India VS Australia 2018-19

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Wed 21 Nov 2018, 12:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

The only time India lifted the Border-Gavaskar trophy was in 2003-04 when the series was drawn 1-1. Many considers this is the best chance for India to lift the trophy with a win, as this Aussies side is the weakest one to have played against India. Let's see how the summer shower it's heat in Australia. The schedule are as follows

T-20 series:
Match 1 - 21 November - Brisbane
Match 2 - 23 November - Melbourne
Match 3 - 25 November - Sydney


Test Matches

1. Adelaide : 6-12-18 to 10-12-18
2. Perth : 14-12-2018 to 18-12-18
3. Melbourne : 26-12-18 to 30-12-18
4. Sydney : 03-01-19 to 07-01-19

ODI Series:

Match 1 - 12 Jan - Sydney
Match 2 - 15 Jan - Adelaide
Match 3 - 18 Jan - Melbourne

To be honest I am not happy with the scheduling. Indian team management thinks that T-20 or the ODIs are the best way to get acclimatised to the home conditions and they were proved wrong in the last two tours. Still they have only one practise game for preparations. Also if the nepotism wonder R. Sharma gets into the XI, I will support Australia to repeat 2011.
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 29 Dec 2018, 10:54 am

Job nearly done for India, then. As Olly alludes to, Cummins is pretty much the only Australian who's put a decent shift in.

I do of course remember Edgbaston '05 and Trent Bridge '13 and how close Australia got. This is a bit further away than that, though not impossible. 99% in favour of India. Neither Lyon or Hazlewood have a test match fifty (though Lyon has two at FC level). If Australia are to do it, they must score at a fair rattle of 5+ an over and hope fate is on their side.

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Post by alfie on Sat 29 Dec 2018, 12:15 pm

Australia aren't getting anywhere near this. They will hope for rain but really , fresh bowlers will sort this pretty quickly tomorrow. Thanks to Cummins and Lyon though , they are making sure the Indian bowlers are as tired as the home team's despite that long first two days - and that could be significant for Sydney.

MoTM will be interesting : if Bumrah gets the last couple it has to be him , though Pujara is worth a shout. Cummins probably needs to make a hundred...

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Post by msp83 on Sat 29 Dec 2018, 8:12 pm

Another overall good day India punctuated by that lack of ruthlessness. Agarwal and Pant dragged them to a seemingly safe total after the collapse, and then the bowlers yet again bowled well enough to take down 8 wickets. Cummins has played a mighty fine hand, and Lyon has given him terrific support. But the Indians lost the the plot a bit when bowling to the lower order, went too aggressive and moved away from the discipline that has kept them going throughout the series so far. Hopefully, with a good night's rest and some contemplation, they would be able to get the job done without too much fuss tomorrow.
The bowling unit was yet again led well by Bumrah. Jadja, Shami and Ishant too chipped in well.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 29 Dec 2018, 8:16 pm

Pat Cummins is fast evolving into a bowling all-rounder. Nathan Lyon is as stubborn a tailender as any. Hazlewood is better than most number 11s in the world. Its Australia that they are playing. There is the threat of rain. India will have to be careful and purposeful with the ball tomorrow to ensure they complete the task.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 29 Dec 2018, 8:17 pm

Meanwhile, Ravindra Jadeja has done enough to force a discussion on the led spinner when Ashwin gets back to full fitness. SCG might offer an opportunity to play both with Pandya coming in for Rohit, but Jadeja is not too far behind Ashwin, and it just have to be current form that should decide who should play when the team would go in with 1 spinner.

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Post by alfie on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 3:42 am

As expected. Once the rain let up it didn't take long...good convincing win for India thumbsup

I am not calling it a series win for the tourists yet. Their batting has proven a bit fragile outside of the big guns at 3-5 (although the new lad has had a great debut as opener) so they aren't nailed on to win in Sydney , where the toss may again prove significant , especially as whoever bowls first will be asking somewhat leg-weary bowlers to get back on the job with a very short rest. Could be a flat sort of pitch too.
However if the Australian players are as down on morale as the local commentators they're in trouble ! Seems to be an awful lot of hand-wringing this afternoon in Melbourne...and Warne is getting stuck in to the Australian bowlers (not Cummins) as well as the bats...
As expected Labuschagne has been added to the squad , and I think he will play if it looks remotely likely to spin - or in fact anyway unless it is a green top . Which means only one Marsh in the side . Whether they rest a paceman for Siddle we will see...but there seems to be a lot of support for moving Finch down the order with Khawaja stepping up to open. Presumably then it would be S Marsh at three and Head at four ? I don't know how much of an improvement that will be...

