won't support it. SNP won't like it. A handful of Tory MPs won't support it. Can't see Labour voting for it.

So, no deal it is!

Theresa surely can't last much longer - gone by Christmas. Pleasing to see some resignations this morning (hopefully not the last of the day).

Tee-hee, resignations four and five have just happened.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:34 am

Either -
No deal, which a) is generally agreed will be terrible for the economy for years to come and b) won't get through Parliament

A change of PM and back to the drawing board for a new deal which a) will delay things and b) probably won't get through Parliament

A GE, which will probably end up with Labour in power and a second referendum.

No deal is least likely to happen.

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:47 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Either -
No deal, which a) is generally agreed will be terrible for the economy for years to come and b) won't get through Parliament

A change of PM and back to the drawing board for a new deal which a) will delay things and b) probably won't get through Parliament

A GE, which will probably end up with Labour in power and a second referendum.

No deal is least likely to happen.

A change of Prime Minister wouldn't change much, as there simply isn't enough time to negotiate a new deal and get it through Parliament.

A GE would probably return the Tories as the largest party, and no second referendum.

No deal is the default setting.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:48 am

All a bit of a laugh, innit?

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin

Posts : 22534
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:52 am

May has just told parliament that we can have no deal, or risk no brexit, or unite behind her deal.

No Brexit still on the table.

Samo

Posts : 4707
Join date : 2011-01-29

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:56 am

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Either -
No deal, which a) is generally agreed will be terrible for the economy for years to come and b) won't get through Parliament

A change of PM and back to the drawing board for a new deal which a) will delay things and b) probably won't get through Parliament

A GE, which will probably end up with Labour in power and a second referendum.

No deal is least likely to happen.

A change of Prime Minister wouldn't change much, as there simply isn't enough time to negotiate a new deal and get it through Parliament.

A GE would probably return the Tories as the largest party, and no second referendum.

No deal is the default setting.

But since no deal would be an economic disaster for the country, it is very unlikely that Parliament will allow that to happen.

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:02 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Either -
No deal, which a) is generally agreed will be terrible for the economy for years to come and b) won't get through Parliament

A change of PM and back to the drawing board for a new deal which a) will delay things and b) probably won't get through Parliament

A GE, which will probably end up with Labour in power and a second referendum.

No deal is least likely to happen.

A change of Prime Minister wouldn't change much, as there simply isn't enough time to negotiate a new deal and get it through Parliament.

A GE would probably return the Tories as the largest party, and no second referendum.

No deal is the default setting.

But since no deal would be an economic disaster for the country, it is very unlikely that Parliament will allow that to happen.

But if there's nothing else on the table, there's nowt they can do (short of trying to stop Brexit [a democratic and electoral disaster], or trying to extend Article 50 [which the EU are unlikely to accept]).

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:07 am

I reckon the EU would rather extend than end up with no deal.
But who knows, maybe we'll end up with no deal - which would cause huge economic damage to the country for many years to come.

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:18 am

No deal vs No brexit would have to go back to the polls. I doubt a significant number of people who voted leave would be happy with No Deal.

Samo

Posts : 4707
Join date : 2011-01-29

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:23 am

Samo wrote:No deal vs No brexit would have to go back to the polls.

No, it wouldn't. There's a democratic mandate to leave the EU, but this doesn't specifically relate to whether we leave with a deal or if we leave with no deal.

If the option on the ballot paper was 'Leave the EU with a trade deal in place', then you may have a point. Meanwhile, 'No Brexit [Remain]' was comprehensively defeated at the ballot box.

And, it may be worth pointing out, there's no time for another referendum.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:07 pm

I’m sure the EU would help us find time. Pretty clear they’d rather we stayed.

Masochists who kick off about political mandate that would prefer something s*** to happen rather than another referendum where Team Brexit might “lose”, as if it’s the North London Derby and the lads wouldn’t be able to take the banter from them lot in Red

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin

Posts : 22534
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by superflyweight on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:So having read through the withdrawal agreement, it's quite obvious it won't get through Parliament. DUP won't support it. SNP won't like it. A handful of Tory MPs won't support it. Can't see Labour voting for it.

So, no deal it is!

Theresa surely can't last much longer - gone by Christmas. Pleasing to see some resignations this morning (hopefully not the last of the day).

Tee-hee, resignations four and five have just happened.

