SIX NATIONS OPENING MATCH - France vs Wales Stade de France - 1st February 2019

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 02 Jan 2019, 9:47 am

First topic message reminder :

France: Maxime Medard; Damian Penaud, Wesley Fofana, Romain Ntamack, Yohann Huget; Camille Lopez, Morgan Parra; Jefferson Poirot, Guilhem Guirado, Uini Atonio; Sébastien Vahaamahina, Paul Willemse, Wenceslas Lauret, Arthur Itturia, Louis Picamoles.

Reps: Julien Marchand, Dany Priso, Demba Bamba, Felix Lambey, Gregory Alldritt, Baptiste Serin, Gael Fickou, Geoffrey Doumayrou.



Wales: Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Gareth Anscombe, Tomos Williams; Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Adam Beard, Alun Wyn Jones; Josh Navidi, Justin Tipuric, Ross Moriarty.

Reps: Elliot Dee, Wyn Jones, Samson Lee, Cory Hill, Aaron Wainwright, Gareth Davies, Dan Biggar, Owen Watkin.



Last edited by maestegmafia on Wed 30 Jan 2019, 11:57 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 2:23 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Intesting to see so many people writing Wales and France’s performance and chances off this morning.

Definitely not writing off wales. They are favorites now because the will get much better but the were poor.

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Post by The Oracle on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 2:32 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Just a mention about North’s interception try. Thinking about it that bid by him to catch the interception took some massive balls! In the first half he made a mistake by coming in off his wing and targeting the wrong man, and that let the man past for the try. So I’m guessing Gats would have had a harsh word with him at half time, and Gats said post match that he was disappointed with that defensive lapse. So to go for that intercept, knowing full well that if it just goes out of his reach and over his hands it will end up in French hands on the wing and for a likely score themselves, that took some balls I think. A calculated risk but one that could have gone horribly wrong too clap

In those conditions not an easy catch either, he juggled it a bit as he raced away.


Edit: I’ve just watched it again. In my memory it was much deeper in Wales’ half. Just outside the 22 in my mind! But watching it back he caught it much closer of the half way line than I thought and I think Wales had plenty of cover had it gone to a French player. Still, took some balls and if he hadn’t done for that we may well have lost the game as that score put us back in the lead.
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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 2:39 pm

Not just that - if his slap doesn't go to hand, he's off for 10 minutes, which means penalty into Welsh 22, momentum has swung momentarily back to France, and Wales are defending with 14 until full time.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 2:45 pm

Slap? The pass was literally floated into North's bread basket. Easiest intercept in six nations history.

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 2:52 pm

I know George is a big boy, and could presumably put away a lot of bread were he so inclined to break the modern rugby player's diet and go yeast crazy, but not sure his basket's that big...

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Post by maestegmafia on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 3:13 pm

They just showed that try again, definitely not bread basket. Great intercept that won the game.

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 3:13 pm

Watching the highlights again. Huget's try. Not saying North isn't massively at fault - he is - but also, Anscombe is very, very passive in the tackle. He was at fault for overrunning the first, so maybe decided to hesitate, but he's so passive in actually getting to his man, let alone making the tackle, that you can see why North steps in. A weak 10 against a powerful flanker - the tackle isn't guaranteed. North's defence isn't good, but you can see why he steps in. Mistakes are never a one person thing in rugby - question marks over Anscombe's defence, definitely, considering how good Biggar is in that area.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 3:14 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I know as you get older, time seems to go faster, but this year it is getting ridiculous, Christmas again already!

Only saw the last 10 of the first half and all the second half so I cannot comment on how well France played for the first thirty, but the pundits seem to think they got it right and dominated the Welsh.

The second half, the Welsh pack came back into it, but they did not look that dangerous and seemed to be quite well contained by France, a lot of ball but not much field position. Williams scored a good try, although tthe tacking will be looked at very closely, it should never have got as far as Williams, then Christmas arrived, Huget gave North a Christmas present he will never forget and it was followed by an even bigger present from Vahaamahina, with a full line of backs, a lock forward tries to throw a long loopy pass over the top, and ends up passing into space which allows North to just run onto it.

