India VS Australia 2018-19

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India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Wed 21 Nov 2018, 12:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

The only time India lifted the Border-Gavaskar trophy was in 2003-04 when the series was drawn 1-1. Many considers this is the best chance for India to lift the trophy with a win, as this Aussies side is the weakest one to have played against India. Let's see how the summer shower it's heat in Australia. The schedule are as follows

T-20 series:
Match 1 - 21 November - Brisbane
Match 2 - 23 November - Melbourne
Match 3 - 25 November - Sydney


Test Matches

1. Adelaide : 6-12-18 to 10-12-18
2. Perth : 14-12-2018 to 18-12-18
3. Melbourne : 26-12-18 to 30-12-18
4. Sydney : 03-01-19 to 07-01-19

ODI Series:

Match 1 - 12 Jan - Sydney
Match 2 - 15 Jan - Adelaide
Match 3 - 18 Jan - Melbourne

To be honest I am not happy with the scheduling. Indian team management thinks that T-20 or the ODIs are the best way to get acclimatised to the home conditions and they were proved wrong in the last two tours. Still they have only one practise game for preparations. Also if the nepotism wonder R. Sharma gets into the XI, I will support Australia to repeat 2011.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 9:07 am

India are for the first time going in with a decent bowling unit to Australia. In the past it was one good seamer, Kapil, Srinath or Zaheer, and the spinners even Kumble and Harbhajan, or the Bedi led lot would not be in a position to shape the series in Australian conditions.
Now on the other hand, there is Ishant with considerable experience of these conditions, and even Umesh and Shami have some decent outings in the past without being outstanding. Then there is Bumrah, the man with that something extra who is quickly emerging as the leader of the seam bowling unit. R Ashwin's record in Australia isn't great at all. In fact it just improved from pathetic to poor in the last tour. Similar was his condition in England and South Africa too, wherein now he has half-decent records. Even an incremental improvement from him can be handy for the seamers...
But Australian seamers are most certainly as a unit, is superior to the Indian unit. Mitchell Starc, Pat Cummins and Josh Hazelwood, are man-to-man superior to Bumrah, Ishant and Shami. Bhuvneshwar Kumar is not a typical Australian conditions bowler, and in any case he's not back to his best after the injury that forced him out of the England tests. Umesh is a handy replacement for any of the first choice quicks and had a fine series against the West Indies. Overall its a good unit, but not spectacular.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 9:25 am

As for the batting, Kohli clearly is the best of the lot across both sides and there is a considerable gap between him and the rest. His record in Australia is terrific, in fact it was in Australia that he really evolved into a proper test batsman. Apart from Kohli though, the Indian batting unit does not inspire confidence. Vijay and Rahane were quite good last time round, but those days seem far too distant for both of them. For the last 2 years, both have been struggling though they have played some important hands in this period. Cheteshwar Pujara is half the batsman away from Asian conditions though the most recent tours of England and South Africa he was the next best to Kohli. Lokesh Rahul is in the midst of a career crisis and is finding newer ways to get out on an everyday basis. Rishabh Pant is a match winner in Asian conditions, but is a work in progress with bat and gloves at this point, and though he's the best option available, can't be expected to do big things with the bat consistently.
The lower order batting is pretty poor. Ashwin's not been very good of late,, Shami is good enough for a few slogs at 10, Ishant can hang around a bit at 10, Bumrah belongs to the Chris Martin school of batting! There is no number 9 in that lineup.
Australia on the other hand have Cummins and Starc who are closer to being bowling all-rounders. Lyon and Hazelwood both are good enough to bat 9. They are not in the league of Curran, Rashid and Broad, but there is a gulf between the Indian and Australian lower orders.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 9:34 am

Australia's weakness is their batting. It is untested and inexperienced, and a batting lineup with M Marsh at 5 would lack quality. But they have also gone for a longer batting unit. They are playing at home. Australia in the last few years have produced some of the most ludicrous flat roads of pitches. Those pitches might offer some bounce and pace, but not much seam movement and the conditions usually don't favour swing. And the stupid Kukaburra is a disservice to the very game! The Indian seam bowling unit, though it is worth talking about them in terms of a unit, is not strongest in terms of bounce and pace. The Australians are more suited for the same. So eventually, it comes down to the 2 batting units.
I would be surprised if all tests produce results. And I think the Australian bowling is superior enough, and the Australian batting unit long enough to give them an advantage.  2-0 Australia.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Duty281 on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 6:16 pm

Difficult series to call. To put it bluntly, India's batting looks stronger, but Australia's bowling looks far better. I think I narrowly favour India, to be honest, especially with Adelaide conducive to spin.

