Glasgow Warriors v Lyon European Champions Cup Double Header 8th and 15th December

First topic message reminder :

Well the Euros are upon us again and Glasgow, after losing their first game at home, which is usually a death sentence in this competition, are now definitely looking forward to these two games, which could provide a route towards qualification to the knockouts. Yet even in that first defeat to the mighty Saracens, there looked to be a bit more about the Warriors than has been seen in Europe recently. They went toe to toe with the big boys and were not found lacking, Sarries knew they had been in a game for sure.

Glasgow really got their mojo back against Cardiff in the second match of the series, not only winning, but doing it in their swashbuckling style that everyone loves to watch. In truth they have not really looked back since then and have continued to play with style and a physical edge that has not always been there over the past few seasons. It is a potent blend and is getting results. The bad run of injuries that we had at the beginning of the season is also abating thankfully, with important players like Hogg, Swinson and the Nuke now all back up and running. Glasgow will be approaching this game with confidence, they know how to win on the road and if they win these two games, will be in a very good position to qualify.

Lyon, who are in their first Euro competition, made the cardinal mistake of underestimating their opposition and consequently lost their first home game to the Blues, they followed that up with a more predictable loss to Sarries away and so with two loses from two games, are as good as out of the comp already.

What this does to their motivation is hard to guess. French teams don't like to lose at home but equally are not paid up subscribers to lost causes either and the Top 14 will undoubtedly be their main focus for the rest of this season now. They will be dangerous though, especially if they stay in the game. Like all French sides, they will have a big powerful pack that will grind you down if you let them. They will not be used to the pace that Glasgow can play the game at though and may possibly lose interest in the game if they go badly behind, as they really won't have anything else to play for. If they lose at home, expect them to send a much weakened team back to Glasgow for the return a week later.

Glasgow main problem and it is a good one to have, is who to pick for this game. They have so many players on good form, there is genuine competition for places right across the team. Here goes with my selection:

1. Keeble
2. Brown
3. Rae
4. Gray
5. Harley (though a toss up between him and Swinson after the weekend)
6. Wilson
7. Gibbins
8. Fagerson M
9. Horne G
10. Hastings
11. DTH
12. McDowell (this is going to be the controversial pick, but he is playing out of his skin)
13. Jones H
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

Subs:

Bhatti (Allen is going to be on the naughty step for a few weeks)
Turner
Nuke
Swinson
Ashe (also pushing very hard for a starting spot)
Price
Horne P
Grigg/Niko (I can't decide on this one, both in tremendous form)

Yeh the ref claimed the defending player was attacking the ball, not Grigg, which is ok? apparently???

Delighted with that - will look forward to the highlights but the whole team seemed to deliver - particularly as we seemed to absorb a yellow card towards the end with no ill effects.

Anyone know how Fraser Brown is?

When you watch it, GC, try not to get too confused when Lyon; find themselves behind at home, start chasing the game, run from everywhere, make ridiculous off-loads, go for miracle passes and get picked off.
Glasgow batter them up front, exert a calm control over possession and territory, once ahead kick cleverly and tactically and allow Lyon to run around as if their hair's on fire.


I may be exaggerating slightly: but only slightly.

Great win by Glasgow, always seemed inevitable that they would win. Several strange reffing decisions that created both of Lyon's tries and would have kept them to 10. Still concerned by how easy we get ripped open, but I would rather win 30-15 with 4 tries than 18-3 with 6 penalties. The forwards won this contest for us. They sent Lyon backwards regularly and the backs had plenty of go forward to work with.

Our set piece is looking much more solid and the props were arguably on top. Hopefully Brown is not in too much bother, but this Lyon side do not look too terrifying that Turner/Stewart is worrying. Lyon will hopefully send a B side over to us. We need Brown fit for Sarries though.

Harley is a revelation this season. He seems a bit heavier and he carries into contact with actual power. He is a genuine option in the second row and all credit to him for committing to it.

Ashe balances our back-row. When he is playing, Fagerson and Wilson look better because he is a proper threat to carry and has the size to make up for the smaller 8. If Bradbury or Barclay are out of form and he is playing like this, he finds a spot in the Scotland back-row at BS or 8.

G Horne and Hastings were phenomenal. They are the two players Glasgow need to keep. Hogg and Russell need/needed to leave to develop and get rid of the boredom. These guys are hungry and are enjoying themselves.