Anyway India can celebrate for now : the trophy is retained so half the job is done...but they'll be massively disappointed if they don't finish it now. I reckon they probably will ; but they'll need to stay focused for what may yet be a good finish to a very interesting series.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 4:01 am

--In the end just relief...inspite of Cummin's fight back and a washed out session...we went past the finish line....
Only twice in our history have we won 2 tests outside Asia in a series ( discounting 1967 wins in NZ when they were minnow and recent win against WI when they are minnows)

1977 against a Kerry Packer weakened Aus we lost 2-3
and won in Eng 2-0 in 1986
1985 was a heartbreak when we needed 59 runs at MCG on last day with 9 wkts in hand and the day was washed out due to rains

--under Kohli Ind has won EVERY test outside asia we have batted first that includes SA, Eng and Aus now....we may have won batting 2nd in WI, but WI don't count these days,

so losing the toss, bowling first and chasing down whatever we get in the 4th inning is the final frontier for India

---Historically The Sydney pitch assists spinners but these days it does so in every test in some form.....

we have 3 clear choices and 2 muddled ones for Sydney

1) Go unchanged....and manage with 1 specialist spinner +Vihari

2) replace Rohit with pandya and Ishant with Ashwin or Kuldeep
this one gives 2 specialist spinners+ 3 seamers....without losing too much on batting

3) Replace a specialist batsman like vihari or rohit with Ashwin

This weakens the batting especially if we have to chase 200 in 4th inning

and 4) rather muddled variant of 1) i.e replace Jadeja with ashwin...whihc does not make sense but Kohli is capable of such a selection screw-up

and 5) replace Ishant with Ashwin and go with 2 seamers + 2 spinners ......2 seamers only is too little and again that leaves us exposed with too much workload on 2 seamers

my preference is 2) and can also accept 1)  BUT as we have seen Kohli is capable of any of these and esp 3) is worst of the options
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 4:56 am

Kohli said afterwards ....We will be even more positive in Sydney

Has scared me ghost ghost
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 5:55 am

Tim Paine already moaning about the pitch in Sydney - way to inspire the troops Tim! Maybe you should become a full time comedian with all your unreal unbelievable so so funny #banter behind the stumps!

Plonker. Hope he’s still somehow captain and in the test team when the Aussies come tour England in a similar vein to Handscomb
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 6:19 am

For me if it is going to spin, then India should go with the following

Rohit
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Pant
Ashwin
Jadeja
Shami
Bumrah

Rohit over Vihari at the top for me - because Vihari has been exposed massively against the short ball, and looks a walking wicket to me. Rohit might be able to swing his way to a 50 or something, and with the added batting depth that’s fine.

The three seamers (with one being Pandya - who I’d fancy to do well in Aus) + two spinner approach should be the one India go with for me

As for Australia - looks like Marnus in for Mitchell, but not sure that does a huge deal to resolve anything. If it’s really going to turn do they not have a reserve proper spinner to call upon instead of a part timer?
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Post by alfie on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 9:37 am

That is my Indian team too , Olly. And my Aus one except that I'm not sure if they won't want to rotate a seamer. (They really don't have another obvious spinner who can bat , except Agar , who seems to be out of form and favour) . I would ditch Finch ; but with no Shield games on it is hard to pick anyone new.

Don't share your disdain for Paine though : I reckon he is doing all right in a very difficult task at present - and I didn't think he was exactly "moaning" about the Sydney pitch . If it was the same interview I heard he was expressing hopes for a green one but without much confidence - seems reasonable enough. I would like to see him more aggressive in his field placings though : I thought he conceded the advantage to India too early - and trying to outdo Pujara in patience is a losing game...

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Post by VTR on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:01 am

Looking at the possible Aussie "improvements" I can't see anything other than 3-1 to India now. Absolutely gutted England won't be facing this version of the Aussies in the summer, as the sandpaper trio have of course completed their rehabilitation by blaming each other and appearing in stomach churningly cheesy adverts

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:22 am

KP_fan wrote:Kohli said afterwards  ....We will be even more positive in Sydney

Has scared me ghost ghost

Hi KP_f, I would be grateful if you could expand on your fears here. I appreciate that Kohli isn't everyone's favourite cup of tea but I thought both his declarations - particularly the first - were attacking and well judged moves. Even as a traditionalist normally favouring enforcement of the follow on, I also thought he made the right call in not doing so on this occasion.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:44 am

guildfordbat wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Kohli said afterwards  ....We will be even more positive in Sydney

Has scared me ghost ghost

Hi KP_f, I would be grateful if you could expand on your fears here. I appreciate that Kohli isn't everyone's favourite cup of tea but I thought both his declarations - particularly the first - were attacking and well judged moves. Even as a traditionalist normally favouring enforcement of the follow on, I also thought he made the right call in not doing so on this occasion.

I don't have a problem with his declarations or for that matter any of his decisions in this test.

When Kohli says directly or implicit.......... "We will be more positive or aggressive" like he did after first test here in Aus or narrow defeat in Eng after T1....he makes bizzare selections in the name of positivity / aggression.

