2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

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2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 11:31 am


France v Wales
Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant 1: Matthew Carley (England)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

Scotland v Italy
Referee: Luke Pearce (England)
Assistant 1: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 2: Shuhei Kubo (Japan)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

Ireland v England
Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Scotland v Ireland
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 1: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

Italy v Wales
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant 2: Shuhei Kubo (Japan)
TMO: David Grashoff (England)

England v France
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

France v Scotland
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant 1: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

Wales v England
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

Italy v Ireland
Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant 2: Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

Scotland v Wales
Referee: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 1: Luke Pearce (England)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)

England v Italy
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant 1: Paul Williams (New Zealand)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

Ireland v France
Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 2: Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

Italy v France
Referee: Matthew Carley (England)
Assistant 1: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

Wales v Ireland
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant 2: Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)

England v Scotland
Referee: Paul Williams (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 12:30 pm

4 Frenchmen, 3 Englishmen and 1 Welshman get a game each, while 6 SH refs get 7 games, with Nic Berry the former Wasps scrum half the only guy to get two matches. Hope we get some consistency in decision making.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Brendan on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 1:00 pm

LondonTiger wrote:4 Frenchmen, 3 Englishmen and 1 Welshman get a game each, while 6 SH refs get 7 games, with Nic Berry the former Wasps scrum half the only guy to get two matches. Hope we get some consistency in decision making.

Is the reason for this so that at the WC the teams have some knowledge of the refs. As long as some new interpretations don't happen that mess current plans I'm not to pushed.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 1:13 pm

There are always SH refs in the 6 nations though.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by TightHEAD on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 4:41 pm

Is Nige about to retire?
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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 4:44 pm

I bet the French are delighted they've got Nige for their trip to Twickenham. I've never seen a French team get anything out of him (except when it's been a match between two French teams).

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by munkian on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 4:46 pm

Glad we have Barnes, one of the best refs out there.
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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 4:47 pm

He has definitely been kind to the Welsh alright.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by munkian on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 4:49 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:He has definitely been kind to the Welsh alright.

Karma for all the Poopie we put up with from Irish refs in the league.
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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 5:33 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I bet the French are delighted they've got Nige for their trip to Twickenham. I've never seen a French team get anything out of him (except when it's been a match between two French teams).

Never seen an English side get anything from him. I assume it will be the usual free for all at the breakdown.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 5:34 pm

munkian wrote:Glad we have Barnes, one of the best refs out there.

Only good ref in the premiership, so slightly alarmed that two other English refs have a game.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 5:53 pm

Pearce is good. Very good communicator same as Barnes.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 10:01 am

Someone needs to give Pearce a definition of the word forward.

At the weekend there was a pass that was yards forward.
The BT commentators were, shall we say, dubious and rightly so

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by nathan on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 12:14 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Someone needs to give Pearce a definition of the word forward.

At the weekend there was a pass that was yards forward.
The BT commentators were, shall we say, dubious and rightly so

who was running the line?

i always think they should take most of the blame for forward passes

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 12:17 pm

My gripe re forward passes this season are the inside balls usually made by 10 or 12. I swear 90% are forward (including a few by Leicester that were scoring passes) and seen but one called all season.

When you are running down the line at any speed your perspective gets skewed on what is and is not forward (unless there is a line to help you). Thus sometimes refs who are often moving more laterally may have a better view.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by maestegmafia on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 1:24 pm

LondonTiger wrote:My gripe re forward passes this season are the inside balls usually made by 10 or 12. I swear 90% are forward (including a few by Leicester that were scoring passes) and seen but one called all season.

When you are running down the line at any speed your perspective gets skewed on what is and is not forward (unless there is a line to help you). Thus sometimes refs who are often moving more laterally may have a better view.

Often see players over running the pass they are about take.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by rodders on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 1:51 pm

Have to say I strongly fancy Wales for the slam if they win in Paris.
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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 2:27 pm

I wouldn't be surprised either. They are due a win, its been about 5 or 6 years.

Id be most nervous for the Ireland v Wales game in Cardiff so Im glad that is the last game on the fixture list as it may be do or die at that stage.

6 nations organisers seem put the crunch match of the fixture list as the last game and I think that's what they have done in this case.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by munkian on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 3:26 pm

rodders wrote:Have to say I strongly fancy Wales for the slam if they win in Paris.

