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Post by LadyPutt on Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:29 am

First topic message reminder :

Four people are up for the Worldwide (formerly Overseas) award and one is Francesco Molinari - never heard of the other three. I’ve voted for him. How about you lot? It’s time a golfer won something! Oh, and a certain T Woods is up for the Sporting Moment of 2018, but I’ve voted for Alistair Cook! Laugh
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Post by McLaren on Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:22 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:This show used to be called sports review of the year, it was a chance to look back and relive the great sporting moments of the year. SPOTY was only part of the show, and attention only turned to the award at the end.

Now it's become a celebrity focused awards ceremony, with little sport and a lot a of waffly interviews, I no longer have any interest. Can't watch it.
With you on that. Caught some bits last night, but it was pretty ordinary. Mac would have enjoyed it I reckon.


How come?


I din't see it but find it hard to imagine I would like it.  Isn't it just celebrity TV of the sort tabloid readers watch, in the same genre as that jungle thing.
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Post by pedro on Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:53 am

McLaren wrote:I din't see it but find it hard to imagine I would like it.  Isn't it just celebrity TV of the sort tabloid readers watch, in the same genre as that jungle thing.
Oxymoron?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:39 am

McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:This show used to be called sports review of the year, it was a chance to look back and relive the great sporting moments of the year. SPOTY was only part of the show, and attention only turned to the award at the end.

Now it's become a celebrity focused awards ceremony, with little sport and a lot a of waffly interviews, I no longer have any interest. Can't watch it.
With you on that. Caught some bits last night, but it was pretty ordinary. Mac would have enjoyed it I reckon.


How come?


I din't see it but find it hard to imagine I would like it.  Isn't it just celebrity TV of the sort tabloid readers watch, in the same genre as that jungle thing.
I'm just trolling, which is bad. IMO, there was way tooooooo much pandering to 'right on' issues and too little about reviewing the actual sport.
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Post by beninho on Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:58 am

I watched it, it was alright. It didn't anger or annoy me in anyway. I don't see how it could. I saw some ott reactions to Fury not being nominated, but I'm not a fan of the homophobic drug taker, though he is a good boxer.

I'm very much for equality and equal rights, but in sport its totally different, and baded on viewers and interest and sponsorship. Georgia Hall did well, but pales into nothing compared to England im a world cup semi.

I also would have taken Cooks final hundred over the netball ladies for moment of the year. Though I guess Eric Diers pen or trippiers free kick was probably the biggest sporting moments on tv all year.

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Post by super_realist on Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:53 am

beninho wrote:I watched it, it was alright. It didn't anger or annoy me in anyway. I don't see how it could. I saw some ott reactions to Fury not being nominated, but I'm not a fan of the homophobic drug taker, though he is a good boxer.

I'm very much for equality and equal rights, but in sport its totally different, and baded on viewers and interest and sponsorship. Georgia Hall did well, but pales into nothing compared to England im a world cup semi.

I also would have taken Cooks final hundred over the netball ladies for moment of the year.  Though I guess Eric Diers pen or trippiers free kick was probably the biggest sporting moments on tv all year.

Christ, I'd rather watch netball than that chav Trippier.

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Post by beninho on Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:05 am

You have issues with the spurs right back. Bit random. One of the least offensive footballers I would guess. Very strange.

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Post by super_realist on Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:08 am

beninho wrote:You have issues with the spurs right back. Bit random. One of the least offensive footballers I would guess. Very strange.

No, I just think he looks like he's scum.

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Post by Davie on Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:05 am

I'm a gooner but Trippier is one of the very few - in fact the only Spurs player I can take to

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Post by beninho on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:00 am

Oh look, a mixed race sportsmen realist hates the look of and has an irrational hatred of....



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Post by super_realist on Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:12 pm

beninho wrote:Oh look, a mixed race sportsmen realist hates the look of and has an irrational hatred of....



Laugh I didn't even know he was mixed race.

