England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

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England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Nov 2018, 8:54 am

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday 24th November 2018
Time: 15:00
Location: Twickenham Stadium

Referee:       Jaco Peyper (SA)
Assistant 1:  Glen Jackson (NZ)
Assistant 2:  Alexandre Ruiz (Fr)
TMO:            Marius Jonker (SA)




Form


17th November England 35-15 Japan
10th November England 15-16 New Zealand
03rd November England 12-11 South Africa

17th November Italy 7-26 Australia 
10th November Wales 9-6 Australia
27th October Australia 20-37 New Zealand




Teams


England

Starting XV:
15. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 24 caps), 14. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 1 cap), 13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 16 caps), 12. Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 15 caps), 11. Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 39 caps), 10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 64 caps) co-captain, 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 79 caps), 1. Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps), 2. Jamie George (Saracens, 31 caps), 3. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 16 caps), 4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 25 caps), 5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 67 caps), 6. Brad Shields (Wasps, 4 caps), 7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), 8. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 7 caps).

Finishers:
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 96 caps) co-captain, 17. Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps), 18. Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps), 19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 9 caps), 20. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 17 caps), 21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 32 caps), 22. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps), 23. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps).


Australia


TBC


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 1:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by munkian on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:32 pm

robbo277 wrote:Pocock ruled out due to injury. Samu will be promoted off the bench. Not sure we've had the Aus team yet, but that's some late news.

From memory To'ouma and Foley are at 10/12. Folau is in at 15.

Devalued England win Shocked
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by BamBam on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:34 pm

Yup

And if we lose its a devalued loss as we're missing the Vunipolas and Joseph

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by munkian on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:46 pm

BamBam wrote:Yup

And if we lose its a devalued loss as we're missing the Vunipolas and Joseph

You have stout yeoman forwards for days
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 2:17 pm

robbo277 wrote:
BamBam wrote:Think Slade could cover full back at a push, but we're struggling for wing cover

There was an interesting article on Toomua's heritage and why he is now To'omua the other day, I'll try and dig it out

Slade or possibly Ford could go to 15 with Daly moving out to the wing. Not an ideal scenario, but would hopefully be able to tide us through a half of rugby if needed.

I've said before. .Eddie sees a back as a back...the number is irrelevant Slade, daly, etc can cover all the positions

Hell I woudlnt be surprised to see May at fb.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TrailApe on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 2:32 pm

I've said before. .Eddie sees a back as a back...the number is irrelevant Slade, daly, etc can cover all the positions

Hell I wouldn't be surprised to see May at fb.

Well we've seen him in the back row, so who knows.

Let's just thank our lucky stars that the terminology for Stand-Off doesn't ever have a 'Front' in it or we'd see Farrell having a right ding-dong with a couple of props.
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 2:40 pm

Without Pocock I cant see Australia winning this one.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 2:55 pm

England 48 - Aus 12
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 3:09 pm

Shame about pocock. Though he was down for 8 he'd still be the biggest threat to our possession and it would have been good to test underhill et al.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 3:57 pm

Did I read somewhere that the Aussies had asked World Rugby to see what they could do to give more protection to Pocock as he was getting injured through too many collisions when trying to snaffle the ball.

What the hell do they expect everyone to do when he is standing over the ball, trying to turn it over, politely say "Well, see here old chap, that's our ball and we would rather hang on to it. Do you mind letting go so we can recycle it?". If he wants to put himself in that position, he has to expect collisions with incoming forwards.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by robbo277 on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 4:04 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Did I read somewhere that the Aussies had asked World Rugby to see what they could do to give more protection to Pocock as he was getting injured through too many collisions when trying to snaffle the ball.

What the hell do they expect everyone to do when he is standing over the ball, trying to turn it over, politely say "Well, see here old chap, that's our ball and we would rather hang on to it. Do you mind letting go so we can recycle it?". If he wants to put himself in that position, he has to expect collisions with incoming forwards.

BBC wrote:A similar injury kept Pocock out of Australia's win over South Africa in Brisbane in September and he aggravated the problem in the victory over Italy last weekend.

Cheika revealed on Thursday that he had submitted evidence to World Rugby, hoping to get more protection for Pocock at the breakdown.

"The guy is getting a lot of knocks in that area," Cheika told BBC Sport on Thursday.

"So the choice is either don't put your head in there, or keep putting your head in there and just wear it. But we will look after him."

Seems odd. What Cheika has told BBC Sport (don't do it or just wear it) is at odds with asking for World Rugby to do something to help. "Submitted evidence?" Evidence of wrongdoing? Or just evidence of his injuries?

With all the protocol around the head, the breakdown is one area where more work could possibly be done. However, if you are going to say that players aren't allowed to put their head below their hips for example, you're going to remove the jackal from the game entirely.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Recwatcher16 on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 4:44 pm

Saw some stats for this game, lifted from a newspaper.
Interesting that over the 109 years from the first fixture, 26 of those 50 games have been in the last 18 years. Pretty much sums up what is wrong with the Test game and the desperation for income and viewing interest needed by most Unions.