Even then, France should have won it, the number of dropped passes and knock ons that they made when they had breached the first line and could have flooded through was astounding.

Well done Wales for taking the game, but I cannot help but think that France lost that one, not Wales won it.

From and English and Irish perspective, I saw nothing that would worry me.

Wales crossed the ry line five times two tries disallowed both on rather subjective decisions and that was agreed by impartial Paul O’Connell.

POC agreed that Williams had lost the ball forward before the line.

As to second one Barnes blew as soon as AWJ took out the Frenchman and before Moriarty went through the gap. It was a clear penalty offence and similar to one given again at Genge at Scarlets. That it probably had no impact on the play made it a pretty dim penalty to concede. Kind of thing I am more used to seeing from English players.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 3:15 pm

I’d start Anscombe against Italy maybe Bench for Evans?

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 3:16 pm

maestegmafia wrote:They just showed that try again, definitely not bread basket. Great intercept that won the game.

It was a brave decision and yes ultimately a match winning one. Still feel there were perhaps a dozen Welsh players more deserving of motm

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Post by LordDowlais on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 3:17 pm

Can somebody please take a look at Picamoles 1st try ?

From where I was, I dont think it should have been allowed. Need to see it again, but it looked as though he lead with his shoulder whilst running at Liam Williams and made contact, although it may have looked a lot worse than it did.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 4:13 pm

Surely we see ball carriers dropping the shoulder multiple times in a game? Only thing that gets penalised is leading with the forearm. That no commentator mentioned it suggests there was nothing out of the ordinary.

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Post by Scarpia on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 4:23 pm

I agree. North and Wales were gifted one try when the Frenchman dropped the ball. An interception try is not a gift. The interceptor has to anticipate the pass, position himself correctly and catch the ball cleanly at pace.

France were only 16 points clear at half time because they took advantage when Wales played so poorly. Not like a team that had an Autumn Grand Slam. In the second half the roles were reversed. France were terrible and Wales took advantage.

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Post by Scarpia on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 4:25 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:They just showed that try again, definitely not bread basket. Great intercept that won the game.

It was a brave decision and yes ultimately a match winning one. Still feel there were perhaps a dozen Welsh players more deserving of motm

Navidi or Tipuric for me

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Post by Goosestepper on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 5:15 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Goosestepper wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Goosestepper wrote:My god that was the most biased referee display I have ever seen.... Scrum feeds, off sides, taking players out before they were in the ruck, the entire Welsh team should go buy lotto tickets right now

Scrum feeds yes. I assume with the offsides and constant fouls around the ruck you mean France? Funny how every one of our threads has this anti-welsh biased garbage all over it.

Glad you agree on the scrum feeds (so no bias there then)

Both teams constantly off side without being pinged, however the last ten minutes when France were having a crack Wales were pretty blatant with it(and why not if Barnes is allowing it...) France gifted Wales the second half, they were lucky to get out with a win (not unlike Ireland last year).

I don’t think you can discredit the welsh performance that much GS. They weren’t lucky they adapted to the game and knew the French would tire. Thus Wales grew into the game.

A few decisions went against both sides, the refereeing was not immaculate but neither were the conditions. Torrential rain and minus temperatures have a huge impact on both the teams and the referee.

Underestimating either team on a game played in those weather conditions would be a big mistake.


Not underestimating Wales, they're my pick for the title this year, however not on the basis of the first half of that game... France went to custard in the 2nd half and made some huge mistakes that Wales capitalised on. The scrum feeds were ridiculous though

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 8:44 pm

Still your pick for the title after the game tonight...?

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Post by Goosestepper on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 9:08 pm

miaow wrote:Still your pick for the title after the game tonight...?