I'm actually going to defend Lewis Hamilton for a minute, for once I agree with his comments about his home town. If your inspiration to become successful is to escape the depravity and poverty of the town you live in, what's wrong with saying that? Stevenage isn't known to be a very nice place, so why pretend that it is?
I don't understand people who try to defend a place just because they happen to come from it. I'm never shy in criticising Scotland, yes there's some nice bits to it, but there's some truly reprehensible bits to it which make it a pretty awful place to come from. So if Hamilton wants to describe Stevenage as a slum, I've got not problem with that. No point in putting a sprig of parsley on a dog turd is there?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:39 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Oh look, a mixed race sportsmen realist hates the look of and has an irrational hatred of....




Laugh I didn't even know he was mixed race.
Is he? Wikipedia, for what it's worth, has no mention of it.

super_realist wrote:I'm actually going to defend Lewis Hamilton for a minute, for once I agree with his comments about his home town. If your inspiration to become successful is to escape the depravity and poverty of the town you live in, what's wrong with saying that? Stevenage isn't known to be a very nice place, so why pretend that it is?
I don't understand people who try to defend a place just because they happen to come from it. I'm never shy in criticising Scotland, yes there's some nice bits to it, but there's some truly reprehensible bits to it which make it a pretty awful place to come from. So if Hamilton wants to describe Stevenage as a slum, I've got not problem with that. No point in putting a sprig of parsley on a dog turd is there?
I suspect the problem was his use of the word "slums" to describe Stevenage. If he'd simply said he had a hard childhood and wanted out/a better life, no-one would have had a bad word to say about that. Hamilton's a plank, and this storm in a teacup kind of confirms it.
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Post by Davie on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:47 pm

Wikipedia would be blamed of racism if they mentioned it

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:43 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Oh look, a mixed race sportsmen realist hates the look of and has an irrational hatred of....




Laugh I didn't even know he was mixed race.
Is he? Wikipedia, for what it's worth, has no mention of it.

super_realist wrote:I'm actually going to defend Lewis Hamilton for a minute, for once I agree with his comments about his home town. If your inspiration to become successful is to escape the depravity and poverty of the town you live in, what's wrong with saying that? Stevenage isn't known to be a very nice place, so why pretend that it is?
I don't understand people who try to defend a place just because they happen to come from it. I'm never shy in criticising Scotland, yes there's some nice bits to it, but there's some truly reprehensible bits to it which make it a pretty awful place to come from. So if Hamilton wants to describe Stevenage as a slum, I've got not problem with that. No point in putting a sprig of parsley on a dog turd is there?
I suspect the problem was his use of the word "slums" to describe Stevenage. If he'd simply said he had a hard childhood and wanted out/a better life, no-one would have had a bad word to say about that. Hamilton's a plank, and this storm in a teacup kind of confirms it.


Poults always seems quite proud of his Stevenage roots - time for him to weigh in. I've spent a lot of time in Stevenage and you'd have a hard time finding properties of the 60's or 70's version of slums there.

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Post by BlueCoverman on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:53 pm

The crucial thing about Stevenage is that we take 3 points off them on Boxing Day... BBC SPOTY - Page 2 3513163098

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Post by pedro on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:54 pm

Sounds like Stevenage would be the perfect place for an anthropologists christmas field trip.

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Post by dynamark on Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:22 am

I think Stevenage was the first of the so called 'new towns'.
Never been there but the likes of Corby,Harlow,MK all lack a bit of history and soul which most places have the benefit of.
Not sure LH will be loosing much sleep generally very well schooled in saying the right thing.The F1teams all have staff who do only PR with and through the drivers.

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Post by Diggers on Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:38 pm

The people moved to Stevenage were from areas which were far more slum like in the East End. Lik most new towns it’s soulless.
It falls nicely into the housing market debate. For the south east it’s just about affordable for lower income workers...you just wouldn’t particularly want to live there.

