Dragons Season Thread - 2019/20 aka Year 1 of the new 5 Year Plan

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Post by Stone Motif on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

RiscaGame wrote:A good win for Dragons. Wonder if George North might get banned this week for more shethousery. Guy is turning into a dirty get down there.

Wasn’t too convinced by the subs we made, but they turned out to be wise choices. That includes Tovey steadying the ship and kicking the winner and surprisingly Suter being solid in the scrum.
It's an amazing win given the Ospreys dominance. If they'd have made the right calls our luck would have run out I think.
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Post by Stone Motif on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 11:25 am

LordDowlais wrote:I see that Dragons are burning bridges:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/newport-rfc-dragons-rodney-parade-17349029

They were told to stop subsidising the semi pro tier same as the other regions. Edited - RDW
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Post by The Oracle on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 11:42 am

Are Dragons not just tenants of Rodney Parade now? How are they involved in this? Shouldn't it be between the owners (WRU) and Newport RFC?
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 1:27 pm

I also do agree with Buttress on questioning a semi-pro team playing there. The old clubs are just relics of a by-gone era now, sad for some to hear I know. The truth is they don't really do anything apart from keep a small few people happy. I'd prefer if more focus went into the A teams, and the regional teams of course.

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Post by The Oracle on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 2:36 pm

Questions I'd like answered:

1. What would the other premiership sides say if they found out Newport RFC were being subsidised match day/stadium costs by their regional side? Hardly fair.
2. What has this got to do with the Dragons? The agreement on stadium use is between Newport RFC and the WRU.
3. Why should the Dragons be left paying for any shortfall or costs incurred by Newport hosting matches? The Dragons are merely tenants themselves.
4. Newport RFC already have 10 years free rent at the stadium. If we get to 10 years down the road how on earth are they going to afford to pay rent on top if they can't afford to pay for match day costs?
5. Where are the WRU in all this? They are keeping very quiet about an issue that directly involves them as owners of the ground.

I ask these questions as both a Dragons and Newport RFC fan.
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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 7:58 am

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/18078392.dragons-will-privately-owned-next-season---buttress/
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 9:01 am

Stone Motif wrote:https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/18078392.dragons-will-privately-owned-next-season---buttress/


Interesting that the union wants to sell, but unsurprising. Lots of people calling for the WRU to buy up all the regions and run them, but this demonstrates they do not have the appetite to buy, own and run even one region.
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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 10:51 am

The Oracle wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/18078392.dragons-will-privately-owned-next-season---buttress/


Interesting that the union wants to sell, but unsurprising.  Lots of people calling for the WRU to buy up all the regions and run them, but this demonstrates they do not have the appetite to buy, own and run even one region.  

Let alone the money. If only they had a moment to log in here and get some business advice eh?
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 3:01 pm

People look at the NZ and the Irish model which seems flawless tbh. The WRU probably don't have the nous and have now demonstrated they don't have the appetite either. What does this even mean for the future? Blues were run into the ground by their private owners who think the world starts and ends at Cardiff city centre. Whoever buys Dragons I feel will just be throwing money away, because 1. We need a host of new players to keep up with the pro teams from other countries. 2. We'll need increased investment into the academies. 3. We don't turn enough profit. Not actually sure if we're running at a loss like the others, but if we aren't then that would explain the results all this time. So is there someone who is even willing to do that?

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 3:08 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:People look at the NZ and the Irish model which seems flawless tbh. The WRU probably don't have the nous and have now demonstrated they don't have the appetite either. What does this even mean for the future? Blues were run into the ground by their private owners who think the world starts and ends at Cardiff city centre. Whoever buys Dragons I feel will just be throwing money away, because 1. We need a host of new players to keep up with the pro teams from other countries. 2. We'll need increased investment into the academies. 3. We don't turn enough profit. Not actually sure if we're running at a loss like the others, but if we aren't then that would explain the results all this time. So is there someone who is even willing to do that?

Someone who wants to make a buck or three from developing the cabbage patch.
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Post by Guest on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 5:12 pm

There are major issues within NZ and Irish rugby as well. Different issues, but major.

Let's not forget Wales has been more successful than Ireland in the last 10 years - at test level. That's with a far smaller playing base and far less money, with a far less wealthy grassroots sustaining the game.

