Saracens v Glasgow Warriors Euro Champions Cup Satuday 19th January 2019

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Post by BigGee on Tue 15 Jan 2019, 2:03 pm

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Saracens v Glasgow Warriors
European Champions Cup 6th Round
Allianz Park
North London

KO at 13.00
Live on BT sport

Well Glasgow come back down to Allianz Park for the final round of the group, not as happy hunting ground for them, as they lost there in the quarter finals 2 seasons ago, without really doing themselves justice in the game.

This time we know that Sarries have qualified already and Glasgow may or may not be through, depending on other results, starting with the Edinburgh v Montpellier game on Friday night. If our big brothers down the M8 win, then we will know we are through before we kick off. Otherwise it might be squeaky bum time awiting the result at Welford Rd.

Are Sarries likely to take it easy and rest a few knowing that they are already through? Not a chance, they will want to win the group and get top seeding for the knock outs. This is likely to be the toughest game of the season so far for the Warriors.

Having said that, we played well against them in the 1st round, taking some physical toll on them and showing that on its day, our pack is not as powder puff as it is sometimes reckoned to be. In truth we had our chances in the game and should have taken some points from it and if we had, maybe would not be worrying about qualification now. In the game, we won a decent amount of ball, but struggled with the very hard pressing Sarries defence and could never really get our backs away to do what they do best. It remains to be seen if we have learnt anything from the experience and if we can adapt tacvtically. I don't think it is going to be any great mystery in the way Sarries are going to try and play us, it just remains to be seen if we can do anything about it.

Either way, expect a good game and lots of Glasgow fans to make the trip down, or even up, for those like me who already live in London! It will be a bit colder than last time, but a good day out none the less.

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Post by RDW on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:25 pm

Glasgow accuracy really lacking

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Post by clivemcl on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:26 pm

Itoje ripped that ball after Glasgow players knee was grounded ur?

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Post by RDW on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:35 pm

Strange game this - Sarries appear to be dominating but it's still only 5 points

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:51 pm

Been crazy by Glasgow in the second half. Instead of concentrating on their stunning attack, they have been trying to out niggle Sarries. A lot of cheap hits going on.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:53 pm

Itoje deservedly MotM.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:57 pm

Scoreline harsh on Glasgow, but I guess Sarries were controlling the game for the last 60 minutes

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:57 pm

jimbopip wrote:I had my money, metaphorically not literally- Bru will tell you every pound is a prisoner with me, on Glasgow throwing this game and lulling sarries into a false sense of security then gubbing them in the quarter final.

Wrong again. Doh


Actually.


Glasgow leaving with zero points and qualifying as runners up. Probably away to Sarries. Sarries having beaten us three times on the bounce will be confident, hopefully complacent.

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Post by RDW on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 2:58 pm

Well it was a valient effort from Glasgow, and a good first half, but ultimately they were let down badly by inaccuracies which has been the story of the last month for Glasgow.

The injuries really didn't help - especially in the line-out - but Glasgow had plenty chances just failed to make the most of them.

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Post by Cyril on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:05 pm

Good win by Sarries. Comfortable by the end.

Do Glasgow normally put in this many cheap shots and niggle or was it just because they were dominated. Considering Sarries get criticism it’s certsinly difficult to like this Glasgow side on that showing.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:06 pm

Cyril wrote:Good win by Sarries. Comfortable by the end.

Do Glasgow normally put in this many cheap shots and niggle or was it just because they were dominated. Considering Sarries get criticism it’s certsinly difficult to like this Glasgow side on that showing.
Sarries were not far behind in dishing out cheap shots.

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Post by RDW on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:07 pm

Cyril wrote:Good win by Sarries. Comfortable by the end.

Do Glasgow normally put in this many cheap shots and niggle or was it just because they were dominated. Considering Sarries get criticism it’s certsinly difficult to like this Glasgow side on that showing.

There was a lot of niggle in the first game so I suspect it was an overflow from that. They do need to concentre more on the game though.