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Post by McLaren on Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:45 pm

Also from what I know Hamilton came from a quasi middle class family.
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Post by raycastleunited on Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:30 am

Stevenage is definitely not deprived. For a start it's in Hertfordshire. As others have said as a new town it lacks history and culture, it's only had a football league club in the last ten years! It is of course a bit chavvy, but compared to places like Hull and Rotherham (not to mention real slums in places like India) it is pretty insensitive and spectacular that Hamilton called it a slum.

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Post by McLaren on Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:34 am

I quite like Hamilton but he has been prone to over playing how deprived his background was over the years.

He may not have come from the sort of wealth his rivals at the time did but his family were hardly dirt poor and more importantly he clearly was deprived in terms of his parents caring about his development as a person and his future success.  Something money can't buy.

Although what is true is that it must have been tough being black and trying to get into motorsport.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:01 am

raycastleunited wrote:Stevenage is definitely not deprived. For a start it's in Hertfordshire. As others have said as a new town it lacks history and culture, it's only had a football league club in the last ten years! It is of course a bit chavvy, but compared to places like Hull and Rotherham (not to mention real slums in places like India) it is pretty insensitive and spectacular that Hamilton called it a slum.

Not to mention a collection of wonderful pubs in the area!

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Post by super_realist on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:30 am

raycastleunited wrote:Stevenage is definitely not deprived. For a start it's in Hertfordshire. As others have said as a new town it lacks history and culture, it's only had a football league club in the last ten years! It is of course a bit chavvy, but compared to places like Hull and Rotherham (not to mention real slums in places like India) it is pretty insensitive and spectacular that Hamilton called it a slum.

People really do get over excited about the use of language. Everyone seems to take words as being literal these days, nothing can be figurative, nothing can be hyperbolic, nothing can be a playful exaggeration, seemingly no one can hear someone knock something without taking gross offence to it. Guess what, Stevenage is just a town, it doesn't have feelings, and if you are offended that someone calls a town like Stevenage in derogatory terms then there's probably some truth to what they're saying.

I can't stand Hamilton, I think he's a jerk, a spoiled brat, a chav, a thick moron, a man with no class, a bad loser and egomaniac but he's perfectly entitled to refer to his home town as being a slum if that's what he feels about it.

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Post by super_realist on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:30 am

McLaren wrote:Also from what I know Hamilton came from a quasi middle class family.

What the hell is that Mac?

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Post by McLaren on Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:27 am

Quasi

being partly or almost.
"quasicrystalline"
synonyms: partly, partially, in part, part, to a certain extent/degree, to a limited extent/degree, to some extent/degree, half, in some measure, relatively, comparatively, moderately, (up) to a point, a little, somewhat; More
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Post by super_realist on Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:33 am

I suppose anyone is middle class compared to someone like you Mac.

I know what the word "quasi" means, I've just never heard it mentioned in regards to someone's "class", as if you know anything about whether he is "quasi" middle class or not.

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Post by beninho on Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:47 am

Have you just pulled up mac for making a comment when he knows nothing about it, while you've just labelled hamilton with various derogatory terms about someone you also don't know.

Ha ha.

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Post by super_realist on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 pm

beninho wrote:Have you just pulled up mac for making a comment when he knows nothing about  it, while you've just labelled hamilton with various derogatory terms about someone you also don't know.

Ha ha.

I have made comments about Hamilton which are clear to see in the media. I don't think they've ever gone into the minutiae of Hamilton's place in the class system.

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Post by super_realist on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 pm

beninho wrote:Have you just pulled up mac for making a comment when he knows nothing about  it, while you've just labelled hamilton with various derogatory terms about someone you also don't know.

Ha ha.