2-1 India. Might be worth a poke at 6/4 on them winning the series.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 8:54 pm

msp83 wrote:Australia's weakness is their batting. It is untested and inexperienced, and a batting lineup with M Marsh at 5 would lack quality. But they have also gone for a longer batting unit. They are playing at home. Australia in the last few years have produced some of the most ludicrous flat roads of pitches. Those pitches might offer some bounce and pace, but not much seam movement and the conditions usually don't favour swing. And the stupid Kukaburra is a disservice to the very game! The Indian seam bowling unit, though it is worth talking about them in terms of a unit, is not strongest in terms of bounce and pace. The Australians are more suited for the same. So eventually, it comes down to the 2 batting units.
I would be surprised if all tests produce results. And I think the Australian bowling is superior enough, and the Australian batting unit long enough to give them an advantage.  2-0 Australia.

Hi msp - good to have you around again. I went along with a lot of your posts this (UK) morning. However, I would have thought though that we could be looking at 4 positive results from this series. As you say, there's weakness in the batting and in any case Test sides don't seem to bat time like when I were a lad. Wink I'm assuming the weather will stay fine.

Posters here generally going for a tight series result. I can understand that from looking at the makeup of the teams but Australia edge it for me with their attack. Menacing seam bowlers with Lyon enabling them to rest as needed whilst still posing a threat of his own. Also - and this could just be perception rather than fact - but teams seem to fold more than they did in the past. I would go Australia to take the series 3-1 or maybe even a clean sweep. But ... I'm not a betting man and won't be until I see a poor bookie!

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Pal Joey on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 9:44 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:Australia's weakness is their batting. It is untested and inexperienced, and a batting lineup with M Marsh at 5 would lack quality. But they have also gone for a longer batting unit. They are playing at home. Australia in the last few years have produced some of the most ludicrous flat roads of pitches. Those pitches might offer some bounce and pace, but not much seam movement and the conditions usually don't favour swing. And the stupid Kukaburra is a disservice to the very game! The Indian seam bowling unit, though it is worth talking about them in terms of a unit, is not strongest in terms of bounce and pace. The Australians are more suited for the same. So eventually, it comes down to the 2 batting units.
I would be surprised if all tests produce results. And I think the Australian bowling is superior enough, and the Australian batting unit long enough to give them an advantage.  2-0 Australia.

Hi msp - good to have you around again. I went along with a lot of your posts this (UK) morning. However,  I would have thought though that we could be looking at 4 positive results from this series. As you say, there's weakness in the batting and in any case Test sides don't seem to bat time like when I were a lad. Wink I'm assuming the weather will stay fine.

Posters here generally going for a tight series result. I can understand that from looking at the makeup of the teams but Australia edge it for me with their attack. Menacing seam bowlers with Lyon enabling them to rest as needed whilst still posing a threat of his own. Also - and this could just be perception rather than fact - but teams seem to fold more than they did in the past. I would go Australia to take the series 3-1 or maybe even a clean sweep. But ... I'm not a betting man and won't be until I see a poor bookie!

That last paragraph was really uplifting to read read, Guildford. Smile

I think there would have to be a few batting revelations arise over the next few weeks with Head and Handscomb proving their worth and the likes of Finch, Usman and Marsh making big statements with the bat... and not getting off to horror starts and being behind the 8-ball at early stages - as they seem to do with more regularity of late.

I would wager (even though I not a betting man either) on the greater possibility of Australia folding at various stages given the lack of big stage Test experience, high pressure stakes at hand. Even at home.

I know that sounds a little defeatist but I fear this might be a bridge too far for this largely inexperienced (in comparison to India) lineup.
India are full of more seasoned Test performers and I get the sense they are even more mentally focused than in 2014-5.
If there is ever a time for an historic Indian series victory away in Australia - this is it!