So I am afraid he might drop a pure batsman for a pure bowler.......and weaken our batting further........or drop Jadeja for Ashwin
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:48 am

The Australian selectors literally are brain dead. Burns, Maxwell, Patterson and Wade all have fc averages over 40, yet they call up Marnus with his mediocre average of 34.

Australia will end up like the Windies if they don't buck up their ideas. Harris, Finch, M Marsh and Head all average in the 30s in domestic cricket e.g. substandard players

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:51 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Tim Paine already moaning about the pitch in Sydney - way to inspire the troops Tim! Maybe you should become a full time comedian with all your unreal unbelievable so so funny #banter behind the stumps!

Plonker. Hope he’s still somehow captain and in the test team when the Aussies come tour England in a similar vein to Handscomb
There's nothing wrong with Paine's captaincy. He's handicapped by missing the worlds best test batsman and probably the best opener in Test cricket.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:52 am

India's only change should be Ashwin for Rohit

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:53 am

KP_fan wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Kohli said afterwards  ....We will be even more positive in Sydney

Has scared me ghost ghost

Hi KP_f, I would be grateful if you could expand on your fears here. I appreciate that Kohli isn't everyone's favourite cup of tea but I thought both his declarations - particularly the first - were attacking and well judged moves. Even as a traditionalist normally favouring enforcement of the follow on, I also thought he made the right call in not doing so on this occasion.

I don't have a problem with his declarations or for that matter any of his decisions in this test.

When Kohli says directly or implicit.......... "We will be more positive or aggressive" like he did after first test here in Aus or narrow defeat in Eng after T1....he makes bizzare selections in the name of positivity / aggression.

So I am afraid he might drop a pure batsman for a pure bowler.......and weaken our batting further........or drop Jadeja for Ashwin

Hokey doke. Understand that and thanks. I thought your earlier post was wider than team selection. I don't know much about India's current pool of players (as my standing in Joey's competition demonstrates) but appreciate that not all Kohli's choices of who makes the eleven are universally applauded. Wink

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Post by msp83 on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:01 am

guildfordbat wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Kohli said afterwards  ....We will be even more positive in Sydney

Has scared me ghost ghost

Hi KP_f, I would be grateful if you could expand on your fears here. I appreciate that Kohli isn't everyone's favourite cup of tea but I thought both his declarations - particularly the first - were attacking and well judged moves. Even as a traditionalist normally favouring enforcement of the follow on, I also thought he made the right call in not doing so on this occasion.
Guildford,
there is one major thing that we are scared of Kohli, his selection fiascos! His grand proclamations can often be a prelude to one of those!
Yes, he was brilliant on the field this test, at Perth Paine did manage to get under his skin a bit, but Kohli was spot on with the no follow-on call and he didn't mess up the declaration. The field placements and bowling changes were good as well. And for once, his buddy who he smuggled into the side yet again, didn't entirely let him down! There was that 63 not out, and some valuable support to Bumrah, playing an instrumental role in the Marsh magic delivery.
All said, he still can mess up the team selection for SCG...

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Post by msp83 on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:15 am

As for the selection, if the track is a real spinning track should India consider 2 spinners. Else, go with Jadeja and parttime support from Vihari.
There are concerns around Vihari and the short ball. The guy does have a fine temperament, but he has a serious technical issue with the short stuff and the Australian bowlers are really going to be at him in the next test. Will he find a way around the issue by then? Vihari is clearly a better test player and a middle order bat than Rohit. Sharma in fact is not so much troubled by the short ball, in fact he can play it very well. It is when the ball would move that he becomes useless, or when his shot selection sense would go for a walk. Sharma should open and Vihari bat 6 for me, but don't think Kohli would ask his friend to do it for the team, for Sharma, the team always will have to do it for him!
And if they have to play Ashwin, then it has to be either at the expense of Rohit or Vihari that is my preferred option, or in place of Ishant with Pandya coming in for Vihari with Sharma opening.
And Ashwin should play only if he's fully fit, don't think I would try Kuldeep at this stage. If Ashwin's not fit, go unchanged...

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 2:42 pm

msp83 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Kohli said afterwards  ....We will be even more positive in Sydney

Has scared me ghost ghost

Hi KP_f, I would be grateful if you could expand on your fears here. I appreciate that Kohli isn't everyone's favourite cup of tea but I thought both his declarations - particularly the first - were attacking and well judged moves. Even as a traditionalist normally favouring enforcement of the follow on, I also thought he made the right call in not doing so on this occasion.
Guildford,
there is one major thing that we are scared of Kohli, his selection fiascos! His grand proclamations can often be a prelude to one of those!
Yes, he was brilliant on theto field this test, at Perth Paine did manage to get under his skin a bit, but Kohli was spot on with the no follow-on call and he didn't mess up the declaration. The field placements and bowling changes were good as well. And for once, his buddy who he smuggled into the side yet again, didn't entirely let him down! There was that 63 not out, and some valuable support to Bumrah, playing an instrumental role in the Marsh magic delivery.
All said, he still can mess up the team selection for SCG...

