6 Nations - IRELAND v ENGLAND 2nd Feb 2019

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 26 Nov 2018, 11:15 am

First topic message reminder :

6 Nations

IRELAND v ENGLAND

Saturday 02 February 2019 16:45 GMT

Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Maybe a little early but I for one can not wait for this fixture. 2nd vs 4th.

The 6 Nations is officially the BEST rugby competition........................In the World.

England starting XV (485 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

Finishers (206 caps)

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).


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Post by Taylorman on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 7:41 pm

Now heres one of the smarter ones.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12181078


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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 8:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Do nz announce when they're not trying or does it just come out as a kind of high pitched whinge afterwards?

Not trying
Hanson told them to lose
pitch too dry
too much rain
Retallick missing
Retallick starting but missing all the same
Too many selfies
Dodgy waitress
The refs were too French

There is a deep catalogue to dip into. Should come in use as NZ get worse before they improve.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 8:09 pm

And what was Irelands reasons for plummeting poorly last world cup...’bejesus, didnt you see our injuries’!

And last oz loss...’ schmidt was experimenting’...

You sound like a trump supporter, accusing others of your exact inadequacies. Laugh

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 8:22 pm

Main complaint of Main Nations:

ABs - stomach viruses
Ireland - Barnes
Wales - Refs (but not Barnes)
England - too many good players to be able to choose the best ones continuously
France - maybe we will, maybe we won't - dice throw
SA - racial tensions/ quotas
Scotland - Only two Professional club teams
Australia - Game dying in general
Argentina - air miles in every direction
Italy - well, we ain't Georgia.
Georgia - Italy.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 8:22 pm

Taylorman wrote:And what was Irelands reasons for plummeting poorly last world cup...’bejesus, didnt you see our injuries’!

And last oz loss...’ schmidt was experimenting’...

You sound like a trump supporter, accusing others of your exact inadequacies. Laugh

January.........

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Post by Pie on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 8:46 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:Well said Sharkey. What you'll see is Ireland consolidate their position next year while NZ posters will start banging on about rankings and the fact that they've been No 1 for so long they really must still be No 1 until Ireland have been no 1 for as long as they have.

And while I think England are on of the few teams could sneak a win v Ireland if everything clicked in to place and Billy V were playing, I think first game in Dublin is too soon. If Wales win their opener I think the decider will be last game in Cardiff.

Umm no, that would be petty. England usually start strong in the 6N before losing their weary way and with Jones want to hog the limelight again will target Dublin like no other match until Japan. You could be right about it being too early and whether the Wellington boys play, but Ireland will become another victim of the false confidence youve shown here Laugh  seen that many times. ‘But what happened, we beat the All Blacks, I mean, how....gosh....I thought...wow...didnt see that coming...’ Laugh

I think Eddies going to have more of a say next year, his side were impressive.

ABs will just do what theyve done for the last 8 years. Pick the right matches to win for  the year, and bar one Lions test, have got it right just about every time.

You think England were impressive?Laugh Laugh

You're in your 50s? you come across like a teenager.


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Post by Taylorman on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 9:30 pm

Pie wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:Well said Sharkey. What you'll see is Ireland consolidate their position next year while NZ posters will start banging on about rankings and the fact that they've been No 1 for so long they really must still be No 1 until Ireland have been no 1 for as long as they have.

And while I think England are on of the few teams could sneak a win v Ireland if everything clicked in to place and Billy V were playing, I think first game in Dublin is too soon. If Wales win their opener I think the decider will be last game in Cardiff.

Umm no, that would be petty. England usually start strong in the 6N before losing their weary way and with Jones want to hog the limelight again will target Dublin like no other match until Japan. You could be right about it being too early and whether the Wellington boys play, but Ireland will become another victim of the false confidence youve shown here Laugh  seen that many times. ‘But what happened, we beat the All Blacks, I mean, how....gosh....I thought...wow...didnt see that coming...’ Laugh

I think Eddies going to have more of a say next year, his side were impressive.

ABs will just do what theyve done for the last 8 years. Pick the right matches to win for  the year, and bar one Lions test, have got it right just about every time.

You think England were impressive?Laugh Laugh

You're in your 50s? you come across like a teenager.


Cool, thanks bro. thumbsup

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 9:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:Main complaint of Main Nations:

ABs - stomach viruses
Ireland - Barnes
Wales - Refs (but not Barnes)
England - too many good players to be able to choose the best ones continuously
France - maybe we will, maybe we won't - dice throw
SA - racial tensions/ quotas
Scotland - Only two Professional club teams
Australia - Game dying in general
Argentina - air miles in every direction
Italy - well, we ain't Georgia.
Georgia - Italy.

Ref’s is the main complaint of every nation though, unless I’m missing something? I mean when Wales win we rarely get congratulated and mostly have to put up with ref complaints. You could change ref’s to kiwi ref’s and that would be more accurate. Before it was just Joubert but he’s retired. Special mention to French ref’s who are also useless.

