Edinburgh vs Glasgow The 1872 Cup - Edinburgh's annual slaughtering of the new effeminate ones

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 17 Dec 2018, 11:52 am

First topic message reminder :

All in good jest folks!

It’s that time again. When Edinburgh rugby, a tough gnarly rugby team, face off against the hair gel wearing, skin moisturising, sun bed using Glasgow "Warriors".

This annual handing out of league points to Edinburgh is much welcomed as Glasgow, a team who really are living off past glory, look to try and get their hands on some silverware in this day and age.

The history speaks for itself really with the current holders Edinburgh continually handing out a spanking to the team of Avon consumers (if only the fans would follow the lead eh)

Edinburgh 20–8 Glasgow
Edinburgh 23–11 Glasgow
Glasgow 11–14 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 12–25 Glasgow
Glasgow 18–29 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 18–17 Glasgow
Glasgow 17–0 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 24–19 Glasgow

Now, let’s get ready to hear from the warrior nation about how they believe Edinburgh are the effeminates and how they think Glasgow will prevail this year!
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Post by BigGee on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 3:36 pm

Yeah it was not a game that was pretty on the eye, though I totally agree with Jimbo that you have to applaud Cockers in working out a way to win. The most annoying thing from a Glasgow perspective is that we knew Edinburgh would play like that, it was not so much a plan B we needed, but a plan A.

Great kudos to the Edinburgh front row, Nel in particular, who now looks to be right back to his best form, something we were not sure we would ever see again. The prospect of him and Fagerson playing for Scotland in the 6N and WC is at least something to look forward to.

Our superior bench was largely nullified by the early injuries and both centres and Hoggy getting knobbled did not help our game plan either. Somehow I just knew that Dunbar was not going to last the whole game. I do worry about his future at Glasgow now and maybe even in the game, he is definitely struggling.

Hooker is causing us no end of issues as well. The line out was just not working and the fact that Stewart was hooked at HT, suggest the coaching staff were not happy with him. Problem is Bryce is not any better, but that is basically all we have got till Brown and Turner get back. Grant is a work in progress and needs to be continued with but this problem could easily become our Achilles heal in the games to come, particularly the euros.

There will be plenty of changes for the trip to Italy next week, but we certainly can't afford to throw points away now. Benetton won't be to interested in Europe, but will likely be targeting this game, knowing Glasgow will rest players, they will be up for it.

Losing these two games could go either way for Glasgow. It could send our season of the rails and show others the formula to beat us, or it could re-vitalise us and kill off any complacency. Hopefully it will be the latter.

Edinburgh have shown they should be challenging for the play offs and if they play like that, should also be giving a disinterested Toulon a game and a half down in France. Cockers problem remains that he can't keep sending the same players out to war each week. A lot of them are going to get hammered with Scotland as well in the 6N. Hopefully his injured players will help that as they filter back, but he needs to be a bit braver with his selections and get more players bloodied and up to speed.

Both coaches will be pretty happy with how the seasons have gone so far, but no doubt about it that Cockers will be the happier of the two after this last week!

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Post by RDW on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 3:52 pm

McKenzie returning would be a big boost - he's a decent experienced lock who will fill in well when Toolis and Gilchrist are rested. He was due to be back in December so hopefully soon.

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Post by RDW on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 7:35 pm

Brendan wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Top spot is no longer a forgone conclusion for Glasgow - Munster are only 2 points behind! 

In Edinburgh's conference there is only 3 points seperating 2nd and 5th so all to play for. These two wins against Glasgow have been crucial to keep us in the hunt.

Glasgow have Benetton away and Ospreys at home.  Depending on results if Glasgow lose to Ospreys they could be 3rd and Ospreys 1st/2nd.  Ospreys could also end up in 5th if results went against them.

Ospreys just lost to Dragons!

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Post by BigGee on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 9:52 pm

Results generally have been all over the place in the festive Derbies. That is actually a good thing for the league and both tables look far more competitive than at this stage last year.