Thanks, msp. Noted and understood.

The guy from your side I've been impressed by in this series is Pujara. Not just his stroke play but even more his resolute and patient approach to remain in and keep going. Looking very much a proper Test batsman as he's built the foundations to put you in a strong position. It would seem he likes Australian conditions and tracks. All very different to the torrid time he had playing for Yorkshire last season in the English County Championship where he averaged just a shade above 14 from his 6 matches and 12 completed innings. I don't think he ever came to terms with the often overcast conditions and frequently moving ball. I saw Sam Curran get him out twice (in the same day, I think) early season at the Oval where he never got started.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 2:57 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Kohli said afterwards  ....We will be even more positive in Sydney

Has scared me ghost ghost

Hi KP_f, I would be grateful if you could expand on your fears here. I appreciate that Kohli isn't everyone's favourite cup of tea but I thought both his declarations - particularly the first - were attacking and well judged moves. Even as a traditionalist normally favouring enforcement of the follow on, I also thought he made the right call in not doing so on this occasion.
Guildford,
there is one major thing that we are scared of Kohli, his selection fiascos! His grand proclamations can often be a prelude to one of those!
Yes, he was brilliant on theto  field this test, at Perth Paine did manage to get under his skin a bit, but Kohli was spot on with the no follow-on call and he didn't mess up the declaration. The field placements and bowling changes were good as well. And for once, his buddy who he smuggled into the side yet again, didn't entirely let him down! There was that 63 not out, and some valuable support to Bumrah, playing an instrumental role in the Marsh magic delivery.
All said, he still can mess up the team selection for SCG...

Thanks, msp. Noted and understood.

The guy from your side I've been impressed by in this series is Pujara. Not just his stroke play but even more his resolute and patient approach to remain in and keep going. Looking very much a proper Test batsman as he's built the foundations to put you in a strong position. It would seem he likes Australian conditions and tracks. All very different to the torrid time he had playing for Yorkshire last season in the English County Championship where he averaged just a shade above 14 from his 6 matches and 12 completed innings. I don't think he ever came to terms with the often overcast conditions and frequently moving ball. I saw Sam Curran get him out twice (in the same day, I think) early season at the Oval where he never got started.

It seems to be a feature of Pujaras career that hes been inconsistent and prone to periods where hes really struggled, despite being a technically good and low risk batsman. There was a run of 21 tests where he only score 1 century, then scored 3 in 4 innings being the most extreme example.
Overall hes averaging nearly 50 batting at 3, theres very few batsmen who've managed that in recent years.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:14 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:For me if it is going to spin, then India should go with the following

Rohit
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Pant
Ashwin
Jadeja
Shami
Bumrah
That looks good to me, 2 fresh bowlers in the form of Ashwin and Pandya, and a deep batting line up.

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 12:11 am

Firstly, my congratulations to all Indian fans on here. OK clap

Your team has played like proper, seasoned professional cricketers - a few chinks yes - but overall it has been a pretty convincing display of skill, determination and of course; intent.

Our players on the other hand; whilst giving their best, have simply not been up to task (apart from Cummins in this last Test especially) and their serious deficiencies have been clearly exposed. They seem to be going from bad to worse!

We would kill to have a couple of Ace batsmen like a Kohli or a Pujara... and even a Rahane or an Agarwal; who I thought typified more of that true grit on his debut Test appearance on such a big stage.

Australia lack that application. Our "batsmen" just can't seem to occupy the crease; weather the early storm and knuckle down for the long haul.
Credit to the Indian bowling of course. Their concerted efforts really came to fruition after all their hard work and preparation.

Bumrah is almost beyond words. So unorthodox; yet radar-like accuracy and control of the cherry. No wonder he looks so happy and at ease.
The street cricket (with a wall close behind) bowling action has proven to be deadly effective. So good to hear his story and even better to witness his success.

Agree with Alfie and Guildford above. Tim Paine has done the best he could after being thrust into this situation and being dealt this group of players. As for the chatter behind the stumps... it works better if you're winning but I did cringe the more they kept replaying it here.
By the way, I would love to see each BBL team with an Indian or two playing although I do realise their IPL contracts prohibit them. Our players should babysit theirs though - "we" owe them a favour. I'd rather watch Pant play for Hobart than Paine... who could perhaps do the babysitting.

I can't see how Finch retains his spot as opener. If Australia are to defy the inevitable defeat at the SCG then I'm not sure his head is in the right place and the finger injury has affected his confidence no doubt. Better to put him out of his misery and let someone else bear the heavy load.
I would then revert back to Khawaja as an opener personally. Huge pressure on him though - his brother was re-arrested a couple of days ago.