Quiet you Shocked
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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by the-goon on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 6:20 pm

Yeah, Wales are heavy favourites, I'm just happy Ireland are in comp in fairness.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by rodders on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:30 am

the-goon wrote:Yeah, Wales are heavy favourites, I'm just happy Ireland are in comp in fairness.

No I see Ireland starting as favorites but if you looks at the fixtures and how they fall, it's very easy to see Wales winning their remaining games if the beat France in Paris.

If they have a championship to play for on the final weekend, I think they are strong favorites in Cardiff to close out the title.

Ireland are well equipped to win again but it will be tougher than last season despite having England and France at home.
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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 5:24 pm

There's several degress of quality between the rugby being played in the provinces and that being played in the regions. Wales have done well over the last 12 months but it's entirely possible the wheels could come off at any moment with the way things have gone at the Scarlets this season, Ospreys last season, and Dragons always. Key positions (9, 12, 15) are either in horrible form or injured.

Wales deservedly go in as 3rd 'favourites' between Ireland and then England. I'd have Scotland a sliver ahead of France. Connor O'Shea has to make a mark this tournament, surely, and claim a win if he's to stay in the job.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Taylorman on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 9:43 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
6 nations organisers seem put the crunch match of the fixture list as the last game and I think that's what they have done in this case.

England Ireland is the crunch game and its first. It has been last in this sequence.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by The Oracle on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:08 pm

I blame those refs for all of the bad stuff that’s about to happen to my team. Shame on them! And the TMOs too. Barstewards.


Last edited by The Oracle on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Not making sense!)
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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by majesticimperialman on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:23 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
6 nations organisers seem put the crunch match of the fixture list as the last game and I think that's what they have done in this case.

England Ireland is the crunch game and its first. It has been last in this sequence.

I agree who ever wins between Ireland and England , Will in my opinion be in line for the championship.

I am not saying that either England or Ireland will win the Grand slam. And the way Wales played in the autum, internationals. You would be foolish to write them off.

My gut feeling is that there will be no Grand slam this year. But. i do also expect a tough fight for the title.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 2:26 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
6 nations organisers seem put the crunch match of the fixture list as the last game and I think that's what they have done in this case.

England Ireland is the crunch game and its first. It has been last in this sequence.

Six nations organisers, form and world rankings disagree however it is probably the second biggest game, certainly for Ireland anyway.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 4:23 pm

England Scotland is the last game so I guess organisers see that as the grand slam decider.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Taylorman on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 11:08 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
6 nations organisers seem put the crunch match of the fixture list as the last game and I think that's what they have done in this case.

England Ireland is the crunch game and its first. It has been last in this sequence.

Six nations organisers, form and world rankings disagree however it is probably the second biggest game, certainly for Ireland anyway.

Youre saying the organisers schedule the 6N based on what they think will be ‘the biggest game’ in the last round? Interesting. That woukd be some discussion. If so I would have put Ireland England last as i think one of the two will win it. Rankings are irrelevant when theyre close. Wales get both at home so get the dark horse tag.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Taylorman on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 11:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:England Scotland is the last game so I guess organisers see that as the grand slam decider.

Youre saying they think the winner will come from either england or Scotland? Not very smart then arent they? Scotland would be forth or fifth in the betting.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by BamBam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 11:50 pm

Somewhat on topic - I don't understand why the schedule is set so we always end up with the same home games alternating every year

England always have Wales and Ireland at home with the other 3 away one year, then Wales / Ireland away with the other 3 at home the next year

Why is it not completely random?

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 12:09 am

What, radomise it every 2 years? As in have a way whereby you ensure a team can have no more than 3, nor fewer than 2, home games in a 'draw' of some sort? How would you do that? How would you then decide how they relate to each other - do you pick one team's fixtures first, then another team's are picked around the existing 5 that were chosen, and so on? How do you ensure you dont get huge clashes when it comes to scheduling, i.e. the order the games are played in? Is this also random?

I'm fairly certain I'm not going mad, but didn't it used to always be home-away-home-away. And then went to home-away-away-away-home (or a-h-a-h-a, or vice versa) during the Six Nations? And now it's gone completely mad with fixtures - as in it is much more random, presumably because of the split television rights and the growing influence in 'shaping' the tournament flow so you end up with 'Grand Slam decider' games on the final weekend.

