Scotland 6N's Buildup Thread

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Scotland 6N's Buildup Thread - Page 2 Empty Scotland 6N's Buildup Thread

Post by bsando on Wed 09 Jan 2019, 12:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

Scotland's 2019 6N Fixtures

Sat, 2 Feb, 14:15
Murrayfield Stadium
Scotland vs Italy

Sat, 9 Feb, 14:15
Murrayfield Stadium
Scotland vs Ireland

Sat, 23 Feb, 14:15
Stade de France
France vs Scotland

Sat, 9 Mar, 14:15
Murrayfield Stadium
Scotland vs Wales

Sat, 16 Mar, 17:00
Twickenham Stadium
England vs Scotland

2019 6N Squad
Scotland 6N's Buildup Thread - Page 2 Sru_la10

2019 6N Call ups

Matt Smith, Rob Harley, Alex Dunbar, Luke Crosbie, Henry Pyrgos, Stafford McDowall, Rory Hughes

2018 6N Squad

Scott Lawson, Stuart McInally, George Turner, Simon Berghan, Jamie Bhatti, Murray McCallum, Gordon Reid, D'Arcy Rae, Jon Welsh, Grant Gilchrist, Jonny Gray, Richie Gray, Ben Toolis, John Barclay (c), Magnus Bradbury, Luke Hamilton, Rob Harley, Hamish Watson, David Denton, Cornell du Preez, Ryan Wilson,

Nathan Fowles, Greig Laidlaw, Ali Price, Henry Pyrgos, Peter Horne, Ruaridh Jackson, Finn Russell, Mark Bennett, Alex Dunbar, Nick Grigg, Chris Harris, Huw Jones, Duncan Taylor, Lee Jones, Sean Maitland, Byron McGuigan, Tommy Seymour, Stuart Hogg, Blair Kinghorn

2018 6N Call ups

Neil Cochrane, Fraser Brown, James Malcolm, Zander Fagerson, Darryl Marfo, WP Nel, Scott Cummings, Tim Swinson, Matt Fagerson, John Hardie, Josh Strauss, George Horne, Adam Hastings, Matt Scott, Richie Vernon, Tim Visser

Recent Final Placings

2018 3rd GT
2017 4th VC
2016 4th VC
2015 6th VC
2014 5th SJ


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Post by RDW on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:06 am

By position:

Loosehead

Bhattie
Allen
Dell

Hooker
Cherry
KERR
McInally
Stewart

Tighthead

Nel
Berghan
Rae

Lock

Gilchrist
Gray
Skinner
Swinson
Toolis

Back row

Ashe
Graham
Hardie
Ritchie
Strauss
Watson
Wilson

Scrum half

Horne
Laidlaw
Price

Stand off

Russell
Hastings

Centre

Dean
Grigg
Johnson
Harris
Horne
Jones

Back 3

Graham
Hogg
Jones
Kinghorn
Maitland
Seymour


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Post by Anglobraveheart on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:13 am

Obvious ommissions in Pyrgos, Dunbar and James Lang.
Pyrgos missing will be good for Edinburgh, as they will benefit from his experience and leadership during the 6N games. He obviously doesn't fit the Toonie profile atm.
Dunbar is an odd one. If fit, I think he is our best all round 12. There's something not right there, maybe he's looking for a move, and it's upsetting his form. A la Russell last year.
Lang doesn't appear to be a regular starter at quins, and maybe Toonie hasn't seen enough from him?

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Post by RDW on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:16 am

Pyrgos has definitely been performing better than Price so that is a strange one.

Lang has actually been playing a lot for quins - and had a run of games at 10 even - but he's obviously lower down the pecking order than the 10s and 12s included.

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:25 am

Lang is still young so he might be included post world cup?

Still dont understand the persistence with Harris, havent seen anything too marvelous from him beyond he's a good defender

I'm happy with Johnson and Dean being the 12 options, despite Dunbar being a personal favourite, I rate Johnson and Dean has been playing well! Still don't rate Grigg though.

Our back 3 is unbelievably well stocked!

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Post by IanBru on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:34 am

Tramptastic wrote:
Our back 3 is unbelievably well stocked!
I'd be happy with practically any combination of that back three. Maybe not Seymour at FB, but it's marginal... I'm trying not to be too excited about this tournament, but with the form of Edinburgh's forwards it's looking pretty tasty.