All of it? Sure you have...

superflyweight
Superfly
Superfly

Posts : 6321
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Right here waiting for you

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:31 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I’m sure the EU would help us find time. Pretty clear they’d rather we stayed.

Masochists who kick off about political mandate that would prefer something s*** to happen rather than another referendum where Team Brexit might “lose”, as if it’s the North London Derby and the lads wouldn’t be able to take the banter from them lot in Red

The EU have said previously that this would be highly unlikely, but we may see how true this is if the Tory government ask for an extension.

I'd prefer a democratic decision to be honoured, rather than politicians reneging on it and destroying the public's faith in democracy. I have no qualms about another referendum, if public interest is sufficient, after this first decision has been implemented.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:33 pm

superflyweight wrote:
Duty281 wrote:So having read through the withdrawal agreement, it's quite obvious it won't get through Parliament. DUP won't support it. SNP won't like it. A handful of Tory MPs won't support it. Can't see Labour voting for it.

So, no deal it is!

Theresa surely can't last much longer - gone by Christmas. Pleasing to see some resignations this morning (hopefully not the last of the day).

Tee-hee, resignations four and five have just happened.

All of it?  Sure you have...

Yes. Won't pretend it was thrilling or gripping stuff.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Hero on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:27 pm

Such a shame that the Government don't appoint you Duty to sort out all the mess.
You read a 585 page document within 24 hours of release and you think the issue of customs and Northern Ireland is easy to sort out despite the EU and Britain's best negotiators spending months in deadlock trying to resolve it (and still haven't).

Hero
Founder
Founder

Posts : 28226
Join date : 2012-03-02
Age : 43
Location : Work toilet

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I’m sure the EU would help us find time. Pretty clear they’d rather we stayed.

Masochists who kick off about political mandate that would prefer something s*** to happen rather than another referendum where Team Brexit might “lose”, as if it’s the North London Derby and the lads wouldn’t be able to take the banter from them lot in Red

The EU have said previously that this would be highly unlikely, but we may see how true this is if the Tory government ask for an extension.

I'd prefer a democratic decision to be honoured, rather than politicians reneging on it and destroying the public's faith in democracy. I have no qualms about another referendum, if public interest is sufficient, after this first decision has been implemented.

Yeah, I think Stalin was quite fond of Democratic Centralism aswell.

Samo

Posts : 4707
Join date : 2011-01-29

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:39 pm

Hero wrote:Such a shame that the Government don't appoint you Duty to sort out all the mess.
You read a 585 page document within 24 hours of release and you think the issue of customs and Northern Ireland is easy to sort out despite the EU and Britain's best negotiators spending months in deadlock trying to resolve it (and still haven't).

Based on what the European Parliament have said, we can maintain the common travel area with Northern Ireland and Eire. That's all I've said. I don't believe I've said anything specific about the customs union other than the UK should leave it.

And, please, it isn't really 585 pages of solid text because many of those pages are only half or even quarter-full.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:56 pm

Were any intentionally left blank?

JuliusHMarx
julius

Posts : 18672
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:58 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Were any intentionally left blank?
Laugh
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8178
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Pr4wn on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 2:41 pm

Amazing that the very definition of "democracy" is now one vote, once.

Country be damned.

Pr4wn
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 4947
Join date : 2011-03-09
Location : Manila, Philippines

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 2:46 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Amazing that the very definition of "democracy" is now one vote, once.

Country be damned.
It's one vote, once, followed by implementing the outcome of that vote. The country voted for this.
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8178
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 2:56 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Amazing that the very definition of "democracy" is now one vote, once.

Country be damned.
It's one vote, once, followed by implementing the outcome of that vote. The country voted for this.

But implementation of what? When the Brexit vote was made it was said that a Yes vote would be a clean break with the EU. Where the UK took back control of everything. That is not the case with this deal it is a crazy kind of halfway house akin to the Hokey Cokey. In some ways the UK is out in others they are In.
CaledonianCraig
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 18869
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 50
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:00 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Amazing that the very definition of "democracy" is now one vote, once.

Country be damned.
It's one vote, once, followed by implementing the outcome of that vote. The country voted for this.

Exactly, Prawn struggles to grasp this.

If, after the implementation of the 2016 EU Referendum result, there is sufficient public interest about rejoining the EU, then I welcome a vote on it.

Certainly not 'one vote, once'.

Duty281

Posts : 20680
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 24
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Brexit - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 20 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11 ... 20  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum