F1 2019 season

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Mon 07 Jan 2019, 10:36 am

First topic message reminder :

Felt like a new season deserves a new thread...

It's reported in Italy that Maurizio Arrivabene has been fired. His strained relationship with Ferrari's prized asset Sebastian Vettel and cost him his job. Arrivabene got one last dig at Vettel though by replacing Raikkonen with LeClerc.

Mattia Binotto will be confirmed as new team boss

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Post by GSC on Sun 23 Jun 2019, 3:59 pm

It already is a long and boring season. Imagine Ricciardo will get 5 seconds for the only incident of the whole race. Sums it up.
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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 23 Jun 2019, 4:10 pm

GSC wrote:It already is a long and boring season. Imagine Ricciardo will get 5 seconds for the only incident of the whole race. Sums it up.
Ricciardo received two 5 second penalties so was relegated to 11th place.

1 HAM Mercedes  01:24:31.198
2 BOT Mercedes  01:24:49.254
3 LEC Ferrari .... 01:24:50.183
4 VPN Red Bull . 01:25:06.103
5 VET Ferrari ...  01:25:33.994
6 SAI McLaren .. 01:26:06.660
7 RIC Renault ..... Lapped
7 RAI Alfa Romeo  Lapped
8 HUL Renault .... Lapped
9 NOR McLaren . Lapped
10 GAS Red Bull . Lapped

Shame for Norris - easily had 7th place until a mechanical (slow loss of hydraulic pressure) greatly affected the car and its drivability eventually dropping from 7th to 10th 9th in the last lap.  

Hamilton eventually comfortably beats Bottas, Leclerc comfortably beats Vettel and Verstappen was sort of on his own with Gasly far down the field.  

Leclerc was a few laps away from passing Bottas with the Mercedes having trouble with blistering on the hard tyres.  

Raikonnen back in the points after no points for a few races.  

Four Three Renault engines in the points.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 23 Jun 2019, 9:10 pm

Bleh. Another snooze fest for the most part. Top 5 remained static throughout the race (pitstops aside).

Only real action took place in the middle of the pack. Real shame for Norris about his hydraulic problem, meaning he couldn't use his DRS, had problems changing gear and eventually lost 3 places on the final lap.

Until that point it was very heartening to see the McLarens being pretty competitive. Hope it wasn't a one-off and that they have made some genuine progress.

Says everything that, once again, the most interesting thing was another controversial penalty decision. Personally I think Ricciardo was asking for trouble, the way he overtook Raikkonen, but I would also lay a lot of the blame on the people who re-designed the circuit.

Seriously, we need to go back to the good old days of grass / astroturf, gravel traps and tyre walls. Its the only way drivers are going to be made to respect the track limits. Vast expanses of gaudily-painted tarmac just looks ugly as hell anyway IMO.

Speaking of the "good old days", I was actually quite impressed with Vettel's post race interview with Billy Monger (also caught the C4 highlights specifically for the post-race analysis).

Billy is turning out to be one hell of a TV pundit...he conducts himself almost like he was born to be on TV.

Back to Seb, I totally agree with what he said (for once) about F1 needing major rule changes, both in terms of car design and to the race rules. Just hoping the changes for next season make a real difference, to every aspect of the sport.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 23 Jun 2019, 10:19 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Bleh. Another snooze fest for the most part. Top 5 remained static throughout the race (pitstops aside).

Only real action took place in the middle of the pack. Real shame for Norris about his hydraulic problem, meaning he couldn't use his DRS, had problems changing gear and eventually lost 3 places on the final lap.

Until that point it was very heartening to see the McLarens being pretty competitive. Hope it wasn't a one-off and that they have made some genuine progress.

Says everything that, once again, the most interesting thing was another controversial penalty decision. Personally I think Ricciardo was asking for trouble, the way he overtook Raikkonen, but I would also lay a lot of the blame on the people who re-designed the circuit.