I'm predicting particularly big tournaments from Ritchie, George Horne and Darcy Graham. In other news, water is wet and hipsters are annoying.


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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:35 am

RDW - You missed Stewart off the hooker list.

Aside from that, thanks for breaking it down by position, makes life a lot easier

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Post by RDW on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:36 am

EWT Spoons wrote:RDW - You missed Stewart off the hooker list.

Aside from that, thanks for breaking it down by position, makes life a lot easier

Don't know what your'e talking about Whistle

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Post by bsando on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:38 am

For Italy

1. Dell
2. McInally
3. Nel
4. Gray
5. Skinner
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Wilson
9. Laidlaw
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Johnson
13. Jones (On street cred)
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Stewart
17. Allan
18. Rae
19. Gilchrist
20. Hardie
21. G Horne
22. Hastings
23. Kinghorn

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Post by bsando on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:55 am

Tramptastic wrote:Lang is still young so he might be included post world cup?

Still dont understand the persistence with Harris, havent seen anything too marvelous from him beyond he's a good defender

I'm happy with Johnson and Dean being the 12 options, despite Dunbar being a personal favourite, I rate Johnson and Dean has been playing well! Still don't rate Grigg though.

Our back 3 is unbelievably well stocked!

Harris put Tommy Seymour in for a good score against Fiji, but he has yet to do anything huge against more formidable opposition, agreed.

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:58 am

IanBru wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
Our back 3 is unbelievably well stocked!
I'd be happy with practically any combination of that back three. Maybe not Seymour at FB, but it's marginal... I'm trying not to be too excited about this tournament, but with the form of Edinburgh's forwards it's looking pretty tasty.

I'm predicting particularly big tournaments from Ritchie, George Horne and Darcy Graham. In other news, water is wet and hipsters are annoying.

Yeh but burgers and beer have been popularised to the point I cant remember the last time I had a sh1te pint. Its just unfortunate we have to put up with everything else that comes with them...

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 11:13 am

I keep looking at our back row and thinking we need someone who is either a bit of a bruiser or hard as nails... maybe time for Hardie to start but at 6?

6. Hardie
7. Watson
8. Strauss

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 11:18 am

Jake Kerr is an interesting prospect. He has looked good for us, but with less than a handful of starts this is very early for a call up.

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Post by highland_scot on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 11:20 am


Pretty happy with that, no real surprises, I was expecting at least one player we've never heard of.

What's most comforting is that we've got a decent squad there, despite having an injury list which could put out a team like the below (though we'd need to go full Bergamasco and pick a SH and a FH from CDP, Fagerson, Hamilton, Thomson, Turner & Welsh...):

1 Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh)
2 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Toulouse)
5 Lewis Carmichael (Edinburgh)
6 David Denton (Leicester Tigers)
7 John Barclay (Edinburgh)
8 Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh)
9
10
11 Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh)
13 Mark Bennett (Edinburgh)
14 Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh)
15 Duncan Taylor (Saracens)

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 11:21 am

This looks particularly worrying for Blade Thomson's rugby future.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 12:32 pm

highland_scot wrote:
Pretty happy with that, no real surprises, I was expecting at least one player we've never heard of.

What's most comforting is that we've got a decent squad there, despite having an injury list which could put out a team like the below (though we'd need to go full Bergamasco and pick a SH and a FH from CDP, Fagerson, Hamilton, Thomson, Turner & Welsh...):

1 Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh)
2 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Toulouse)
5 Lewis Carmichael (Edinburgh)
6 David Denton (Leicester Tigers)
7 John Barclay (Edinburgh)
8 Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh)
9
10
11 Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh)
13 Mark Bennett (Edinburgh)
14 Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh)
15 Duncan Taylor (Saracens)

I know they are not injured but you could put SHC or Pyrgos at 9, and Weir at 10

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 12:32 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:This looks particularly worrying for Blade Thomson's rugby future.

Sure I read on twitter one of the scottish rugby journalists saying that apparently he's not far off being back fit for Scarlets again.

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 1:52 pm

It's a sign of how far Scotland has come, I suppose, to say that if No 8 is the greatest of our worries, we are a damn sight better off than we used to be.

