F1 2019 season

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Mon 07 Jan 2019, 10:36 am

First topic message reminder :

Felt like a new season deserves a new thread...

It's reported in Italy that Maurizio Arrivabene has been fired. His strained relationship with Ferrari's prized asset Sebastian Vettel and cost him his job. Arrivabene got one last dig at Vettel though by replacing Raikkonen with LeClerc.

Mattia Binotto will be confirmed as new team boss

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:36 pm

For whatever reason it seems that Hamilton Mercedes have been the fastest car, and Verstappen the second fastest car. As it stands though it looks like Verstappen should win this - as long as his second set of tyres don't expire.

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Post by Just John on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:36 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Mercedes are getting their strategy wrong.

No their not. Had nothing to lose, either finish second, or roll the dice, and try and make a pass at the end. Hamilton wasn’t going to be able to overtake, it’s nigh on impossible, without a serious tyre advantage around here.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:41 pm

No I think if Hamilton had stayed out later on his first set of tyres and then attacked towards the latter part of the race when Verstappens second set of tyres would have been older - then Hamilton could have got the win.

ps Gasly has been lapped by Verstappen.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:42 pm

Anyway Verstappen is reporting his tyres are dead. So he probably needs to pit. The alternative is for Hamilton and Verstappen to collide and no-one getting any points.

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Post by Just John on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:43 pm

Yessssssss!!! Get in there, Lewis

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:43 pm

The con artist lucks out again.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:45 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:The con artist lucks out again.

Summer holidays?

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:46 pm

So Hamilton is in the lead and Verstappen can take a second pit stop and come out still second.

But I think Hamilton would have won following my tactics - given Verstappen greater tyre wear (he had to pit early on lap 26).

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Post by Just John on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:46 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Max on pole and showing he’s hunting down that world championship

You were saying?

Lewis Hamilton wins the Hungarian GP Laugh

Absolute strategical masterclass from Mercedes, this week.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:47 pm

So Verstappen pits and comes out second - 40 seconds ahead of the Ferraris.


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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:50 pm

Just John wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Max on pole and showing he’s hunting down that world championship

You were saying?

Lewis Hamilton wins the Hungarian GP Laugh

Absolute strategical masterclass from Mercedes, this week.
Pipe down you fool. Hamilton is a bum only pretends to be decent if his car is faster. The real Hamilton was the bum continually crashing into Massa and getting destroyed by Button.

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Post by Marky on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:50 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Well Hamilton did have the tyre advantage but has lost it with these tactics and has gone in for a second pit stop.  Mercedes are getting their strategy wrong.

Good call

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:51 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:The con artist lucks out again.

Summer holidays?
Hammersmith Harrier the Billy no mates with 7-8 accounts as your pathetic life revolves around this forum. Jog on you loser.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:52 pm

Vettel pitted much later than Leclerc - and so was able to overtake Leclerc towards the latter part of the race as his tyres were less worn. Vettel third, Leclerc fourth.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:54 pm

Max Verstappen is only 7 points off Bottas in the overall standings after 12 races.

So we now have the summer break followed by 9 more races.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 3:54 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
Just John wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Max on pole and showing he’s hunting down that world championship

You were saying?

Lewis Hamilton wins the Hungarian GP Laugh

Absolute strategical masterclass from Mercedes, this week.
Pipe down you fool. Hamilton is a bum only pretends to be decent if his car is faster. The real Hamilton was the bum continually crashing into Massa and getting destroyed by Button.

He'll be a six time world champion come year end so who's the real bum, the great sportsmen or the keyboard warrior?

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 4:00 pm

Final position

1) Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2) Max Verstappen Red Bull..... +17.796  (+ extra point for fastest lap time)
3) Sebastian Vettel Ferrari....... +1:01.433
4) Charles Leclerc Ferrari........ +1:05.250
5) Carlos Sainz McLaren......... +1 lap
6) Pierre Gasly Red Bull......... +1 lap
7) Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo +1 lap
8) Valtteri Bottas Mercedes.... +1 lap  
9) Lando Norris McLaren........ +1 lap
10) Alexander Albon Toro Rosso +1 lap

So eventually Hamilton bounces back after a dreadful Mercedes result in Germany. Bottas lost it early in the race locking up and damaging his front wing - but maybe could have done better than 8th.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 4:09 pm

Overall Hamilton - Mercedes had the fastest car, and Verstappen -Red Bull had the second fastest car.  Verstappen was wearing out his tyres at a faster rate than Hamilton.