Big winners were Benetton, Conacht Blues and Edinburgh, who won both games.

Glasgow, Scarlets and Zebre lost both.

Still the league is generally decided by those teams with the squad depth to give up their international players and get results at that time of year. I am not sure it is going to be that different this year.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:27 pm

I thought I'd have a glance over at the respective club forums to see what the word is with them.  It's eye opening.

Edinburgh - much like Murrayfield, no one there, only a couple of folks posting bits and pieces.
Glasgow - Accusing each other of sectarianism and debating the meaning of the word Jihad

It's all a bit odd.  Think I might just stay here.

In terms of the match, not to seem wise after the fact, but on RDW's point I would have selected Shoeman ahead of Kebble.  The bloke's a monster and impressive in the scrum.  But as I didn't post this anywhere, hard to prove.

I actually thought Edinburgh played better in the 2nd leg, as we actually had a few breaks and played a bit of rugby.  I know more tries were scored in the first leg, but they came from intercepts, whereas in the 2nd leg there was a lot more intent to pass the ball about.

I'm surprised Glasgow didn't try something (anything) different from the first leg as they just seemed to play right into Edinburgh's defense.

Not sure if it's been discussed here, but is Johnny Gray's Scotland spot under threat?  I would say over the two legs he's been outplayed by Gilco & Toolis.  Don't get me wrong I think he's got a lot of credit in the bank with Scotland and he's great at what he does, but I just wonder if Gilco & Toolis offer more.

Also I still don't see what Wilson brings to a team, other than giving away penalties.

I'm trying to think of something positive to say about Glasgow's game, but to be honest I can't think of anything.  The problem they have is it's their backs that make Glasgow look good.  If you starve them of ball then the backs look average, and as the pack was outplayed from 1-8 by Edinburgh, so there is little to talk about in a positive sense.  With that said Horne brought some enthusiasm and speed into the game when he came on, which was probably lacking beforehand.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:40 pm

The Glasgow forum is a strange place. They seem to enjoy fighting with each other as much as they do with Edinburgh.

What is more amusing is that some Edinburgh fans also post there regularly presumably as EWT says, because nothing ever goes on in their own forum and they like the banter.

The Glasgow pack has played pretty well this year on the whole and has not been found lacking in most of our big games. I suppose that is a credit to the Luvies that they subdued it so comprehensively.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:49 pm

Jonny Gray really hasn’t been looking the player we know he can be, but I think once he’s back alongside a good pack (i.e 7 Edinburgh players plus him Cool ) he’ll quickly start to look a lot better again. I wouldn’t say Toolis or Gilchrist on paper offer more than he does, but they’re certainly in better form right now

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Post by EWT Spoons on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 10:56 pm

BigGee wrote:The Glasgow forum is a strange place. They seem to enjoy fighting with each other as much as they do with Edinburgh.

What is more amusing is that some Edinburgh fans also post there regularly  presumably  as EWT says, because nothing ever goes on in their own forum and they like the banter.

The Glasgow pack has played pretty well this year on the whole and has not been found lacking in most of our big games. I suppose that is a credit to the Luvies that they subdued it so comprehensively.

I suppose on the pack, they normally have either Brown or Turner in the front row and whilst he might go on to be a great player Stewart is a long way shy of that currently. As you say though I also think a lot of credit needs to go to Edinburgh. There seems to be a lot of hand wringing and moaning from Rennie and some Glasgow fans (not here) about how Edinburgh were cheating in the scrum in both legs. But if two separate refs are pinging Glasgow and giving Edinburgh pens etc at the scrum, then it suggests maybe Glasgow are at fault. So from that point of view I don't imagine many fans will be upset to see the back of Humpries.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:03 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Jonny Gray really hasn’t been looking the player we know he can be, but I think once he’s back alongside a good pack (i.e 7 Edinburgh players plus him Cool ) he’ll quickly start to look a lot better again. I wouldn’t say Toolis or Gilchrist on paper offer more than he does, but they’re certainly in better form right now

But on paper what does Gray offer that the others don't? Tackling? He certainly used to offer quite a lot around the ruck as well, but I've not seen as much from him recently.