Grigg had a good game and P Horne was ok. P Horne gets a lot of stick for what he can't do but, at club level, he is a good player. Hogg was quiet until his fluke try, but he kicked well. Seymour was probably the 4th best player on the pitch after Ashe, Hastings and G Horne. DTH tried and was okay. Just did not get the opportunity.

Thanks guys - good summaries.

10 points on the road is pretty good. I would like to see Glasgow go through but feel they really need something at Saracens; a win would be great.

In previous years 18-20 points have done the trick to get through. There was also Italian participation at that point which guaranteed teams 10 points. I think that if we get 5 points next week and at home to the Blues that should see us through, which would leave a trip to Sarries as a shoot out for top spot. I do think at the moment Edinburgh are the more likely of the Scottish sides to make it through, I think they'll go unbeaten through the rest of their group. But I'd say Glasgow are more likely than not to go through as things stand.

Watched the game last night when I got home.

Great performance by the Warriors, we really dominated them and never really looked like losing the game. We seem to have worked out how to win in Europe. Hard to see Lyon putting up to much resistance next week, but we need to keep our concentration, we really need the 5 points and hopefully Cardiff can do us a favour in one of their two games, though I am not very hopeful.

Great performance by the team, thought the forwards fronted up very well and the backs looked constantly dangerous. A key difference this season is the patience we are now showing, we keep hold of the ball so much better as we don't always go for the miracle pass or offload - I wasn't sure if the team had it in them to change that mental aspect, but credit to them and the coaches, they are looking like a very well oiled machine just now.

I'll echo the praise of Harley this season, he has been the standout player for me - he looks very much at home in the second row, where his lack of pace isn't as much of a problem. He has definitely bulked up and his carrying and workrate have been excellent all season - I can see him staying there for the remainder of his career.

Sarries thrashing the Blues. Looks like that's the group now down to us and Sarries. This, of course, is assuming that the Blues don't put in a five point victory next week and that Lyon don't send anything other than their third XV to the Fortress that is Scotstoun.


The only possible hiccup for Sarries is that Lyon may try to avoid total humiliation in front of their own fans and put out their strongest side in their final home fixture.


I honestly can't see anything but a five pointer for the north London side in Cardiff next week. While an in-form Glasgow entertain a Lyon side with nothing to play for.


So last round Glasgow go to Sarries, probably already one of the best runners up and most likely 4 points behind with a chance of winning the group. Could be a good afternoon out, that could.

jimbopip wrote:Sarries thrashing the Blues. Looks like that's the group now down to us and Sarries. This, of course, is assuming that the Blues don't put in a five point victory next week and that Lyon don't send anything other than their third XV to the Fortress that is Scotstoun.


The only possible hiccup for Sarries is that Lyon may try to avoid total humiliation in front of their own fans and put out their strongest side in their final home fixture.


I honestly can't see anything but a five pointer for the north London side in Cardiff next week. While an in-form Glasgow entertain a Lyon side with nothing to play for.


So last round Glasgow go to Sarries, probably already one of the best runners up and most likely 4 points behind with a chance of winning the group. Could be a good afternoon out, that could.

I think what you’re saying is that we’re the best team in the world and we’re going to win the Champions Cup.

And why not?

What sort of changes do we think Rennie will make for the return leg? I think he will freshen things up in the pack, and start Wilson and Swinson, with a question mark over who will drop out of the BR. In the backs, I think Jones will get a start and I would personally love to see what he and McDowell look like as a combination - that could be absolutely electric - although I can't see him not having Horne in there for his experience to help out Horne Jnr and Hastings.

I think this game is probably to important for there to be to much tinkering.

Shuggy will surely come in though, but may just be a straight swap for Grigg on the bench. I would love to see mcDowell involved as well, but I don't think he will be, unless they bench him.

Harley and Swinson, it does not really matter to much which way around they play

Fraser Brown looked like he might have gotten injured, so you would imagine Turner will start and Stewart will bench. There is a bit of a case to rotate Nuke and Rae as well, just to give Darcy a bit of a break, he has probably played more than anyone this year.

Hard to see much rational for any changes in the back row, all had great games. Ashe would probably have been MoM had they held off on the award for a few mins longer.

I think we will see more rotation for the cup games over xmas and then a big resting of players for the trip to Treviso in January.

Still it is hard to second guess DR, he clearly has confidence in his squad now and seems happy to rotate, much more so than last year, which will be very beneficial for us as the year unfolds.