I have made comments about Hamilton which are clear to see in the media and he's well documented as being those things I referenced. I don't think they've ever gone into the minutiae of Hamilton's place in the class system, certainly not enough for Mac to make the rather silly claim that he's "quasi middle class"

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Post by pedro on Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:09 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Have you just pulled up mac for making a comment when he knows nothing about  it, while you've just labelled hamilton with various derogatory terms about someone you also don't know.

Ha ha.

I have made comments about Hamilton which are clear to see in the media and he's well documented as being those things I referenced. I don't think they've ever gone into the minutiae of Hamilton's place in the class system, certainly not enough for Mac to make the rather silly claim that he's "quasi middle class"
I think it means that Hamilton is 40% class.

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Post by raycastleunited on Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:40 pm

McLaren wrote:Quasi

being partly or almost.
"quasicrystalline"
synonyms: partly, partially, in part, part, to a certain extent/degree, to a limited extent/degree, to some extent/degree, half, in some measure, relatively, comparatively, moderately, (up) to a point, a little, somewhat; More

fair play OK

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Post by raycastleunited on Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:15 pm

super_realist wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:Stevenage is definitely not deprived. For a start it's in Hertfordshire. As others have said as a new town it lacks history and culture, it's only had a football league club in the last ten years! It is of course a bit chavvy, but compared to places like Hull and Rotherham (not to mention real slums in places like India) it is pretty insensitive and spectacular that Hamilton called it a slum.

People really do get over excited about the use of language. Everyone seems to take words as being literal these days, nothing can be figurative, nothing can be hyperbolic, nothing can be a playful exaggeration, seemingly no one can hear someone knock something without taking gross offence to it. Guess what, Stevenage is just a town, it doesn't have feelings, and if you are offended that someone calls a town like Stevenage in derogatory terms then there's probably some truth to what they're saying.

I can't stand Hamilton, I think he's a jerk, a spoiled brat, a chav, a thick moron, a man with no class, a bad loser and egomaniac  but he's perfectly entitled to refer to his home town as being a slum if that's what he feels about it.

What a very odd comment, "Stevenage is just a town, it doesn't have feelings". When I think of a town or a place in this context, I think of its population. The people do have feelings. For example if I said France celebrated winning the World Cup, most people would think of the people of France celebrating.

So when you typed that Stevenage doesn't have feelings, were you referring to the buildings and landscape? Well they obviously don't have feelings. But that interpretation points to a restricted social development, the type of response expected from somebody with aspergers. People who suffer from aspergers typically demonstrate less empathy, so maybe we are on to something here.

Back to Hamilton, I am not offended on behalf of Stevenage. But I don't think he was being light-hearted, instead he was trying to be cool and mimic the rhetoric of US gangsta rappers etc from the "ghetto". Except he's not from a ghetto or a slum and his posturing trivialises those who genuinely do live in slums or have succeeded despite growing up in poverty.

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Post by Diggers on Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:53 pm

Yeah, funny one with Hamilton. He had plenty going on, lived with his mum then his dad, mixed race (which can bring issues, apparently he was bullied at school), a brother with cerebral palsy. Certainly, motor racing is a posh boys game so he’s bucked the system to get where he is.
He’s done incredibly well for himself, no need to over egg the pudding by acting as if you’re some kind of ghetto child.

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Post by LadyPutt on Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:41 pm

Well, I saw a photo of the three bed council semi the Hamiltons lived in when he was born, not the larger house they moved to when he was 12 as a result of his father’s hard work and determination to better himself, and it looked pretty grotty to me so OK, it wasn’t a slum in the literal sense of the word, but I know what he means.
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Post by super_realist on Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:56 am

raycastleunited wrote:
super_realist wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:Stevenage is definitely not deprived. For a start it's in Hertfordshire. As others have said as a new town it lacks history and culture, it's only had a football league club in the last ten years! It is of course a bit chavvy, but compared to places like Hull and Rotherham (not to mention real slums in places like India) it is pretty insensitive and spectacular that Hamilton called it a slum.