In the two Edinburgh lads, they maybe don't offer as much in the way of tackling (still do a lot) but they are very good at the lineout (helps playing with McInally throwing) they also make yards with the ball in hand. Think Toolis made a couple of decent breaks in both games.

To be clear, I'm not saying drop Gray for them, I just think Gray needs a break or reinvigorated again to find the form he showed in the previous seasons, as currently I wonder if he's suffering a bit from being overworked or is bored. Maybe (and this won't be popular) a change of club for him to give him a different environment, somewhere where he needs to work again to get into the side, rather than being one of the first names on the teamsheet.

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Post by Eejit on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:24 pm

BigGee wrote:The Glasgow forum is a strange place. They seem to enjoy fighting with each other as much as they do with Edinburgh.

What is more amusing is that some Edinburgh fans also post there regularly  presumably  as EWT says, because nothing ever goes on in their own forum and they like the banter.

The Glasgow pack has played pretty well this year on the whole and has not been found lacking in most of our big games. I suppose that is a credit to the Luvies that they subdued it so comprehensively.

I’ve never encountered rude people quite like the loonies that inhabit the Glasgow forum. Its full of complete pricks. Best to just stay here I reckon.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 9:10 am

I think alot has to do with Cockerill.  Glasgow struggle against physically defence focused teams.  That is Cockerill's team style to a tee.  These two games will probably have a bigger impact on how Rennie plays Sarries, because what he did the last two weekends won't work so he needs a new approach. Blessing in disguise for the bigger picture. Also being 1st place knowing that 1 or 2 teams are just behind them will keep the mind focused unlike last year where they were so far ahead I think they got ahead of themselves a little.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 9:17 am

Brendan wrote:I think alot has to do with Cockerill.  Glasgow struggle against physically defence focused teams.  That is Cockerill's team style to a tee.  These two games will probably have a bigger impact on how Rennie plays Sarries, because what he did the last two weekends won't work so he needs a new approach. Blessing in disguise for the bigger picture.  Also being 1st place knowing that 1 or 2 teams are just behind them will keep the mind focused unlike last year where they were so far ahead I think they got ahead of themselves a little.

I am kind of hoping that is the case.

For whatever reason, Edinburgh do seem to have the hex on us, not just this year, even before when they really were poor.

We have been playing well this season, but also have won a few games just a bit to easily and had not had to work very hard for it. We have also taken our foot well off the gas when we were winning easily as well. There was also the Kings fiasco, when we only turned up in the last 15 mins and the game was already gone.

So if we did think that it was going to be an easy run in to a home semi final, then we really do need to think again and maybe a sharp kick up the backside, that we got over these two games may well pay dividends over the rest of the season.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 9:22 am

Ickle Jonny doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would do this, but could it be a case that he's gotten comfy and complacent?

No one is going to take his Glasgow spot, and has he now gotten to a place where he's thinking no one will take his Scotland spot either?

Maybe he's just gotten a bit older and wiser and instead fo going at things 100% all the time and burning out/getting injured, he's now only going 90% to keep a bit in the tank?

Currently, if I was the scotland coach looking to pick the best players for my team, it would be Gilcho and Toolis to start with Jonny on the bench. Now, to ensure that bias is not coming into play, in the last Lions tour I had Jonny being picked ahead of the aging other prince of Wales, AWJ. If the lions tour was next week, I'd pick the old duffer over Jonny at the moment. Now thats saying something if I pick an aging Welshman over one of our own!!!
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Post by RDW on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 10:13 am

Eejit wrote:
BigGee wrote:The Glasgow forum is a strange place. They seem to enjoy fighting with each other as much as they do with Edinburgh.

What is more amusing is that some Edinburgh fans also post there regularly  presumably  as EWT says, because nothing ever goes on in their own forum and they like the banter.