The Ferraris were way back - but this track is not a power track - so suits them less.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 4:29 pm

Overall drivers standings after 12 races (9 races to go)
1).. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes.....  250
2).. Valtteri Bottas Mercedes......  188
3).. Max Verstappen Red Bull.....  181
4).. Sebastian Vettel Ferrari....... 156
5).. Charles Leclerc Ferrari ........ 132
6).. Pierre Gasly Red Bull............  63
7).. Carlos Sainz Jnr McLaren......  58
8).. Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo.... 31
9).. Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso......... 27
10) Lando Norris McLaren............ 24
11) Daniel Ricciardo Renault........ 22
12) Lance Stroll Racing Point....... 18
13) Kevin Magnussen Haas......... 18
14) Nico Hulkenberg Renault....... 17
15) Alexander Albon Toro Rosso.. 16
16) Sergio Perez Racing Point...... 13
17) Romain Grosjean Haas........... 8
18) Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo 1
19) Robert Kubica Williams.......... 1
20) George Russell Williams......... 0

It is almost incredible that Pierre Gasly is only 5 points ahead of the McLaren of Carlos Sainz.

As yet the penalty rule for exceeding the number of allowable engine changes has yet to kick in for the main teams - but will surely impact on the Red Bulls at some point towards the end of this season.

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Post by GSC on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 4:34 pm

In the end Mercedes were free to roll the dice with 2nd place secured, RB couldnt pull the trigger first and Lewis forced Max into a pace he couldnt sustain. shame for Max but it happens
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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 7:06 pm

In the pre-race press conference of team principals - I was surprised by the discomfort Christian Horner had in responding to a question asking if Mercedes had approached him about the availability of Verstappen and whether he thought it would be good for the sport to have both Verstappen and Hamilton in the same car. Horner was quite defensive in his response - saying Toto Wolff hadn't spoken to him personally or the Red Bull team - but that Toto Wolff speaks to nearly all racing drivers on the grid and if there had have been a conversation then it would have been direct (with Verstappen or his agent). Toto Wolff wasn't there to comment - but it seems to me that Christian Horner was expressing a fear that Verstappen might be poached by Mercedes.

This comes at a time when there was speculation / gossip that Verstappen could soon be moving to Mercedes.  It seems that Verstappens contract with Red Bull last until the end of 2020 - but there is a loop hole that Verstappen could leave at the end of 2019 for another team if he doesn't finish in the top three in this years drivers championship.  

Hence it seems it would have been possible for Mercedes to sign Verstappen for 2020 if Verstappen doesn't finish in the top three this year - but that possibility seems unlikely now.  But nevertheless it is still possible for Mercedes to sign Verstappen for 2021.  However that is a long way away and there will be new regulations for 2021 which may change the pecking order of the teams.  Also Verstappen may want to stay with Red Bull beyond 2020 given how Honda have upped their game.

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Post by GSC on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 7:27 pm

verstappen had to dnf and Vettel win the race today for the clause to get him out his contract this year.

Merc wouldnt want Hamilton and Verstappen in the same car, I imagine the interest is in him replacing Hamilton eventually. Cheaper and probably more effective in the drivers championship to either have Bottas or an academy driver as #2
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 7:59 pm

GSC wrote:verstappen had to dnf and Vettel win the race today for the clause to get him out his contract this year.

Merc wouldnt want Hamilton and Verstappen in the same car, I imagine the interest is in him replacing Hamilton eventually. Cheaper and probably more effective in the drivers championship to either have Bottas or an academy driver as #2

I totally agree.

Teams just do not operate with two potential World Champions in the same team. A clash of egos and splitting the team's interests causes far too much problems. In short both drivers want and expect to win the title but it can't happen. Those sorts of drivers won't play second fiddle to anybody.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 8:49 pm

Ah well...no top step on the podium for Max today, though it wasn't for want of trying.