I would then go for some more hard changes. All or nothing-like. Bye bye Mitch! Because there is nobody screaming out in batting performance for the Sheffield Shield (apart from Wade ave. 63 but I don't think they should go back there) we only have very recent BBL 'form' to go by. I do think Sydney would suit a player like Maxwell or even D'Arcy Short but the step up would probably be too much for him and he's yet another leftie.

I can't fathom Labuschagne's inclusion in the squad. I'm just listening to him now - he doesn't fill me with confidence at all. Averaging 59 with the ball with only 5 wickets in 5 matches? We require more batting strength anyway... not some thoroughly untested 'all-rounder'. What are they thinking? I'd rather see Fawad Ahmed or Ashton Agar instead. Fawad for his sub-continental toughness and resilience and with now 5 years local experience; or Agar for his fighting qualities and that x-factor. That won't happen though...

So, I can't see anything other than an Indian rout... possibly within 3-4 days. Then their Final Frontier will have been well and truly conquered.
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 6:11 am

Pal....thx for your best wishes
Many Indian fans are concerned that Kohli's confidence/ momentum might translate into yet another error in team selection....that he has a track record of in every overseas series.

Re: Aus,
I think they are a solid bowling side....regardless of Warne questioning them.
Warne's stats completely discount the bowlers skill & ability to polish of the lower orders for next to nothing.....which is a significant positive.
And that most of them can bat decently makes a world class team from no. 7 ( Paine ) downwards

Their problem lies in not having any substantial batting in top-6..
While Finch was found out in red ball cricket.....& Mitch.M's selection itself is baffling
given his domestic FC average of 28.....it's Khwaja who we expected to deliver a BIG inning which he hasn't so far....and maybe he is due in Sydney.
Head, Marsh S & Harris have come out with credits .

I understand Aus has to go thru 3 more tests....2 of which are against easy Lanka....before Warner & Smith return.
Aus should use  these 3  tests to try out younger specialist batsmen.....and maybe give a bit of rest of the 3 seamers esp against Lanka.
Important to focus on specialists rather than Labuschagne type bits & pieces....although he did quite well in UAE with bat and ball.

Time Paine is doing a good job under the circumstances & holding his place in the 11 also on merit....and someone like him is needed to hold the side together until the next long term captain is found given that Smith & Warner won't captain again.

They can start with naming Cummins as the Vice Captain for the ashes tour...if they think he is the next likely leader.....like I heard discussed by Aussie commentators.
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 6:27 am

BCCI : Rohit Sharma left for Mumbai to attend to his wife who has delivered a baby girl. Rohit will miss the final Test. There will be no replacement player in the Test squad. He will join the ODI squad on the 8th of January 2019, (file pic) #AUSvIND

Very Happy OK

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 7:27 am

See... dreams can come true, KPF! Laugh Although Australia could sure do with someone of his calibre at the moment. He did well in the 1st innings.

True about Australia just taking stock, trying a bit harder using the best possible selections we have for the next few matches v SL...then see what happens when Warner & Smith have served their time. The Australian batting cupboard is incredibly bare at the moment. We need someone to stand up and be counted and show more presence at the crease but it takes time to get established at the highest level. Years in fact.

Yes, Cummins led by example this last one. Always knew he had the talent. I hope he continues to excel in the coming years.
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 8:28 am

It Must Be Love wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:For me if it is going to spin, then India should go with the following

Rohit
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Pant
Ashwin
Jadeja
Shami
Bumrah
That looks good to me, 2 fresh bowlers in the form of Ashwin and Pandya, and a deep batting line up.

That to me is a side playing for a draw, which from an Indian perspective probably isnt a bad idea. Having an extra bowling option will help moderate the load on Shami and Bumrah and reduce the risk of them getting injured. Taking 10 first innings wickets might be a struggle though, but if they bat first and rack up a big score its easy to see Australias awful batting fold again.
The issue being of course that with Rohit out Vihari presumably keeps his spot.

The big chance for Australia as ever comes from bowlers bundling India out cheaply. I suspect they will want as lively a pitch as possible to make the game more of a lottery, but with Sydney often being a spinners pitch Lyon will be a big factor again as he was in the first test. Its a lot to ask though, and a twin Indian spin attack should make it very tough for Aus. They absolutely have to win the toss to be in with a shout.

Selections wise for Aus...I see everyone hates Finch now proving once again that all the best players are the ones not getting picked. Calls for proven failures like Maxwell and Wade to be given another chance seem to be more of the same. Labuschagne is Australias only way of squaring an additional spin option (bar Maxwell) without weakening the batting, maybe a case of picking players of a type for conditions rather than the best players reminiscent of some England teams of the last couple of years. If youre slating him for being bits and pieces thats what hes replacing ... Marsh has had umpteen last chances and almost always failed. Labuschagnes stats quoted in Joeys post are his T20 ones...hes played two tests and taken 7 wickets at 22, which whilst giving a very different picture to the one painted arent that meaningful he is a pretty mediocre bowler and batsmen. Calling for specialists is all well and good but short of only having 4 bowlers and Lyon bowling all day every day how do they do that? If they already cant find 5 batsmen where will they get 6 from whilst dropping one?