The Glasgow pack has played pretty well this year on the whole and has not been found lacking in most of our big games. I suppose that is a credit to the Luvies that they subdued it so comprehensively.

I’ve never encountered rude people quite like the loonies that inhabit the Glasgow forum. Its full of complete pricks. Best to just stay here I reckon.
I've always like you Eejit!  Hug

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 10:23 am

Actually, TT that is pretty much how I, and I think a number of Glasgow fans, feel. Second row is a strange position in many ways. The best I can do to explain the Jonny -AWJ conundrum is to paraphrase Jimmy Boyle's A Sense Of Freedom. When talking about the gang-fights he was involved in as a youngster (imagine! Gang- fights in Glasgow!!!) he mentions that unfailingly if the other gang's leader battered your leader then everyone in your gang lost heart and believed they would lose the ensuing rammy. Now, in every rugby team I have played for there was a captain and a hard man, not always the same person, and as long as the hardman was malkying the opposition everyone felt safe. If the hardman got flattened quite often the team lost heart...and then the match. When I watch the O's or Wales there is no doubt that AWJ "puts himself about a bit". Not necessarily in a dirty or illegal way, more in an in your face confrontational way. Jonny just doesn't do that. Which is probably why DR signed Gibbins...and made Batman co-captain. Maybe it's just not in his nature/

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 11:57 am

Agreed, I think Jonny is missing a big nasty bugger next to him in the Glasgow 'row to bring out the best of him. At the moment it seems like he's being relied on to bring too much of the grunt by himself (Harley and Swinson for all the good stuff they do, you wouldn't really describe as being second row brutes), and it looks like he's struggling with it - as Jimbo says probably just not who he is. Get out there and find a big hard, confrontational b@stard to play alongside him and let Jonny play his game and he'll start to shine again

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 12:09 pm

I know Jonny isnt an "abbrasive" character, but surely, as its not in his character, then he'd never have been like that so why is his perceived lack of form currently being discussed?

Its almost as if he is either A: carrying a small injury (think Cornell Du Preez's fall from grace) or B: He's just not playing to his full potential and there's a mental issue

Jonny has never been a dirty player but has always been an honest, workhorse of a 2nd row. His intensity seems to have fallen away slightly and as we know in the world of pro sport, if you're not hitting 100%, you get left behind.
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Post by BigGee on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 1:01 pm

I think 'lack of form' is probably a bit strong when talking about JG.

I bet if you looked at his tracking figures and his stats, he is still right up there. He is most certainly not playing badly.

In the last two games, what we really saw was how Toolis and Gilchrist raised their games and played as well as, if not better than him. They are both pushing for an international spot and a WC place and are doing a really good job, but talk of Johny's demise is premature I feel. He is still very consistenly excellent for the Warriors and for Scotland in doing what he does.

His contract is up next year though and it may be time for him to have a good think about what to do next. He is young enough to defer a difficult call for another couple of years should he wish, but he may want to cash in as well. The way he plays, he gets battered every game and it surely will take it's toll in the end. The problem will be that he won't be getting any less battered if he was to move elsewhere, just getting paid more money for it. If career longevity is his aim, he might be better to stay at home.

Either way, I am almost certain that he will sit out next weeks trip to Italy. Maybe a good rest will re-juvinate him. It has been a tough 4 weeks and he has pretty much played all of it.

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Post by RDW on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 4:31 pm

Excellent end of year summary from the offside line

https://theoffsideline.com/the-offside-lines-end-of-year-awards-for-2018/

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 7:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Excellent end of year summary from the offside line

https://theoffsideline.com/the-offside-lines-end-of-year-awards-for-2018/

Oh god. Glove will be around soon to toot his trumpet on getting an award.

Lovely to see Ryan Wilson getting a wee award (only silverware he’ll be getting)

Do we do our end of year awards at the end of the season?
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Post by jimbopip on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 7:19 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Excellent end of year summary from the offside line

https://theoffsideline.com/the-offside-lines-end-of-year-awards-for-2018/

Oh god. Glove will be around soon to toot his trumpet on getting an award. As Gore Vidal said, "Every time a friend succeeds I die a little inside."