Whilst I agree Australia has a slight edge in their bowling attack, India have much greater depth in batting. If they can knock some shape out of that pace attack and settle in... well, we could be in for a batting masterclass from Kohli et al.

I have never felt less confident of our chances against an Indian touring side. Without Smith and Warner there are a couple of decent sized pillars of batting missing. That is a massive handicap for Australia. You need all the big guns there against India. Can't afford to lose proven run-scorers.

Even bumping into Indians around here... I'd tell them I'm not so confident... could be embarrassing for Australia.
They counter graciously with : yes, but once Kohli gets out the rest of them collapse. I just think our blokes are better at collapsing than India. Smile
Hope I'm wrong.

It would be so hard to watch an uphill battle with already depleted resources. They have a knack of making things hard for themselves.
This self destructive habit will have to stop if Australia are to have any chance of pulling off a miracle series win.
I think it will be 2-2 or India 3-1 or 2-1.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Pal Joey on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 10:43 pm

By the way, if anyone is interested in a shortened, more simpler version of our tipping comp.

http://www.606v2.com/t68242-australia-india-tipping-competition#3760912

Pick your players / result & then post on the above thread.

2 batsmen from each side
2 bowlers from each side
Winner (1st Test only)

I can whip up a spreadsheet - it would be good to get some picks in before play commences but you can trust me to turn a blind eye if you post your picks anytime before tea. Smile

Same as previous tipping competitions but watered down.

- score 1 point = 1 run. Bonus 25 points for 100 runs. 50 point bonus for a double. 100 extra points for 300 runs.
- score 25 points = 1 wicket. 5-for an extra 50 points on top of 125 points = 175. 10-for; an extra 100 = 350. 35 points for a caught & bowled.
- score 20 points for a catch (any of your 4 batsmen/bowlers) 35 points for a caught & bowled.
- for above: except if you have chosen a w/k in your four; then 10 points for each caught behind, 20 points for a stumping.

Pick the correct result - win or draw each Test = 50 points

Here are the lineups:

Australia:
Finch, Harris, Khawaja, Marsh, Handscomb, Head,
Paine (capt & wk), Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazlewood

India:
Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli (capt), Rahane, Sharma/Vihari,
Pant (wk), Ashwin, Shami, Sharma, Bumrah

I'll go

Khawaja, Marsh, Cummins, Lyon
Pujara, Kohli, Shami, Sharma
Australia

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 11:17 pm

Hi Joey - you could be right. I don't know so much outside Surrey cricket and some will tell you I don't know much there either! Wink

I just feel the batting weaknesses will mean we'll get positive results and that the Australian bowlers will exploit them more effectively. The home batsmen do have frailties and could fold quickly but ''my man'' Finchy can do a lot of damage if he gets a couple of hours at the crease. We'll soon start to see ...

PS I've given the kiss of death to 8 poor cricketers on your other thread.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Duty281 on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 11:34 pm

India win the toss and elect to bat. Huge advantage on this beauty of a pitch.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 12:09 am

I starting to question how India go about their selection. Vihari had a decent debut in England. Yet now in Australia Kohli's mate Rohit gets ago at 6, despite having played no first class cricket since the second Test in South Africa

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 12:43 am

17/2. Not the start India wanted. Two more in the hutch by lunch and they will be in trouble.

Ah well, bed for me. Back in the (UK) morning.Enjoy it, folks.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by alfie on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 2:11 am

Duty281 wrote:India win the toss and elect to bat. Huge advantage on this beauty of a pitch.

An advantage they have rather butchered in this first session....from all accounts some good bowling - as you'd expect - but also a few loose strokes. Australia will be delighted to have four out so cheaply ; India really need Pujara and the oft-slighted Rohit to stage a recovery...

Any concerns Khawaja might have been distracted by his brother's case rather put away by his catching of Kohli - apparently a real blinder. And a big blow to the tourists.

Early days yet.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 8:03 am

250/9 now. Never write off Australia on home pitches when they have their first choice attack fit.