All that said I am a little surprised that Burns is continuing to be overlooked. Of all the next generation batsmen theyve tried in the past few years hes been one of the better performing, and in an area where they are desperately lacking quality and confidence. He was arguably harshly dropped two years ago and has only had one test in tough conditions since. Hes made good runs in Shield cricket (opinions on domestic averages aside) it does seem odd that hes not even getting a sniff of the team. Whilst not young anymore hes still under 30 and in his prime.

Going pretty much straight into the tests against Sri Lanka means there should be some continuity between the current changes squad and those that play in those games, but Aus really do need to take the opportunity to try at least one new bat. The issue they may have is that the 4 senior bowlers will have already been flogged in 4 tests, a short break before 2 more places a lot of load on them. Starc and Cummins have bowled more than is ideal in this series, and it could be prudent for the long term to rotate them out for the Sri Lanka tests.
Fortunately for Aus Lanka are a rank awful side and hugely low on morale. Im not sure how bad Mathews injury is but if he doesnt play then that just further weakens an already awful side whos players will be dreaming of T20 leagues and the world cup.

All of this really shows how important Smith and Warner are to Aus and how their star players (including the 3 seamers and lyon) are in a totally different class to the rest of the squad and Shield cricketers. As it is whoever they call in seems to be a case of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. Once those guys are back and if the bowlers stay fit Aus will look a very different team. The lack of new stars coming through has to be a worry, but both Smith and Lyon have shown that pretty average cricketers in their 20s can be developed into class talents.

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 8:50 am

Gooseberry wrote: Labuschagnes stats quoted in Joeys post are his T20 ones...hes played two tests and taken 7 wickets at 22, which whilst giving a very different picture to the one painted arent that meaningful he is a pretty mediocre bowler and batsmen.

No they're his Shield stats, Gooseberry. He's been overlooked for the BB thus far. But point taken about his UAE returns, although conditions here will be quite different. First rain in ages as I type.. after a 5 day heatwave... could spice things up?

I know he appears confident and 'talked the talk' earlier today when interviewed (but I'd put that down more to exhilaration at being selected) but I've still got a sense he would be eaten alive by this Indian side on a roll.

I simply don't think he's the answer given the match situation and what's at stake. We need a more experienced older head who can stick it out. Rogers had that type of determination a few years back. Maybe Joe Burns would be worth one more crack as you suggest. Although of course I'd still want him (ML) to do well if he gets his chance.
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Post by sirfredperry on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 12:47 pm

This really was India's big opportunity to really do something in a Test series in Australia as this is arguably one of Australia's weakest-ever batting line-ups.
Still think this could finish 2-2 but, as has been said above, Aus really have to bat first in Sydney to have the best chance.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 1:04 pm

Pal, what is the deal with Matthew Renshaw? Yes I could see he hasn't been scoring big in recent times in domestic cricket, but not sure the Australian selectors dealt with him very smartly. When he came to India in the last tour, really looked like he belonged. Temperament was something to be admired. How has he fallen down the pecking order so drastically? Don't think they should have dropped him for the last Ashes... Think the youngster's confidence has been badly hit...

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Post by msp83 on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 1:13 pm

Meanwhile good news for Rohit Sharma, he has left for Mumbai to join his family as his wife has given birth to a baby girl! Rohit will be missing the last test and will be rejoining the side only for the ODI leg now.
In isolation, not bad at all for India I would say though it might complicate the selection situation for the 4th test. So with no Rohit, will that mean Pandya for Rohit and Vihari continuing to open? Unless they add Ashwin also into the mix and lengthen the batting order down to 9, that could be a bit difficult, as Vihari is struggling with the short ball and Pandya is not really a number 6... I would have all 4 of Ashwin, Pandya, Pant and Jadeja, and in that order. Think Jadeja's currently much better than a number 9, but Pandya and Pant, if they get going can score bigger runs more quickly, and as such Jadeja will have to be the insurance at 9. Of the lot, Ashwin's the most proper batting option on bouncy tracks, and he has to come in at 6.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 1:24 pm

Renshaw played India for Aus A back in September and got 19 runs over two innings. Hes been poor in the Shield too, although scored a few in the CC.
So yes maybe he was jettisoned a bit too soon (like Burns) but hes done nothing to demand a recall.