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 10:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Taylorman wrote:And what was Irelands reasons for plummeting poorly last world cup...’bejesus, didnt you see our injuries’!

And last oz loss...’ schmidt was experimenting’...

You sound like a trump supporter, accusing others of your exact inadequacies. Laugh

January.........

Sick and tired you bin hanging on me
You make me sad with your eyes and telling me lies
don't go, don't go...

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 10:20 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:Well said Sharkey. What you'll see is Ireland consolidate their position next year while NZ posters will start banging on about rankings and the fact that they've been No 1 for so long they really must still be No 1 until Ireland have been no 1 for as long as they have.

And while I think England are on of the few teams could sneak a win v Ireland if everything clicked in to place and Billy V were playing, I think first game in Dublin is too soon. If Wales win their opener I think the decider will be last game in Cardiff.

Umm no, that would be petty. England usually start strong in the 6N before losing their weary way and with Jones want to hog the limelight again will target Dublin like no other match until Japan. You could be right about it being too early and whether the Wellington boys play, but Ireland will become another victim of the false confidence youve shown here Laugh  seen that many times. ‘But what happened, we beat the All Blacks, I mean, how....gosh....I thought...wow...didnt see that coming...’ Laugh

I think Eddies going to have more of a say next year, his side were impressive.

ABs will just do what theyve done for the last 8 years. Pick the right matches to win for  the year, and bar one Lions test, have got it right just about every time.

You think England were impressive?Laugh Laugh

You're in your 50s? you come across like a teenager.


Cool, thanks bro. thumbsup

Feck ya, you ole f@rt, they never say that to me.

Probably they're just trying to be nice to ya....
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 11:17 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

January.........

Sick and tired you bin hanging on me
You make me sad with your eyes and telling me lies
don't go, don't go...


Something in the air. How prophetic. Such an appropriate song for January... by Pilot. Most intriguing.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 11:48 pm

Better being prophetic thats for sure

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 4:22 pm

Sadly Underhill limps off which could be a huge blow.been terrific so far this season.

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 1:52 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sadly Underhill limps off which could be a huge blow.been terrific so far this season.

True if he misses the 6 N. He will be the main reason why England will beat Ireland. He’s superb.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 8:11 am

He's developing into a very good player. Really seems to have improved his carrying and jackling immensely over the last 6 to 12 months. Him and vunipola in a back row is pretty tasty.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 10:45 am

Mike Brown for England?

There's an article in the Telegraph talking him up today. As we are officially 2 days into the World Cup year, any considerations of his age become irrelevant if he is playing well enough.

Question for the Irish fans on this thread, who would you least like to see in the 15 shirt when England arrive in Dublin? Brown or Daly?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:03 am

They are fairly different players. I think they are both good. Brown set up a nice try for England v Ireland last year with a good offload and tends to play very well v Ireland whereas Daly I think is probably overall a better player. As such it probably wouldnt make much difference. Both good.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:18 am

Same ruin headache coming up for Jones there. He's always wanted Daly in his side somewhere but he's been consistently struggling under the high ball. I don't where Watson is with his recovery or how serious Cokanasiga s injury is but they may even push Daly to 13.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:21 am

JJ and Watson are both apparently going to miss the 6N

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Post by Pot Hale on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:36 am

BamBam wrote:JJ and Watson are both apparently going to miss the 6N

That is a shame for both of them. Like both players, particularly Watson.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:42 am

Yeah they are both good players but don't think it will make that much difference if Nowell, May, Daly and Brown are all in the squad. Id imagine the centre cover for Joseph is good too.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:48 am

Think both would have a strong argument to be in the first choice team if fit though. Watson brings more high ball presence than Daly but is more of an attacking threat than Brown, so would be my first choice there - he also has the benefit of playing at 15 regularly for his club unlike Daly

JJ brings that outside break and real top quality defensive work. Not sure how he'd fit in a combination with Farrell and Slade, but on top form he's a joy to watch

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:55 am

Watson would definitely start. Not sure on Joseph if tuilagi is fit.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 12:36 pm

Looks as if initial thoughts are that Underhill is out for 6 weeks.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 1:15 pm

Is Billy V fit?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 1:38 pm

Think I heard on commentary he's due back imminently.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 1:52 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think I heard on commentary he's due back imminently.

For me he is danger man for England. Any time lately England have won v Ireland he has played and played well.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 2:54 pm

I heard JJ was moving well at the open training session in Bath last week.

Bath need him more than England to be honest so I hope he isn't rushed back. EJ knows what he can do just needs to show it for Bath.