Pretty good race on a circuit not known for overtaking. Nice duel between the Toro Rossos and some brief wheel to wheel action between Verstappen & Hamilton - the Dutchman coming out on top when the tyres were equal.

Congrats to Mercedes for a good strategy call in going with 2 stops. Was it on the fly or did they work out the hard tyres would reach the cliff wall with a few laps to go? Either way it needed Hamilton to drive the wheels off his car to make it work, so a real team effort in getting the win today.

Bottas' place in the team has to be in doubt again after a poor start and failing to make up much ground after his pit stop.

Despite not converting his pole it was still a great drive by Max...nothing he could have done to stop Lewis passing him at the end, with no grip on his worn hard tyres, while Hamilton had much newer mediums. Red Bull just got out-thought on strategy. Still a good weekend with a podium for Max (plus fastest lap after a very late stop for soft tyres) and Gasly picking up 6th.

Another podium for Vettel - Ferrari putting their drivers on different strategies, so he was on better tyres than Leclerc at the end. Charles still only finished about 4 seconds behind though.

Both McLarens in the points again and another 5th place for Sainz - really great to see them continuing to make progress. Kimi picking up more points for Alfa. Kvyat going from hero to zero with an anonymous 15th place, after his podium at Hockenheim.


Be interesting to see if anything changes after the summer break...


CaledonianCraig wrote:
Teams just do not operate with two potential World Champions in the same team. A clash of egos and splitting the team's interests causes far too much problems. In short both drivers want and expect to win the title but it can't happen. Those sorts of drivers won't play second fiddle to anybody.

Yup. Mercedes learned that lesson the hard way with Hamilton & Rosberg.
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Post by GSC on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 9:05 pm

Rosberg was a #2 who acted like he was a #1. imagine how bad it would be with a legit #1 in Max
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 04 Aug 2019, 9:38 pm

The Vettel and Danny Ric pairing at Red Bull suffered as well because of this. Both thought they were No 1 and neither wanted to back down. It is a sure fire recipe for conflicts.
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Post by GSC on Mon 05 Aug 2019, 10:00 am

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1158298041864138752?s=19

some fun stuff, not least getting the sense that Seb is tired of Alonso sniping at him
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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 05 Aug 2019, 8:39 pm

It seems the problem with the Ferraris this year is that that they have got their aerodynamics design wrong - which probably means Ferrari supporters will have to wait for next years car to see a season long competitiveness.

Basically the front wing outer edge is too shallow which is not giving sufficient downforce on the front tyres to allow them to work properly.  But when they raise the outer-edges of the front wing to get more downforce on the front end of the car - then it destabilises the flow to the back of the car - and the rear becomes less stable.  Leclerc is better able to cope with a less stable rear end than Vettel.

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Post by Just John on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 11:34 am

Albon replaces Gasly at RB

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Post by GSC on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 11:35 am

good luck with that
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Post by Just John on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 11:52 am

Being dropped in mid-season against Max, is a great opportunity, but most likely a hiding to nothing. Might be short term pain, and long term gain for Kyvat, if Albon gets destroyed. I’d imagine Kyvat could still be in that RB in 2020, as long as he performs against, Gasly.

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Post by GSC on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 12:08 pm

ultimately its desperation because they dont have even a Ricciardo in reserve at the moment, let alone a Max or a Vettel type. so cycle them all in for 6 months and see what happens regardless of whether they're ready for it.

it's why they brought back Kvyat in the first place, and hes beating Albon
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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 12:58 pm

BBC wrote:Red Bull will replace French driver driver Pierre Gasly with Alexander Albon for the rest of the season.

Thai Albon, 23, has been promoted from the team's sister outfit, Toro Rosso, with Gasly going the other way.

Gasly, 23, is sixth in the championship with 63 points. Team-mate Max Verstappen is third with 181.

