F1 2019 season

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:36 am

First topic message reminder :

Felt like a new season deserves a new thread...

It's reported in Italy that Maurizio Arrivabene has been fired. His strained relationship with Ferrari's prized asset Sebastian Vettel and cost him his job. Arrivabene got one last dig at Vettel though by replacing Raikkonen with LeClerc.

Mattia Binotto will be confirmed as new team boss

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:15 pm

Two weeks running Vettel showed he's quicker in the race than LeClerc and on both occasions LeClerc acted like a clown. LeClerc didn't give Vettel any help passing Hamilton, watch the start Vettel was passed before they reached the straight - he passed Hamilton on the kink. Vettel was on average 0.3 quicker on every lap. Ferrari embarrassed themselves by deciding a decent qualifying lap should supersede superior race pace. It's like the inmates are running the asylum. Qualifying is for show, racing brings home the bacon. As much as Hamilton didn't deserve the win, neither did LeClerc. 

Had Vettel not broken down he would repassed LeClerc as he was much quicker. 

Either LeClerc improves his race pace or he hopes that Ferrari screw over his teammate.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:37 pm

Just John wrote:Mercedes 1-2 in Russia. Lucked in to the result, but that’s sport. A worry for Ferrari in the reliability department, and Ferrari fighting themselves, likely to cost themselves going forward. Both WDC & WCC both in the bag for Mercedes now.

While luck certainly played a part, as far as the Safety Cars were concerned, I think you also have to give some credit to Mercedes' strategists, from quali and starting on mediums, to the timing of their stops.

Must admit I had forgotten how good Mercedes can be on strategy, when they don't have the performance to start at the front.

Sure Ferrari shot themselves in the foot by pitting Leclerc that last time, costing him track position, but I'm guessing they were counting on Mercedes struggling on their tyres towards the end...and tbh I'm surprised he wasn't able to get past Bottas.

I think Charles will think twice before agreeing to help a team mate in future...though from what I saw Vettel just got a really good start. Best thing really is not to have any team orders like that at the start and just let the drivers do their thing. It only causes bad blood later if/when they decide they quite like being in front.

Mind you, if anything would make you believe in karma, it has to be when Vettel retired with MGU-K failure.


Great result for Red Bull with Verstappen & Albon 4th and 5th (Alex redeeming himself very well after his crash in quali). Both McLarens in the points again, helping consolidate their 4th place in the constructors' standings.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:45 pm

^^^ look at this imbecile Laugh literally sounds like the Andrew Benson of 606v2. Unable to grasp the concept of racing.

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Post by dummy_half on Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:53 pm

The VSC and then Safety Car spoiled what would have been an intriguing end to the race - Lewis did a great job in the opening stint to keep Leclerc to about 3 seconds and Vettel never more than 7 s in front. If Bottas could have held up the Ferraris after their stops, Lewis on relatively fresh soft tyres later on would have been coming back at them - would have been like a GP2 race with runners on the opposing strategies.

Ferrari really should have pitted Vettel 2 or 3 laps sooner and let him race for the win, rather than engineer a false situation where he ended up behind both Leclerc and Bottas

Ferrari were wrong to make their team order, and Seb was right t0 ignore it as he had pace that Leclerc didn't in the first few laps and with Hamilton only a couple of seconds further down the road. Letting Leclerc past would have put Vettel too close to DRS range from Lewis.

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Post by Born Slippy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:59 pm

GSC wrote:be queuing up to criticise Ferrari but not entirely sure they did much wrong.

I don’t think they did much wrong. Not much a team can do when their number 2 driver goes rogue. Think they managed it skilfully by arranging the undercut. Hopefully they’ll keep better control over him for the rest of the season though.

After the VSC, they had to take the risk of pitting LeClerc. Didn’t work out but it was the right call.

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Post by No name Bertie on Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:00 am

Strategically Ferrari shot themselves in the foot in this race. Leclerc either had the option of giving Lewis Hamilton the tow or Sebastian Vettel. Strategically he gave Vettel the tow. The only thing Leclerc did was allow Vettel to pass, rather than block him - which would have lost time for the both of them. It was then clear that in the first stint Vettel was faster than Leclerc - he pulled away from Leclerc. Leclerc wanted Vettel to slow down so that he could pass him in the first stint - that would have been ridiculous. Instead they did the ridiculous thing of leaving Vettel out too long on degrading soft tyres to ensure Leclerc got the undercut - but the effect was the same in that Ferrari purposely wanted Vettel to lose time in his first stint - all that distance he had built up was lost.

In the end because of Vettels engine failure and the safety cars - the Mercedes got the undercut to Ferrari. So in the end it didn't "matter". Except in future Ferrari might need to reconsider the way they handle their two drivers. In the recent post summer break races, however, Ferrari have been on top of their game and it has been Mercedes that have been making mistakes. Although it is clear now that the Ferraris have the best engine and the best car.

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Post by GSC on Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:21 am

think if I can guess at a reasoned order for events.

