6 Nations - IRELAND v ENGLAND 2nd Feb 2019

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 26 Nov 2018, 11:15 am

First topic message reminder :

6 Nations

IRELAND v ENGLAND

Saturday 02 February 2019 16:45 GMT

Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Maybe a little early but I for one can not wait for this fixture. 2nd vs 4th.

The 6 Nations is officially the BEST rugby competition........................In the World.

England starting XV (485 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

Finishers (206 caps)

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).


Last edited by TightHEAD on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:58 am

Jeepers that's a bad break. I tore my achilles once. Jesus it was sore and takes forever to heal.

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Post by munkian on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 11:59 am

SecretFly wrote:
munkian wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
munkian wrote:For me, the  result of this game hinges on the reffing of the breakdown.

If Ireland are penalised for diving over and taking players out beyond the ruck then the green tide will be reduced to a trickle.


But that's actually clockwork breakdown in practice.  Another team wants to beat us at it, they'll have to place themselves under the eye of a ref too playing breakdown with the same 'fight'.  

You mean, they'll have to cheat too ? Very Happy

Well now, I'll look very closely at the French/Welsh game and get back to you on that one, munk Wink

There won't be any rucking - the French lumps will take 5 mins to get from breakdown to breakdown
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Post by Fluxy on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:04 pm

Just imagine if injuries went against us, we could end up with a back row of 6. Lawes, 7. Hughes, 8. Billy  Shocked

Maybe Eddie wasn't far off when mentioning Nowell as a flanker  Rolling Eyes

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:12 pm

I'm pleased Jones has resisted the temptation to play a lock at six. I don't think Billy Vunipola is quite all there yet, so Wilson and Curry ought to be a better balance. It does seem as if Jones regards Kruis as a more solid set piece lock to pair with Itoje. If he shows his 2016 form, then we might be able to hold our own up front.


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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:13 pm

Fluxy wrote:Just imagine if injuries went against us, we could end up with a back row of 6. Lawes, 7. Hughes, 8. Billy  Shocked

Maybe Eddie wasn't far off when mentioning Nowell as a flanker  Rolling Eyes

I have a vague recollection of Itoje once finishing a test at 7

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:16 pm

Enjoying reading 7.5's forecast that Wilson would not play at 6.....

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:16 pm

Cyril wrote:If Henshaw really is at full back I’ll be very, very happy as an England fan.

Henshaw is probably a better defender that Kearney, Kearney is an absolute master at covering kicks.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:18 pm

Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:19 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Enjoying reading 7.5's forecast that Wilson would not play at 6.....

That was not repeated after Shields withdrew with injury I think. Have to say I too felt Eddie would pick Shields over Wilson (even if I would not) and was worried he may start Lawes at 6.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:19 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:We don't would be my reply. Jones is looking for a 6 who's above average in the air. Shields lawes possibly v outside chance Clifford. Don't see wilson as that player.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hmm. Would mean dropping a better player though. In all seriousness anyone picking him ignored him playing at 7. And even his most ardent fan would acknowledge most of the pack would have been ignored for play of the ai s as they didn't play as much.
I'm just trying.to prepare you guys for when he doesn't make the squad.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've felt better. Hate having 2 months before being right.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bangs head against wall. It's not going to be Wilson!

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just a reminder Wilson hasn't been playing in the shirt.

But I believe he did finish the game playing there after Hughes came on, so technically the incumbent.

Sorry 7.5....it had to be done! Lol

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:20 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

Hopefully that will not be the plan.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:21 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:21 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Enjoying reading 7.5's forecast that Wilson would not play at 6.....

That was not repeated after Shields withdrew with injury I think. Have to say I too felt Eddie would pick Shields over Wilson (even if I would not) and was worried he may start Lawes at 6.

He did have Wilson down as 4th choice 6 and likely not to make the squad. I'll take it as a moral victory!