Am very disappointed about the lack of young talent at 8. Bradbury is certainly the next cab off the rank but is now officially out of the squad due to injury. I am a big Strauss fan but he was absolutely anonymous in his last game and it's difficult to see him anything other as a Least Bad Placeholder. What we could give for a CJ McStander. Hope to hell that oor Blade Thomson is the answer and that he is added to the squad later.

I still cannot shake the feeling that "Just Call Me Pete" Horne is not a test class player and the one highlight reel pass per game does not cancel out the tidal wave of averageness which surrounds him at international level. For me, Johnson is a whole level above in terms of quality and I really hope that this is the year he is given a decent run with St Shug of Jones.
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Post by bsando on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 2:07 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Jake Kerr is an interesting prospect. He has looked good for us, but with less than a handful of starts this is very early for a call up.

Well tell that to Hugh Blake, he didn’t even get a chance to put an Edinburgh shirt on before he got called up.

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Post by RDW on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 2:11 pm

I'd be surprised if Kerr features in the 6N, but we're only an injury or two away from needing him!

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Post by BigGee on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 2:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'd be surprised if Kerr features in the 6N, but we're only an injury or two away from needing him!

Well one of those three hookers will be benching probably for the first two games, in terms of experience, there is not that much between them, so it may come down to who shows up well with the squad.

An injury to McInally and one of them will be starting!

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 5:29 pm

What do you call a decent number 8 in Scotland?

We’ll tell you if we find one
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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 1:21 am

I think people are too quick to write off ashe as a viable 8 option. He's strong and physical and does the graft. His few appearances in a Scotland shirt at 8 have been considerably better than strauss, and I'd definitely put him ahead of wilson.

I reckon he could be our first choice for the 6ns and surprise a lot of people, deservedly so.
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Post by George Carlin on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 5:25 am

I see Ashe and my brain screams 'meh'. Perhaps that's unfair.

How has he been playing this season in competitive games?
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Post by BigGee on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 5:40 am

Inconsistent would be the best way to describe As He. He can be good or anonymous, was putting pressure on Wilson for his place but fell away again.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 7:55 am

In fairness he struggled with injury for a long time so that could be something to do with it.

I just think of all our current options he's the most likely to come good. We all know what wilson does and strauss may well have walked off the pitch, he's that invisible during Scotland games.

Until/if we get blade or bradbury back we're always going to be a bit limited. I seriously think ashe could do a decent job in a scotland shirt at 8.
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Post by bsando on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 7:58 am

The last time I think I saw Scotland playing with a bullocking, ball carrying 8 was probably David Denton vs England at Murrayfield 2012 where Scotland butchered an easy 1 on 1 and England scored via a charge down. He was decent in the RWC 2015 as well pre all the injuries and club swaps.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:30 am

A 2015 denton would be welcome. He's played ok recently though just crap hands and awareness quite frequently. I don't think he's done much wrong in a scotland shirt, just is very limited.

The scouts must be desperately looking for big fijians with a scottish granny. Lets hope mata has children born in Edinburgh!
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Post by RDW on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:38 am

Townsend gave a bit of an update on some of the injuries. R Gray should be back in the next few weeks but he'll take a while to get up to speed - given our depth at lock I'd be surprised if we saw him in the tournament barring injuries.

Barclay has been ruled out appearing in the 6N but he says he'll be back for Edinburgh before the end of the tournament.

No mention on anyone else.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:41 am

Denton fit again from a HI point of view but has done a Hammy!

Hookers and hopefully Zander back after first block of games

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Post by RDW on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:49 am

Yet to see any mention of Bradbury. He was injured in October and the prognosis was 3-4 months worst case so hopefully he'll be back soon.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 9:12 am

BigGee wrote:Denton fit again from a HI point of view but has done a Hammy!

Where did you see that about his hamstring?