Ferrari agreed overnight a strategy for getting Vettel ahead of Hamilton at T1. Part of this was if Vettel gets a run on LeClerc, LeClerc wont fight the overtake and cost them time to Hamilton. In exchange for LeClerc not fighting the move.

However with  Vettels launch, he likely would've been leading regardless into T1, and with the close proximity to Hamilton, a swap at that point wouldve needlessly brought Merc into the game.

So Vettel upped the pace to gap Hamilton, LeClerc didnt answer.

So Ferrari had LeClerc who felt he was entitled to the position because he didnt fight the move into T1, and Vettel who felt he wouldve led anyway and didnt want to swap positions within range of Hamilton.

It's a mess really, the clever thing wouldve just been to agree LeClerc gets the undercut and move on.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:07 pm

dummy_half wrote:The VSC and then Safety Car spoiled what would have been an intriguing end to the race - Lewis did a great job in the opening stint to keep Leclerc to about 3 seconds and Vettel never more than 7 s in front. If Bottas could have held up the Ferraris after their stops, Lewis on relatively fresh soft tyres later on would have been coming back at them - would have been like a GP2 race with runners on the opposing strategies.

[1] Ferrari really should have pitted Vettel 2 or 3 laps sooner and let him race for the win, rather than engineer a false situation where he ended up behind both Leclerc and Bottas

[2]Ferrari were wrong to make their team order, and Seb was right t0 ignore it as he had pace that Leclerc didn't in the first few laps and with Hamilton only a couple of seconds further down the road. Letting Leclerc past would have put Vettel too close to DRS range from Lewis.


[1] Punishment for ignoring team instructions REPEATEDLY. Doesn't matter whether you regard yourself as #1 or not (and based on performances, he really isn't). You ignore the team at your peril. Vettel made them look like idiots very publicly by blatantly ignoring their orders, so its not surprising they acted as they did.

[2]You do realise that without that pre-race agreement, Vettel may well not have got the tow that got him past Hamilton and Leclerc would not have left the door open for him to take the lead.

In order to have trust within the team and to make things like that work, both drivers have to honour their agreements.


As I said earlier, I don't agree with this kind of thing and think Ferrari were wrong to implement it in the first place...it inevitably leads to trouble. However, if the plan was discussed with the drivers and agreed upon, then they BOTH had a duty to do their bit.
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Post by Just John on Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:27 pm

Helmut Marko wading in : ‘‘Ferrari managed not to win despite having the fastest cars. And although he was the faster man, they sacrificed Sebastian. He has no future at Ferrari anymore.'

Tbh, it’s a mess, that was inevitably coming, as soon as Leclerc was quicker than Vettel in Bahrain. Ferrari invited this scenario, when they removed the comfort blanket of Räikkönen. They just look like a team, unaccustomed to such a scenario, having not been this competitive for donkey years, and now having two drivers, unwilling to play the #2 role.

Have to agree with, Marko. This isn’t solved, anytime soon, especially if both remain. Vettel has been crap for a while, and Leclerc is the future, so if one does have to leave, i’d expect it will be, Vettel. Not sure you can really challenge Hamilton, unless they have one dominant driver, next year. The only way you get away with having this problem, and allowing them to race, is if your car is dominant, and you don’t have to worry about the competition. Ferrari, don’t have that luxury.

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Post by No name Bertie on Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:12 pm

Leclerc has outqualified Vettel 9 times in a row since the Canadian Grand Prix.  He has shown he is better and braver in handling this Ferrari car than Vettel.  Vettel has been left in Leclerc's wake.  However, Vettel does seem to be fighting back now at least in the past two races.  Analysts suggest that Vettel although a great racing driver (four times Championship winner) is not particularly adaptable in getting the best out of all sorts of cars.  It has been Leclerc that seems to have got to grips with the 2019 Ferrari in terms of his driving style and it seems that it has been with Leclerc's feedback that Ferrari have been able to make the step-change improvement of the car since the summer break.  

To many it had seemed early on in this season Leclerc was the better driver for this car and that the Ferrari team were not getting the best results in terms of race strategy because they were favouring Vettel over Leclerc.  This is Leclerc's rookie season at Ferrari and his confidence and demands have grown.  He particularly has shown a step change in aggression following the Austrian Grand Prix (30 June 2019) when he was expecting Verstappen to receive a penalty when Verstappen aggressively overtook Leclerc for the win.

Vettel it seems has been somewhat sidelined as Ferrari recognise that Leclerc is more special than they had first imagined and are beginning to favour Leclerc now over Vettel and Leclerc is now acting as if he is their number one driver.   However, I think in the past two races he has become a little bit too demanding and expectant in the race situation.  But maybe this is just a reflection of Leclerc being a winner and future world drivers champion.