Basically, the organisers would LOVE it if you had 2013 or 2015's final weekend every tournament.

But randomised fixtures in TV world don't work. Just look at the Premier League - they don't ry to solely favour Manchester United anymore as they did in the 90s and 00s, but they are selected so you end up with 'derby weekends' etc.

I'm mainly against it because Wales play all 3 blue teams home or away, and so Ireland and England are the opposite. It's easy to remember. And that's the main reason... Cool

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Taylorman on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 12:18 am

They do switch the order of the matches, England and Ireland first, when it was last Two years ago. But agree, what can you do? Ireland played france away last year so must play them home this year. Same with every fixture. Otherwise youd have to start having two home matches in a row. Ideally it should be home and away each year but six sides and double the matches obviously doesnt fit someones agenda.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 12:26 am

Yeah, sorry, I've described that horribly as I'm so tired. I didn't mean 'you always play England week 2' etc. More that it used to be symmetrical. Within the last 3 tournaments (since ITV came in in UK broadcasting) Wales have a very strange fixture list, very lopsided and not the usual format. Think it was last year.

This to me shows TV is having more control/influence over who plays when. It could be random - but I doubt it.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 8:49 am

I was applying collapses logic on the last game. But there's a pretty decent chance that game will be deciding whether it's a grand slam.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 11:44 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
6 nations organisers seem put the crunch match of the fixture list as the last game and I think that's what they have done in this case.

England Ireland is the crunch game and its first. It has been last in this sequence.

Six nations organisers, form and world rankings disagree however it is probably the second biggest game, certainly for Ireland anyway.

Youre saying the organisers schedule the 6N based on what they think will be ‘the biggest game’ in the last round? Interesting. That woukd be some discussion.  If so I would have put Ireland England last as i think one of the two will win it. Rankings are irrelevant when theyre close. Wales get both at home so get the dark horse tag.

Yes I suspect they do do that. Wales finished 2nd in last years tournament, Ireland 1st, England 5th. Wales are ranked 3rd in the world, Ireland 2nd. There is plenty of logic to consider Wales v Ireland the big one. No disrespect to England but I feel Wales away is a tougher game than England at home at present, mainly because they are both good and playing at home makes a difference.

Just because NZ struggled against England doesnt make them a better 6 nations prospect to Wales. The reality is the winner will most likely come from one of these teams.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 1:34 pm

I expect you'll reconsider after 1 game!

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 3:26 pm

Think injuries will dictate whether Wales perform better than England, or vice versa, in the 6Ns. Wales missing key players - 10, 15 - to injury, poor form - 9, 12, 6 - or lack of match fitness - 8. Question marks over who plays blindside wing with Halfpenny out as well (presuming LW goes to 15). The regions' poor form means that, since the AIs, Wales' hopes have probably diminished. Hopefully they can forget the league/Europe when they meet up with Wales and play to their potential (particularly Scarlets players).

England will miss Underhill. Their most important loose forward, for me. Genuine world class ability and can make the difference for them when it comes to winning the RWC. Not sure England have enough 'skill' at the breakdown to counter Ireland's nous. Nor Wales for that matter. It'll be back to brute strength and kicking again this 6Ns, which is what they're good at. Not sure who else they're missing, is in shocking form, or lacking match fitness. Billy Vunipola? Issues in the centres? Their strength in depth means they should be able to cope better than Wales.

Looking forward to Wales actually playing England as well. Wales controlled a really good, intense game 2 years ago but ultimately failed to (successfully) score tries from their dominance and bottled it in the second-half, with England turning the screw in the final 10 minutes to nick ahead. Last year was a strange game, anti-rugby at its finest by England, but Wales didn't have enough composure to finish off their breaks.