I don't normally post on this forum but I have been saying I though England had a very good Autumn series and had a good chance of winning in Dublin. Ireland tried to make it 3 in a row using the same tactics albeit with a risky positional shift.... England prep'd well (john Mitchell the difference?) and Ireland had no answer

I think England were head an shoulders the best team this weekend, they did seem to have a couple of injuries today though so will be interesting to see how they shape up.

Funnily enough Ireland 1-15 weren't dreadful (Earls aside maybe but he didn't have the 2nd half to make up for it) however Scotland will be up for it next week - Still anyones tournament at this point but England in pole position Very Happy


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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 9:21 pm

Goosestepper wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Goosestepper wrote:My god that was the most biased referee display I have ever seen.... Scrum feeds, off sides, taking players out before they were in the ruck, the entire Welsh team should go buy lotto tickets right now

Scrum feeds yes. I assume with the offsides and constant fouls around the ruck you mean France? Funny how every one of our threads has this anti-welsh biased garbage all over it.

Glad you agree on the scrum feeds (so no bias there then)

Both teams constantly off side without being pinged, however the last ten minutes when France were having a crack Wales were pretty blatant with it(and why not if Barnes is allowing it...) France gifted Wales the second half, they were lucky to get out with a win (not unlike Ireland last year).

No bias from me ever. France were blatant with the offside for the entire game. Barnes allowed that as well as allowing them to be off their feet at the breakdown, and also allowed Willemse to interfere with our 9 illegally - this doesn’t get mentioned though, funny that. France rode their luck in the first half, Wales woke up in the second. Wales went for the fourth try but bolloxed up the lineout- we were good enough in defence (as per) to keep them out, nothing lucky about that. Quit crying because you look like a nugget.

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 9:22 pm

So Wales aren't your pick for the title then!? Don't blame you. Still hoping they'll do what they have been doing for the last few years and shock England and Ireland's power with their running game in the second half. But it's a big ask - both teams look good, Ireland less so tonight.

Big issue at 12 for Wales. Parkes has done well, and had a great start to his test career, but he is limited. Ireland and England have a similar model - Aki and Tuilagi playing alongsid good footballers in Slade and Ringrose. Obviously prone to change, but those are 2 good combos. JD2 is undroppable, and a great centre with a good all round skillset, but Parkes is limited - strong, reliable, yes. But not a good distributor, not a great kicker, and not hugely strong. Perhaps the biggest one though is pace: he's not quick enough. Up against an Aki or a Tuilagi that lack of explosiveness is key. When facing someone like Slade, not having someone in the midfield comfortable at distributing the ball in a 'second wave' of attack will be a deficit.

Parkes is too easy to read, telegraphs his passing too easily, and is being rushed and intercepted at club level as a consequence. Wales have to look at Watkin at 12 against Italy - not so much for this 6Ns, but for the RWC. Give him the minutes. I'd honestly want Scott Williams back in the team for the England game as I think he's got a nice mix of solidity- not great hands, but physical strength and good pace, even if not as quick as he was.

No other position looks weak for Wales. Perhaps 2nd row and the lineout will be exposed against Ireland and maybe England, but there's time to fix that and I don't think it's as fundamentally 'untreatable' as something like Parkes' lack of physical and skill based attributes.

I do like Parkes though. Think he's a solid addition. Just doesn't offer enough for Wales in the back play, particularly when you think Anscombe is flaky/is better at running for himself, and Biggar is pretty poor with ball in hand too.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 9:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Wales were poor, totally gifted the win by hopeless France and a bit of help from their guardian angel Barnes.

Where-as Ireland get battered (like today) when Glen Jackson doesn’t gift them the game. I’m glad Wales are avoiding Jackson this year. Awful ref.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 9:25 pm

Wales need to change 9, 10 and 12 based on that performance. Parkes has been poor for ages now. I’m not seeing it with Moriarty at 8 either, maybe it’s just me. I guess these guys will get another chance against poor old Italy though.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 9:40 pm

The one thing i don't get with Wales is Halfpenny is injured/out of the game. And they (Wales) put Biggar on the bench.