Wales has made a mess of regional rugby because it doesn't fit the provincial model like Ireland (or the NZ franchises). There should probably be East, West, and North Wales, with 3 competitive teams, the Gogledd side being a development team as well. 1 in Cardiff that also plays games in Newport; the other in Swansea, that also plays games in Llanielli. You should then keep the Welsh club game strong underneath that and have Llanelli, Pontyridd, Cardiff etc. all playing each other in something mimicking the Super 6 in Scotland, or even the pyramid structure in England. Unfortunately, the level of competition in the league isn't enough to sustain a 2 + 1 regional set up in Wales because they're playing dross like Zebra, historically Connacht, and now the Kings. More than that, Edinburgh, Ulster etc. aren't big enough draws. The heartbeat of Welsh rgby is in the clubs and in killing them you remove the pathway system. The clubs should never been allowed to die and regional rugby should always have been like a Champions League novelty that people attended for the glamour/competition - basically the Champions Cup. But it's not. It means turning out to see the regions lose to poor teams, all of which the Welsh clubs were ahead of in 2003.

So what can you do? Can you resurrect club rugby and kill the regions as they are? Almost certainly not. The only thing we can really do is keep Team Wales strong, keep that as the glamour attraction that makes kids pick up a rugby ball and volunteers helping out at local clubs, not kill off or manage the decline of the tiers below the professional game, and just keep topping it up at the very top - world class coaches, project players - to keep Wales at the top tier for as long as possible.

Either that or, somehow, the Welsh regions are seen as highly profitable teams that people want to buy up. Not sure why that would happen but it would help if the dodgy owners at Swansea and Cardiff football clubs were bought out, they become established Premier League clubs, and some of that money and interest in developing the area filters through to rugby. Unfortunately, Cardiff and Swansea are not Dublin, Manchester, or even Bristol. There's not much in the way of tax breaks; there's not much in the way of a PR and vanity exercise for UAE and another foot in the door to keep buying up British assets. Wales isn't particularly investable, that's the reality. If it doesn't come from within, it doesn't really come.

So you're stuck with just managing things as they are. Not thinking up a dream scenario where the WRU giving lots of money to the Dragons will prove worthwhile. It's good to know the WRU is there to keep things afloat - as happened with the Scarlets a decade or so ago, and now the stadium has helped the financially weakest region become the strongest financially - but it's also better off being run by private owners. This halfway house situation works for Wales. Private ownership with a safety net.

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 5:34 pm

Private ownership with a glass ceiling more like...
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Post by Guest on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 6:13 pm

Yeah because Nigel Wray was apparently eyeing up the Dragons before settling on Saracens...

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 6:37 pm

Being better than Ireland in the last 10 years was down to Gatland and then it was only slightly better. Ireland are always competitive, and look as if they have a better 2nd XV than most as well. Their dominance at club level with the provincial teams' ensures that they aren't weak in a single position, therefore Ireland always remain competitive. If we don't shore up the Welsh game then I imagine team Wales will gradually decline, if it hasn't already begun. It was even the case at times during the reign of Gatland.

Another issue we've often seen in the past is that the regions can't get players ready for international rugby, that's something else Gatland had to do. It is likely to be partly the reason Wales are slow starters, they also don't usually do well in one-off summer games. The same with June tests but to a lesser degree. Ideally, the regions need to be churning out a lot more players who can step up to international rugby, and continue to manage them throughout their professional career. That's what the teams in England, Ireland and NZ keep on doing.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 6:41 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:People look at the NZ and the Irish model which seems flawless tbh. The WRU probably don't have the nous and have now demonstrated they don't have the appetite either. What does this even mean for the future? Blues were run into the ground by their private owners who think the world starts and ends at Cardiff city centre. Whoever buys Dragons I feel will just be throwing money away, because 1. We need a host of new players to keep up with the pro teams from other countries. 2. We'll need increased investment into the academies. 3. We don't turn enough profit. Not actually sure if we're running at a loss like the others, but if we aren't then that would explain the results all this time. So is there someone who is even willing to do that?

Someone who wants to make a buck or three from developing the cabbage patch.

If it's a hotel then I can't see that taking off. We probably have too many hotels in Newport tbh. Apartments would probably earn money, hopefully with underground parking for the sake of everyone living in that area.