Also dont write off India till we've seen how bad Australias batting can be. Pujara has shown that theres runs to be got out there though  so no question this is a well below par score (pending an incredible last wicket stand)

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by KP_fan on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 8:31 am

--What a shoddy batting day for India.....the top4 fell playing away from the body...on a pitch that wasn't seaming so much, once the shine was off..... and had they stuck around a bit longer batting would have been much easier

--but it could have been worse had the last 3 wickets not put on 130 odd and more than doubled the score
I think 350 is a par for this pitch.....BUT

1) Aus is not a par batting side
2) Ind has won the toss and hence Aus will bat 4th ...and this is a very significant factor that  I harp upon all the time
3) Out field is HUGE and very slow......so often times good drives in the V-arch ( Cover to Midwicket) do not reach the boundary, restricting batsmen to  2 or 3

--Aus ahead in the game by only 55-45 in my view and not the 4 times return that bet 365 was offering on Indian win ( which I accepted) Smile

-Kohli screws up again by leaving Vihari after giving all the impressions of having him but sneaking his buddy Rohit in at the last minute furious

Rohit duly confirmed why he is not suited for test cricket with the mode of his dismissal...when he should have converted this start into a BIG 50 if not a 100

--Hats off to Pujara again.......like T3 in Eng.....he attacked and maximized runs with the lower order...after patiently grinding his first 60 odd

--I do agree with various other posters that This Aus attack is very good...they've managed to get their TOP-A attack fit and ready for first test
Lyon is a good home condition bowler as many of the commentators pointed out....uses the bounce available quite well

Ind has a good attack but has to be switched on and fielders need to take all their chances to put pressure on Aus
Interesting D1 of a promising series OK


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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 8:44 am

Very much with goose and KP_f. Australia currently ahead but a poor batting display could see that change round.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 8:44 am

Well below par, undoubtedly, with Pujara saving India from humiliation. But Australia's batting line-up, devoid of Warner and Smith, is a weak one. And, like KPfan says, it is Australia who are batting last.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 10:00 am

Yes, I thought Australia had a good first day but will need to wrap things up early tomorrow and then try and apply themselves to build a better score. The Finch and Harris opening partnership will be crucial - can't afford to lose early wickets with this less experienced lineup. Ussie will have to lead by example too... be as dogged and determined not to get out - like Smith.

Reckless batting from the Indian top order - they tried to up the ante from the start and it was risky shot selection for those early dismissals.
Pujara showed how it could be done. Play each ball and weather the storm in that 1st session... then start to open up his shots and take advantage of the tiring bowling attack. That was a gutsy and skilful performance. Very tough out there for batsmen, bowlers and fielders in 40 degree heat.

The Australian bowling was tight and on the mark and the bowling load/wicket return well spread. Lyon is a fit little terrier. He just keeps going.
The Khawaja catch was a screamer, Handscomb snared them well and the Cummins run out in the dying stages was special.

Just short of an almost perfect day's play for the Aussies.
Would be good if they could keep India under 270 or less. Any total over 300 would take the gloss off that first day for Australia.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 6:51 pm

Not entirely unexpectedly, a poor batting performance from India. Had it not been for the much underappreciated Cheteshwar Pujara, It would have been test over on day one itself.
Pathetic performance from the top order other than Pujara. Rohul is one innings away from the ax if Ravi Shastri is to believed that young Shaw is fast recovering. Vijay again failed to show his old Vijay like discipline. Kohli looked before that outstanding catch that got him, but it certainly was a poor shot. Rahane seemed to have lost it, seems his game against spin is coming down to stupid slogging! Rishabh Pant got a real beauty from Lyon, but didn't offer a sense of permanency before that. R Ashwin, in the company of Pujara showed the rest how to tough it out though he was undone by a good one just when it seemed they could still save the day for India. Shami and Ishant did a much better job than the specialist bats.
And then there was that stupid clown at 6! What a bloody embarrassment! Reminded of a similarly stupid shot against Moeen Ali in England in 2014 that for some time saved the Indian supporter of the torcher that is his presence in the test team. Captain Brat usually makes sure he would also score the runs for his friend and thus cover up the obvious selectorial blunder. But not to be this time...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 6:58 pm

