Ireland U20 2019

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Ireland U20 2019 - Page 3 Empty Ireland U20 2019

Post by profitius on Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ireland U20 Squad (World Rugby U20 Championship 2019)

Forwards
Declan Adamson (Clontarf/Leinster) *
Thomas Ahern (Shannon/Munster) *
Azur Allison (Ballymena/Ulster) *
Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster)
Ciaran Booth (Sale Sharks/IQ Rugby) *
Tom Clarkson (Dublin University/Leinster)
John Hodnett (UCC/Munster)
David McCann (Banbridge/Ulster)
John McKee (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Michael Milne (UCD/Leinster)
Niall Murray (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Charlie Ryan (UCD/Leinster) Captain
Dylan Tierney-Martin (Corinthians/Connacht)
Charlie Ward (Clontarf/Leinster) *
Ronan Watters (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)
Josh Wycherley (Young Munster/Munster)

Backs
Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster) Vice-Captain
Jake Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
Cormac Foley (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)
Sean French (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Ben Healy (Garryowen/Munster)
Iwan Hughes (Ballynahinch/Ulster) *
Angus Kernohan (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Stewart Moore (Malone/Ulster) *
Colm Reilly (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Rob Russell (Dublin University/Leinster)
Liam Turner (Dublin University/Leinster)
Jonathan Wren (Cork Constitution/Munster)

*Denotes uncapped at this level
Unavailable due to injury
Harry Byrne
Brian Deeny
David Hawkshaw
Martin Moloney
Scott Penny
Conor Phillips

Ireland U20 World Rugby U20 Championships Fixtures
Pool A
England v Ireland
Club de Rugby Atheneo Immaculada, Santa Fe
Tuesday 4th June 2019
KO: 15:30 (local) / 19:30 (Irish)

Australia v Ireland
Club de Rugby Atheneo Immaculada, Santa Fe
Saturday 8th June, 2019
KO: 10:30 (local) / 14:30 (Irish)

Italy v Ireland
Club de Rugby Atheneo Immaculada, Santa Fe
Wednesday 12th June, 2019
KO: 10:30 (local) / 14:30 (Irish)

Semi-Finals / Play-Offs
Racecourse Stadium, Rosario OR Club Old Resian, Rosario
Monday 17th June 2019

Finals Day
Racecourse Stadium, Rosario / Club Old Resian, Rosario
Saturday 22nd June 2019

Broadcast Information
Ireland’s games will be shown live on Eir Sport in the Republic of Ireland, with ITV holding UK TV rights. If games are not shown live on TV, they will be streamed via World Rugby Online Channels.


_------------------------
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6 nations info

Squad announced early today. Big 40 man squad.


Their final game of the tournament is away to Wales on the 15th March in Colwyn Bay.

Tickets for the home fixtures in Irish Independent Park are available from www.ticketmaster.ie

IRELAND U20 Squad, sponsored by PwC, for the U20 Six Nations Championship 2019



Forwards:
Azur Allison (Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
Ryan Baird (Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Tom Clarkson (Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Giuseppe Coyne (Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Brian Deeney (Clontarf FC/Leinster)
John Hodnett (UCC RFC/Munster)
Paddy Kelly (Young Munster RFC/Munster)
Ryan Lomas (Galwegians RFC/Connacht)
Luke Masters (Shannon RFC/Munster)
David McCann (Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
JJ McKee (Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
John McKee (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster)
Michael Milne (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Martin Moloney (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster)
Niall Murray (Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Scott Penny (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Charlie Ryan (UCD RFC/Leinster) * Vice-Captain
Billy Scannell (Young Munster RFC/Munster)
Dylan Tierney-Martin (Corinthians RFC/Connacht) *
Ronan Watters (St. Mary's College RFC/Leinster)
Josh Wycherley (Young Munster RFC/Munster)

Backs:
Harry Byrne (Lansdowne FC/Leinster) *
Craig Casey (Shannon RFC/Munster) Vice-Captain
Jake Flannery (Shannon RFC/Munster)
Sean French (Cork Constitution RFC/Munster)
Cormac Foley (St. Mary's College RFC/Leinster)
David Hawkshaw (Clontarf FC/Old Belvedere) Captain
Ben Healy (Garryowen RFC/Munster)
Bruce Houston (Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
Iwan Hughes (Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
Angus Kernohan (Queen's University RFC / Ulster) *
James McCarthy (UL Bohemian RFC/Munster) *
Stewart Moore (Malone RFC/Ulster)
Oli Morris (Saracens / IQ Rugby)
Aaron O'Sullivan (UCD RFC/Leinster/IQ Rugby)
Conor Phillips (Young Munster RFC/Munster)
Colm Reilly (Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Rob Russell (Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Liam Turner (Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Jonathan Wren (Cork Constitution FC/Munster)