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Post by Guest on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 7:09 pm

It's irrelevant saying Wales were 'better because of Gatland'. Of course...but you can't dislocate the WRU/Welsh rugby from that. As I said on the other thread, Wales put their money in to the top tier. Ireland's provincial success is because of who they could attract from overseas, and then Schmidt as well. 3 titles under Schmidt whereas Kidney had 1 - before then, nothing for decades. The success is always partially bought - just ask England and Eddie Jones. Wales have also performed significantly better at RWCs than Ireland. The point is that, despite the difference in monetary strength between unions and club/regions, Wales have done better at test level than Ireland.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 7:19 pm

I wasn't really disagreeing. The reason I say it is because the regions remained so consistently poor throughout his tenure. Gats probably doesn't get enough credit for making Wales remain competitive given that he's basically done it with his hands tied. Yes, Ireland did see the benefit of having a kiwi or SA coach at each province for a number of years; the way Scarlets benefitted from giving Pivac time and then having another kiwi succeed him. It's not irrelevant to say so because Gatland is gone and we don't know if Pivac can do what he did. The WRU and Regions need to shore up the welsh game at the very least, otherwise we'll probably get a re-run of Wales in 1990's.

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 8:28 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:People look at the NZ and the Irish model which seems flawless tbh. The WRU probably don't have the nous and have now demonstrated they don't have the appetite either. What does this even mean for the future? Blues were run into the ground by their private owners who think the world starts and ends at Cardiff city centre. Whoever buys Dragons I feel will just be throwing money away, because 1. We need a host of new players to keep up with the pro teams from other countries. 2. We'll need increased investment into the academies. 3. We don't turn enough profit. Not actually sure if we're running at a loss like the others, but if we aren't then that would explain the results all this time. So is there someone who is even willing to do that?

Someone who wants to make a buck or three from developing the cabbage patch.

If it's a hotel then I can't see that taking off. We probably have too many hotels in Newport tbh. Apartments would probably earn money, hopefully with underground parking for the sake of everyone living in that area.

Utterly wrong on that one, the ICCW is losing conference bookings purely due to the lack of accommodation immediately nearby. Celtic Manor aren't building hotels for nuthin.

And good luck getting underground parking on the cabbage patch. It would probably need a bit of resi to stack though.
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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 8:30 pm

miaow wrote:Yeah because Nigel Wray was apparently eyeing up the Dragons before settling on Saracens...

Yeah, he decided to invest in the team in England with the biggest ticket sales instead, that's where the money is
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 8:50 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:People look at the NZ and the Irish model which seems flawless tbh. The WRU probably don't have the nous and have now demonstrated they don't have the appetite either. What does this even mean for the future? Blues were run into the ground by their private owners who think the world starts and ends at Cardiff city centre. Whoever buys Dragons I feel will just be throwing money away, because 1. We need a host of new players to keep up with the pro teams from other countries. 2. We'll need increased investment into the academies. 3. We don't turn enough profit. Not actually sure if we're running at a loss like the others, but if we aren't then that would explain the results all this time. So is there someone who is even willing to do that?

Someone who wants to make a buck or three from developing the cabbage patch.

If it's a hotel then I can't see that taking off. We probably have too many hotels in Newport tbh. Apartments would probably earn money, hopefully with underground parking for the sake of everyone living in that area.

Utterly wrong on that one, the ICCW is losing conference bookings purely due to the lack of accommodation immediately nearby. Celtic Manor aren't building hotels for nuthin.

And good luck getting underground parking on the cabbage patch. It would probably need a bit of resi to stack though.

Celtic Manor haven't built a hotel for years. Somehow I don't think it's the lack of rooms, but perhaps the price. That's not the only hotel close to the ICCW btw, but having said that I think Celtic Manor now owns all of them around Coldra and Cats Ash - except for Premier Inn. I doubt there'd be shortage around there and that's not including the ones around town. There is also Air B&B. If there is demand for another hotel then go for it I say.

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 9:23 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:People look at the NZ and the Irish model which seems flawless tbh. The WRU probably don't have the nous and have now demonstrated they don't have the appetite either. What does this even mean for the future? Blues were run into the ground by their private owners who think the world starts and ends at Cardiff city centre. Whoever buys Dragons I feel will just be throwing money away, because 1. We need a host of new players to keep up with the pro teams from other countries. 2. We'll need increased investment into the academies. 3. We don't turn enough profit. Not actually sure if we're running at a loss like the others, but if we aren't then that would explain the results all this time. So is there someone who is even willing to do that?