Lovely to see Ryan Wilson getting a wee award (only silverware he’ll be getting) It would have been funnier if he had been runner-up in the Being Ryan Wilson Award.

Do we do our end of year awards at the end of the season?
That's right TT; we do the end of season awards in late December...just like the Luvvies!

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Post by RDW on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 7:23 pm

I have asked glove to stop by and say hello even though he's a big shot now!

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 31 Dec 2018, 8:00 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I have asked glove to stop by and say hello simply because he's a big shot now!

Jealous? Moi ?

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Post by George Carlin on Tue 01 Jan 2019, 6:35 pm

Sorry - travelling to Lebanon and back with the family since 16 December and just back in Doobers now. Well done to Edinburgh. Didn't see any of the games so I have no idea what to make about this but I am now officially worried Glasgow for the rest of the season and officially encouraged about what sort of 6 Nations Scotland could have.

Happy Hogmanay to all of you lunatics.
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Post by tigertattie on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 10:03 am

George Carlin wrote:Sorry - travelling to Lebanon and back with the family since 16 December and just back in Doobers now. Well done to Edinburgh. Didn't see any of the games so I have no idea what to make about this but I am now officially worried Glasgow for the rest of the season and officially encouraged about what sort of 6 Nations Scotland could have.

Happy Hogmanay to all of you lunatics.

We've missed you GC. The place has fallen apart while you were away - Admin boy is of no use as you know!

The 6 Nations will likely be the Edinburgh Pack with the Glasgow backs (plus a sprinkling of Wee greeg, Dancer and No Maits). There's no point watching the games back as they really were pretty unentertaining. The story was basically Edinburgh forwards won both games. Edinburgh's backs didnt do much (just VDM mk 2 showing his pace on interceptions). Glasgow's backs looked to spice things up but the Glasgow pack were as insipid as semolina pudding so there was no platform.

Jimbo will likely throw out a counter arguement (as he does), but I think we're looking at

Dell, McInally, Nel
Gilchirst, Toolis/Gray (yes really, its' 50/50 between Toolis and Gray - Toolis is the form player, Gray has Scotland credit in the bank)
Ritchie, Barclay, Watson (maybe Blade Thomson in the mix)

Wee Greeg, Dancer
No Maits, Horne/Scott (12), Huw, Tennesee Tam, Hogg

Horne the faster is a possible option to Wee Greeg, but I think Captain Cool has his place pretty much nailed down at the mo. Inside Centre is a debate as many think Horne the slower is a rugby god, many think he's a decent club player but can't make the step up to international.

The Backrow is Hamish nailed down but 6 and 8 are up for grabs. Ritchie plays better at 7 than at 6 but he's a great player with a future and currently beats anyone else playing at 6. Barclay is to come back after a long lay off but pretty sure he'll slot back in. Blade needs to be capped in readiness for the World cup.
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 10:38 am

Excuse the flagrant disregard for the club/international section divide (tigertattie started it your honour!), but is anyone heading out to Japan for the world cup? I've got tickets for 2 of our group games and am ridiculously excited about the whole thing!

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 10:45 am

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Excuse the flagrant disregard for the club/international section divide (tigertattie started it your honour!), but is anyone heading out to Japan for the world cup? I've got tickets for 2 of our group games and am ridiculously excited about the whole thing!

I was wanting to go but pals I have that are into rugby can't afford it, and my brother who seems to love all things Japanese, doesnt want to go (I'd have thought he'd had loved it but there you go)

I can see why my pals wouldn't afford it, some of the packages are absolutely outrageous!
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 10:54 am

Our flights were very expensive as we didn't fancy the more reasonably priced options that made it a journey of over 30 hours, presumably with many hours spent waiting in random airports along the way!