Mighty fine hand from Cheteshwar Pujara! He doesn't bat like Virat's buddy in test matches and is often targeted by the team management itself for being a decent test batsman. His defense is not perfect, he's a bit too bottom-handed for a solid defensive batsman and that often gets him into trouble with the incoming balls. But the effort is always there, the skill sets are much better than some of the more fancied others. Usually a Pujara hundred is a serious affair. Today it wasn't different, it came at a desperate situation for the team. But that march through the 90s and beyond was some fun of a different kind. He topedged a 6 to start off, then smoked a couple when batting with MShami for good measure! Pujara even contemplating the option to play such a shot is well and truly remarkable!

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 7:04 pm

Winning this one from now seems a tall order. But the track is a new ball track for bowlers. Else its on the flatter side. So if the bowlers somehow manage to restrict the lead under 150, they still can push for the draw if the batsmen get their heads right to start with, if Rahul saves his career, if Vijay and Rahane find their way back to some form and if Pujara, Pant and Ashwin can chip in and if Kohli can score the runs for himself and his buddy...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by alfie on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 9:33 pm

Poor batting day for India , Pujara excepted. Didn't see a ball - worked late - but from all accounts daft strokes contributed almost as much as fine bowling and fielding...pitch presumably had something for the bowlers early but that 250 (can't imagine 10 and 11 adding much this morning) seems very short of par.
Australia should take a real grip today. But the reservation I still have is that batting lineup...Reckon if they can get a decent start they will be able to go on to something substantial ; but a couple of early wickets might put the cat among the (inexperienced) pigeons...

Incidentally I am always a little amused by the ire that Rohit's presence arouses in many Indian fans : I used to think Ian Bell copped a lot of stick when things went bad for England , but this is a whole different level Smile

I don't think he'd be in my team either though.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 1:47 am

alfie wrote:

Incidentally I am always a little amused by the ire that Rohit's presence arouses in many Indian fans  : I used to think Ian Bell copped a lot of stick when things went bad for England , but this is a whole different level  Smile

I don't think he'd be in my team either though.

Rohit's selection was not based on how he played in the last 12 months. He played only 2 test matches and failed in both and was dropped in England. Selectors think he is a good backfoot player and therefore deserve a chance ahead of the talented lot of Hanuma Vihari, Karun Nair, Mayank Agarwal. Also when shaw is in the team and Shubman Gill is knocking the door, and you are still on a person who think there is no difference between T20 and Test cricket. All these irked the India fans. We may like the talent of the present team but we don't connect to this team as we did to that of Ganguly's team.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 2:54 am

Aussies batsmen are following what Indians top 4 did. Going for a drive and falling in the trap. I don't know what made you lose your patience after playing just 19 deliveries. However India made the breakthrough. Marsh Gone for 2. Aussies 60/3.

The new man Handscomb, looks bit shaky, he is batting almost a feet deep. Khwaja is carrying his UAE form.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 3:06 am

Is it only me or other on board also think that Ishant even after playing 85 test matches doesnot impress much as a pace bowlers. IMO he will the worst pacer to have taken 250+ wickets in test matches.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 4:44 am

Handscomb stance matches that of Smith. His stepping out also looks similar. My friends from Australia here, please put some focus here on his first class batting.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 7:11 am

Well we collectively called that one didnt we! (Aside from Ashwin doing so well first innings after having his record in Aus written off)
The Australian batting is as fragile and lacking confidence as the english. The decision to pick Head over a fifth bowler is looking very smart though and India wont have much of a lead if any.


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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 7:25 am

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Is it only me or other on board also think that Ishant even after playing 85 test matches doesnot impress much as a pace bowlers. IMO he will the worst pacer to have taken 250+ wickets in test matches.

He is one of those names that we keep thinking "how is he still getting picked", even more so now Indian have two genuinely skilled seamers in Bumrah and Shami. Ishant though does have a touch more pace and a lot more height which sets him apart from other Indian bowlers. Every time he plays in England he seems to get one or two innings where he rips the batting apart, we see the same from Stuart Broad who often looks very ordinary but can produce match winning spells.
Varun Aaron was hyped up to take his place, but really struggled at international level and seems to have been banished from the selectors thoughts. Looking at cricinfo though he seems to be taking a lot of wickets in all forms domestically currently, does he still get talked about as a potential test player? Does he still have his old pace after the injuries?