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Post by rodders on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:22 pm

Very strong English side on paper....we might actually have a game on our hands here.... Very Happy
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Post by Poorfour on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:22 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Fluxy wrote:Just imagine if injuries went against us, we could end up with a back row of 6. Lawes, 7. Hughes, 8. Billy  Shocked

Maybe Eddie wasn't far off when mentioning Nowell as a flanker  Rolling Eyes

I have a vague recollection of Itoje once finishing a test at 7

I'll see your Itoje and raise you Peter Richards. Can you remember when?

More seriously, that's a very bold selection and a huge vote of confidence in both Daly and Tuilagi. I'd expect to see Tuilagi and Slade swapping positions a bit, Greenwood and Tindall style, and I would not be at all surprised if Nowell dropped back to field the high balls.

The key questions are:
- Will Tuilagi hold up?
- Can Daly catch?
- Can Curry really mix it at this level?
- Will the England bench bring enough additional firepower to swing a close game?

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:23 pm

rodders wrote:Very strong English side on paper....we might actually have a game on our hands here.... Very Happy


Thank God we're playing it on pretend grass!

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:24 pm

rodders wrote:Very strong English side on paper....we might actually have a game on our hands here.... Very Happy

I don’t think we have seen this Ireland team play against a big bulldozer team before. It will be interesting to see how they go.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:24 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

Alternatively you have Billy making holes and Manu exploiting them. I live in hope...

What I would expect is a lot of use of Manu as a decoy runner, and a lot of switching around between Slade and Manu, with Nowell coming in looking for work too.

If we can get our hands on the ball and keep hold of it we will make life tough for Ireland, which makes Billy's role very important. Just hope he and Hughes are both in good nick for once.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:25 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

I think if we want to get the best out of Manu we need to play Ford and Farrell as second distributor or Te'o.

Farrell stands deeper than Ford so Tuilagi won't be able to take pop passes on the gainline running at weak shoulders. Unless he's going to run off Youngs or a forward more?

If we have Farrell, Te'o, Tuilagi in the midfielder then Te'o can crash and Tuilagi can pop up on his shoulder.

"I just felt for this game the best option was to play Owen Farrell at 10 and Manu as a like-for-like replacement for Ben Te'o." - Eddie Jones

It sounds like he would have started Te'o and Slade and had Tuilagi on the bench as we did against Australia. Bringing Tuilagi in for Te'o is therefore best for the team, but not for Tuilagi. It's a role he can play, but not his best role. And yes, Leicester fans will wince every time he takes it into contact.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:27 pm

Poorfour wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Fluxy wrote:Just imagine if injuries went against us, we could end up with a back row of 6. Lawes, 7. Hughes, 8. Billy  Shocked

Maybe Eddie wasn't far off when mentioning Nowell as a flanker  Rolling Eyes

I have a vague recollection of Itoje once finishing a test at 7

I'll see your Itoje and raise you Peter Richards. Can you remember when?

More seriously, that's a very bold selection and a huge vote of confidence in both Daly and Tuilagi. I'd expect to see Tuilagi and Slade swapping positions a bit, Greenwood and Tindall style, and I would not be at all surprised if Nowell dropped back to field the high balls.

The key questions are:
- Will Tuilagi hold up?
- Can Daly catch?
- Can Curry really mix it at this level?
- Will the England bench bring enough additional firepower to swing a close game?

For all the talk of Daly's catching ability it is worth remembering what he can bring. Seriously quick and elusive runner with a huge boot. We know how good the Irish kick chase is but if they get it wrong he could cause some serious damage.

Funny though - if the stories are correct - that both teams will play with a converted centre at 15.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:30 pm

Don't worry Sgt. It's taken shields to be out injured for Wilson to come in.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:30 pm

Everything crossed that Daly can own the high ball and Curry doesn't have to go off

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:31 pm

lostinwales wrote: We know how good the Irish kick chase is but if they get it wrong he could cause some serious damage.


But there you go. We're nowhere close to being perfect in that kick-chase label that gets thrown our way. So yes, dicey part of the Ireland game if it doesn't click against some elusive England players only waiting to collect and GO.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:31 pm

Daly at FB?????