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Post by EST on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 11:29 am

I toyed with the idea of going, as Japan is top of my hit list in terms of countries to visit, but couldn't justify the cost just now.

I went to the 2011 WC in NZ, and despite the awful showing served up by the Scotland team at the time, it was one of the best trips I have ever been on.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 12:04 pm

Cheapest direct return flight I can find is Heathrow to Tokyo for £840 with BA (11hr 40mins) which isnt too bad.

You can get 1 stop flights where you either stop at Bangkok or the like (theres even one from heathrow to to Frankfurt to Tokyo). Via Hong Kong at 19hours long for £551 is a feckin good deal to be fair.

the package deals are monsterous though! For a full package of England games with (QF, SF and final tickets) is 21 grand! Thats a years wage for someone on minimum living wage. No wonder rugby still has an image of toffs on tour with a pricetag like that!

Only FES could afford that package.

If you look for a bargain, you can get a package for the first two pool games for Scotland only at the bargain price of 6 grand! Fookin wow!!!

I have no idea how much a ticket will be for games. Silly money most likly! I beleive these go on sale to the general plebs sometime this month!
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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 12:19 pm

EST wrote:I toyed with the idea of going, as Japan is top of my hit list in terms of countries to visit, but couldn't justify the cost just now.

I went to the 2011 WC in NZ, and despite the awful showing served up by the Scotland team at the time, it was one of the best trips I have ever been on.

I was there too - other than being in Wellington in the pishing rain watching Scotland lose to Argentina it was the best trip of our lives!

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 12:24 pm

We just bought individual match tickets for 2 games through the ballot, I got into the early access ballot rounds just by signing up to a mailing list. The tickets for the Scotland v Samoa match were £70 each, we've also got tickets for the Ireland game but not sure how much we paid for them

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Post by RDW on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 7:24 pm

https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/1080442999325233152?s=19

Some incredible stats about VDM #1

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 9:06 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/1080442999325233152?s=19

Some incredible stats about VDM #1

I dont think I saw any reply to a question I posted.

Is VDM (the one currnetly scoring tries) signed as a "project player"? He's as lethal as Tim Visser but less of a jessie.
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Post by RDW on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 9:19 am

There's no official 'project players' but he's he's on track to qualify on residency - end of next season i think. He signed when it was still 3 years.

Perfect timing to fill the void left by Maitland and Seymour around that time. He does need to work on his defence and high balls though!

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Post by EST on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 9:25 am

Those stats are pretty impressive, going forward he is lethal - he is rapid for such a big bloke and has pretty quick feet. I'm surprised Montpellier let him go, and even more surprised Edinburgh managed to pick him up.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 10:12 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:There's no official 'project players' but he's he's on track to qualify on residency - end of next season i think. He signed when it was still 3 years.

Perfect timing to fill the void left by Maitland and Seymour around that time. He does need to work on his defence and high balls though!

I know its symantics but there must be official project players such as Shoemann.

If memory serves, Cornell Du Preez and Nel were "project players". It was a case of "Come put your name in for Scotland and we'll give you a contract at Edinburgh" whereas Tim Visser was "Come and play for Edinburgh and if you are good enough you might get to play for Scotland after a while"

Chicken and egg kinda thing!

VDM (the try scoring one) is a pretty handy player. It's not as if it's a wee month or two of form as he was handy as hell last season too when our backs were even less of a threat.
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Post by EST on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 10:22 am

It's probably worth saying that for a long time the Edinburgh backs default position was, 'give the ball to VDM', often he is getting the ball without any space having been made for him, and he is expected to make something out of nothing, which makes the above stats even more impressive.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 10:32 am

I think since it moved to 5 years project players aren't as common. I don't think Shoeman was signed as a project player, but he's made it clear he wants to become SQ. But given the time involved a lot could happen between now and then.