People really do get over excited about the use of language. Everyone seems to take words as being literal these days, nothing can be figurative, nothing can be hyperbolic, nothing can be a playful exaggeration, seemingly no one can hear someone knock something without taking gross offence to it. Guess what, Stevenage is just a town, it doesn't have feelings, and if you are offended that someone calls a town like Stevenage in derogatory terms then there's probably some truth to what they're saying.

I can't stand Hamilton, I think he's a jerk, a spoiled brat, a chav, a thick moron, a man with no class, a bad loser and egomaniac  but he's perfectly entitled to refer to his home town as being a slum if that's what he feels about it.

What a very odd comment, "Stevenage is just a town, it doesn't have feelings". When I think of a town or a place in this context, I think of its population. The people do have feelings. For example if I said France celebrated winning the World Cup, most people would think of the people of France celebrating.

So when you typed that Stevenage doesn't have feelings, were you referring to the buildings and landscape? Well they obviously don't have feelings. But that interpretation points to a restricted social development, the type of response expected from somebody with aspergers. People who suffer from aspergers typically demonstrate less empathy, so maybe we are on to something here.

Back to Hamilton, I am not offended on behalf of Stevenage. But I don't think he was being light-hearted, instead he was trying to be cool and mimic the rhetoric of US gangsta rappers etc from the "ghetto". Except he's not from a ghetto or a slum and his posturing trivialises those who genuinely do live in slums or have succeeded despite growing up in poverty.

Why would the population be so over-sensitive though? Plenty places aren't especially salubrious, Stevenage being one of them. If someone called Blackburn, Blackpool, Oldham etc a slum I doubt the residents would be crying about it. What makes Stevenage so high and mighty someone can't make a remark about it without it being taken ultra literally? No one is saying it's the black hole of Calcutta or the Gorbals in 1920's Glasgow, but if it's not a nice place, then there's no harm in Hamilton describing it as a slum. It's just a throwaway comment, not a definitive description of the place. Calling it a slum is simply hyperbolic, a bit like when someone says "I'm starving". It's an exaggeration of the truth, a statement not to be taken as a definitive fact. It would seem that people are incapable of separating something which is literal, figurative, part of a rhetoric or something which is hyperbolic.

I don't have Aspergers )how can I be empathetic to Stevenage when I don't know what it's like to be from Stevenage? Do you mean sympathetic?), I simply think people tend to be far too defensive about where they come from. There's no point pretending that Stevenage is Mayfair when it's more Old Kent Road. I would think it would indicate more of a mental issue for someone to get upset when referring in their own opinion to how they see the town. Be more mature is someone just reacted with a "fair enough" Same as people getting upset when someone makes a derogatory remark about their mother. Who cares? It's just a meaningless statement that isn't supposed to be taken so seriously, not as if Stevenage is going to suffer for it.

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Post by beninho on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:21 am

If a famous person described where I lived as a slum on live tv to millions with it being reported to millions more, I doubt id be that happy. Especially if the place isn't a slum, which Stevenage isn't.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:55 am

beninho wrote:If a famous person described where I lived as a slum on live tv to millions with it being reported to millions more, I doubt id be that happy. Especially if the place isn't a slum, which Stevenage isn't.


If he had said he grew up in a town with way too many roundabouts all of which look pretty much exactly the same, with consistently incomplete traffic signs, I could have had more sympathy.

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Post by super_realist on Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:16 pm

beninho wrote:If a famous person described where I lived as a slum on live tv to millions with it being reported to millions more, I doubt id be that happy. Especially if the place isn't a slum, which Stevenage isn't.

Why would you care? If you don't consider it to be, what does it matter what anyone else thinks? No one left SPOTY believing that Stevenage IS an actual slum. I'd give people credit for being able to separate the hyperbolic from the literal, something which can't be said on these boards. Rolling Eyes

Was there a massive uproar when Andy Murray described himself as about as exciting as a wet weekend in Worthing? No, well some idiots , most took it in the context in which it was meant.