Wales have a shocking 6Ns record against England having not won since 2013. But I think both sides hold 'fear' for each other - Wales can't compete with England's strength and intensity when they're in 'full flow' (who can?) and there's all sorts of other things that come into that as well, like the classic Welsh psyche being their own worst enemy. But England definitely fear what Wales can do, too - 2013, 2015, and you saw the glimmer in 2016 as well when Wales pushed them to the final whistle. Wales can ravage them in a short space of time and England have failed to shut it down on the biggest stage. 2018 was a marker of how much England fear Wales' ability to control the game at a tempo they dislike, as well as their 'momentum' when they start running the ball around 60 minutes, and it worked. In many ways, the fear same thing - both teams have a healthy wariness of the other when it 'clicks'. Nothing particularly outstanding there. As ever, it's a case of being fairly evenly matched for a while breeding a professional competitiveness (as well as all the historical/cultural elements, too).

In terms of Ireland, I don't think either comes close enough to be considered favourites. Ireland are slick, structured, and 'aware' in a way that England and Wales simply aren't. That's partly Schmidt, but it's also the structure/provinces as well. Success is breeding success for them - Munster, Leinster, and now even Ulster are looking genuinely competitive in Europe, with the first two standing a good chance of going all the way.

Ultimately, I don't think England are savvy enough to compete with Ireland. They need to beast them up front - which can be done, particularly with a fast start, but I don't think they have the back rowers to outclass PoM et. al. Wales lack the game management and aren't as 'tidy' in things like box-kicks, transitions, and are nowhere near as good at executing multi phase plays with accuracy and intent.

So, in conclusion, Ireland are Ireland's biggest threat this 6Ns. It's whether they can sustain their level to beat less settled, less effective opposition for 5 straight games. No easy feat - they could be caught out in 4 of them. Now France are getting back to where they should be, that's what makes the 6Ns so good as a fan.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 3:42 pm

To bring this back to the thread topic, one thing that may counter Ireland's effectiveness is the way other teams are 'catching up' to the 'binding' application at the breakdown.

It was utterly infuriating seeing Irish players bound onto the (opposition) tackled player by holding the shirt, so when they get engaged by the ruck defence, they often aren't cleared out beyond the ball, making it easier to slow down possession or actively turn it over. It was painful seeing that player nowhere near the ball, yet winning the penalty for not releasing as his teammates scream 'release' at the referee whilst the ball is trapped under the player being held down by the 'grappler' and all subsequent bodies piling on top and then over him.

With 'hitting' a ruck with the shoulder now a red card liability, teams are grabbing the shirts of their own teams to secure a ruck more often as far as I can tell. It makes retaining the ball a lot easier, particularly as the tackled player tends to 'come with' any ruck defender who does lose yards in a collision. I wonder if it will get tidied up in time for the RWC (doubt it, seems too niche) as the tackled player is essentially playing the ball on the floor.

But the widespread use of binding on the shirt at the breakdown is likely to be less of a weapon for Ireland and even England, who used it well in '16 and '17. No team uses it as effectively as Ireland do to turn opposition ball over, however. Will be interesting, for me, to see how it is officiated.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 3:45 pm

Anti rugby. Lol. A meaningless phrase.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:A meaningless phrase.

Your epithet, 7.5 Hug

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:28 pm

Nice side step.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:31 pm

In which case it's a better rugby-related response than I've read from you on these boards in a while Very Happy Wink #DodgeDuckDipDiveDodge

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:35 pm

Fair enough. You don't need to back up your dire point.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by lostinwales on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:42 pm

miaow wrote:Think injuries will dictate whether Wales perform better than England, or vice versa, in the 6Ns. Wales missing key players - 10, 15 - to injury, poor form - 9, 12, 6 - or lack of match fitness - 8. Question marks over who plays blindside wing with Halfpenny out as well (presuming LW goes to 15). The regions' poor form means that, since the AIs, Wales' hopes have probably diminished. Hopefully they can forget the league/Europe when they meet up with Wales and play to their potential (particularly Scarlets players).

England will miss Underhill. Their most important loose forward, for me. Genuine world class ability and can make the difference for them when it comes to winning the RWC. Not sure England have enough 'skill' at the breakdown to counter Ireland's nous. Nor Wales for that matter. It'll be back to brute strength and kicking again this 6Ns, which is what they're good at. Not sure who else they're missing, is in shocking form, or lacking match fitness. Billy Vunipola? Issues in the centres? Their strength in depth means they should be able to cope better than Wales.