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Post by BigGee on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 12:13 pm

It was in 'the offside line' an online journal about Scottish rugby, talking about the injured Scottish players

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 7:50 pm

I actually think I'd like to see Dean play at 12 against Italy, he seems a solid but not spectacular 12 with no obvious shortfalls or amazing virtues. But a solid Cockerill coached 12 could be good foil for the Gregor Townsend groomed insanity of Huw Jones, Finn Russell and Stuart Hogg all around him. I think a lot of the Glasgow lot will be getting in on money they had in the bank. You could even make a case for Kinghorn ahead of Hogg on form, Graham ahead of Seymour. I'd say on form Jones is behind Grigg and Johnstone but he does produce more often than not for Scotland. Ali Price as well must be on borrowed time, I honestly can't remember the last time I saw him put in a decent performance. On form I think he's behind Pyrgos and Horne, I can't speak for Laidlaw or Hidalgo-Clyne but of our five scrum-halves of real international quality I think Price will be lucky to be in the top three come september at this rate. That being said when Hogg and Jones turn it on there isn't a team in world rugby who can cope with them (and if there is they're not Italian). If there's one thing that's true of Italy, if you put a team with pace and skill against them they simply cannot play rugby. If we can get Horne, Russell, Jones, Kinghorn, Hogg and Maitland out on the pitch against them I think we can cause them serious, serious problems that I don't believe they'll have any answers for.
It would be nice to see Ashe get a run out in a Scotland shirt, I think on form he's our best compromise between Denton's power and Wilson's skill. But he has an awful habit of blowing hot and cold from game to game sometimes even during. Ritchie and Watson have been immense whenever I've seen them play together for Edinburgh this year and seem to be a decent foil for each other. Ashe, Watson and Ritchie carry a similar balance to the 'Killers Bs' of nearly a decade ago. Skinner and Gray are both quite similar locks but I do think they'd do a very good job together, their work rate will make them very hard for any team to deal with. I won't pretend to be an expert on the front row so I've just picked the names I know best.
I'd be more than happy with a starting XV of:

1. Dell
2. MacInally
3. Nel
4. Gray
5. Skinner
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Ashe
9. Horne
10. Russell
11. Kinghorn
12. Dean
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Bhatti
17. Stewart
18. Berghan
19. Gilchrist
20. Wilson
21. Laidlaw
22. Hastings
23. Seymour


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Post by RDW on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 7:58 pm

Good summary numbers.

I think you're right on Dean, but you could also say the same about Johnson - he's not a flashy player by any means but just does everything very well. He has a bit of  X-factor too when needed. Given his familiarity with the other backs I think he'll be in over Dean.

Saying that, I'm 90% sure he'll pick Horne!

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good summary numbers.

I think you're right on Dean, but you could also say the same about Johnson - he's not a flashy player by any means but just does everything very well. He has a bit of  X-factor too when needed. Given his familiarity with the other backs I think he'll be in over Dean.

Saying that, I'm 90% sure he'll pick Horne!

I reckon we might see Russell and Hastings put together

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Post by RDW on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:17 pm

123456789. wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good summary numbers.

I think you're right on Dean, but you could also say the same about Johnson - he's not a flashy player by any means but just does everything very well. He has a bit of  X-factor too when needed. Given his familiarity with the other backs I think he'll be in over Dean.

Saying that, I'm 90% sure he'll pick Horne!

I reckon we might see Russell and Hastings put together
Can't see it - didn't work overly well in the short time they played together and there's no way he's going to play such a crazy experiment in the 6N

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Post by BigGee on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:34 pm

I think Horne will bench and cover 10/12 unless Hastings has a big game this weekend and shoes us he is back in form.

Remember most of last season when both were got, DR generally picked Johnson ahead of Horne. He is certainly better defensively than Horne and less prone to the odd sloppy moment

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 9:29 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
123456789. wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good summary numbers.

I think you're right on Dean, but you could also say the same about Johnson - he's not a flashy player by any means but just does everything very well. He has a bit of  X-factor too when needed. Given his familiarity with the other backs I think he'll be in over Dean.

Saying that, I'm 90% sure he'll pick Horne!

I reckon we might see Russell and Hastings put together
Can't see it - didn't work overly well in the short time they played together and there's no way he's going to play such a crazy experiment in the 6N

A very valid point, equally valid is that Gregor Townsend is the head coach. I do believe he genuinely sets out to shock a wee bit in every team.

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 9:36 am

A wee shock is putting an on form Graham on the wing over a not in form Seymour.