*Denotes Previously Capped at U20 level


IRELAND U20 Six Nations Fixtures 2019
Friday 1st February 2019
Ireland U20 v England U20, 7.15pm, Irish Independent Park, Cork
Live on RTE

Friday 8th February 2019
Scotland U20 v Ireland U20, 7.30pm. Netherdale, Galashiels
TBC

Friday 22nd February 2019
Italy U20 v Ireland U20, Stadio Centro d'Italia, Rieti
Stream via FIR - Facebook.com/Federugby & Youtube.com/Fedrugby

Friday 8th March 2019
Ireland U20 v France U20, 7.15pm, Irish Independent Park, Cork
Live on RTE

Friday 15th March 2019
Wales U20 v Ireland U20, 7.15pm, Stadwim Zip World (Parc Eirias), Colwyn Bay
Live on RTE



Positions
LH Prop
Michael Milne(Roscrea/UCD)
Josh Whycerely(Roscrea/Young Munster)
Guiseppe Coyne(Blackrock/DUFC)

TH Prop
Thomas Clarkson(Blackrock/DUFC) - u19
Ryan Lomas(Roscrea/Galwegians)
Luke Masters(CBC/Shannon)

Hooker
Dylan Tierney(Corinthians)
Billy Scannell(PBC/Young Munster)
John McKee(Campbell/Old Belvedere) - u19

Lock
Charlie Ryan(Blackrock/UCD)
Ryan Baird(St. Michaels/DUFC)
JJ McKee(Antrim/Ballymena)
Brian Deeny(Wexford/Clontarf) - u19
Paddy Kelly(St. Munchins/Young Munster) - u19

Backrow
Scott Penny(St. Michaels/UCD)
Martin Moloney(Athy/Old Belvedere)
John Hodnett(Clonakilty/UCC)
Azur Allison(Ballymena/Ballymena)
Niall Murray(Buccaneers)
David McCann(RBAI/Banbridge) - u19
Ronan Watters(St. Marys/St. Marys)

Scrumhalf
Craig Casey(Ard Scoil Ris/Shannon)
Colm Reilly(Buccaneers)
Cormac Foley(St. Gerards/St. Marys)

Outhalf
Harry Byrne(St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Ben Healy(Glenstal/Garryowen)
Bruce Houston(Ballymena/Ballymena)

Centre
Sean French(PBC/Cork Con)
David Hawkshaw(Belvedere/Clontarf)
Stewart Moore(Ballymena/Malone)
Oli Morris(Exile) - u19

Back 3
Iwan Hughes(Exile/Ballynahinch)
James McCarthy(Exile/UL Bohs)
Angus Kernohen(Ballymena/Ballymena)
Aaron O'Sullivan(Exile/)
Liam Turner(Blackrock/DUFC)
Jonathan Wren(PBC/Cork Con)
Conor Phillips(Crescent/Young Munster)
Jake Flannery(Rockwell/Shannon)
Rob Russell(St. Michaels/DUFC)


Last edited by profitius on Wed May 29, 2019 1:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by profitius on Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:09 am

Tom Ahern is 6'8 and Ryan is 6'7. They need to bulk up a bit though. Ahern and Baird will get senior caps imo. Charlie Ryan could be a decent squad player for one of the provinces.


Booth and McCann are flying home. So the backrow is now without Penny, Moloney, Hodnett, Booth and McCann. Watters might be back after his concussion.
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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:14 pm

Wasn't that only 8 days ago?

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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:40 pm

Watters is in.
Two Ulstermen in the 28 - was Moore injured?

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Post by The Great Aukster on Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:42 pm

Great game from Ireland, totally outplayed England but made too many handling errors. This team will learn a lot more against NZ than against Wales in the next game so the result is no bad thing.
Don't know who's coaching England but surely they should be taught more than to be a playground bully as that won't work when they leave school. Josh Hodge looked by far their most likely candidate to make it all the way.
It was noticeable that Craig Casey played his quietest game so far and maybe that's because he's been told to reel it in and maybe it's because this game doesn't matter but the value of this tournament is what he will have learned on the way.

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Post by Cyril on Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:50 pm

That pitch was appalling. Argentina shouldn’t be given these tournaments if that’s the dross they provide.

Cracking discipline and patient build-up by England for the final try. Not sure what game Aukster was watching if he thought Ireland ‘totally outplayed’ England Wink A lot of kick-chase and attempted choke tackles by the Irish. Now where have we seen that before?

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:19 pm

Cyril wrote: A lot of kick-chase and attempted choke tackles by the Irish. Now where have we seen that before?

From the Grand Slam winning Welsh team?