The Aussie batting situation does resemble the England one to some extent, lots of players coming in and showing a glimpse of promise then disappearing without a trace. The difference being that they dont have a ridiculous number of all rounders to bail them out but doe have Smith and Warner to come back.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 3:53 pm

msp83 wrote:Meanwhile good news for Rohit Sharma, he has left for Mumbai to join his family as his wife has given birth to a baby girl! Rohit will be missing the last test and will be rejoining the side only for the ODI leg now.
In isolation, not bad at all for India I would say though it might complicate the selection situation for the 4th test. So with no Rohit, will that mean Pandya for Rohit and Vihari continuing to open? Unless they add Ashwin also into the mix and lengthen the batting order down to 9, that could be a bit difficult, as Vihari is struggling with the short ball and Pandya is not really a number 6... I would have all 4 of Ashwin, Pandya, Pant and Jadeja, and in that order. Think Jadeja's currently much better than a number 9, but Pandya and Pant, if they get going can score bigger runs more quickly, and as such Jadeja will have to be the insurance at 9. Of the lot, Ashwin's the most proper batting option on bouncy tracks, and he has to come in at 6.

Pandya for Rohit and Ashwin for Ishant
gives 3 seamers+ 2 spinners and batting down to No.9
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Post by It Must Be Love on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 4:50 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:Meanwhile good news for Rohit Sharma, he has left for Mumbai to join his family as his wife has given birth to a baby girl! Rohit will be missing the last test and will be rejoining the side only for the ODI leg now.
In isolation, not bad at all for India I would say though it might complicate the selection situation for the 4th test. So with no Rohit, will that mean Pandya for Rohit and Vihari continuing to open? Unless they add Ashwin also into the mix and lengthen the batting order down to 9, that could be a bit difficult, as Vihari is struggling with the short ball and Pandya is not really a number 6... I would have all 4 of Ashwin, Pandya, Pant and Jadeja, and in that order. Think Jadeja's currently much better than a number 9, but Pandya and Pant, if they get going can score bigger runs more quickly, and as such Jadeja will have to be the insurance at 9. Of the lot, Ashwin's the most proper batting option on bouncy tracks, and he has to come in at 6.

Pandya for Rohit and Ashwin for Ishant
gives 3 seamers+ 2 spinners and batting down to No.9
Yeah. If Shami is exhausted then we can drop him too for Bhuvi. Is Bhuvi bowling terribly in the nets or something? He's not even been talked about.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 6:44 am

Oh man that Indian squad that’s been named to choose from doesn’t even include Pandya but does include Umesh???

Sounds like Ashwin failed a fitness test too...
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Post by KP_fan on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 7:13 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Oh man that Indian squad that’s been named to choose from doesn’t even include Pandya but does include Umesh???

Sounds like Ashwin failed a fitness test too...


India squad of 13 for Sydney Test:
KL Rahul, Mayank Agarwal, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli (capt), Ajinkya Rahane, Hanuma Vihari, Rishabh Pant (wk), Ravindra Jadeja, Kuldeep Yadav, R Ashwin, Mohammed Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, Umesh Yadav

--Why no Pandya?......that's why msp and I say we are afraid of Kohli's selections & he is so strong that none of the coaches dares to oppose his whims.

--Ashwin is in 13 apparently before being declared fit....and no Bhuvi again for Ishant this time........but Umesh in
But the 3rd spinner Kuldeep also in

My Prognosis of the final 11 composition ....
If Ashwin is even 90% fit......Ind will play 5 bowlers. including him....and Rahul + Kuldeep sit out
If Ashwin not fit.....Ind will play 4 bowlers including 2 spinners.....Ashwin and Umesh will sit out
(and in this case don't be surprissed if Rahul bats in middle)
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 10:31 am

What's this obsession with Pandya from you Indian fans? He's equally as talentless as Mitch Marsh. Pandya is a dirty slogger and his dibbly dobbers will be cannon fodder in Australian conditions.

India's premier all rounder is Jadeja. They don't need project players like Pandya.

Also good all Virat, his brother Rohit is unavailable, so he gleefully recalls his son Rahul.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 12:00 pm

What on earth is going on

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Post by It Must Be Love on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 12:04 pm

It looks like this is what the XI will be:

Rahul
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Vihari
Pant
Jadeja
Shami
Yadav/Kuldeep (depending on conditions)
Bumrah

Ashwin was ruled out by Kohli so don't see him making it, frankly bizarre he's in the 13 to be honest.

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 12:35 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:It looks like this is what the XI will be:

Rahul
Agarwal
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Vihari
Pant
Jadeja
Shami
Yadav/Kuldeep (depending on conditions)
Bumrah  

Ashwin was ruled out by Kohli so don't see him making it, frankly bizarre he's in the 13 to be honest.

I saw Kohli's pre-match conference & you may be right...that's likely to be the team and with Umesh being the 3rd seamer
as Kohli clearly indicated they are counting on Vihari as 2nd spinner
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 2:02 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:What's this obsession with Pandya from you Indian fans? He's equally as talentless as Mitch Marsh. Pandya is a dirty slogger and his dibbly dobbers will be cannon fodder in Australian conditions.