Red Bull say they will "use the next nine races to evaluate Alex's performance" and make a "decision as to who will drive alongside Max in 2020".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49317809

Basically Red Bull should be competing for second place in the constructors championship given Ferrari's aerodynamic difficulties with their car. So Red Bull are swapping Albon for Gasly and then will compare performances of Albon, Gasly & Kvyat.  Albon is being thrown in at the deep end - will he find his feet, survive ... thrive ... or go under (dive)?

Constructors Championship after 12 races
1) Mercedes 438
2) Ferrari.... 288
3) Red Bull.. 244
4) McLaren... 82

Drivers Championship after 12 races
1).. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes...... 250
2).. Valtteri Bottas Mercedes....... 188
3).. Max Verstappen Red Bull...... 181
4).. Sebastian Vettel Ferrari........ 156
5).. Charles Leclerc Ferrari ......... 132
6).. Pierre Gasly Red Bull............. 63
7).. Carlos Sainz Jnr McLaren....... 58
....................................................
9).. Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso......... 27
...................................................
15) Alexander Albon Toro Rosso... 16

ps If a driver such as Bottas becomes available at the end of this year, maybe Red Bull will choose him?

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Post by Just John on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 1:34 pm

Difficult for RB, as they’re looking for a driver to fill a specific, small window of performance. Quicker than Gasly, but, consistently, only 2 or 3 tenths off Max. Bottas would probably be the best option, if RB find themselves in a pickle, and Albon gets bent over, and Gasly starts beating Kyvat.

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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 2:07 pm

Red Bull on their twitter feed have put out a video trying to justify their decision - which shows Albon performing impressively at this years Chinese Grand Prix following a heavy crash in FP3 and starting the race from P20 and the pit lane.

https://twitter.com/redbullracing

Still this seems like a huge leap for Albon and I guess he has to find his feet immediately.

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Post by GSC on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 4:21 pm

they've ran out of quality options

same reason they had to put Hartley and Kvyat in...
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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 13 Aug 2019, 4:36 pm

Weird decision. Kvyat must have really pissed somebody off, not to get the nod.

IMO promoting Albon, is pretty much the same as keeping Gasly. I mean, he's even less experienced than Pierre, so this is going to be a real sink or swim 9 races.

Not that I rate Kvyat as a particularly good driver, but he is more experienced and seems to have a more stable head on his shoulders lately. I think he'd at least provide better consistency.

Wonder whats gone wrong at the Red Bull production line...no more suitable candidates coming through by the looks of it.


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Post by GSC on Tue 13 Aug 2019, 4:37 pm

cant really go from writing off Kvyat 12 months ago to putting him back in a race winning car
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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 13 Aug 2019, 4:47 pm

GSC wrote:cant really go from writing off Kvyat 12 months ago to putting him back in a race winning car

Wouldn't be the strangest thing thats happened in F1.

Also, if the cupboard really is that bare, talent wise, I'd still say he's the best of some fairly poor choices. Then again, Albon could surprise us all.

Plus RB aren't in contention for any titles this season and are just looking to Max to grab the odd win here and there. Suppose they can treat the 2nd seat as a development opportunity for the only other driver who hasn't had a shot yet.
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Post by No name Bertie on Tue 13 Aug 2019, 6:10 pm

Mercedes have Valterri Bottas (29 years), Esteban Ocon (22) and George Russell (21).  

A few races before the mid-season break Toto Wolff was saying they had a decision to make - suggesting if they kept Bottas for another two years they might have to release Esteban Ocon - to get him a drive somewhere.  Alternatively they might release Bottas.  So at the end of this year Red Bull may have some options to go with a non-home grown driver.  

It has been noted that Albon got onto the Red Bull’s junior programme in 2012 but was dropped after one year.  Then in Nov 2018 when he was all set to drive in Formula E for 2019 - he was appointed by Red Bull to drive for Torro Rosso in 2019.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 10:22 am

Auto Bild reporting that Mercedes have retained Valterri Bottas for 2020. Esteban Ocon will leave Mercedes to join Renault, thus meaning Nico Hulkenberg will be searching for a new team.

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Post by GSC on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 10:28 am

a decision in the best interests of Mercedes or Totos drivers
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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 12:30 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Mercedes have Valterri Bottas (29 years), Esteban Ocon (22) and George Russell (21).  