A Toonie shock is putting W P Nel to outside centre or Ryan Wilson to No 8
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Post by cameljunior on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 11:24 am

In March 87 we fielded a pack with the following back 5 Iain Paxton, Derek White, John Jeffrey, Finlay Calder and John Beattie.  How I wish any of them were in the mix now as the No 8 crisis would be solved
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Post by highland_scot on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 11:39 am

I feel a Dean/Jones centre combination would be interesting and worth a go. I'm not sure if Dean is a test match animal or not, but there's only one way to find out. He's defensively solid, pretty robust as a former back-rower, and runs good lines. His handling and distribution has improved markedly this season and it looks like he's tried to develop an element of a kicking game too. Solid but unspectacular would be a good summary. Probably quite similar to Dunbar.

Dean's issue is not covering any other positions, so he likely needs to start or he's not getting a game.

Another interesting combination might have been Johnson & Johnstone, had the Edinburgh 13 been picked - just to wind up the commentary team! I like Sam Johnson because again he's not flashy but I would say he's a classy player. Very balanced runner, decent at everything and seems to make good decisions. Just the kind of player you want outside Finn!

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Post by EST on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 11:40 am

The No.8 conundrum rumbles on, we really are very far behind our competition in that position.

Ashe was playing very well earlier this season, but seems to have gone of the boil of late; Wilson never was, is or going to be a test class 8; Strauss can't seem to make the jump to international level; Denton is injured and when he isn't he is very limited and Bradbury and Blade are both out.

I'm not all that sure who will start, but wouldn't be surprised to see Richie at 6 and Wilson at 8, which will be very mobile but lacking any sort of go-forward.

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Post by EST on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 11:42 am

highland_scot wrote:I feel a Dean/Jones centre combination would be interesting and worth a go. I'm not sure if Dean is a test match animal or not, but there's only one way to find out. He's defensively solid, pretty robust as a former back-rower, and runs good lines. His handling and distribution has improved markedly this season and it looks like he's tried to develop an element of a kicking game too. Solid but unspectacular would be a good summary. Probably quite similar to Dunbar.

Dean's issue is not covering any other positions, so he likely needs to start or he's not getting a game.

Another interesting combination might have been Johnson & Johnstone, had the Edinburgh 13 been picked - just to wind up the commentary team! I like Sam Johnson because again he's not flashy but I would say he's a classy player. Very balanced runner, decent at everything and seems to make good decisions. Just the kind of player you want outside Finn!

Good summary of Dean, who has proven me wrong this season - I didn't think he had it in him to be quite honest. I would be more than happy with either Dean or Johnson at 12, both of whom would be a good foil for Jones, Russell and Hogg.

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Post by EST on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 11:51 am

My team for Italy would be:

Dell
McInally
Nel
Gilchrist
Gray
Richie
Watson
Ashe

Laidlaw
Russell
Maitland
Johnson
Jones
Seymour
Hogg

Allan
Kerr
Berghan
Toolis
Wilson
Horne
Horne
Kinghorn

Looking at that team, some pretty big concerns regarding our second choice front row and starting backrow - both of which look a bit underpowered for the brutal world of 6N rugby.

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Post by RDW on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 12:03 pm

Loosehead and hooker subs definitely look a bit green / underpowered

An on form Bhattie would be a good option - he stood up well in the AIs when he was thrust into action

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Post by BigGee on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 2:16 pm

Still seems to be behind Allen in the Glasgow pecking order

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 3:25 pm

What happened to Marfo? He did well when he was playing for Scotland. I know he had a back injury but since that he's just not featured for Edinburgh.

Sutherland seems to have stalled too, so much promise but he's just faded into club sub.
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Post by RDW on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 3:28 pm

Cockers has publicly said Marfo just isn't doing enough to get picked - sounds like an attitude/commitment issue.

Sutherland was out injured for a long time then came up against Schoeman and Dell when he came back - Cockers just hasn't picked him as he's not dropped either of those two. When those two have been rested Sutherland has generally played.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 3:55 pm

Marfo can't currently break into the Boroughmuir team, he's been on the bench for the last while for them. He's fit (not injured) but apparently has a bit of an attitude.

Sutherland is injured again after taking a heavy knock against the kings when scoring his try. He struggled on after that, but was clearly hurt. With Dell going I would expect him to get a lot more gametime.

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Post by RDW on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 4:32 pm

Obviously we don't know the details, but it would be disappointing if Marfo had an attitude/commitment problem given the past he's had. For years he was a journeyman rugby player and it would be a shame if he let the opportunity slip just as he had broken through into the big time.

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