Wales RWC 2019 Thread

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Post by miaow on Mon 26 Nov 2018, 1:41 am

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.




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Post by SecretFly on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 12:43 pm

So ... were the blackmailers rogue journalists who simply threatened to go public if he didn't? Or were the blackmailer(s) a person or people who wanted money for keeping quiet? Blackmailers usually want something to buy silence.

Anyone arrested? Anyone charged? Anyone convicted?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 2:32 pm

I read blackmail this morning. Just read a tabloid newspaper knew about it and was preparing the story. Sounds as if someone has sold on the tip. The fact they're arses still stands.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 5:34 pm

Who ever it trying to blackmail Gareth Thomas, if it is true should be locked up for along time.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 6:51 pm

Just a thought, if AWJ retires after the RWC ( from international game) Who will take over the captain's arm band?

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 7:40 pm

Ken Owens

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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:04 pm

Ken Owens isn't a bad shout, given Wayne Pivac will be replacing Warren Gatland. I have it on good authority, that it will be given to Aled Davies though, in order to appease Mikey.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:10 pm

Should there need to be a change of skipper do you have an eye towards the next world cup, or just chose the best person for now even if they are unlikely to last the full four year cycle?

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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:17 pm

I would choose the best person for now.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:18 pm

Ellis Jenkins and Cory Hill were dual-captains for the tour to Argentina last summer. And they did really well. So I think there may be an eye on them as long term captaincy options. However, Jenkins is currently injured and out of the WC, and Hill is injured but selected and therefore a bit touch and go. It all depends on Pivac too. These have all been Gatland captains. Pivac will have his own ideas and favourites, so it might end up being someone he knows best from Scarlets like Ken Owens (as already mentioned), JD2 Hadleigh Parkes, etc. I'd prefer it to be a forward though!
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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:19 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I would choose the best person for now.

So would I, but there can then be hard decisions to make down the line. It can be argued that Eddie Jones got captaincy wrong with England.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:20 pm

New question. How do people feel about the inclusion of Cory Hill, bearing in mid he has not played since February and at best was going to miss the first two games? 

Certainly Beard's appendicitis has highlighted the risk taken. Was/Is Hill really that important to the side?

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:23 pm

LondonTiger wrote:New question. How do people feel about the inclusion of Cory Hill, bearing in mid he has not played since February and at best was going to miss the first two games? 

Certainly Beard's appendicitis has highlighted the risk taken. Was/Is Hill really that important to the side?


Yes, I think it is a valid risk to take because the cupboard is a bit bare beyond the 4 taken (AWJ, Beard, Hill & Ball). If you leave out Hill then you're going for someone like Bradley Davies, who is a bit past it now, or...... I don't know who else! Shingler covers lock too I suppose.
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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:27 pm

I think Hill definitely had to travel. As mentioned, the next off the rank (Davies) was poor in the warm ups. I have never been impressed by Beard really either, so I think Hill had to go. Ball will remain first choice for now, along with AWJ, but Gatland loves Hill for his leadership, so he is undoubtedly a key member of the squad still. I suspect he is still running the lineout too, even though he hasn't played.

They are actually quite positive that Hill will be fit for Australia.

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Post by Poorfour on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 1:34 pm

RiscaGame wrote:They are actually quite positive that Hill will be fit for Australia.

Having been present at more than one of Jonny Wilkinson's comeback/new injury double-whammies, I hope they don't rush him back and end up with him breaking again. 8 months is a long time out and you're at your most vulnerable in the early games back - especially with no warm up matches and being thrown into a highly competitive RWC fixture.
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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:21 pm

Agreed and from a Dragons POV, I am certainly worried about him not being fully recovered. I only mentioned it, as it was initially mentioned that he wouldn't make the Oz game.

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Post by No9 on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 5:00 pm

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, not got the time to trawl back over all the old posts...

Have you seen the support the boys are getting in Japan... 15000 queue up for 3 hours to see Wales train... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49713588)...