Disappointed about Underhill, massive weapon for England.
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Post by robbo277 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 3:28 pm

According to the article on the BBC:

Underhill has strained ankle ligaments. He is still to see a specialist, but the usual recovery time is 6 weeks (would put him in contention for game 2, more likely game 3). Would be a big loss for us, but we could go in with two of Wilson, Shields and Robshaw on the flanks, or Tom Curry filling in.

The BBC article also mentioned Watson and Joseph were both due back "early 2019" (quote marks used in BBC article), but weren't more specific than that. Certainly didn't mention any further setbacks.

Shirts 10-15, 22 and 23 without Watson and Joseph will probably contain 8 of 9 names (Farrell, Ford, Te'o, Tuilagi, Slade, Daly, May, Ashton, Brown). You'd imagine either Brown won't be there and we'll use Slade as back 3 cover, or one of the centres would miss out with Daly covering centre. So we're pretty well stocked at the moment at least. However if Joseph and Watson are Eddie's first choices for the World Cup, then it would be good to see them working in combinations now.

It may be that they are fit but not match fit by the start of the tournament, and may come in for the later rounds.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 3:36 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:They are fairly different players. I think they are both good. Brown set up a nice try for England v Ireland last year with a good offload and tends to play very well v Ireland whereas Daly I think is probably overall a better player. As such it probably wouldnt make much difference. Both good.

Interesting. I think England fans (myself included) turned on Brown slightly a bit too easily because of what he couldn't do, and maybe didn't fully appreciate what he could do that others can't. This has been brought to a head by Daly struggling.

Part of me would say that Brown would be a better option against Ireland. It's perhaps worth noting that we've lost to Ireland 3 times in the past 4 years, but on 2 of those occasions Brown didn't start and his replacement received poor reviews.

It may be that away from home and with Ireland's precise kicking game, Brown is a better option for this fixture. But then the question would be what is more important, this fixture and indeed this Championship, or the World Cup around the corner? If we think Daly has the all round game to threaten sides, would testing him out in Dublin tell you a lot more about him than you could learn about Mike Brown?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 3:36 pm

The whole England team seems to revolve around Farrell now anyway so do their chances rest on him more than anyone else at this stage? In fairness England did in the past seem to lack leaders and if nothing else he does seem to be a fairly strong leader.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 3:41 pm

For me it's questions on which locks are fit what are back row is and how well our full back plays.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 3:44 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:They are fairly different players. I think they are both good. Brown set up a nice try for England v Ireland last year with a good offload and tends to play very well v Ireland whereas Daly I think is probably overall a better player. As such it probably wouldnt make much difference. Both good.

Interesting. I think England fans (myself included) turned on Brown slightly a bit too easily because of what he couldn't do, and maybe didn't fully appreciate what he could do that others can't. This has been brought to a head by Daly struggling.

Part of me would say that Brown would be a better option against Ireland. It's perhaps worth noting that we've lost to Ireland 3 times in the past 4 years, but on 2 of those occasions Brown didn't start and his replacement received poor reviews.

It may be that away from home and with Ireland's precise kicking game, Brown is a better option for this fixture. But then the question would be what is more important, this fixture and indeed this Championship, or the World Cup around the corner? If we think Daly has the all round game to threaten sides, would testing him out in Dublin tell you a lot more about him than you could learn about Mike Brown?

Yep, plus if you look at England's wins v Ireland Brown has played quite well. He scored a try in the last win and set up a good try in the last loss.





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Post by BamBam on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 3:54 pm

Against Ireland in particular, the back 5 of the pack is just so important, we simply must match them in that area.

The things that worry me most are POM on our line out ball, Leavy on the floor and the gain line battle - England have a habit of starting slowly against Ireland, and I really wouldn't want to be chasing the game against this Ireland side if they get their tails up

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 4:15 pm

BamBam wrote:Against Ireland in particular, the back 5 of the pack is just so important, we simply must match them in that area.

The things that worry me most are POM on our line out ball, Leavy on the floor and the gain line battle - England have a habit of starting slowly against Ireland, and I really wouldn't want to be chasing the game against this Ireland side if they get their tails up

Such a shame in those two areas if Underhill is injured. I'd love to see Tom Curry and Underhill paired together so an England back row can properly target the breakdown and tackle.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 4:18 pm

Itoje is decent at the breakdown too. The think with Ireland is nearly all the pack will go for turnovers if you let them.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 4:21 pm

I hope it means curry is straight back in at 7. D9nt want a 6 pushed there with lawes and vunipola or we'll be butchered.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 8:45 pm

Tom Curry has the most turnovers in the Premiership this season, so if Underhill is out Curry could come in and we'd have a threat at the breakdown, but we'd perhaps lose some of the hostility in defence and clear out. As Collapse notes, Itoje is also good in this area, and is high on the list.

I'm not sure Underhill and Curry is how I'd go if everyone was fit, I think we're a bit light in the line-out and carrying stakes. It could potentially work with Vunipola, but most combinations would work with Vunipola.