India's premier all rounder is Jadeja. They don't need project players like Pandya.

Also good all Virat, his brother Rohit is unavailable, so he gleefully recalls his son Rahul.

Usual exaggeration there but i do agree that Pandya has suddenly become the new I(nd)ian Botham now hes not in the side. Everyone hated him when he was playing in England where his mediocre pace had more chance of being effective.
The selection of Marsh though was smart from Aus, even if they did lose heavily it wasnt down to him being there. Cummins was full of praise for the role he played in protecting the senior seamers from overwork and he at least kept things tight. The fifth bowling options do matter.
For India though that should be a second spinner, especially at Sydney, and ideally of course they would be playing Ashwin and Jadeja. With that out the window theyv'e ended up likely relying on a pretty average seamer (Yadav) and the part time spin of Vihari.
in that context I can see some of the reason why people are perplexed over Pandyas omission, he would allow them to put their eggs heavily in the spin basket and just play the two specialist seamers and Kuldeep..also enabling Vihari to concentrate entirely on batting.
Bhuvi I just dont see as an Aussie pitches bowler.

Ashwins inclusion in the 13 seems more like a sign of the confusing mess of indians backroom staff than anything else. Its going to make Kholi look very stupid if he does end up playing!

Both sides are going to struggle a bit to get the balance just right, but if there is spin that surely plays into Indias hands regardless of who they end up selecting.


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Post by msp83 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 7:32 pm

Oh gosh! Bloody Kohli at it again even when Rohit isn't there in the mix. What stupid drama is going on out there?
One moment Ashwin's ruled out bu the media manager as he wasn't fit, Kohli was all so disappointed about it and talking long about how he would miss Ashwin, and then the next moment, boom! Ashwin's in the 13, given till the morning of the day to prove his fitness... No Hardik Pandya, and they go all mysterious on Ishant. Later it is informed Ishant is not quite fit, some ribcage discomfort it seems. Umesh in the 13, recall for Rahul who seemed cluseless about his next run only last week. Murali Vijay looked less cluseless in comparison to Rahul, and there was the option of Parthiv Patel. Neither get a look in, and Pandya, who might have worked out in the given situation as far as the balance is concerned is out of the frame as well.
A royal typical Kohli selection fiasco on the cards!!
going by Virat's trackrecord, he's likely to go in with 4 bowlers with Kuldip being the 2nd spinner. 2 spinners and 2 seamers would be terrible I feel. Kuldip might go for runs, and the control that has been the highlight of Indian bowling efforts in this series might be compromised, and Bumrah and Shami may lose their effectiveness having to bowl much longer spells more regularly.
All these talk of the track turning miles, I don't believe. It might have more for the spinner as the game progreses nd the 2nd spinner might be handy particularly in the 2nd innings. But you would need 3 seamers in the first innings for sure.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 7:41 pm

Rather than Umesh, I would have preferred Bhuvi. Remember RP Singh did well at the SCG once, and sometimes there could be something for the swing bowler. Bhuvi would have added more to the batting as well. There is not a great deal of difference overall between Umesh and Bhuvi as bowlers in the longer formats. In Swinging conditions Bhuvi is miles ahead, but else, Yadav might be a bit more suited to home conditions and even the bouncy tracks in Australia. But he's a rhythm bowler and usually take time to get going in a series. He was quite lacklustre at Perth, where his pace was significantly down. If Umesh isn't steaming in at full tilt, Bhuvi any day is a better overall package.
I would have gone in with
Agarwal, Vihari, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Jadeja, Pant, Pandya, Kumar, Shami, Bumrah.
Kohlie is likely to go Rahul, Agarwal, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Vihari, Pant, Jadeja, Umesh/Kuldip, Shami, Bumrah.
Hope Ashwin's somehow able to make it, so that Kohli won't do too much damage with the selections...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:07 pm

India XI: Mayank Agarwal, KL Rahul, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli (c), Ajinkya Rahane, Hanuma Vihari, Rishabh Pant (wk), Ravindra Jadeja, Kuldeep Yadav, Mohammed Shami, Jasprit Bumrah #AUSvIND

Luckily with that lineup for India they’ve won the toss and are batting - very bold to go in with only two seaming options.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:08 pm

Australia XI: Usman Khawaja, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Shaun Marsh, Travis Head, Pete Handscomb, Tim Paine (c, wk), Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood
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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:28 pm

Olly - you'll be delighted Handscomb gets another chance to be on the Ashes plane. Smile

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:32 pm

Who have I got, PJ?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:44 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Olly - you'll be delighted Handscomb gets another chance to be on the Ashes plane. Smile

Let’s hope Kuldeep bowls like he did in England in the tests! #HandscombfortheAshes2k19
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Post by Pal Joey on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:52 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Who have I got, PJ?

Khawaja, Paine, Starc, Lyon, Pujara, Kohli, Shami, Bumrah - IND
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