I'm sorry Eddie but that is a terrible plan against Ireland. Sinckler jumps higher.
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Post by robbo277 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:33 pm

Fluxy wrote:Just imagine if injuries went against us, we could end up with a back row of 6. Lawes, 7. Hughes, 8. Billy  Shocked

Maybe Eddie wasn't far off when mentioning Nowell as a flanker  Rolling Eyes

That would quite specifically require injuries to Wilson and Curry. I don't think you can cover that level of detail on the bench. You should always be able to cover any one injury comfortably (e.g. Wilson or Curry and you could bring one of Lawes/Hughes on to have for example Hughes, Wilson, Vunipola). But two specific injuries and you should only have a passable plan, which the above is.

Remember 2008 (and if you've forgotten it I'm sorry) when we had Ben Kay in the back row? We've also ended an Eddie Jones test with Haskell in second row because of two second row injuries (I can't tell you which one). But in both cases we could deal comfortably with the first injury, it was just the second injury that made us reconfigure into a line-up we wouldn't dream of starting a test with.

The obvious one is what would happen if Youngs and Robson both got injured? We'd have to go with a non-specialist scrum half. Is it comfortable? No, but the other option would be 2 scrum halves on the bench and then you lose cover elsewhere.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:39 pm

Looking forward to see Wilson play. I know he played against SA and plays for Newcastle but haven't seen a lot of him.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:47 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

Yup. That's England's massive misstep in this line up. He's completely wasted at 12.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:48 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

Yup. That's England's massive misstep in this line up. He's completely wasted at 12.

He's only a decoy. We're not falling for that.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:49 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

Yup. That's England's massive misstep in this line up. He's completely wasted at 12.

Especially if Youngs takes a step or two before passing the ball.
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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:49 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Manu at 12 Sad . Farrell will run him into brick walls all day and he'll probably miss the rest of the season.

Hopefully that will not be the plan.

But wasn't that what he used t'eo for?

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Post by El Radar on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:49 pm

I'd prefer to see May or Nowell at full back with Daly on the wing, both are more secure under the high ball and against Ireland that's the most important facet of the game, also good to see a balanced back row with an actual 6 and 7 playing.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 12:57 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Looking forward to see Wilson play. I know he played against SA and plays for Newcastle but haven't seen a lot of him.
I listened to The Left Wing podcast, where Luke Fitzgerald's guest was the Independent.ie’s Will Slattery. Slattery was very dismissive of both Wilson and Curry. He said Wilson is no more than a journeyman, and doesn't believe Curry offers anything other than work rate.

That surprised Fitzgerald who, while not directly contradicting him, said he'd wait to pass judgement on Curry, as he'd heard some good opinions of him.

Some pundits have pointed out that Curry has been in good form, and we are perhaps in danger of forgetting that, after Underhill wowed us in the Autumn. Wilson may not be very glamorous but he hasn't let England down yet. Of course, that could change but, if a player can put a string of consistent Test performances together, then he is probably not just a journeyman.

I'll be fascinated to see how we go. There are some fine back rows in this year's Six Nations, and Ireland have rich resources. Still, England didn't always win with Hill, Back and Dallaglio.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Like I said I'm.a huge Launchbury fan but with that weakened as shields is out lawes offers that cover coming on at 6. Still worried about Daly can't really hide his technique this game. It's make or break for him at 15.

With what weakened?

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Post by propdavid_london on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:01 pm

Slade and Tuilagi will interchange between 12-13.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:02 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Like I said I'm.a huge Launchbury fan but with that weakened as shields is out lawes offers that cover coming on at 6. Still worried about Daly can't really hide his technique this game. It's make or break for him at 15.

With what weakened?

Lineout I guess.

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Post by EnglishReign on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:03 pm

Daly under the high ball is the only major concern. Otherwise, that’s a grand slam winning squad if ever I saw one...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:04 pm

Sorry, lineout gf.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:07 pm

Mark is a decent lineout option you know.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:09 pm

EnglishReign wrote:Daly under the high ball is the only major concern. Otherwise, that’s a grand slam winning squad if ever I saw one...