You have to give it to the Japanese people, they give they're all to ensure their tournaments are a success...

Diolch yn fawr Japan

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:27 am

No9 wrote:Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, not got the time to trawl back over all the old posts...

Have you seen the support the boys are getting in Japan... 15000 queue up for 3 hours to see Wales train... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49713588)...

You have to give it to the Japanese people, they give they're all to ensure their tournaments are a success...

Diolch yn fawr Japan

It’s incredible how much work the WRU has been doing in Kitakyushu and the whole Kyushu province. Inspired by the Kuwi RWC and the way locals adopted the Welsh squad and fans apparently.

Not sure how many touring fans will be in Japan, it’s a long way and a very expensive country to visit so all local Wales supporters are a massive plus.

Especially with their rendition of Calon Lân

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Post by Pie on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:57 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Just a thought, if AWJ retires after the RWC ( from international game) Who will take over the captain's arm band?

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:17 am

Pie wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Just a thought, if AWJ retires after the RWC ( from international game) Who will take over the captain's arm band?

Navidi

Good call but I have a feeling Pivac will go for a young non Scarlet like Ellis Jenkins.

It will be interesting to see how the transition happens. It looks like it is all being taken very logically with the new team out at the RWC this year and the Pivac vs Gatland first game post the hopefully very successful RWC in Japan.

Gatland has never shown a regional bias, Pivac being an ex Scarlet coach will need to be careful in that respect.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 8:41 am

maestegmafia wrote:

Gatland has never shown a regional bias, Pivac being an ex Scarlet coach will need to be careful in that respect.

Gatland had it easier as he had never developed a personal weekly relationship with an distinct group of players.  Let's not forget that these Club coaches usually get their hand at International due to the exploits of a certain group of players.  During an average week, he'd be motivating those players to believe they are best in their positions....then if he suddenly suggests many of those players never were good enough when achieving International level coach status, that in itself potentially creates its own kind of tension and Regional bad blood.

So he's gotta be careful both ways.  Gatland never had those issues when coming in.  Farrell won't have those issues with Ireland. Schmidt did.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 9:11 am

maestegmafia wrote:
No9 wrote:Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, not got the time to trawl back over all the old posts...

Have you seen the support the boys are getting in Japan... 15000 queue up for 3 hours to see Wales train... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49713588)...

You have to give it to the Japanese people, they give they're all to ensure their tournaments are a success...

Diolch yn fawr Japan

It’s incredible how much work the WRU has been doing in Kitakyushu and the whole Kyushu province. Inspired by the Kuwi RWC and the way locals adopted the Welsh squad and fans apparently.

Not sure how many touring fans will be in Japan, it’s a long way and a very expensive country to visit so all local Wales supporters are a massive plus.

Especially with their rendition of Calon Lân

Flights accommodation and match tickets for €1100 for me. Its not as expensive as you think.

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Post by Noble-Surfer on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:17 am

maestegmafia wrote:Gatland has never shown a regional bias, Pivac being an ex Scarlet coach will need to be careful in that respect.

I'm sure I remember him being accused of it on a few occasions- wasn't there a point quite early on in his Wales tenure when most of the Wales team/ squad were from the Ospreys? I think around 13 starting players were Ospreys players for one game. Fairly sure I remember hearing (obviously unfounded) accusations of bias around that time... but the fact was that the Ospreys were the best performing side in Wales at the time, and picking those players who were well used to playing with each other did reap the rewards in their performances for Wales on those occasions. By and large, Gatland's selections have been vindicated, so I think where there have been accusations of bias after a team announcement in the past, because those teams have largely done very well, people have learnt to trust Gatland's decisions for the most part.