Tomorrow is the 50th game between England and Australia. The series dates back 109yrs to, coincidentally, 1909 at London, Blackheath, with Australia winning 9-3. There then followed games at Twickenham in 1928, 1948 and 1958, before England finally got round to visiting Australia in 1963.

It took 79yrs - until 1988 - to complete the first 16 matches of the rivalry. On Saturday, the teams will contest the 26th game since 2000 - which means more than half of the contests have taken place in 18yrs.

Of the first 49 games, after the very first game in London, another 26 have been played in the capital at Twickenham - where the record stands, P26 - ENG 15 (58%) - AUS 10 (38%) - DRAW 1 (4%).

Sydney has hosted the second most matches - 11 at 5 different venues. Then comes Brisbane with 5 matches at 2 venues, Melbourne 3 matches at 2, and Perth 1 game.

In Australia the record stands, P20 - AUS 14 (70%) - ENG 6 (30%). It took England nearly 100yrs, and 11 attempts, to get a first win on Australian soil, when they won in Melbourne in 2003. A feat they repeated only a few months later in Sydney at the RWC final. Since then there have been 8 games in Australia, with each nation winning 4.

Whenever they have played each other on neutral territory, in the RWC in 1995 in Cape Town, and 2007 in Marseille, England have won narrowly.

The overall record as it now stands is approaching parity, which is good news for England as they have never held the initiative in the fixture’s history.

P49 (1909 to 2017)
ENG 23 (47%)
AUS 25 (51%)
DRAW 1 (1%)
Points scored - ENG 847 - 1042 AUS
Average score ENG 17 - 21 AUS


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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by lostinwales on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 5:41 pm

'Australia coach Michael Cheika says Kurtley Beale and Adam Ashley-Cooper were guilty of "a small error of judgement" after they reportedly invited three women to their hotel after defeat by Wales a fortnight ago.'


(it is believed the women were Ashley-Cooper's sister-in-law and some friends)

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 6:43 pm

Very weak Australian side on paper which badly misses Pocock, and Jones (at last!) has picked an excellent, well-balanced side that also carries great impact from the bench.

So, on paper, it should be comfortable for England, especially with home advantage. Consider, also, England's formidable recent record against the Aussies: five wins out of the last five (three of those in Australia), or seven wins out of eight, or nine wins out of eleven.

The only real concern, from an English perspective, is how up and down England have been during the autumn. Exquisite against New Zealand and decent in the second half against South Africa, but downright diabolical against Japan and for the first half against the Saffers.

No matter. England by 15.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:37 pm

At the falcons game tonight...and whilst both teams were gash, I got the feeling Zach Mercer still has a little bit to go. The game was crying out for someone to really take the game by the scruff of the neck...and someone like Zach should be looking to do that...but he just kind of stuck out on the wing...until the last ten mins or so.
Edit
Yet many of my falcons fellow fans seem to think he was the best player on the pitch by a country mile...interesting.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by yappysnap on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 6:06 am

robbo277 wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Did I read somewhere that the Aussies had asked World Rugby to see what they could do to give more protection to Pocock as he was getting injured through too many collisions when trying to snaffle the ball.

What the hell do they expect everyone to do when he is standing over the ball, trying to turn it over, politely say "Well, see here old chap, that's our ball and we would rather hang on to it. Do you mind letting go so we can recycle it?". If he wants to put himself in that position, he has to expect collisions with incoming forwards.

BBC wrote:A similar injury kept Pocock out of Australia's win over South Africa in Brisbane in September and he aggravated the problem in the victory over Italy last weekend.

Cheika revealed on Thursday that he had submitted evidence to World Rugby, hoping to get more protection for Pocock at the breakdown.

"The guy is getting a lot of knocks in that area," Cheika told BBC Sport on Thursday.

"So the choice is either don't put your head in there, or keep putting your head in there and just wear it. But we will look after him."

Seems odd. What Cheika has told BBC Sport (don't do it or just wear it) is at odds with asking for World Rugby to do something to help. "Submitted evidence?" Evidence of wrongdoing? Or just evidence of his injuries?

With all the protocol around the head, the breakdown is one area where more work could possibly be done. However, if you are going to say that players aren't allowed to put their head below their hips for example, you're going to remove the jackal from the game entirely.

I thought he was specificaly talking about neck rolls re Pocock

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by lostinwales on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 10:03 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:At the falcons game tonight...and whilst both teams were gash, I got the feeling Zach Mercer still has a little bit to go. The game was crying out for someone to really take the game by the scruff of the neck...and someone like Zach should be looking to do that...but he just kind of stuck out on the wing...until the last ten mins or so.
Edit
Yet many of my falcons fellow fans seem to think he was the best player on the pitch by a country mile...interesting.
All sounds very 'Parisse'.