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Post by 123456789. on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:11 pm

I think Glasgow have suffered predominantly from a lack of depth here. With each substitution we seem to have got a bit weaker. They are without Maitland and Farrell and still going toe to toe. I think the first half is to blue print on how to beat this lot, the second half how not to. I think we have seen that Fusaro and Harley, whilst quality players at their level and certainly Glasgow legends are perhaps underpowered when it comes to these kinds of games. If we do have them again in the quarters then I would love it if we beat them.
If we are to beat them we need Stuart Hogg back to his absolute best, he seems to have lost a bit of pace. I'm hoping that's not the hip. Huw Jones needs to play, Grigg is a good player with an enormous amount of heart but Huw Jones is a big game player with quality in abundance. Sam Johnson is quality and was the best player in the pitch in the second half. We missed Gibbins today, Fusaro was not enough of a presence at the break down. The props were outstanding but Glasgow need Turner and Brown back fit for the quarters, for the lineout and for the loose. I'd say this game was lost at the lineout and at the breakdown, losing Gibbins, Brown and Gray enormously impacts on that. I don't think the gap is as big as the score line suggests , before Glasgow started throwing hail marys it was a five point game and the next round will be a straight knockout, without the permutations regarding tries and losing bonus points. If we can get Hogg, Gray, Brown, Gibbins and Jones firing all cylinders I think we could do them, and not necessarily by a small margin.
There is something I don't like about Saracens. It's the wolfpack, the plastic flags. The condescending smiles when they get a decision off of the referee. It's Liam Williams and Maro Itoje. It's the rich owner throwing money about. But more than anything it's that they do this and win whilst they do it, well played today chaps and congrats for finishing top not just in the group but in the whole competition. Considering the structure of English rugby means you're so up against it against other European sides that's no mean feat.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:15 pm

Seems like Glasgow started great but got pulled into a game that didn't suit them. Lineouts seemed to struggle. The game in the quarters could be a different animal with so many of the players on both sides involved in the 6N.

So looks like winners of Sarries v Glasgow play winners of Edinburgh v Munster (or Exeter). Maybe a cunning plan to get a Scottish Finalist.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:21 pm

Sarries reminds me of the Russian boxer in Rocky. Just this cold calculated machine that was there to win and just doesn't care how others feel. Just has a sense of inevitability that they will catch you and beat you by the end of the game

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Post by Eejit on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:31 pm

First of all, Saracens are brilliant. Truly a world class side that would beat most international sides so fair play.

Not as bad a result as I was expecting and we certainly took it to them. If results land where I suspect they do we will probably have them in the next round as well. They are definitely beatable but Hastings might be too wet behind the years yet to manage it.

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Post by George Carlin on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 3:58 pm

Cyril wrote:Good win by Sarries. Comfortable by the end.

Do Glasgow normally put in this many cheap shots and niggle or was it just because they were dominated. Considering Sarries get criticism it’s certsinly difficult to like this Glasgow side on that showing.
You are aware that in the last match Itoje was told off by the referee for mimicking Glasgow players shouting in celebration when Itoje knew that a Glasgow try had just been chalked off?

He screamed it into their faces and walked off laughing. It was all caught on camera. Really classy.

Nobody's halo remains as bright after this series of two games, so nobody should deceive themselves.
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Post by Exiledinborders on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 4:04 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Cyril wrote:Good win by Sarries. Comfortable by the end.

Do Glasgow normally put in this many cheap shots and niggle or was it just because they were dominated. Considering Sarries get criticism it’s certsinly difficult to like this Glasgow side on that showing.
You are aware that in the last match Itoje was told off by the referee for mimicking Glasgow players shouting in celebration when Itoje knew that a Glasgow try had just been chalked off?

He screamed it into their faces and walked off laughing. It was all caught on camera. Really classy.

Nobody's halo remains as bright after this series of two games, so nobody should deceive themselves.
Itoje goes in for this sort of thing. As you say not classy. Reacting is just dull though.

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 5:02 pm

Just a thought Whistle

Last time at the Allianz we lost 38-13.