But he has come under some (quite a lot) of criticism of favouritsm toward certain players at various points throughout his tenure. Rhys Priestland being the obvious example that springs to mind- and Priestland's confidence being hammered by fickle fans arguably led to/ exacerbated his loss of form. You could argue that had Gatland dropped Priestland for Biggar sooner, this would have 'protected' him from the armchair fans who were hurling all sorts of abuse at him, and maybe he could have come back stronger once he had regained his confidence. But there have been a number of players who have been labelled as 'Gatland's favourites' over the years- just that because he wasn't previously a regional coach, those who had strong opions that other players should be picked in place of the 'favourites' couldn't use regional bias as an argument to justify their position.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:23 am

Noble-Surfer wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Gatland has never shown a regional bias, Pivac being an ex Scarlet coach will need to be careful in that respect.

I'm sure I remember him being accused of it on a few occasions- wasn't there a point quite early on in his Wales tenure when most of the Wales team/ squad were from the Ospreys? I think around 13 starting players were Ospreys players for one game. Fairly sure I remember hearing (obviously unfounded) accusations of bias around that time... but the fact was that the Ospreys were the best performing side in Wales at the time, and picking those players who were well used to playing with each other did reap the rewards in their performances for Wales on those occasions. By and large, Gatland's selections have been vindicated, so I think where there have been accusations of bias after a team announcement in the past, because those teams have largely done very well, people have learnt to trust Gatland's decisions for the most part.

But he has come under some (quite a lot) of criticism of favouritsm toward certain players at various points throughout his tenure. Rhys Priestland being the obvious example that springs to mind- and Priestland's confidence being hammered by fickle fans arguably led to/ exacerbated his loss of form. You could argue that had Gatland dropped Priestland for Biggar sooner, this would have 'protected' him from the armchair fans who were hurling all sorts of abuse at him, and maybe he could have come back stronger once he had regained his confidence. But there have been a number of players who have been labelled as 'Gatland's favourites' over the years- just that because he wasn't previously a regional coach, those who had strong opions that other players should be picked in place of the 'favourites' couldn't use regional bias as an argument to justify their position.

He did pick most of his first selections from the Ospreys. Largely this was due, he said, to not having enough time to work on the team therefore picking guys who knew each other. He evolved the team over time.

Like all coaches Gatland has trusted those he knows the best. This always leaves a coach open to accusations of bias when they select someone they have worked with at a lower level (so coaches picking players from a former club side, or indeed Lions coaches - including Rowntree (so not slagging of the Welsh coach Wink ) - selecting their national players for the Lions). Thing is though no coach goes into a game looking to select a bad team. they want to win and develop their side. So we can question their assessment of players, but it is silly to allege bias. It has happened to Gats (more for the Lions), it has happened to Jones, it has happened to Schmidt.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:31 am

Noble-Surfer wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Gatland has never shown a regional bias, Pivac being an ex Scarlet coach will need to be careful in that respect.

I'm sure I remember him being accused of it on a few occasions- wasn't there a point quite early on in his Wales tenure when most of the Wales team/ squad were from the Ospreys? I think around 13 starting players were Ospreys players for one game. Fairly sure I remember hearing (obviously unfounded) accusations of bias around that time... but the fact was that the Ospreys were the best performing side in Wales at the time, and picking those players who were well used to playing with each other did reap the rewards in their performances for Wales on those occasions. By and large, Gatland's selections have been vindicated, so I think where there have been accusations of bias after a team announcement in the past, because those teams have largely done very well, people have learnt to trust Gatland's decisions for the most part.

This is it. He's said a few times - more recently than 2008 when the Ospreys had 13 players in the starting XV - that players in winning teams perform better because they're used to winning, or something along those lines, which I could understand even if it didn't seem quite fair; if player A from a poor side (let's call them the Bragons) is objectively a better player than player B from a more successful side, then on merit player A should be getting the call - he shouldn't be punished for playing for a less successful side. But he hasn't said it for a while now, which might be because he's seen that Cory Hill and Elliot Dee, for example, don't seem to be adversely affected by playing for a regional side that loses more games than it wins. (That's not to say they wouldn't perform even better if the Bragons Dragons got their act together.)