Looking forward to Wales actually playing England as well. Wales controlled a really good, intense game 2 years ago but ultimately failed to (successfully) score tries from their dominance and bottled it in the second-half, with England turning the screw in the final 10 minutes to nick ahead. Last year was a strange game, anti-rugby at its finest by England, but Wales didn't have enough composure to finish off their breaks.

Wales have a shocking 6Ns record against England having not won since 2013. But I think both sides hold 'fear' for each other - Wales can't compete with England's strength and intensity when they're in 'full flow' (who can?) and there's all sorts of other things that come into that as well, like the classic Welsh psyche being their own worst enemy. But England definitely fear what Wales can do, too - 2013, 2015, and you saw the glimmer in 2016 as well when Wales pushed them to the final whistle. Wales can ravage them in a short space of time and England have failed to shut it down on the biggest stage. 2018 was a marker of how much England fear Wales' ability to control the game at a tempo they dislike, as well as their 'momentum' when they start running the ball around 60 minutes, and it worked. In many ways, the fear same thing - both teams have a healthy wariness of the other when it 'clicks'. Nothing particularly outstanding there. As ever, it's a case of being fairly evenly matched for a while breeding a professional competitiveness (as well as all the historical/cultural elements, too).

In terms of Ireland, I don't think either comes close enough to be considered favourites. Ireland are slick, structured, and 'aware' in a way that England and Wales simply aren't. That's partly Schmidt, but it's also the structure/provinces as well. Success is breeding success for them - Munster, Leinster, and now even Ulster are looking genuinely competitive in Europe, with the first two standing a good chance of going all the way.

Ultimately, I don't think England are savvy enough to compete with Ireland. They need to beast them up front - which can be done, particularly with a fast start, but I don't think they have the back rowers to outclass PoM et. al. Wales lack the game management and aren't as 'tidy' in things like box-kicks, transitions, and are nowhere near as good at executing multi phase plays with accuracy and intent.

So, in conclusion, Ireland are Ireland's biggest threat this 6Ns. It's whether they can sustain their level to beat less settled, less effective opposition for 5 straight games. No easy feat - they could be caught out in 4 of them. Now France are getting back to where they should be, that's what makes the 6Ns so good as a fan.

England have not been about brute strength and kicking for a long time. To a degree they may be doing that this time because in Billy we have possibly the strongest forward in the game, and a Sinckler/Genge front row won't take any prisoners. But we do score more than our fair share of tries through the backs, and I think that only gets ignored because they tend to be taken very quickly. (we don't do the side to side stuff very well at all).

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:57 pm

It's a sound bite without anything to back it up.going back to 2003 pr but ignoring the best Wales had to offer since relied massively on scrums and playing the ref.
And that's not anti rugby. That's just rugby!

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Fair enough. You don't need to back up your dire point.

Call it negative, low risk rugby then - the antithesis of what most involved in rugby want to play and watch, unless they're up against a team that is significantly better than them. That shouldn't be the case when England play at home against Wales, but there we go - England are the creators of the game...and 10 man (anti) rugby, so...

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:08 pm

Ha. Just silly then. But Ireland are great eh.
8 assume you just don't watch much of England if you assume we focused on forward power. Certainly assuming Underhill is more focused on technique than curry suggests that. Hey keep with your thoughts that Wales are somehow the bastians of flowing rugby though. When you've been good 8ts when you've ground it out through y9ur forwards recently.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:44 pm

lostinwales wrote:England have not been about brute strength and kicking for a long time. To a degree they may be doing that this time because in Billy we have possibly the strongest forward in the game, and a Sinckler/Genge front row won't take any prisoners. But we do score more than our fair share of tries through the backs, and I think that only gets ignored because they tend to be taken very quickly. (we don't do the side to side stuff very well at all).

Na, disagree. We're talking about EJ's England here, so post-15 RWC. I'd say Lancaster's England definitely didn't adhere to relying on brute strength - to the point where they were undercooked in the RWC. Perhaps his biggest flaw was being too ideologically hopeful on playing 'total rugby' - but he's finding Leinster far more fertile for that.