Today we lost 38-19

We should beat them in 2023. Yahoo

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 5:09 pm

Itoje was immaculate today. Lots of goading none by him. And he still gets in the neck.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 5:57 pm

Well, Sarries were the better side on the day. Ref was about 50-50 in total. Niggle was all over the place. Thing is, that game was for the taking by Glasgow and we just lacked that last little bit of oomph in the second half. In the first, it was a tight one. Losing Gray and Wilson (the final member of our starting back-row last week) early in the second really appeared to cost us as go forward. As much as Sarries beat us the last two games, neither time was comfortable for them. Those last 2 tries in the flatter what was a tough game.

Itoje's face did not exactly light up when the interviewer said Glasgow are through and likely to be playing you either. I don't think the Glasgow players would really mind playing Sarries. Far rather play them than Racing or Leinster.

Couple of questions for Sarries fans
- Why was Lozowski not at 10? I thought that was his position for a while and Goode has not played 10 that often?
- Who else was missing outside of Farrell and Maitland? I assume he will be back and Maitland might be around as well. I assume Figallo for the back-up spot?

For Scotland, I think Stewart did enough today to earn the back-up spot. Kerr was not overwhelming for Leicester and Cherry got all of 5-10 minutes behind McInally. The line-out was poor but it was the same with Bryce that makes me think it was the caller. They were fine with Stewart in the scrum against what was an excellent front 5. Brown and Turner are both a class above this group at present.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 6:20 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Far rather play them than Racing or Leinster.

Really? You think Glasgow want to play the European champions from two of the last three seasons and number one qualifier for the quarters. Are they masochists?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 6:27 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
For Scotland, I think Stewart did enough today to earn the back-up spot. Kerr was not overwhelming for Leicester and Cherry got all of 5-10 minutes behind McInally. The line-out was poor but it was the same with Bryce that makes me think it was the caller. They were fine with Stewart in the scrum against what was an excellent front 5. Brown and Turner are both a class above this group at present.

Kerr was very good. Lineout worked bar one throw, scrum went well and about edged the set piece. Covered the ground well, win a couple of turnovers and carried ok. First half he comfortably outplayed Best. Second half he tired as Ulster turned up the pressure.

He's got a burgeoning reputation at Tigers and most fans have his named pencilled in as starting hooker by the end of next season which is an accomplishment for a player who started the season as the development option behind four senior experienced hookers. We'll be delighted to have him back at Leicester if you don't want him in the match day squad as both Tom Youngs and Polotau-Nau are injured.

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Post by TJ on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 10:43 pm

cyril.  Its history.

last season Sarries bullied Glasgow.  This season Glasgow decided not to be bullied.  Result niggle from  Sarries who are masters at it  and Glasgow got in their faces.  Ryan Wilson is a master at it as well.

I doubt any fan of either side saw too much wrong.  How do you deal with bullies?  Stand up to them.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sat 19 Jan 2019, 10:52 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Far rather play them than Racing or Leinster.

Really? You think Glasgow want to play the European champions from two of the last three seasons and number one qualifier for the quarters. Are they masochists?

I would think so. Leinster are the scariest team in the competition. Racing probably play the closest style to Glasgow, but have looked fairly devastating. Sarries are the devil we know, the players will be amped for it and neither time did Glasgow feel out of it.

You probably have to be a masochist to play at this level.

As for Kerr, the first thing I think I saw him do was give away a penalty for an intentional knock-on. His workrate was good. The Ulster pack has improved, but their scrum is not on the same level as a Sarries front 5 of Vunipola-George-Koch-Itoje-Kruis that were creaking today. The line-outs he probably has the biggest lead on Stewart. He plays in England which may mean we should cap him as it is close between him and Stewart, but Stewart is playing with real confidence right now (if you excuse his non-tackle when defending next to Hastings) and will likely be playing alongside a fair few of his Glasgow teammates. Neither one will be playing when Brown and/or Turner is back unless they really show something in the first couple of games

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 8:18 am

TJ wrote:cyril.  Its history.

last season Sarries bullied Glasgow.  This season Glasgow decided not to be bullied.  Result niggle from  Sarries who are masters at it  and Glasgow got in their faces.  Ryan Wilson is a master at it as well.

I doubt any fan of either side saw too much wrong.  How do you deal with bullies?  Stand up to them.