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by VTR on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 8:13 am

This is well poised then, pretty much a one innings game. That Aussie batting line up does look really poor on paper! I still think Cummins and Starc are key, they can be a sort of Sam Curran between them

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by alfie on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 8:18 am

Ishant must be infuriating for Indian fans - and probably his coaches. On his day , he can be quite brilliant - Gillespie was full of praise for his efforts today...but his days just don't come often enough ; and in between he can look rather ordinary...
Makes sense to play him in Australian conditions as his height gives him the potential to do very well here ...though the stats say he generally doesn't . I do remember him working over Ponting a few years ago , when much hope was held for his future : sadly it hasn't really worked out.
He might still be a match winner here in Adelaide though. Very open game ; but India a shade in front with Australia to bat last. Need to make sure the Aussie tail doesn't wag in the morning though...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by KP_fan on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 8:53 am

--So the India bowlers bowled well....all of them, and had Aus on the mat at 120-6......relaxed and took the intensity off a bit thereafter

--pitch is turning & turn's accompanied by bounce so Ashwin will be a handful in 4th inning
In this inning Aus will finish +/-20 runs within the Indian total....making it a single inning shootout effectively......BUT Aus's target will look magnified because of the 4th inning factor
Though Ind have to come out focussed and remain tight like they were for the better part of the day

--India seamers are all "dig it in" type in the speed range of 135-144kph that is so much needed on the Aussie pitches unlike the English pitches

end of D2 India has swapped themselves into a 55-45 winning position over Aus
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 9:29 am

KP_fan wrote:--So the India bowlers bowled well....all of them, and had Aus on the mat at 120-6......relaxed and took the intensity off a bit  thereafter

--pitch is turning & turn's accompanied by bounce so Ashwin will be a handful in 4th inning
In this inning Aus will finish +/-20 runs within the Indian total....making it a single inning shootout effectively......BUT Aus's target will look magnified because of the 4th inning factor
Though Ind have to come out focussed and remain tight like they were for the better part of the day

--India seamers are all "dig it in" type in the speed range of 135-144kph that is so much needed on the Aussie pitches unlike the English pitches

end of D2 India has swapped themselves into a 55-45 winning position over Aus

Hi KP_f, yep, generally go along with that post and, in particular, your bottom line. I did say that could happen and, indeed, positions might swap again. However, for now at least, India are in the better place and, as you predictably emphasised again Smile , bowling last should pay dividends. My gut feel is that it will be India with the small first innings lead to slightly strengthen their position.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 3:13 pm

Shami was poor imo. He leaks too many boundaries. He bowls plenty of unplayable deliveries yet bowls so many pies.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by wisden on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 3:16 pm

Always been prone to bowling half volleys, but that's because he tries to pitch everything up, which is better than dragging down constantly, Shami is a wicket taker...and with Ashwin and Bumrah and Ishant all keeping it tight, Shami can afford to attack more therefore on occasion overpitching

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 5:36 pm

India's inability to prevent the tail wagging arguably cost them the series against England. If A can get close to I's total, or even get a lead, then they have a chance.
On paper, this is A's weakest batting line-up for some time. They are going to have to rely on their bowlers if they want to win the series.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Duty281 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 5:52 pm

If India are still batting at stumps on day three, this test match is sewn up for them.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 6:20 pm

Duty281 wrote:If India are still batting at stumps on day three, this test match is sewn up for them.

Yes, but what if A's tail hangs on for a good while and they make, say, 320 ? India could then be, say, 100 for five and will have practically lost. Any sort of first-innings lead should see India home, but if they trail by much on first innings they could be up against it.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 8:49 pm

sirfredperry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:If India are still batting at stumps on day three, this test match is sewn up for them.

Yes, but what if A's tail hangs on for a good while and they make, say, 320 ? India could then be, say, 100 for five and will have practically lost. Any sort of first-innings lead should see India home, but if they trail by much on first innings they could be up against it.