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 11:14 am

I did think for a while that certain Bragons laughing players were overlooked unfairly, but then ultimately if I was to look at people I probably wanted to get caps from the Bragons, they probably weren't actually worthy (on the whole).

Ultimately, the Bragons get more players now as they're in a more professional environment (with the development of Ystrad and the gym etc) and so the step up to Wales training isn't so big.

But Gatland did stick with what he knew (Cuthbert etc), up until after last Lions tour really. I would expect Pivac to do the same, as he would trust more Scarlets to know his system already.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 11:21 am

It's difficult to guess how Pivac is going to approach the head coach role with Wales. I believe it's written in his contract that it would be reassessed in 2 years, so the pressure is on already. I don't necessarily think Owens is the best captain or hooker either, plus the Scarlets approach didn't work in the final year of his tenure.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 11:26 am

I wouldn't have a problem with Pivac going with Scarlets players in tight calls early on.

Pivac really does have an unenviable task, doesn't he? I hope people bear in mind that he wasn't an overnight success at the Scarlets, and cut him a bit of slack if we don't have stellar performances from the off.

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Post by Noble-Surfer on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 11:34 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Noble-Surfer wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Gatland has never shown a regional bias, Pivac being an ex Scarlet coach will need to be careful in that respect.

I'm sure I remember him being accused of it on a few occasions- wasn't there a point quite early on in his Wales tenure when most of the Wales team/ squad were from the Ospreys? I think around 13 starting players were Ospreys players for one game. Fairly sure I remember hearing (obviously unfounded) accusations of bias around that time... but the fact was that the Ospreys were the best performing side in Wales at the time, and picking those players who were well used to playing with each other did reap the rewards in their performances for Wales on those occasions. By and large, Gatland's selections have been vindicated, so I think where there have been accusations of bias after a team announcement in the past, because those teams have largely done very well, people have learnt to trust Gatland's decisions for the most part.

This is it. He's said a few times - more recently than 2008 when the Ospreys had 13 players in the starting XV - that players in winning teams perform better because they're used to winning, or something along those lines, which I could understand even if it didn't seem quite fair; if player A from a poor side (let's call them the Bragons) is objectively a better player than player B from a more successful side, then on merit player A should be getting the call - he shouldn't be punished for playing for a less successful side. But he hasn't said it for a while now, which might be because he's seen that Cory Hill and Elliot Dee, for example, don't seem to be adversely affected by playing for a regional side that loses more games than it wins. (That's not to say they wouldn't perform even better if the Bragons Dragons got their act together.)

Absolutely. Psychology is a massive part of sport/ any competition, and there's no doubt that winning has a positive effect on players. Losing can have differing effects on players often depending on their mentality/ personality- for some, it can cause them to doubt their ability/ a lack of confidence, for others it can push them on to work harder/ greater determination.

I think one of the problems with perceived bias, is that it can be very much like beauty- in the eye of the beholder! Wink

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 12:13 pm

Yeah Pivac is a brave man following Gatland. To be fair, there were times that people wanted Gatland out too (myself included), so it shows how fickle people can be.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:29 pm

Pretty much the entire new coaching team are former scarlets. I don’t think that will have a massive impact on selection post Japan.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:16 pm

Wales' team announced at 4am on Saturday. I suspect I won't be awake for that.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:28 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Wales' team announced at 4am on Saturday. I suspect I won't be awake for that.

Great cheers, I was just looking for that.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:06 pm

Thanks for the memories, Rob Howley....

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:16 pm

Is it true Howley has been sacked and sent home from Japan for betting offenses? What are the odds on that!!

I heard he was being lined up by Italy to take over from O'Shea too.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:21 pm

At least it's not england in the press for once.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:22 pm

Crazy about Howley. Shame that Stephen Jones (who is taking his place now) couldn't have been involved sooner. We don't have enough time before the WC now, to undo Howley's "good work".