Someone who wants to make a buck or three from developing the cabbage patch.

If it's a hotel then I can't see that taking off. We probably have too many hotels in Newport tbh. Apartments would probably earn money, hopefully with underground parking for the sake of everyone living in that area.

Utterly wrong on that one, the ICCW is losing conference bookings purely due to the lack of accommodation immediately nearby. Celtic Manor aren't building hotels for nuthin.

And good luck getting underground parking on the cabbage patch. It would probably need a bit of resi to stack though.

Celtic Manor haven't built a hotel for years. Somehow I don't think it's the lack of rooms, but perhaps the price. That's not the only hotel close to the ICCW btw, but having said that I think Celtic Manor now owns all of them around Coldra and Cats Ash - except for Premier Inn. I doubt there'd be shortage around there and that's not including the ones around town. There is also Air B&B. If there is demand for another hotel then go for it I say.
they've bought those and want another one. Garrison Barclay have put about £10m into the Chartist Tower, Clarence House, the Crown Building and TJs all have planning consent for hospitality. Think the value of tourism to Newport has increased by about £40m in the here years up to 2018. I'd say a hotel on the patch wouldn't be a bad idea.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 9:50 pm

Yeah I did find it strange about all the hotels going up in the area. Old TJ's... another shocking location for a hotel. It's literally next to a shelter.

Good if the empty buildings are getting some use. What's the old Fitness First on corpa road nowadays? Hell of a car park around the back of there.

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Post by Guest on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 11:05 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
miaow wrote:Yeah because Nigel Wray was apparently eyeing up the Dragons before settling on Saracens...

Yeah, he decided to invest in the team in England with the biggest ticket sales instead, that's where the money is

Exactly. Stop complaining then.

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Post by Stone Motif on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 7:45 am

miaow wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
miaow wrote:Yeah because Nigel Wray was apparently eyeing up the Dragons before settling on Saracens...

Yeah, he decided to invest in the team in England with the biggest ticket sales instead, that's where the money is

Exactly. Stop complaining then.

http://rd.premiershiprugby.com/mobile/stats/attendance.php

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Post by Guest on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 1:36 pm

Come on Stone, you're going to have to show more than that to justify why the WRU should spend money on the unprofitable and poorly attended Dragons instead of hosting another international...

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Post by Stone Motif on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:03 pm

miaow wrote:Come on Stone, you're going to have to show more than that to justify why the WRU should spend money on the unprofitable and poorly attended Dragons instead of hosting another international...

I didn't, I posted it to show you're talking out of your bottle when you whitter in about WRU funding being used to beef up attendances. Attendances are the small cherry on the cake.

I can understand you feel a little bit silly right about now, but I'm going to put the boot in anyway and point out you still seem wedded to that other bizarre fallacy of yours, that the WRU spend money on the regions instead of paying them for services received.
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Post by Guest on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:06 pm

No, see, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. Go and read the actual conversation, not the one you thought you were having.

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Post by Stone Motif on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:16 pm

miaow wrote:No, see, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. Go and read the actual conversation, not the one you thought you were having.

Yeah, I've been down this road before with many an internet clever clogs unable to back up his BS when called on it. "I don't understand! That isn't what I meant"!

miaow wrote: The Dragons can't get 4k a game in a city of 150k. You literally cannot take the risk that pumping money in to the regions to maybe sort-of hopefully make them competitive will lead to long term rises in attendance.
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Post by Guest on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:26 pm

If you're running in to the problem of people saying you're as clear as mud, the issue is you. Again, your 'argument' (very generous to call it that) literally makes no sense. You've wrapped yourself in a knot criticising the WRU and the Dragons in two separate ways, and you're basically left with bashing each. Now you don't know how to worm your way out of it. Not very clever of you.

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Post by Stone Motif on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:37 pm

miaow wrote:If you're running in to the problem of people saying you're as clear as mud, the issue is you. Again, your 'argument' (very generous to call it that) literally makes no sense. You've wrapped yourself in a knot criticising the WRU and the Dragons in two separate ways, and you're basically left with bashing each. Now you don't know how to worm your way out of it. Not very clever of you.

Nice try at deflecting. Now, putting the posts back where they should be, why on earth do you think the WRU would 'spend' money on beefing up regional attendances again?