If someone called my hometown a dump or a sh1t-hole, why would I care? I know that such language isn't to be taken seriously and it doesn't actually make my town a dump or a sh!thole. Likewise if someone referred to my mum as a lady of loose morals or whatever insult is thrown at people I'd probably laugh. Why would I take offence? It's just someone using the wrong speech, maybe to get a reaction,  but they don't mean it literally.

You people are way too sensitive about silly things that don't matter. Are you really trying to tell me you have never exaggerated a truth? Played on a stereotype etc? Of course you have, so give Hamilton a break, for once in his life, he actually deserves it here. It's not exactly a crime to call Stevenage a slum. It's hardly the worst insult you could dish out.

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Post by beninho on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:25 pm

The thing is he has admitted it was the wrong choice of words, which it clearly was, yet your still defending it?

And was your mother an actual street walke?, as unless it was a close friend, I cant see many people letting that slide as an insult. "

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Post by super_realist on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:47 pm

beninho wrote:The thing is he has admitted it was the wrong choice of words, which it clearly was, yet your still defending it?

And was your mother an actual street walke?, as unless it was a close friend, I cant see many people letting that slide as an insult. "

Did he "admit" or was he under pressure and duress to placate the baying mob of jingoistic morons who can't stand to have someone poke fun at a town known to be far from desirable? Calling a town a slum is hardly the worst insult and not something that any town (or townspeople) should be getting sand in their vaginas about. It clearly wasn't literal and anyone taking it as literal is just being a wet lettuce and professionally offended. If Stevenage was so lovely, then why would he want to get out?

I'm not so sensitive that I'd take offence at someone calling my mother a name. You have to see these things for what they are, such a slur would be designed to get a response. The best way to respond to such a claim would be to laugh and not letting them get the satisfaction that you actually cared what they said, like what Zidane should have done instead of reacting like a British chav, he should have just shown him that he was the better man.

Getting upset about someone calling your town a slum is simply a demonstration of how insecure you are.

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Post by McLaren on Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:08 pm

Super I am pretty much with you on this one.

But we are pretty lucky, no one is going to describe Edinburgh or St Andrews as slums.
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Post by super_realist on Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:13 pm

Even if they did Mac, I couldn't care less. Edinburgh and St.Andrews both have really rough bits to them, so if someone wants to call them slums, who cares?

Nothing happens when someone calls a town a slum, whether it is or isn't.  I don't see why some people are so defensive about what someone else says about their town. What difference does it make to anyone from Stevenage if Hamilton describes it (or anywhere else) as a slum? It's not as if Stevenage is a mass tourist destination or that it's going to suffer any lack of investment as a result. It's hardly likely to suffer as a result of this, if anything people might look into it a bit and try to find out a bit more about it. When it comes to a town like Stevenage, no publicity is bad publicity. People will find out if it's a slum or not, but all they'll find is a load of insecure, bitter people with rose tinted spectacles on berating anyone who dares have a go at their shabby post war new town demanding nothing but literal descriptions of the place.

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Post by beninho on Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:30 pm

I love watching someone get so riled while arguing that people shouldn't care about something. It makes the responses worthwhile. Ots a brilliant circle of bonkersness

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Post by super_realist on Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:31 pm

I'm not getting riled, I'm simply saying there is no justification for someone to get upset about Hamilton calling the place a slum. Is he not entitled to an opinion?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:39 am

McLaren wrote:Super I am pretty much with you on this one.

But we are pretty lucky, no one is going to describe Edinburgh or St Andrews as slums.


Bl00dy hell! They ARE the same person.


Mac,
I haven't spent much time in Edinburgh, no doubt every street is pristine and every dwelling bijou.
But you'd also have to look pretty hard in Stevenage to find anything utterly derelict or condemned. If specific properties are "slum"like, then it almost certainly has more to do with the individual resident than something more endemic.

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