Seriously, we need to go back to the good old days of grass / astroturf, gravel traps and tyre walls. Its the only way drivers are going to be made to respect the track limits. Vast expanses of gaudily-painted tarmac just looks ugly as hell anyway IMO.

Speaking of the "good old days", I was actually quite impressed with Vettel's post race interview with Billy Monger (also caught the C4 highlights specifically for the post-race analysis).

Billy is turning out to be one hell of a TV pundit...he conducts himself almost like he was born to be on TV.

Back to Seb, I totally agree with what he said (for once) about F1 needing major rule changes, both in terms of car design and to the race rules. Just hoping the changes for next season make a real difference, to every aspect of the sport.

Just purely on the McLaren's it is clear they have improved a heck of a lot this season. They stand fourth in the Constructors Championship and are now quite a regular fixture in the top ten in qualifying and are edging closer to Red Bull's level. For the first time in a number of years they have some momentum.
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Post by Just John on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 9:15 am

Certainly improvement at McLaren, but as Norris said, it’s only a small step. RB have always had relatively weak qualifying pace, but more importantly, Sainz ended over a minute behind Verstappen on Sunday, which is the barometer for RB, not the god-awful, Gasly. So it just shows how far McLaren still have to go.

As for the driver market this winter, I’m expecting a massive overhaul. Bottas, Kubica, Gasly, and Grosjean, are all on borrowed time.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 9:41 am

Just John wrote:Certainly improvement at McLaren, but as Norris said, it’s only a small step. RB have always had relatively weak qualifying pace, but more importantly, Sainz ended over a minute behind Verstappen on Sunday, which is the barometer for RB, not the god-awful, Gasly. So it just shows how far McLaren still have to go.

As for the driver market this winter, I’m expecting a massive overhaul. Bottas, Kubica, Gasly, and Grosjean, are all on borrowed time.

My point is considering where they have been in the last three or four years they have made huge steps. They had been floundering at the back of the grid where often both cars would go out in first session of qualifying or they'd perhaps manage the odd sorte into the top 16 or very rarely into the top ten and points were extremely rare. This season they have catapulted up into a place where it is becoming quite regular for both cars to make it into final quali and scoring points is becoming the norm hence they stand fourth in the Constructor's Championship. Sure they still have big steps to take to becoming podium challengers and race winners again but they are a great deal closer to it than they have been in recent years and they still seem to be improving.

As to the driver's market I think Bottas will stay put. Kubica should never have got the drive in the first place and was purely based on sentimentality judging by how rookie Russell is so much faster than him ans should be replaced. Gasly is another who could face the axe or demotion with Alex Albon perhaps taking his place. As for Grosjean the jury is out.
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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:26 pm

With regard to Kubica, though he has been outperformed regularly by Russell, he might be providing the team with valuable technical feedback that helps the team improve.  In general Kubica did do well in testing and sufficiently so to allow Williams to chose him as one of their racing drivers.  At the moment the problem is not with Kubica but with the awful car they have to drive.  The Williams have really fallen since the 2014 & 2015 seasons where they finished third in the constructors championship, then fifth in the 2016 & 2017 seasons, then last in the 2018 season and then oblivion at the start of this season.

I think the biggest concern is with Gasly even factoring in the fact that Verstappen is one of the very best drivers in the field - and seems to be maximising the Red Bull's potential.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 2:29 pm

Daniel Ticktum has been sacked by Red Bull, the young Brit was also sacked by his Super GT team earlier this week after his performances left a lot to be desired.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 12:34 pm

Austria Grand Prix:  Leclerc has looked the sharpest and fastest in the practice sessions and certainly seems more comfortable than Vettel.  Outside of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, the McLarens look to be the best of the rest. The Williams are of course still rooted at the back of the pack.

Carlos Sainz (along with Albon) will be starting at the back because they have exceeded the number of allowable changes in engine units for this season.

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Post by Just John on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 3:01 pm

Red Bull Ring providing some real good action this weekend, a complete contrast to, Paul Ricard.