Has Rae not played every game this season?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Has Rae not played every game this season?

I think he might have had one off, but he has certainly put in a big old shift so far. It looks like it has been the making of him as well, he really has stepped up after many years in the shadows.

I’d rotate Boring Name Fagerson out, shift Arthur Ashe to 8 and bring in Batman on the flank (retaining Fozzy on the bench).

BNF was looking a little bit too fiery for my liking. Not to sound too cocky, but we really should have too much for Lyon at home, and the only things that will derail that is if the players start believing that, or if a player does something stupid and we have to play most of the game a man down. That stuff’s fun in the league, but not in Europe!

I'm thinking there are a few players who must be in line for mandatory rest protocols. I honestly have no idea why I typed that but it sounds as if I know something about....well, something.

D'arcy Rae has now played more consecutive matches than the Luvvies have won since the Coronation.

Kebble may well start on the bench with Bhatti getting some much needed game time.

Brown will probably be rested as he looked the worse for wear when he hobbled off on Saturday.


Arthur Ashe; on fire but due a rest. However, since Mr & Mrs Gibbins are pretty fresh they should be two thirds of the back row. Fozzie and BNFSorry Ian, I tried but when I type it it reads like British National Front Young Fagerson will make up the numbers.


Furra Linee will probably bench with Dunbar -Jones starting. Grigg gets to put his feet up and think about what he'll do to the Luvvies under the mistletoe.

Mind you, DR may think that if we win this and Sarries batter Kaahdiff then that would be a good time to rest five or six players before the Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates (where normal service shall be resumed, and then some).

So, in short....I've got nothing.

Here's what DR said about next week's selection after Saturday's game:

Dave Rennie wrote:We’ll put a very strong side on the field next week, there will be changes. There’s not an awful lot between a lot of our boys and we want to reward performance and provide opportunities. There will be a handful of changes but we’ll be putting out a good a side as possible to get the job done.

quotes from http://glasgowwarriors.org/news/18/12/08/reaction-rennie-refusing-get-carried-away-despite-bonus-point-victory-over-lyon

Suggests a few changes though not too many. Personally I could see:
Front row. May depend on how Brown recovers. Both Kebble and Rae could do with a rest, but I think Rennie will be reluctant to change the whole front row, so assuming Brown doesn't recover I think at most one of the props will be changed. My money would be on Nuke coming in for Rae, as Nuke should be up to match fitness after a couple of appearances off the bench. Bhatti will get his chance against the luvvies.
Second row. Reckon we may see Swinson in for Harley, who's played a lot of rugby. Might even see Cummings on the bench.
Back row. Like others, I think Batman will come in. Ashe is playing too well to leave out IMO, so would put Fagerson on the bench for this one.
Half backs. No change.
Centres. Fancy Jones to come in, Grigg to take a rest with Dunbar on the bench.
Back three. No change IMO.

So something like
Keeble, Turner, Nuke; Ickle Jonny, Swinson; Batman, Gibbo, Ashe; Wee Horne, Hastings; Furra Linee, Shuggsy; DTH, Seymour, Hogg.
Stewart, Bhatti, Rae (possibly Du Plessis if Rennie wants to rest Rae altogether), Cummings/BBH, Fagerson, Aldi Price, Dunbar, Mad Mata.

Bit of rotation, but still a very strong team.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

So something like
Keeble, Turner, Nuke; Ickle Jonny, Swinson; Batman, Gibbo, Ashe; Wee Horne, Hastings; Furra Linee, Shuggsy; DTH, Seymour, Hogg.
Stewart, Bhatti, Rae (possibly Du Plessis if Rennie wants to rest Rae altogether), Cummings/BBH, Fagerson, Aldi Price, Dunbar, Mad Mata.

Bit of rotation, but still a very strong team.

Given that I don' think Rennie will involve McDowell (he might not even be in the European squad?), I would be very happy with that team. Some rotation, without lowering the quality at all with the likes of Swinson and Wilson hungry to prove a point that they should be starting.

EST wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

So something like
Keeble, Turner, Nuke; Ickle Jonny, Swinson; Batman, Gibbo, Ashe; Wee Horne, Hastings; Furra Linee, Shuggsy; DTH, Seymour, Hogg.
Stewart, Bhatti, Rae (possibly Du Plessis if Rennie wants to rest Rae altogether), Cummings/BBH, Fagerson, Aldi Price, Dunbar, Mad Mata.