England won two 6Ns on the back of focused aggression in as many areas as possible. Because they've got some really good players, it was enough to beat everyone in 2016, but not Ireland in 2017. The sudden drop off in England's fortunes after that was because all their dominance came from momentum, particularly at the rucks (Haskell, Itoje simply driving players off it). Most tries were scored by going directly forward as often as possible, even without the ball (Mike Brown not passing - get up the field/territory asap, not a sign that he's useless) and you decimate opposition defence. You don't have to go wide if players are scrambling back to get behind the ball/scrambe defence - holes pop up within a pass or two of a ruck. Hence lots of tries for the backs.

A few law changes hampered England - no kicking the ball forwards (or forwards' heads/balls...) in the rucks (big one), the general engagement laws at the ruck and height of tackles (although refs are doing their best to adjudicate Farrell under legacy laws). Other teams also worked them out - Scotland used their momentum against them brilliantly in 2018, isolating the ball carrier and turning them over repeatedly. Other teams were also more able to nullify their physicality simply by knowing what was coming. Gatland's Wales tactics aren't miles away from EJ's England tactics, but the latter is more explosive, more reliant on physical dominance and contesting everything, than it is on controlling a game through possession for possession's sake and ball in play time like Wales. Both love territory, both love kicking.

When England lost their big starts, became less effective with aggression, and started giving away penalties, they lost an incredible number of games - quite a drop from going on a record winning streak. They're obviously better than that streak, but the drop off was always going to happen. The losing streak shows a distinct mental fragility to the setup, as well as a lack of leadership/control among the management team. It looks like that's been adressed as well, long enough to get through the RWC at least, but the person that EJ is I think that volatility is to be expected to be honest. It's a blessing as well as a curse in terms of performance.

The challenge for EJ and England now is getting back to basics - finding a way where they can dominate every game physically like they did for large parts against NZ in the Autumn - and keep the discipline that can see them turn the screw against the very best. Or, becoming more tactically aware than they currently are to cut mistakes and penalties and add more variety to their game. Players like Henry Slade should and Daly should be the key players in the team - but because Farrell is the goldenboy, in what is a classic case of England rugby, they've hampered the overall team for the sake of a very good player that leads to an unbalanced team. With 6 months to the RWC preparation, my bet would be that England end up selecting Cokanasiga, Vunipola, and Tuilagi in the 23 if fit, and use their powerful physicality to ensure they always have a player or two capable of dynamic gaineline success. That's where the pace of Daly and especially May becomes lethal, finishing off those marginal chances.

The fact that a resurgent but unpolished South Africa dominanted them for large parts should be a worry, as is the fact that a huge refereeing error ought to have given SA a shot to win the game. But they're still a big threat for the RWC because of what EJ knows they can do when they have a ruthless approach to winning at all cost. They're a big powerful team and...wait for it...that's a pretty large percentage of rugby and what it takes to create a winning team. I just don't think England have enough variety in their game to beat a team like Scotland, say, that's physically weak but high tempo and free flowing, and then back it up against a South Africa or France, where they'll be in a huge arm wrestle, or an Ireland or Wales, where tactical cuteness/playing the ref will be a big part of the game.

If I'm being honest, I see the NZ performance as England's level at this point - didn't score after 20-something minutes, really dedicated and powerful, but lacking a skill and nous against more technically talented sides. NZ looked cool and calm throughtout, and butchered a few key moments that would have opened the game up and made it a more interesting insight into England's state (having to come back, rather than just hold on). But I don't see them being 'better' than that - nor do I expect them to replicate their 'best', i.e. the first quarter, for a full 80 minuntes.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. Just silly then. But Ireland are great eh.
8 assume you just don't watch much of England if you assume we focused on forward power. Certainly assuming Underhill is more focused on technique than curry suggests that. Hey keep with your thoughts that Wales are somehow the bastians of flowing rugby though. When you've been good 8ts when you've ground it out through y9ur forwards recently.

I like how you managed to accurately depict 'increasingly spittle-flecked' via the written word.

Impressive st8ff 7 &1/8!!1@!" furious

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

Post by miaow on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 6:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. Just silly then. But Ireland are great eh.

Ireland play with more variety. Their tries against the best teams show that they play some great attacking rugby.

What sums up England for me, both the attitude and the hierarchy, was Owen Farrell screaming at Cipriani as he put in an incredible kick for May(?) to score away in Australia. Too many egos, too negative.

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Re: 2019 Guinness Six Nations Refereeing Appointments - Ireland dodge Barnes

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