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:26 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49733089

Bit of a surprise but sure to make a lot of Wales fans happy. Good luck to Wellies it will be interesting to see how he does.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:27 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Wales' team announced at 4am on Saturday. I suspect I won't be awake for that.

Great cheers, I was just looking for that.

That's what Chris Kirwan of the South Wales Argus said anyway, in his article about Wainwright potentially starting over Moriarty this weekend (here).

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Post by Pie on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:37 pm

Team for Georgia

Smith
Owens
Francis
AWJ
Ball
Wainwright
Davies
Moriarty
Tomos
Patchell
Half
Parkes
Watkin
Adams
Amos

Carre
Dee
Lewis
Shingler
Tipuric
Gareth
Bigs
North

Some players I want no where near this game like Liam, AWJ, Owens and North, Navidi and ideally not Tipuric but needs must and id unload the bench on 50 and take AWJ and entire front row off, give Big and Davies the last 25 so they are warm for Aus.

If only we had Ellis, Faletau and Webb then id think we were genuine contenders but a couple injuries and we'll be struggling again


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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:39 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Wales' team announced at 4am on Saturday. I suspect I won't be awake for that.

Great cheers, I was just looking for that.

That's what Chris Kirwan of the South Wales Argus said anyway, in his article about Wainwright potentially starting over Moriarty this weekend (here).

Be interesting to see where he starts in the backrow..! I am guessing at blindside flanker but if he is preferred to Moriarty could he be usurping his club colleague as a number 8?

He is a hell of a talent and I could see him being very effective wherever he is selected.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:39 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Is it true Howley has been sacked and sent home from Japan for betting offenses? What are the odds on that!!

I heard he was being lined up by Italy to take over from O'Shea too.

Ah come on now Collapse, thats a shocking pun.

I'd put money on someone else making an equally bad joke before the end of the day!
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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:40 pm

Pie wrote:Team for Georgia

Smith
Owens
Francis
AWJ
Ball
Wainwright
Davies
Moriarty
Tomos
Patchell
Half
Parkes
Watkin
Adams
Amos

Carre
Dee
Lewis
Shingler
Tipuric
Aled
Bigs
North

Is that insider knowledge Pie or just your suggestion?

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:41 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Is it true Howley has been sacked and sent home from Japan for betting offenses? What are the odds on that!!

I heard he was being lined up by Italy to take over from O'Shea too.

Ah come on now Collapse, thats a shocking pun.

I'd put money on someone else making an equally bad joke before the end of the day!

I’ll give you 15:1 on that

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:42 pm

I used to like that show.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:44 pm

WRU Website wrote:

The Welsh Rugby Union can confirm that Rob Howley has returned to Wales to assist with an investigation in relation to a potential breach of World Rugby regulation 6, specifically betting on rugby union.

The decision was taken to act immediately in light of recent information passed to the WRU.

No further details can be provided at this stage as this would prejudice the investigation. If required an independent panel will be appointed to hear the case.

Howley has co-operated fully with our initial discussions and we would ask that the media appreciate this is a difficult and personal matter for Rob and that his privacy is respected before an outcome is reached.

Warren Gatland has consulted with senior players and Stephen Jones will be arriving in Japan imminently to link up with the squad as attack coach.​


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Post by Pie on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:47 pm

wtaf

if this is true then he has done us all a favor with Jones coming out Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo

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Post by The Oracle on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:49 pm

Sh*t the bed! Howley! WTAF! Was he betting on himself gettin/not getting the Italy job?!

There will be a few dubbed over YouTube videos in the coming weeks I’m sure. Like this one (WARNING, strong language from the start!):

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:51 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I used to like that show.

drumroll
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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:53 pm

Unfortunately reports that Aled Davies was also involved and that Rhys Webb is travelling with Wellies to Japan are merely vicious rumours.


Last edited by maestegmafia on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Pie on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:53 pm

Seriously if it is proven he is finished and good riddance

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