Worth noting is these stats for VDM are for 2018 which included last season, where the tactics was as EST says was "give it to VDM" so does explain why they are so good. As he's been far less involved this season.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 10:53 am

VDM is pretty deadly when he gets the ball in space, but still need to do a lot of work to become international class. As it was said, Visser was much the same, but ended up being a lot less effective internationally where big fast wingers are a lot more common and often they have other facets to their game and often they defend well.

Amongst the other things he needs to work on is his work rate. If you compare him and Graham for instance, the little fellow is popping up everywhere looking for the ball, whereas VDM mainly stays out on his wing and waits for the ball to come to him. Niko is the same as Graham for Glasgow and that unpredictability gives them an edge against defenders.

Someone with VDMs size and opace should be taking a lot more first phase ball and trucking it up, just like North often does for Wales. You don't see that from him, at least not yet. Still, he has plenty of time on his hands to improve and he will have to if he wants to maintain those kind of stats now that defences know all about him.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 11:09 am

I think someone once said (might have been here) if you put Graham's work-rate/mindset into VDM (or if Darcy had VDM's physique) you'd have a hell of a player.

I do wonder if VDM is being told to stay out on his wing, he just seems so reluctant to come looking for work, that I wonder if he's under instruction to be out wide.

Despite being massive, he's still a young man (23) so plenty of time for him to develop his game and hopefully he'll improve his work-rate etc.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 12:25 pm

I don't fully undertsand the facets of wing tactics. I was a roaming forward and was told to chase after the person with the ball (or if you had a bit intelligence, get ready to chase the person about to get the ball).

If I were a coach though, I'd probably want one winger to go running about looking for the ball but I'd want the other winger to stay out wide to keep the width. If both go up the middle looking for work, you suddenly find you have no wingers???

Maybe Admin Boy can give us his insights into the "don't get my shirt dirty" position in rugby.
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Post by RDW on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 12:54 pm

Given the number of standout tries he's scored down the left wing - either running round the defence or through them - I'm not surprised he's being told to stay out wide. There's no point having him burried under a ruck when there's an overlap opportunity to be had, especially given we're lacking strike players in the backs generally, plus we've already got big carriers in the forwards.

Saying that it's all about balance, and there's no doubt he should be getting involved in strike moves off first phase. Problem is, under Hodge our strike moves have generally been awful!

The likes of Stockdale show there is still a place in international rugby for out and out finishers - if he was burried under a ruck he wouldn't have been in the position to score that try against England.

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Post by RDW on Thu 03 Jan 2019, 3:30 pm

https://scrummagazine.com/mcinally-refutes-scrum-criticism/

Mcinally laughing off Rennie's scrum comments

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 11:13 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:https://scrummagazine.com/mcinally-refutes-scrum-criticism/

Mcinally laughing off Rennie's scrum comments

Old Rodney Rennie needs some more media training if this quote was actually uttered by his lips

"I’m not going to grizzle about the refereeing, but we weren’t happy with the way it was refereed"

So you're not going to moan about the ref but then you moan about the ref! Nice one Rodney!
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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 12:25 pm

Looks like Newcastle are continuing their tradition of picking up young boarders lads. Andrew Mitchell is turning out for their academy team this weekend. He looks a real talent. I hope he's not lost to the Scottish game. Especially as Cameron Redpath and a few other young scottish lads are included in the England u20 squad

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Post by BigGee on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 12:38 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Looks like Newcastle are continuing their tradition of picking up young boarders lads.  Andrew Mitchell is turning out for their academy team this weekend.  He looks a real talent.  I hope he's not lost to the Scottish game.  Especially as Cameron Redpath and a few other young scottish lads are included in the England u20 squad

He has been playing in the Scottish age grade teams this season, so maybe just checking out his options before deciding which academy to join, he is only 17. He may well be in the U20s for us this year as well. Hard to imagine that coming from Hawick he would play for England, that is forbidden on their birth certificates I believe!

Bill McLaren would turn in his grave!

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Post by BigGee on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 12:39 pm

In other news, Dave Rennie signs on at Glasgow for at least another year.

A good move to have that continuity, all our signings are going well at the moment.

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