Australias tail isnt Englands, but as Duty said its an if scenario for India and the games far from gone for Aus at this point. It would be a bad reflection on Indias bowling if they cant take a lead from this position, but not impossible. So yes the games still open and the pressure is still on, but anyone would rather be in Indias position right now

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 8:56 pm

So going into the 3rd day, India are still alive in the test, thanks to that man Cheteshwar Pujara and the bowlers. Australia's inexperience with the bat, coupled with some pretty decent bowling from India have ensured parity for India in the game so far despite that poor first innings batting performance. But the job with the ball isn't done yet, and that has been a traditional weakspot for the Indian bowling unit. We saw that in South Africa, and even more so in England. Head is still there on a well made 61, and Starc if he gets going, can quickly wipe out that lead. As I mentioned earlier, the Australian lower order is much better than that of India's. Lyon is better than a number 10, and Hazlewood can easily bat 10 for any other test team other than England. So getting those last 3 wickets won't be easy.
The ball is still new, Indians shouldn't waste it. Shami in particular should be careful. Yes he's an attacking bowler, a wickettaker. But he should get away from bowling the subcontinent line and length all the time. He's a touch too full and on the stumps a bit more than necessary. Should bowl that in between length and an outside off line a lot more. Either too full or too short seem to be his mode...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 9:01 pm

If I have to pick one of the 2 Sharmas in this India test team, I would happily pick Ishant all day every day over the Wonderboy who is proven garbage in this format! Ishant didn't evolve into the kind of bowler that he promised to become in 2008, he's never going to be the leader of attack material. But he's a good workhorse, a pretty decent 3rd seamer. Provided Bumrah, Shami/Umesh whoever is picked are doing their jobs, Ishant can be an asset. So I have made peace with his inclusion...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 9:07 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
msp83 wrote:Australia's weakness is their batting. It is untested and inexperienced, and a batting lineup with M Marsh at 5 would lack quality. But they have also gone for a longer batting unit. They are playing at home. Australia in the last few years have produced some of the most ludicrous flat roads of pitches. Those pitches might offer some bounce and pace, but not much seam movement and the conditions usually don't favour swing. And the stupid Kukaburra is a disservice to the very game! The Indian seam bowling unit, though it is worth talking about them in terms of a unit, is not strongest in terms of bounce and pace. The Australians are more suited for the same. So eventually, it comes down to the 2 batting units.
I would be surprised if all tests produce results. And I think the Australian bowling is superior enough, and the Australian batting unit long enough to give them an advantage.  2-0 Australia.

Hi msp - good to have you around again. I went along with a lot of your posts this (UK) morning. However,  I would have thought though that we could be looking at 4 positive results from this series. As you say, there's weakness in the batting and in any case Test sides don't seem to bat time like when I were a lad. Wink I'm assuming the weather will stay fine.

Posters here generally going for a tight series result. I can understand that from looking at the makeup of the teams but Australia edge it for me with their attack. Menacing seam bowlers with Lyon enabling them to rest as needed whilst still posing a threat of his own. Also - and this could just be perception rather than fact - but teams seem to fold more than they did in the past. I would go Australia to take the series 3-1 or maybe even a clean sweep. But ... I'm not a betting man and won't be until I see a poor bookie!
Hi Guildford,
Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with the general assessment regarding the fragility of the Australian batting lineup and they yet again showed the same so far in this game. But as they go along in the series, they should feel more at ease, and going by recent standards, there should at least be a 10 day pitch on which both lineups should be able to fill their boots...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by msp83 on Fri 07 Dec 2018, 9:11 pm

And like KPF said, I expect Australia to finish 2-25 plus or minus the Indian score. So this is shaping up to be a one innings shootout. Unless of course the Indians finish what they started, the project of converting Mitchell Starc into a bowling-all-rounder from a bowler who can bat. His test best of 99 came against???

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 2:44 am

The last two from Shami gave India the 15 run lead. Even now this will a single inning game with the first inning only making the pitch bit rough. I would see more of Lyon and Ashwin game from here. The ball is turning and also has a bit of bounce and that is enough to disturb any batsman who is shy of playing spin. However it rained in the morning and that may help the Aussies pacers who are bowling at an average speed above 140.