In the post race press conference in Russia - Hamilton said he had thought Leclerc was a four times grand prix winner.   Leclerc said he was exagerating Leclerc's abilities.  However Leclerc could have been a four times winner given the engine issue in Bahrain while leading, and given the debatable overtake of Verstappen at the Austrian grand prix, when Leclerc was leading (at that time Leclerc was unsure what levels of aggression was acceptible).

One wonders, if "this Leclerc" was at Ferrari in 2018, whether Ferrari might have won that drivers championships - Vettel and Ferrari seemed to lose their way in the back end of 2018.

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Post by Just John on Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:32 am

Qualifying cancelled until Sunday, four hours before the race. Given the FIA’s desire to spice things up, this probably could of been an excuse to just run a reverse championship grid, and seen how it panned out.


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Post by GSC on Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:38 pm

dont think that's plausible to throw in to an existing season, especially at the last minute
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Post by No name Bertie on Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:02 am

If qualifying is cancelled Sunday they will line up according to the order of fastest lap posted in Free Practice 2.  The weather conditions - wet ? and windy - makes it difficult to judge whether Mercedes have made any significant improvement with their aerodynamics  - in any case the changes are described as "small upgrades to the sidepods".  For next year Mercedes need to find more power in their engine as do Honda & Renault in order to compete with the Ferraris (seeing that Ferrari are now getting their act together in terms of drivers and aero).

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:28 am

GSC wrote:dont think that's plausible to throw in to an existing season, especially at the last minute

I dunno...given that the titles are pretty much sewn up, I don't see that it would really hurt anything. That said, none of the teams are in favour of reverse grids, so I can't see it being adopted any time soon. But, as a one-off event, it would spice up what is looking like a fairly pedestrian final leg of the season.

But, as Bertie said, looks like they will line up in FP2 order, which I suppose is as fair as they can make it under the circumstances. Though I did hear talk of quali being run Sunday morning. Dunno if they're still considering that.
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Post by Marky on Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:30 am

The official plan is 2am qualifying, 6:10am race (UK time, obviously), they won't make a final decision on qualifying until nearer the time depending on the potential damage.

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Post by GSC on Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:59 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:dont think that's plausible to throw in to an existing season, especially at the last minute

I dunno...given that the titles are pretty much sewn up, I don't see that it would really hurt anything. That said, none of the teams are in favour of reverse grids, so I can't see it being adopted any time soon. But, as a one-off event, it would spice up what is looking like a fairly pedestrian final leg of the season.

But, as Bertie said, looks like they will line up in FP2 order, which I suppose is as fair as they can make it under the circumstances. Though I did hear talk of quali being run Sunday morning. Dunno if they're still considering that.
the titles may be sewn up but teams are still fighting for positions and prize money.
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Post by Marky on Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:02 am

Mercedes-Benz breaking records again

6 doubles in a row is ridiculously good

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:46 am

Mercedes win both the constructors and drivers championships.  The BBC have so far missed that latter fact in their live web reporting and current articles on their sports webpage.  Only Hamilton and Bottas can win the drivers championship with four races to go.  Hamilton leads Bottas by 64 points in the drivers championship.  There is some suggestion that Hamilton didn't need to be pitted a second time -  but I am not sure given his first set of tyres didn't last that much longer than Bottas.

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Post by Just John on Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:25 am

Ferrari throwing away another front row lockout. The gift that keeps on giving.

Congrats to Mercedes on their sixth Constructors Championship in a row  clap

Depressing day for Verstappen & RB, with that engine upgrade failing to make any impact, with Albon finishing a minute behind Bottas.

As for the stewards, they seem to of just taken a completely relaxed approach now. Good to see hard racing, but I think Albon’s move on Norris crossed the line. Should of been penalised during the race, but Leclerc finally gets a 15 second penalty, post race, for his collision with Verstappen, and for failing to pit, with a damaged car.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:07 pm

Just when you thought Ferrari's comedy of errors was over... Laugh

But then I guess Seb isn't used to being on pole much lately. That said, Charles was pretty tardy with his start too.

Congrats to Bottas for nailing his start and leading from start to finish, helping to secure Mercedes' 6th title in a row, along with Hamilton's 3rd place. A new record I understand.

Some strange pit calls for Lewis, I felt, but I'm guessing the team were anxious to avoid any potential on-track shenanigans that might prolong clinching the constructor's trophy. Hopefully he and Valtteri will be free to race for the remainder of the season.

Decent recovery by Seb to take 2nd, but disappointed Charles further stuffed his race by hitting Verstappen at the first corner. Still not sure whether he intended to try and force Max wide, or if he just lost downforce & drifted. Finished 6th but demoted to 7th following penalties for the collision and not pitting after damaging his car (Hamilton got a face full of Ferrari wing after the end plate detached and flew into his car).

Good races for Albon, Sainz & Ricciardo...especially Daniel, after Renault's miserable showing in quali. Alex somehow managed to avoid a penalty for a late dive up the inside of Norris, resulting in a collision, but other than that, a solid performance. Nice to see the pair joking in interviews afterwards...hopefully no lingering ill feeling there.

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