A few races before the mid-season break Toto Wolff was saying they had a decision to make - suggesting if they kept Bottas for another two years they might have to release Esteban Ocon - to get him a drive somewhere.  Alternatively they might release Bottas.  So at the end of this year Red Bull may have some options to go with a non-home grown driver.  

It has been noted that Albon got onto the Red Bull’s junior programme in 2012 but was dropped after one year.  Then in Nov 2018 when he was all set to drive in Formula E for 2019 - he was appointed by Red Bull to drive for Torro Rosso in 2019.


I'd like to see Ocon given a shot at Mercedes. Showed some promise with FI / Racing Point.

Bottas has been doing a decent job as #2. He's got some good results, without really challenging Hamilton's position in the team. Just lacking consistency and has some real off days. Ideally you'd want Ocon to be more consistent, but also not good enough to cause friction in the team.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 12:52 pm

Ocon couldn’t even beat Perez, whom is essentially the barometer of the midfield. Therefore Ocon isn’t worthy of the Mercedes seat. If Wolff wasn’t his manager, there really wouldn’t be any hype around Ocon.

George Russell will probably get the seat in 2021 and he’s a talent in the same ballpark as LeClerc and Verstappen

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Post by Just John on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 1:27 pm

Can see why the decision has been made. No reason to upset the apple cart, given both championships will be delivered once more. 4-0 to Hamilton over four seasons.

I think Hulkenberg knew the writing was on the wall a long time ago. Secured himself financially with that Renault contract, so it’s not the end of the world. Could never shift that non-podium monkey off his back, and that Hockenheim crash was probably the last nail in the coffin.

Imagine he might interest Haas, or he’ll end up returning to LeMans, or venture into FE.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 29 Aug 2019, 1:37 pm

Just been confirmed that 2020 will be a 22-race season. Germany will be dropped from the calendar, while Netherlands & Vietnam are added.

While the teams have given their consent for this, F1 bosses are looking to increase it further to a 24-race season, which would mean even more double headers, if the mid-season break & winter testing are to be retained.

Also wonder if this would lead to the regs being changed: either engines & components would have to be designed to last longer, or teams would be allowed to use more per season?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 29 Aug 2019, 2:24 pm

Zandvoort followed by Catalunya followed by Monaco...that'll be a fun month.
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Post by GSC on Thu 29 Aug 2019, 2:57 pm

on track overtakes might not reach double digits in May
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Post by No name Bertie on Thu 29 Aug 2019, 10:32 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:... 2020 will be a 22-race season ... F1 bosses are looking to increase it further to a 24-race season ... [/img]
They're trying to squeeze out as much money from the brand as possible. They might end up killing it. It will get more expensive, more demanding, teams that start the season dominant might end up winning 22 races in the season, could lead to more burn out of drivers and personell, less time to consider safety, increasing carbon footprint ...

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 30 Aug 2019, 8:42 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Zandvoort followed by Catalunya followed by Monaco...that'll be a fun month.

Heh. You noticed that too then. I swear the race calendar makes no sense at all, either from a track type perspective, or geographical location - necessitating lots of back-and-forth travel across the globe.



No name Bertie wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:... 2020 will be a 22-race season ... F1 bosses are looking to increase it further to a 24-race season ... [/img]
They're trying to squeeze out as much money from the brand as possible.  They might end up killing it.  It will get more expensive, more demanding, teams that start the season dominant might end up winning 22 races in the season, could lead to more burn out of drivers and personell, less time to consider safety, increasing carbon footprint ...

My thoughts too. More doesn't necessarily equal better...at least not until the 2021 regs take effect and we start to see better quality racing (fingers crossed).

Plus, as you say, costs to the teams will go up. Longer working year for the teams & factory staff. More miles for the drivers to clock up. More travel involved - bigger carbon footprint (so much for F1 trying to be eco-friendly).


But probably most importantly, are the fans going to get sick of it?

While I can see good attendances at Zandvoort (at least initially - may taper off if overtaking is as bad as we fear) but Vietnam has no history with F1. Will be surprised if it doesn't end up like China & Korea. Can't see them making much money there.
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