Bit of rotation, but still a very strong team.

Given that I don' think Rennie will involve McDowell (he might not even be in the European squad?), I would be very happy with that team.  Some rotation, without lowering the quality at all with the likes of Swinson and Wilson hungry to prove a point that they should be starting.

Mc Dowell is in the squad.

I suspect he won't get used either, but I bet he is in the conversataion. He is very very close.

BigGee wrote:

EST wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

So something like
Keeble, Turner, Nuke; Ickle Jonny, Swinson; Batman, Gibbo, Ashe; Wee Horne, Hastings; Furra Linee, Shuggsy; DTH, Seymour, Hogg.
Stewart, Bhatti, Rae (possibly Du Plessis if Rennie wants to rest Rae altogether), Cummings/BBH, Fagerson, Aldi Price, Dunbar, Mad Mata.

Bit of rotation, but still a very strong team.

Given that I don' think Rennie will involve McDowell (he might not even be in the European squad?), I would be very happy with that team.  Some rotation, without lowering the quality at all with the likes of Swinson and Wilson hungry to prove a point that they should be starting.

Mc Dowell is in the squad.

I suspect he won't get used either, but I bet he is in the conversataion. He is very very close.

I would love to see him involved, if not from the start then on the bench instead of Dunbar - I think this would be a good game to give him a taste of European action, at home against a dispirited French team who will probably be bringing a weakened team.

I don't think I realised just how big Stafford McDowell actually is.

1. At 6'4", he's the same height as Jamie Roberts.
   
2. At 103kg, he's only 6kg lighter than Manu Tuilagi, with plenty of time to make up the difference.
   
3. His hands are better than Bruce Lee in Fist of Fury.
   
4. His name sounds like a firm of insolvency practitioners.
   

I heard that Stafford McDowell is called Stafford as his guns are the same size is the town, even when he was born.

I also heard that Stafford McDowell has counted to infinty twice, that he can win a game of connect 4 in 3 moves, and that Chuck Norris wears Stafford McDowell pyjammas.

Stafford McDowell has a bear rug in his living room. The bear isn't dead, it's just afraid to move.

Stafford McDowell, Maro Itoje and God are currently involved in a running race up mount Everest, well, I say currently but Stafford is sitting at the summit waiting to see who'll be second.

tigertattie wrote:Stafford McDowell, Maro Itoje and God Freidrich Nietzsche are currently involved in a running race up mount Everest, well, I say currently but Stafford is sitting at the summit waiting to see who'll be second.

Fixed that for you. Although it was telling the doctors that he was racing Saracens up Himalayan mountains that got him institutionalised.

Right, you'll need to help me out here!

Freidrich Nietzsche???

tigertattie wrote:Right, you'll need to help me out here!

Freidrich Nietzsche???

The most depressing philosopher you'll ever read. Founded Nihlism and was very anti-God.

NeilyBroon wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Right, you'll need to help me out here!

Freidrich Nietzsche???

The most depressing philosopher you'll ever read. Founded Nihlism and was very anti-God.

Talked a lot more sense than Jean-Jacques Rousseau. What a load of mince that was...

More of a David Hume fan myself.

NeilyBroon wrote:More of a David Hume fan myself.

A poor man’s Thomas Hobbes.

There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of animals which Stafford McDowell allows to live.

Some say Stafford McDowell would actually be picked in a Warren Gatland Lions team.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Some say Stafford McDowell would actually be picked in a Warren Gatland Lions team.

You've taken that too far now

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Some say Stafford McDowell would actually be picked in a Warren Gatland Lions team.

You've taken that too far now

Aye it is probably the most far-fetched of the lot!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Some say Stafford McDowell would actually be picked in a Warren Gatland Lions team.

You've taken that too far now

Aye it is probably the most far-fetched of the lot!

Some players just aren't AWJ.

After all this he's signed a 2-year professional contract. Well deserved.

Dave Rennie has made eight changes to his starting XV as Lyon visit Scotstoun in the Heineken Champions Cup.Stafford McDowall will make his European debut at Scotstoun tomorrow

It is a big week for Stafford McDowall. The 20-year-old signed his first professional contract on Wednesday and starts his first game in Europe at inside centre tomorrow lunchtime.

Huw Jones comes in to start outside of him having scored with his first touch of the ball off the bench in Glasgow’s 22-42 victory away in France last Saturday.

Tommy Seymour also extended his stay with the club this week and starts alongside Niko Matawalu and Stuart Hogg in the back-three.