Leclerc in Pole
Hamilton in 2nd (pending investigation)
Verstappen in 3rd
Bottas in 4th
Vettel in 10th (mechanical issue)

Ferrari starting the race on softs, whereas Mercedes/Verstappen will start on the mediums. Hamilton also under investigation for blocking Raikkonen

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 3:05 pm

LeClerc destroyed them just like in Bahrain and as he should've done in Baku.

Hamilton stonewall penalty...but considering the incompetence of the FIA half expecting LeClerc to get a penalty

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 3:19 pm

Leclerc breaks the track record in the process.

Final Qualifying:
1) Charles Leclerc Ferrari 1:03.003  
2) Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:03.262  
3) Max Verstappen Red Bull 1:03.439  
4) Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:03.537  
5) Kevin Magnussen Haas 1:04.072  
6) Lando Norris McLaren 1:04.099  
7) Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo 1:04.166  
8) Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo 1:04.179  
9) Pierre Gasly Red Bull 1:04.199  
10) Sebastian Vettel Ferrari no time

Outside the top three teams ... Magnussen managed to be best of the rest at 5th (with Red Bull's Gasly in 9th and not getting near Verstappen), then Norris, then the Alfa Romeos.

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Post by Just John on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 5:04 pm

Three place grid penalty for Hamilton. Starts 5th. I’d imagine Verstappen is all elbows at T1 on Leclerc

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Post by GSC on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 5:11 pm

Hamilton gets 3 places, Vettel doesn't even run in Q3 and Bottas still isnt on the front row
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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 5:15 pm

I assume the penalty given to Hamilton was a result of a team error - his team should have told him earlier that there was someone on a fast lap behind him.  It is not easy - Hamilton just couldn't be on that corner and not impede Raikonnen - Hamilton drove off across the track as there was no run off on the inside - but Raikonnen had to abort for safety reasons. I assume Hamilton couldn't slam on the breaks before the corner because that would have ruined the fresh tyres he was on.

So with various grid penalties the starting order tomorrow is:

1. Charles Leclerc (Ferrari)
2. Max Verstappen (Red Bull)

3. Valtteri Bottas (Mercedes)
4. Lando Norris (McLaren)

5. Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes)
6. Kimi Raikkonen (Alfa Romeo)

7. Antonio Giovianzzi (Alfa Romeo)
8. Pierre Gasly (Red Bull)

9. Sebastian Vettel (Ferrari)
10. Kevin Magnussen (Haas)

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 5:24 pm

FIA must've been gutted to dish out that penalty...

Unless LeClerc screws up the start Verstappen isn't gonna get passed. LeClerc starting on the faster tyres and incredible straight line speed

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 5:26 pm

Assuming no engine problems for Leclerc everything is pointing towards a Leclerc win. Verstappen will want to impress on his teams home track but his car isn't as fast as the Ferraris and Mercedes. Last year both Mercedes failed to finish the race due to engine failure.

The start is going to be interesting - I don't think Verstappen will want Bottas to overtake him off the starting line - but I guess that is what Bottas will be aiming for.

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Post by GSC on Sat 29 Jun 2019, 7:38 pm

Depends if they let Bottas jump the start again

Hamilton is 4th because Magnusson in 5th took a gear box penalty and that apparently makes sense
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 11:30 am

Apparently it’s even hotter in Austria today, hopefully it increases the action. Hopefully we see more pit stops as well

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 12:55 pm

Great job by Leclerc - just hope his engine holds out today. Will have to watch Verstappen at the start, but if he can stay ahead for the first couple of laps, Ferrari's engine power should take him clear.

Unfortunate penalty for Lewis, but it doesn't look like it will cost him too much. Expect Bottas will be told to let him past at some point, if their pace is similar. Don't expect they will be allowed to race with the prospect of a Ferrari win.

Amazing quali by Magnussen...such a shame about his penalty. Would love to see Norris maintain his start place, but don't realistically see it happening.