Last edited by Stone Motif on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:52 pm

Jack Cosgrove retires due to injury. Wonder if we bring in a replacement now or at the season's end. If I were to re-jig the squad then he is probably someone I would cut anyway.

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Post by Guest on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 2:57 pm

You tell me, Stone. You're the one arguing for WRU investment instead of internationals when the region is nowhere near profitable, competitive, well attended, nor managed, and hasn't been for at least a decade. Diminishing returns - the money is better spent elsewhere, like another Welsh game. Keep up or give up. One of the two as this is really boring.

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Post by Stone Motif on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 9:30 pm

miaow wrote:You tell me, Stone. You're the one arguing for WRU investment instead of internationals when the region is nowhere near profitable, competitive, well attended, nor managed, and hasn't been for at least a decade. Diminishing returns - the money is better spent elsewhere, like another Welsh game. Keep up or give up. One of the two as this is really boring.

Ah, now we're onto that pillar of faith of the out of their depth. I'm bored. Your team is rubbish. I'm getting a bit sick of your Andy Howell impression myself but you dug this ditch to die in.

I'll dumb it down one last time. The WRU should pay the market rate for the unrivalled access it enjoys to Team Wales players and the commercially restrictive impositions it's 'funding' carries for the pro teams.

Again, it isn't funding, it's payment.

It can't, because it can't play any more internationals. The only option for it to prevent the inevitable decline of the regions - it's supply chain - is to increase their ability to command greater income from TV and competition monies. That means at the very least stopping them being forced to tap into an over inflated market for Welsh players the WRU has created with its NWQ limits, which have created squads littered with jobbing players no fitter to play pro rugby than you probably are.

It also means allowing the pro sides the same access other countries do to their best players. It for damn sure means giving the regions the entirety of their CVC money and not wasting a single penny on the community game or it's own union projects, when it has done nothing to earn a share. Badly managed, you say? That starts at the top like everything else in this lopsided pyramid.

Now, you have proven at every turn you understand less about how the regions are financed, and the grave reality facing pro rugby in Wales, than Taylor Swift probably does. The last thing Welsh rugby needs is another know nothing WRU stooge willing to doff the cap to the union while it flushes professional rugby down the loo, however appropriate a place that may be for your outpourings. Be off with you.
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Post by Guest on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 11:11 pm

I believe this is a perfect example of the Dunning Kruger effect. Confidence without competence. It's genuinely not even worth the effort, the amount of straw you're working with there is a fire hazard, even at this time of year. Chalk this one up in the 'bored to death' column.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 11:56 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Jack Cosgrove retires due to injury. Wonder if we bring in a replacement now or at the season's end. If I were to re-jig the squad then he is probably someone I would cut anyway.

Real shame for him still. Looking pretty bare at loosehead really, as we can't rely on Aaron Jarvis' fitness particularly and Reynolds is possibly not quite ready yet.

I can't believe that the Zebre 8 has only had 6 weeks for biting Keddie. The entry point and then halving guff is a load of nonsense.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:12 pm

South Wales Argus wrote:Worcester: N Heward, P Humphreys, O Lawrence, R Mills, N David, J Shillcock, M Heaney, R Bower, M Moulds, C Carey, A Kitchener, J Clegg, T Dodd, M Cox, GJ van Velze (captain). Replacements: I Miller, K Owen, R Palframan, J Scott, M Monks, J Kitto, G Simpson, C Pennell.​

Dragons: W Talbot-Davies, O Jenkins, T Morgan, T Griffiths, A Hewitt, S Davies, R Williams (captain), B Harris, R Hibbard, L Brown, J Davies, M Screech, A Wainwright, O Griffiths, T Basham. Replacements: E Dee, J Reynolds, A Jarvis, M Williams, H Taylor, L Baldwin, J Botica, A Warren.

Referee: Marius Mitrea (Italy)

Crikey, we seem to get Marius a lot.

A little surprised to see Dee on the bench. There is a fair bit to like about that team, especially with Griffiths back in the centre. I would probably have had Warren instead of Morgan, possibly Williams over Big Joe Davies and certainly Dee over Hibbard.

A little strange that Jarvis is the tighthead cover this week.

Coverage again on the EPCR website, same as the first two games.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:17 pm

Bloody hell, Chris Pennell's still going. He must be a fair age now, mustn't he? Looked a classy player every time I saw him play.