Ali Price starts at scrum-half, pulling the strings alongside Adam Hastings.

Co-captain Ryan Wilson returns to the starting line-up. Callum Gibbins and Matt Fagerson join him at the back of the scrum.

George Turner and Siua Halanukonuka made an impact off the bench in Lyon last week, they start alongside Oli Kebble while Tim Swinson joins Jonny Gray behind them.

On the bench, winger Robbie Nairn is also in line to make his European debut.

Meanwhile, it’s been confirmed that Fraser Brown will be sidelined for 8-10 weeks with a knee injury sustained in last Saturday’s win over Lyon.

Glasgow Warriors Head Coach Dave Rennie said: “We got five points away from home against a strong French side, so we are happy with that.

“We weren’t as clinical as we would have liked to have been, but we are working hard driving expectations and putting in a performance that we are really proud of. It was a job well done, but we reckon we have a little bit more in us.

“There is not a hell of a lot between individuals within our squad, so we don’t believe that any changes weaken us.

“When you look at it across the board, we have good players coming in and it gives them an opportunity to make a bit of a statement heading into a couple of local derbies.”

Glasgow Warriors team to play Lyon in the Heineken Champions Cup at Scotstoun Stadium, Saturday 15 December, kick-off 1pm (UK Time) - live on BT Sport. You can follow the game on Twitter @GlasgowWarriors. Glasgow Warriors appearances in brackets:

1. Oli Kebble (20)
2. George Turner (31)
3. Siua Halanukonuka (19)
4. Tim Swinson (115)
5. Jonny Gray (94)
6. Ryan Wilson (CC) (146)
7. Callum Gibbins (CC) (26)
8. Matt Fagerson (35)

9. Ali Price (65)
10. Adam Hastings (18)
11. Niko Matawalu (102)
12. Stafford McDowall (5)
13. Huw Jones (14)
14. Tommy Seymour (122)
15. Stuart Hogg (110)

Replacements

16. Grant Stewart (11)
17. Jamie Bhatti (33)
18. Petrus du Plessis (4)
19. Rob Harley (195)
20. Chris Fusaro (152)
21. Nick Frisby (6)
22. Pete Horne (148)
23. Robbie Nairn (2)

Not available due to injury: Fraser Brown (knee), Zander Fagerson (ankle), Bruce Flockhart (illness), Tom Gordon (illness), Rory Hughes (shoulder), Sam Johnson (knee), Lee Jones (knee), Lelia Masaga (calf), Kiran McDonald (calf), Matt Smith (shoulder) and Tevita Tameilau (ankle).

Well DR is certainly not afraid to role the dice, that selection is almost Tooniesque.

In reality what it does mean is that Glasgow have a very strong squad and he is not afraid to use them. As he said himself, this selection does not weaken us. He is showing great faith in his players and they are likely to repay him for that.

Great to see McDowell make his debut and Nairn should join him off the bench. He looked good against the Scarlets and it will be good to see what he can do at this level when he comes on later in the game.

I don't really have any issues with the selections, I think we will do just fine.

Who the hell is Tom Gordon?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Who the hell is Tom Gordon?

I think he is a partnership player with Currie, not been mentioned before though, maybe he is training with the Warriors full time now.

I really like that team, very strong front 5, with a nice balance to the BR. My only minor complaint is that Horne Jnr is fast turning into himself into one of our most important players - I would have probably started him in this game, but I suppose Price isn't such a bad replacement.

Can't wait to see the Hastings, McDowell, Jones midfield - that could be absolutely electric.

I think George Horne was due his rest week. He was with Scotland right the way through and then straight back into action against Scarlets.

He is probably on the beach in Dubai even as we speak.

That's true, although he wasn't really used very much for Scotland - probably right to give him a rest prior to the derby games though. Price and Frisby are very able stand-ins.

BigGee wrote:I think George Horne was due his rest week. He was with Scotland right the way through and then straight back into action against Scarlets.

He is probably on the beach in Dubai even as we speak.

Confirmed. I saw him sleeping in a match box in Jumeirah.

That was not a bad start!

Weather considered, it couldnt be much better. I cannot stand Andy Nicol commentary though!

Niko bags a second try

18-0 Glasgow, all going to plan, we are playing the conditions very well

Sarries are ahead as well, can't work out if that's positive for Glasgow or not. Suppose it probably is as it knocks the Blues out.