Unfortunately the Irish will not be waving swimming noddles in front of him, maybe he performed well in training against these childrens swimming aids?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:09 pm

Yup. Not as good as though. The same as Launchbury takes loads at wasps but all of our other options are better.


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:10 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Slade and Tuilagi will interchange between 12-13.  

Gonna get really confusing if Slade and Farrell start interchanging too. With Nowell helping out on the flanks and Daly having to try and remember if hes a center wing or fullback this could get "unstructured".


That aside England do seem to have managed to get a fairly balanced looking side for once. Daly is a concern but I still think 15 is potentially his best position. The constant flux of the backrow is the other obvious issue.

You have to fancy Ireland though, although England improved in the AIs they are still trying to find some consistency in selections and approach. i wouldnt bet my house on it but Ireland are well placed.


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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:11 pm

But not massively worse.

Plus he'll make up for it, in increased tackling , increased work rate, increased power and aggression, increased breakdown and clearing out savy...

So its all good OK

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:14 pm

Well we'll see how he gets on vs POM won't we. The rest of them again no. I'm.hoping he puts in his performance vs SA rather than his stint at 7 from the AIs. He's a decent player I'm sure he'll offer that glue for curry and vunipola to do their thing.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:19 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Looking forward to see Wilson play. I know he played against SA and plays for Newcastle but haven't seen a lot of him.
I listened to The Left Wing podcast, where Luke Fitzgerald's guest was the Independent.ie’s Will Slattery. Slattery was very dismissive of both Wilson and Curry. He said Wilson is no more than a journeyman, and doesn't believe Curry offers anything other than work rate.

That surprised Fitzgerald who, while not directly contradicting him, said he'd wait to pass judgement on Curry, as he'd heard some good opinions of him.

Some pundits have pointed out that Curry has been in good form, and we are perhaps in danger of forgetting that, after Underhill wowed us in the Autumn. Wilson may not be very glamorous but he hasn't let England down yet. Of course, that could change but, if a player can put a string of consistent Test performances together, then he is probably not just a journeyman.  

I'll be fascinated to see how we go. There are some fine back rows in this year's Six Nations, and Ireland have rich resources. Still, England didn't always win with Hill, Back and Dallaglio.

I cant take Luke Fitz seriously. To me he just seems like total airhead.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:22 pm

Think curry still has the most turnovers in the prem. More of a linking 7 than Underhill. Still v young for a forward and will get better in the next few years as well. Or should.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:22 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Looking forward to see Wilson play. I know he played against SA and plays for Newcastle but haven't seen a lot of him.
I listened to The Left Wing podcast, where Luke Fitzgerald's guest was the Independent.ie’s Will Slattery. Slattery was very dismissive of both Wilson and Curry. He said Wilson is no more than a journeyman, and doesn't believe Curry offers anything other than work rate.

That surprised Fitzgerald who, while not directly contradicting him, said he'd wait to pass judgement on Curry, as he'd heard some good opinions of him.

Some pundits have pointed out that Curry has been in good form, and we are perhaps in danger of forgetting that, after Underhill wowed us in the Autumn. Wilson may not be very glamorous but he hasn't let England down yet. Of course, that could change but, if a player can put a string of consistent Test performances together, then he is probably not just a journeyman.  

I'll be fascinated to see how we go. There are some fine back rows in this year's Six Nations, and Ireland have rich resources. Still, England didn't always win with Hill, Back and Dallaglio.

It is hard to rate Curry - because he's at an age where he's developing fast. He's still a real baby in back row turns. All you can say with real certainty is that he doesn't have that aggressive aura that Underhill has. You do wonder if he will be out-muscled by the Irish back row, but he is a smart player.

Wilson is the kind of jack of all trades hard working player that rarely shines, but is often vital to how a pack operates. He won't be going on a Lions' tour but he has looked comfortable in international rugby at 6 and 8, and tolerable at 7. He's definitely not a weakness.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:23 pm

Approaching 1,000 posts so locking this one and switching to Part 2:

http://www.606v2.com/t68399-6-nations-ireland-v-england-part-2#3774434

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