Hascombe is a good player, but surely you wan't/need your best players starting the game.

Biggar is a far better 10 than Hascombe, Hascombe is better off on the bench.

I know Wales won, but only because France became complacent and gifted Wales the game rather than Wales do something remarkable to turn the game about.

It is obvious to any one with a bit of sence Wales game really improved when Biggar came on.

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 9:53 pm

Hascombe - is that a Hal Luscombe/Gareth Anscombe, qualified-through-residency-and-parent mash-up?

Just joking Hug

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 02 Feb 2019, 10:13 pm

miaow wrote:Hascombe - is that a Hal Luscombe/Gareth Anscombe, qualified-through-residency-and-parent mash-up?

Just joking Hug 

I never could pronounce his name right. Let alone spell it. kiss

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 03 Feb 2019, 8:29 am

Be quite nice to forget about a few things from Friday and move forward...

http://www.606v2.com/t68405-italy-vs-wales-in-rome-match-2

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Post by Pie on Sun 03 Feb 2019, 3:38 pm

Anscombe, Hascombe I dont care...he has to go

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 03 Feb 2019, 8:26 pm

Pie wrote:Anscombe, Hascombe I dont care...he has to go

He has had bad games playing behind a pack who are struggling before and has not been dropped.

Gatland and the coaches need to help him improve not discard him.

The weather was a massive factor in the performance.


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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 9:32 am

This forum is very amusing at times, it really is.

Wales get two tries, one from a fumble and one from an interception and they were gifted, and down to ineptitude, England get two tries, one from an interception and one from a fumble and it is down to world class pressure.

Only on V2. Rolling Eyes

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:16 am

LordDowlais wrote:This forum is very amusing at times, it really is.

Wales get two tries, one from a fumble and one from an interception and they were gifted, and down to ineptitude, England get two tries, one from an interception and one from a fumble and it is down to world class pressure.

Only on V2. Rolling Eyes

Must be in relation to the opposition both teams played. France have a weaker standing than Ireland

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Post by munkian on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:24 am

Scarpia wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:They just showed that try again, definitely not bread basket. Great intercept that won the game.

It was a brave decision and yes ultimately a match winning one. Still feel there were perhaps a dozen Welsh players more deserving of motm

Navidi or Tipuric for me

Could have gone to any other our backrowers - they all put in a massive shift, especially Moriarty who hasn't played for months.
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Post by dummy_half on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 1:20 pm

MotM often goes to the try scorers, but what else did North do all day? Only saw the 2nd half (and the 1st half tries), but it looked like you had about 3 Tipuric's on the field through that half (a bit like we used to have at least 2 Robshaw clones). Best (relatively) small #7 in the world at the moment, and Friday showed him doing everything he does in terms of breakdown work and linking play.

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Post by Pie on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 2:25 pm

North frustrates

He is a big lump but very fragile

Super experienced with 80 caps but makes schoolboy errors

Obviously very strong but lacks aggression

Scores tries but is poor defensively

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Post by miaow on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 4:23 pm

Disagree about North. Think he's played really well for Wales in the last 12 months. Definitely a much more rounded player than we've seen during the 'hype' years.

Still tackles with his fingers at times, but his aerial game looks to have improved massively. I think there were mitigating circumstances - Anscombe being lazy/non-committal - that played a part in him rushing up for Huget's try. He's not a great defender, but he's not Cuthbert levels of inept.

More than that though is his general game awareness - that seems to have come on since he went to England (and then came back so he wasn't half injured all the time). No more running down blind alleys - even when he's not scoring 50m tries, he's using his footwork and strength in tight channels to make a few yards and retain possession.

Think you're being a bit harsh on him. I haven't seen a poor performance for Wales from North for a while. I think he needs to be involved more generally speaking, as do all the outside backs, but that's not necessarily his fault specifically.

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