Problem is, while Glasgow were busy standing up to Saracens, in the second half the home side largely ignored them and got on with the business of stealing the ball and winning the game.

In both matches I feel that Glasgow allowed themselves to be distracted, and suffered for it.

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Post by TJ on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 9:36 am

Perhaps.  I think in the end Sarries class ( buying power?) showed.  Glasgow were missing too many critical players  To me sarries look like potential / probable winners

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 9:39 am

Buying power and academy. They do produce some fantastic players.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 10:02 am

Well we had a great day out at Allianz, but it was not quite to be. We certainly gave it a good crack though.

Funny sort of game though, us knowing we needed to score 4 and deny them the BP, it made a chuck about in the 1st half almost inevitable and once they had their 4th try in their sights the result became inevitable.

The injuries killed us though I would say. Losing Gray, Stewart and Wilson, probably our three most physical players meant that we were up against it once they tightened up their game. Being able to bring a player like Skelton off the bench is just scary and we were just to lightweight in the last 20 mins to deal with it. The final score did flatter sarries a bit though, it was a closer match than that.

I don't mind coming back for the quarters. That will be a different game, a straight knock out this time and I think we have potentially a much stronger team to put out if the injury gods are kind to us. It is the handiest game for me to go and see as well and hopefully the weather will be better, it was Baltic yesterday.

A lot will depend on how the 6N goes and what kind of shape some of the international players come out of the tournament in. Our lot looked cooked the last time but there will probably be less Glasgow players involved with Scotland this time around, which may help us.

Going to watch it on tv now. I was sitting just in front of Dave Rennie, so might even get to see myself!

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 10:06 am

And coaching. They have sensible recruitment, ie not splashing big money, and improve the players coming in.

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Post by lostinwales on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 11:06 am

LondonTiger wrote:And coaching. They have sensible recruitment, ie not splashing big money, and improve the players coming in.

Starting to sound like the 'but what did the Romans ever do for us' scene

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Post by 123456789. on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 4:22 pm

With Toulouse winning comfortably it seems inevitable that Glasgow will be back at the Allianz. It's also becoming apparent that the Glasgow players and the Saracens players really don't like each other. I can't remember when but I've certainly heard Billy Vunipola say that beating Scotland would mean more to him than any other game this six nations because of the experience that England got at Murrayfield last year. Factor in the Scotland-England game and the international contingents of both teams will have played one another in big games four times this year. (must be an awkward one for Maitland and Taylor). If Ryan Wilson manages them all without a yellow card then Glasgow's sports psychologist needs a pay rise, it was not that long ago that the powers that be at the SRU had palpitations every time he walked past a fast food restaurant.


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Post by Eejit on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 5:36 pm

Clearly there was a bit of niggle there, saw it clear as day yesterday. No doubt Batman was the instigator.

Can’t say the same about their fans though. Absolute gents who love a beer and were extremely welcoming.

That said it’s all confirmed now so looking forward to celebrating Brexit weekend with Glasgow pumping Sarries out of Europe!

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Post by BigGee on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 5:42 pm

Eejit wrote:Clearly there was a bit of niggle there, saw it clear as day yesterday. No doubt Batman was the instigator.

Can’t say the same about their fans though. Absolute gents who love a beer and were extremely welcoming.

That said it’s all confirmed now so looking forward to celebrating Brexit weekend with Glasgow pumping Sarries out of Europe!

Hopefully it will be at bit warmer in march, it was Baltic there yesterday!

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Post by VinceWLB on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 6:07 pm

This made me think of the various Glasgow-Munster matches of past seasons where there were a lot of niggles too, actually probably even more. Munster are basically the same as Saracens in Pro 14. It seems Glasgow like to be in their face and they don't like it.

It's rather a shame about the lock position for Glasgow which is an obvious weakness but they do seem better equipped than ever at props.
Still, Edinburgh are the real deal and still have the better set of forwards.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 7:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Buying power and academy. They do produce some fantastic players.
Buying power, academy and great coaching. Players get better when they go to Sarries.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 7:26 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Buying power and academy. They do produce some fantastic players.
Buying power, academy and great coaching. Players get better when they go to Sarries.

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