I hope KL does not bat for Australia, for it would be his last chance to seal his place in the XI. Vijay is required to continue his Essex form here. Pujara has scored a 100 in the first innings and he may hang in there for 40-50 runs. King Kohli and his trusted warrior Rahane need to fire up from here. Regarding Sharma I have no words. Even if this man scores a 100 here he need to return to India.

In between all these discussions, Lunch has been taken some 20 minuted before time. Tim Paine doesn't looks happy. He wanted to bowl, however Let's take a bit of food in the belly.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 7:16 am

India more than 100 ahead with eight wickets left. Apparently, A haven't successfully chased more than 200 to win here for 100 years.

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 7:31 am

Someone here please explain to me the difference in the LBW decisions when a batsman has played a shot and when no shot was offered. Pretty Confused here.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 7:45 am

sirfredperry wrote:India more than 100 ahead with eight wickets left. Apparently, A haven't successfully chased more than 200 to win here for 100 years.

In 2003 India chased down 229 here. I think a score more than 280 is 70% safe here.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by KP_fan on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 7:55 am

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Someone here please explain to me the difference in the LBW decisions when a batsman has played a shot and when no shot was offered. Pretty Confused here.
If not playing a shot batsman can be given out even if point of contact is outside the line of off-stump


Last edited by KP_fan on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by alfie on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 8:14 am

Lyon takes the big wicket just before the close...

India still in a strong position : when Kohli bat like this you can see this pitch is not an easy one for the batsmen. Chasing anything over 200 on days 4/5 won't be easy. Think India need one more good partnership to put this out of reach ...Lyon will be difficult tomorrow ; but so will Ashwin. Lots of lefties to bowl at...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by alfie on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 8:22 am

I note Rahane has spurned the nightwatchman option...gutsy call. Or showing confidence ? Guess we will judge when the day ends Smile

I like Rahane...a good player to watch ; and one India need to do a job at five if they're to achieve their aim in this series. He could do with a score here. New ball just before lunch tomorrow ...actually a bit earlier I guess because they'll be starting early to make up lost time ; but India would kill to have these two still in then...

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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by KP_fan on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 8:28 am

Weekend, no pressure to leave for work by 8am...woke up early at 420am CET and got to see all of India's inning, a closer look at our batsmen, their bowlers and the pitch

--The pitch has become quicker, has plenty of bounce and a bit of nibble for the seamers and spin with consistent bounce for both spinners.
Indian top order in second inning has seemed more comfortable compared to jagging at sharp angles pitches in Eng

--and the moment Ind does not rely only on Kohli they appear better....each one of the top 4 got starts and played off a lot of deliveries avoiding a crash-in-heap situation
Vijay will rue not converting that into a 40+ score.....if Shaw is fit he may have played his last test already

pitch and quality of bowling ( on both sides) doesn't make it easy to score runs & outfield really slow.......and in that context Rahul's blitzed 44 gave India a lot of momentum.

--Kohli very conscious that if he stays around and if India don't crash in a heap, will shut the game out for aus batted with a lot of grit....India won't mind Lyon getting spin and bounce to get Kohli....as pujara silently racks up some precious runs

India 70-30 ahead...and if they bat one more session without crashing, they would have shut Aus out.
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Re: India VS Australia 2018-19

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 8:28 am

alfie wrote:Lyon takes the big wicket just before the close...

India still in a strong position : when Kohli bat like this you can see this pitch is not an easy one for the batsmen.  Chasing anything over 200 on days 4/5 won't be easy. Think India need one more good partnership to put this out of reach ...Lyon will be difficult tomorrow ; but so will Ashwin. Lots of lefties to bowl at...

Lots of lefties and a lovely big patch of rough for the right handers too

India in a very strong position - another 100 runs and they’ll be out of sight you’d think, but I imagine in Kohli’s ideal world he’ll want a lead of 350-400 by tea tomorrow so they can have a dart post tea and then get the Aussies in. Crucial Pujara/Rahane bat for a while tomorrow, if they can see most of the morning session off then you have Rohit/Pant coming in with a license to hit (albeit Pant will do that anyways!)
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