Also a big surprise to see both Alfas in the top 10. Can they stay there?
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Post by Just John on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 2:38 pm

Typical Ferrari foul up in the pits

Front wing change costs Hamilton. Lecclerc looking comfortable

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 2:51 pm

Hamilton breaks his front wing under no pressure lol

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:15 pm

Hamilton in order to gain time / run quicker was cutting a few of the corners whilst leading - but the high curbs resulted in him damaging the front wing - he thought he could get away with it. So his race was compromised - and lost around 10 seconds, but he was otherwise heading for third place (everything else being equal). So far Verstappen is flying while Leclerc seems to be driving conservatively.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:19 pm

It seems that the Mercedes are having temperature issues. Not sure what happened with regard to Vettel having to take a second pit stop. Verstappen has just overtaken Bottas into second. So we have Leclerc leading Verstappen by five seconds. Shame about Verstappens sloppy start - but now he seems to be the quickest car on track.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:22 pm

Vettel went for the fastest lap seems to have killed the tyres though

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:26 pm

Verstappen is going to be lapping his team mate Pierre Gasly ...

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:30 pm

Gasly holding up Leclerc - Verstappen less than a second behind Leclerc. Now both Leclerc and Verstappen are past Gasly and fighting for the race win.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:34 pm

Proper racing ... but some are claiming it should be something for the Stewards ...

Meanwhile Vettel passes Hamilton.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:34 pm

Verstappen hits LeClerc

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:35 pm

That's a stonewall penalty

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Post by Just John on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:36 pm

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Not even worth debating

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:38 pm

Hamilton back to being pathetic. What a loser

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Post by Marky on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:41 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Hamilton back to being pathetic. What a loser

Yep. Taking 10 points away from a race with a damaged car on a track that suits his rivals more. What a loser.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:44 pm

Marky wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Hamilton back to being pathetic. What a loser

Yep. Taking 10 points away from a race with a damaged car on a track that suits his rivals more. What a loser.
Broke his front wing by cutting the corners. Yep a cheat and he got his punishment

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Post by Marky on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:49 pm

Was actually the outside of the corner, due to sliding wide, hardly cheating when you go wider around a bend Laugh

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Post by GSC on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:51 pm

I would rather that wasnt a penalty, but by the standards of the last 2 races, Max pretty clearly shoves him off the track to make the overtake...
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Post by Marky on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:53 pm

Max was already ahead, Leclerc then tried to go around the outside like he did the lap before but without the space.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:53 pm

I think Hamilton has shown some carelessness and a bit too casual (lacking precision) in both qualifying (grid penalty) and then when he was pushing when he found himself leading.  

Overall it seems that Ferrari brought in Leclerc too early for the first pit stop - he ended up on the hard tyres for too long and lost pace to Verstappen.

Mercedes had issues with the high temperature and Vettel caught and overtook Hamilton and was close to Bottas at the end despite taking an extra pit stop.

Team and Driver of the day has to be Verstappen - Red Bull - despite Verstappen's "disastrous" start - and despite the result being pending a Steward's investigation - which some are saying is a penalty according to precedent (and the rule book) whilst others are saying it should be considered a racing incident.

McLaren followed by Alfa-Romea were the best of the rest.  Renault, Racing Point, Haas and of course Williams finished out of the points.

So result pending a stewards investigation:
1) Max Verstappen Red Bull (also got the fastest lap)
2) Charles Leclerc Ferrari +2.724
3) Valtteri Bottas Mercedes +18.960
4) Sebastian Vettel Ferrari +19.610
5) Lewis Hamilton Mercedes +22.805
6) Lando Norris McLaren lapped
7) Pierre Gasly Red Bull lapped
8) Carlos Sainz McLaren lapped
9) Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo lapped
10) Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo lapped


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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:54 pm

Marky wrote:Was actually the outside of the corner, due to sliding wide, hardly cheating when you go wider around a bend Laugh
If it was a wall there he wouldn’t be pushing his luck

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:55 pm

Marky wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Hamilton back to being pathetic. What a loser

Yep. Taking 10 points away from a race with a damaged car on a track that suits his rivals more. What a loser.