On the hookers, I think on balance I'd rather have Dee coming off the bench than Hibbard. That way you're strengthening your side rather than weakening it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:28 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
South Wales Argus wrote:Worcester: N Heward, P Humphreys, O Lawrence, R Mills, N David, J Shillcock, M Heaney, R Bower, M Moulds, C Carey, A Kitchener, J Clegg, T Dodd, M Cox, GJ van Velze (captain). Replacements: I Miller, K Owen, R Palframan, J Scott, M Monks, J Kitto, G Simpson, C Pennell.​

Dragons: W Talbot-Davies, O Jenkins, T Morgan, T Griffiths, A Hewitt, S Davies, R Williams (captain), B Harris, R Hibbard, L Brown, J Davies, M Screech, A Wainwright, O Griffiths, T Basham. Replacements: E Dee, J Reynolds, A Jarvis, M Williams, H Taylor, L Baldwin, J Botica, A Warren.

Referee: Marius Mitrea (Italy)

Crikey, we seem to get Marius a lot.

A little surprised to see Dee on the bench. There is a fair bit to like about that team, especially with Griffiths back in the centre. I would probably have had Warren instead of Morgan, possibly Williams over Big Joe Davies and certainly Dee over Hibbard.

A little strange that Jarvis is the tighthead cover this week.

Coverage again on the EPCR website, same as the first two games.

As long as Hibbard isn't knackered after 10 mins we'll be okay. You rate Williams do you? I always thought he was too powder puff.

The back-row is good, but I probably would have put Griffiths at 8. Still, that's the advantage of having three quality open-sides who can play at 6, 7 & 8.

I haven't seen much of Bev or Jarvis this season, or last. BJ's stellar signings again, along with Nansen. It would be difficult to get a LH now unless someone in Western Province is available.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:31 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

On the hookers, I think on balance I'd rather have Dee coming off the bench than Hibbard. That way you're strengthening your side rather than weakening it.

I understand what you're saying, I just think he needs a bit of a rest and I think charging round for 20 minutes like a madman would suit Hibbard, where possible.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:32 pm

True. If we win, it's the right call!

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:33 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:

You rate Williams do you? I always thought he was too powder puff.


Not yet particularly, but I feel like we can bring him on more than Davies, who I rate less.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:34 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

You rate Williams do you? I always thought he was too powder puff.


Not yet particularly, but I feel like we can bring him on more than Davies, who I rate less.

The A team is probably the place for that, but I guess we're another Welsh team without locks.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:39 pm

Which is what we used it for, to be fair.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:42 pm

Ollie Griffiths wrote:“They have caught up pretty well, and it’s a lot to learn from last year, with lineout calls and our style of play. “It’s an exciting time of year,” he added.

Fair point as well. I retract my previous statement about Hibbard, your honour Wink

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 1:27 pm

In an ideal scenario, both locks would be in the A team and we've have better on our books to back up Hill and Screech. They shouldn't really be making the step-up unless they dominated their opposition in that league, which I doubt was ever the case. Hibbard is still hit and miss, don't tend to see many those trademark hits he was known for.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 06 Dec 2019, 1:53 pm

The only game he has put his hits in this season, was Castres, when he was wound up by the possible eye interference.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 4:11 pm

I have to admit that I only seen it once, but I wasn’t too sure if it was a red card. There seems to be a mixed reaction on social media about it.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 07 Dec 2019, 7:19 pm

It’s about time Dean Ryan called out the lack of TMOs. It is farcical and should have been highlighted after round one anyway, with the potential serious foul play on Hibbard.

Good effort by Dragons in battling with 14 men. Bit disappointed with Sam Davies’ kicking today, after saying I was happy with it Very Happy

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:02 am

Given the circumstances, that's a very good point. Needs to be backed up in the return match now.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 9:51 pm

The circumstances? Yes, I'm convinced it wasn't a red card either having reviewed the ruling. When do we know if Basham can return to play this weekend?

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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 10:29 pm

I’m sure I read Wednesday. I have a feeling we are going to be shafted, as EPCR aren’t going to cough to a mistake. Although I agree with Dean Ryan highlighting the farce surrounding the tournament not having TMOs and feel he is correct in what he said, I would wager that Joel Jutge won’t have taken kindly to his post match interview.

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