To be fair watching him at U20 level he had a huge impact, not just in what he actually did but also in the way he talked to and organised the players around him. I think he's going to be a terrific player but also think this RWC is too soon.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:05 pm

England get going quickly. 7-0 after a few minutes. All started from a sharp slap down.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:07 pm

Itoje Again!
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:07 pm

Itoje is a penalty liability
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:17 pm

Why the woman pundit on Sky, she played to a level of rugby suited to a social Sunday morning club. Low.
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:30 pm

Almost an utter farce as that try was nearly given. Stuart Barnes, resident moron, 'a good thing the TMO isn't used' having to backtrack seconds later.

England's scrum dominant. Memories of '05 and '07.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:30 pm

Acre forward. No replay because Stuart Barnes was talking Poopie
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:31 pm

Barnes is an embarrassment to rugby commentary, touch judge said it was forward the Ref ignored him and gave it
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:31 pm

We have the dominance but not the rugby inteligence to exploit it.
Therefore unsurprisingly Ozy score as we go soft.
Luckily a forward pass.
10 and 15 arnt giving us enough.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:35 pm

Glad England aren’t wearing rainbow laces.

That was a clear yellow card,
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:36 pm

Are a fascist TH?

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:38 pm

No, but see no reason why people need to wear rainbow laces, I don’t care or judge people based on their sexuality.
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:39 pm

Rugby inteligence of the highest order. Wonderful line, wonderful try!

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:39 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Glad England aren’t wearing rainbow laces.

All a total nonsense. Saw the touch judge in the Quins game yesterday with a rainbow flag. Doh

Good try from Folau. Farrell misses another tackle.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:42 pm

Daly is not a FB, but hey we all know that right!
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:42 pm

Daly failing.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:43 pm

Good use of the arms from farrell
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:45 pm

Farrell is not a Captain.
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Duty281 on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:45 pm

How on earth has Farrell gotten away with that? Should be ten minutes in the bin, at least.

Anyway, it's somehow level at the break. Australia will be pleased with that.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:45 pm

Should have been a penalty try and Farrell binned
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by englishborn on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:46 pm

Not with both leading with the shoulder, who do you penalise?

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:46 pm

I raised my concerns regards Farrell.
England rudderless.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Barney McGrew did it on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:48 pm

Dear God it's like watching the England Colts - dropped passes, passing to the wrong shirt, easy Aus runs through the midfield, turnovers. So far looks like England have hit another trough Eddie. Have absolutely no idea how the 2nd half will pan out.
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:48 pm

Farrell is riding his luck, he better hope it doesn't bite him in a play off match during the RWC
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:48 pm

Another day another referee and TH is correct. P try & YC

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:49 pm

englishborn wrote:Not with both leading with the shoulder, who do you penalise?

Ball carriers drop shoulders all the time, since when is that an issue?
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:50 pm

England looked in the first 20 minutes, dropped off a bit and allowed Australia back in.

Hope thew second half is better than the first.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:50 pm

Exactly, every kid is told to drop their shoulder going into contact
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:51 pm

Really bizarre mitigation offered by Peyper in saying that the ball carrier dropped his shoulder. Well uhm yeh.....

How else is a ball carrier going to go into contact? Farrell has got away with another one there.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Biltong on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:51 pm

Some day someone is going to shoulder the shyte out of Farrell.
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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:52 pm

We can't be confident with Damy at 15. It's starting to affect his overall play, because he's trying to hard to make up for it elsewhere.

I agree that Farrell is not exercising any control over his team. We've been turned over a few times at the breakdown, mainly through failing to protect our ball, and you shouldn't let that happen without reading the riot act.


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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:52 pm

We need shape. Bring Ford on, move Farrel to FB.
Bring the captain and Hughes on with 35 to go.
Stop kicking when ball in hand is the option.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:54 pm

7 turn overs and very little to show for it. The forwards must be pissed.

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by SimonofSurrey on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:55 pm

TightHEAD - agree with you 100% on the Farrell (non)tackle just before H/T. Penalty try and 10 mns in the bin. As so often, your rugby observations are astute and well worth reading. But...

...pse lose the homophobia and sexism. The attack on G Thomas was witless and it's good he's had so much active support. It's not good enough just to sit back and say 'what happened to him was wrong/some of my best friends are.../I've nothing against...etc'. In this case, actions speak much louder than words, to condemn - not just disagree with - totally unacceptable behaviour on our streets. Maggie Alphonsi, meanwhile, was a great player (I saw her play - did you?), a World Cup winner and now is an astute observer of the game: women's, mens', kids' - it's essentially the same game. As someone who achieved to and at the very highest level, she has every right to be consulted as an expert on rugby - all rugby.


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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

Post by Pie on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 3:56 pm

Any refs can answer this

Peyper says he thought Aussie lock 'also dropped shoulder' hence why he didnt penalize Farrell for what was an obvious no arms tackle

Question is, is player in possession obliged to wrap his fracking arms when he goes into contact whilst holding the fracking ball?

Or has Peyper just made the biggest refereeing f$$k up I've witnessed for a long time

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Re: England vs Australia - 4th Quilter International

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