Just ignore him - he's just a sad Hamilton-hating troll. His comments aren't even worth reading. Just block him like I did and you won't have to read the crap he spouts.


As to the race - I'm not overly happy about the way Verstappen passed Leclerc, but to be honest it was pretty inevitable. The Red Bull was on rails through the corners and just seemed to have more pace than the Ferraris. In fact it seemed like Max was driving a completely different car to everyone else today. Amazing comeback after botching his start and dropping from 2nd to 9th.

Very hard on Charles to have another seemingly nailed-on victory* snatched from his grasp, but thats just how it goes sometimes. His time will come sooner rather than later.

Just want to pay tribute to both drivers on an absolutely epic duel. Some of the best driving I've seen for some time and was the cherry on a cake of a race that was the complete opposite of the French snore-fest.

I guess Mercedes were long overdue an off-day and today they had one. Seems they were suffering overheating and tyre issues...not to mention Hamilton's broken front wing.

* pending result of stewards' investigation


Another great drive by Lando Norris...a couple of brief but exciting duels with Hamilton & Vettel in the opening laps. Managed to hold off Gasly and both Alfas to come in 6th. Possibly benefitted from Sainz stopping very late and having too much ground to make up to catch him. Norris looking very mature and composed for his age. Just hope he gets a good car under him sooner rather than later.


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Post by GSC on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:55 pm

Max is never fully ahead, he has to leave LeClerc room, he forced off track fully.

Personally have no issue, it's a hard move but that's racing. By the standards recently though, it's a penalty
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Post by Marky on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 3:58 pm

GSC wrote:Max is never fully ahead, he has to leave LeClerc room, he forced off track fully.

At the apex, Max is slightly ahead, and on the racing line. I think that'll be the key factor.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:02 pm

GSC wrote:Max is never fully ahead, he has to leave LeClerc room, he forced off track fully.

Personally have no issue, it's a hard move but that's racing. By the standards recently though, it's a penalty

Its one of those 50/50 things. Sometimes they award penalties, sometimes they don't. By the letter of the law it probably is a penalty, but the stewards aren't always consistent.

Personally I don't like it when drivers squeeze a rival right off the track...there's no need for it IMO. But in this instance it was only a matter of time before Max got past, so I don't think it should affect the race result.
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Post by GSC on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:02 pm

Its judged on the entire move (entry, apex, exit), (or it was, who knows these days) so you have to give a position back if you run wide on the exit when making a move etc. To me, it's a lot more black and white than the Vettel/Hamilton incident when they made a judgement Vettel was in control when blocking.

As I say, I'd leave it on track but you cant decide week to week what standard to apply
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Post by Marky on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:07 pm

I suspect the stewards are waiting for the Dutch fans to go home before they announce a penalty for Max Laugh

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Post by GSC on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:15 pm

Yeah that this is taking so long doesn't seem to be a good sign...
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:16 pm

Marky wrote:I suspect the stewards are waiting for the Dutch fans to go home before they announce a penalty for Max Laugh

I wouldn't blame them! Laugh Gonna catch the C4 highlights - hopefully a decision will have been made by then.

Think it would be harsh in this case, but it wouldn't be the first time...
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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:19 pm

It would be extremely unfortunate if in two consecutive F1 races that the race winner - or at least the car that took the chequered flag was demoted through penalties.   It would be especially disappointing in this race - when finally we got a proper race with lots of overtaking - compared to previous races which were processions - with many many complaining F1 had become boring. Verstappen clearly was the fastest car on track - and everyone knows that the design of the cars, the tracks and issues with the tyres has made overtaking difficult.


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Post by GSC on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:21 pm

https://twitter.com/Insidef1/status/1145349810892894209?s=19

Probably the key angle, he only gets ahead because he isnt going to leave space. Based on that, I'm not sure the dutch fans are going to be happy
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Post by GSC on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 4:23 pm

Max summoned to the stewards in about 45 minutes
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