I think having an intelligent, hard-working 6 who is going to churn through a lot of the work and allow our 7 more of a free role would allow whomever we pick out of Underhill and Curry to shine a bit more. If we pick both of them, then you'd probably be asking Underhill to get through more work and possibly wouldn't get the same impact out of him. Is Underhill a better workhorse than Robshaw or Wilson? I'm not sure.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 1:44 pm

Are none of the English fans aware of Ollie Robinson at Cardiff Blues? Looks a better prospect than Underhill, better player than his farther too.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 2:20 pm

Oh maes, you really are trying to make the most of your 2 month stint before you lose your wifi password again aren't you

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 3:02 pm

Olly Robinson has been mentioned a couple of times. Decent player unavailable to England and would be down the pecking order were he to return anyway.
No where near Underhill as a player and definitely not as a prospect being 5 years older.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 5:25 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Are none of the English fans aware of Ollie Robinson at Cardiff Blues? Looks a better prospect than Underhill, better player than his farther too.

Only under the plays in Wales therefore better than plays in England rule. Anyway I thought you guys loved Underhill until he decided to stay English.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 5:36 pm

lostinwales wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Are none of the English fans aware of Ollie Robinson at Cardiff Blues? Looks a better prospect than Underhill, better player than his farther too.

Only under the plays in Wales therefore better than plays in England rule. Anyway I thought you guys loved Underhill until he decided to stay English.

I think any Ospreys fan would rate Underhill highly, he a great few seasons with us, though I think we would all agree he was a bit one dimensional. To be fair though we were comparing him to Tipuric.

Although Robinson is a few years older he has been in great form at the blues for two seasons and as far as I understand should he sign for an English side at the end of the season he is elidgable to play internationally

Considering the lack of open sides in contention for England over the last five or so years I can understand why Underhill is getting such praise, just saying Robinson is another great option.


Last edited by maestegmafia on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BamBam on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 5:43 pm

If he does move to England, I'm sure he'll be in the pecking order at the flanker position. Think it would look something like

Underhill
Wilson
T Curry
Shields
Robshaw
Lawes
Itoje
Mercer
Simmonds
Armand









A few others







Robinson

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 6:45 pm

Underhill was a bit of a tackling machine when he first came through. Massive strides in the last year. Curry still the better long term option probably.

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Post by Yoda on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 9:15 pm

Underhill is better than curry imo. Will be a very good player for England when fit. After many years of not having decent sevens we are now seeing a few produced. Clifford back for quins could be interesting as is he a six or seven. Willis at wasps when back playing is another to watch. Just need an up and coming 12 to put his hand up and we could be there or there abouts.

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Post by lostinwales on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 12:53 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Are none of the English fans aware of Ollie Robinson at Cardiff Blues? Looks a better prospect than Underhill, better player than his farther too.

Only under the plays in Wales therefore better than plays in England rule. Anyway I thought you guys loved Underhill until he decided to stay English.

I think any Ospreys fan would rate Underhill highly, he a great few seasons with us, though I think we would all agree he was a bit one dimensional. To be fair though we were comparing him to Tipuric.

Although Robinson is a few years older he has been in great form at the blues for two seasons and as far as I understand should he sign for an English side at the end of the season he is elidgable to play internationally

Considering the lack of open sides in contention for England over the last five or so years I can understand why  Underhill is getting such praise, just saying Robinson is another great option.

As has been mentioned it is an area which has improved a great deal over the last couple of years. Curry and Underhill are both very young (20 and 22) and developing fast. Underhill in particular is looking every inch the international player now, although still a little injury prone. There are not many more out and out 7's but far too many, mostly very good, 6.5's (when they are fit). Another option is always good but Robinson will find it hard to get noticed.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 3:53 pm

Has anyone heard how Underhill is after sustaining the ankle ligament damage against Tigers?

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Post by Poorfour on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 6:25 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Has anyone heard how Underhill is after sustaining the ankle ligament damage against Tigers?

Seeing a specialist, but typical recovery time is apparently 6 weeks, so he will be pushing it to be fit for the 6N. Robshaw is also unlikely to be back playing much before the 6N, though has a good record for not needing much time to get up to speed. Not sure what the word is on Curry.

On the more positive side, Clifford looks to be over his injury woes and can play 6, 7 or 8, which gives Eddie at least one experienced option. (Dombrandt has been getting the plaudits recently for Quins, but I think that’s because Clifford and Chisholm have been doing a lot of the hard graft to leave him free to charge around the pitch. It will be exciting to see what Dombrandt can become next season with a full pro pre-season inside of him. If Quins can work a transformation similar to what Sarries have done to Will Skelton, he’ll be one to watch for 2023, but he’s not there yet).

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 6:33 pm

Currys back. I believe he starts with his brother on the bench tonight.

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