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Post by Cyril on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:37 pm

Nah, Wales play a bit of rugby now.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:50 pm

Cyril wrote:That pitch was appalling. Argentina shouldn’t be given these tournaments if that’s the dross they provide.
To be fair, there was a huge thunderstorm earlier, which caused play to be suspended in the first matches. I doubt any country can provide pitches which will look good after suffering a downpour, and then having rugby played on them continously.

Although three southern hemisphere teams made the semi finals, yesterday's results mean that all four Rugby Championship nations lost to a northern hemisphere opponent, while England didn't lose to any southern team (we only played Australia), which suggests neither hemisphere has dominated the other at this tournament. (I'd still rather have made the semi-finals, mind you).

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Post by Taylorman on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:43 am

Yes weird results, some seemingly heavily card dependent. Some high scores, except when Thor plays a part.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:55 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
Cyril wrote:That pitch was appalling. Argentina shouldn’t be given these tournaments if that’s the dross they provide.
To be fair, there was a huge thunderstorm earlier, which caused play to be suspended in the first matches. I doubt any country can provide pitches which will look good after suffering a downpour, and then having rugby played on them continously.

Although three southern hemisphere teams made the semi finals, yesterday's results mean that all four Rugby Championship nations lost to a northern hemisphere opponent, while England didn't lose to any southern team (we only played Australia), which suggests neither hemisphere has dominated the other at this tournament. (I'd still rather have made the semi-finals, mind you).

I don't think Ireland would have lost to Australia either if it wasn't for the red but we will never know.

Good win for England yesterday, not much between Ireland England and Wales at under 20s either it seems.

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Post by profitius on Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:55 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
Cyril wrote:That pitch was appalling. Argentina shouldn’t be given these tournaments if that’s the dross they provide.
To be fair, there was a huge thunderstorm earlier, which caused play to be suspended in the first matches. I doubt any country can provide pitches which will look good after suffering a downpour, and then having rugby played on them continously.

Although three southern hemisphere teams made the semi finals, yesterday's results mean that all four Rugby Championship nations lost to a northern hemisphere opponent, while England didn't lose to any southern team (we only played Australia), which suggests neither hemisphere has dominated the other at this tournament. (I'd still rather have made the semi-finals, mind you).


It's been very competitive. Australia might not have made it to the semis if Ireland didn't beat England! Just goes to show you need a bit of luck.


We (Ireland) will probably end up with a Poopie group again next year because of the seedings.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:25 am

profitius wrote:

We (Ireland) will probably end up with a Poopie group again next year because of the seedings.

Which proves you gotta do more than look good or play well - you have to win. Ireland are still in that no-man's land. Good enough to beat the best...good enough to come last. We're a strange nation in sporting terms. The philosophy, psychology still isn't just right. Needs much work still.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:02 am

Not really, this u20 team are top cladd they've proven it in every game they've played. Atrocious luck with injuries has crippled them but they've still given it a right go. You take 11 players out of any squad and that's going to kill them.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:44 am

We're always plagued with injuries at inopportune times - both junior and senior level. Something else to more fully work on long term...repeating issue. Let's hope the curse doesn't hit us too badly pre and during the WC

Let's see what placing the U20s come out with

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:41 am

Cameron Redpath just got a 3 month ban for biting an Irish guy.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2019/0621/1056673-england-player-gets-3-month-ban-for-biting-irish-u20/

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Post by SecretFly on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:25 pm

Looking to take Hartley's place in the English squad? Ambitious kid. Good opportunism.

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Post by ebop on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:38 pm

Never understood this biting thing in rugby. What is that about, is it mummy issues?
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Post by SecretFly on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:46 pm

Yeah..I find it strange too.  But then, unlike other field sports, it does goad players into the instincts used in combat.  I mean, they need to get to those combative emotions - hitting people, knocking people to the ground, grappling with people on the ground....

You know when you play with your big softie of a dog and the pretend fights get a little too enthusiastic, and the big softie can't resist his instincts any longer and nips you harder with his teeth than usual?

I guess it's something along those lines - for an instant, the primitive instincts take over.

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Post by ebop on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:08 pm

But to bite someone? That’s the kind of thing a 3 year old does in daycare when they have a little tantrum. Nup, not buying this primal combative stuff SecretFly. It’s more than that. These players that bite surely have unresolved issues. There’s brain snaps and red mist and all of that but to actually bite someone as a result!? That is next level. Who is this English guy that took a bite? Is he a mummy’s boy from a fancy private school that is used to getting his own way?
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:11 pm

Son of ex Scotland international Bryan Redpath

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Post by ebop on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:14 pm

Playing for England, ouch
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Post by SecretFly on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:28 pm

ebop wrote:But to bite someone? That’s the kind of thing a 3 year old does in daycare when they have a little tantrum. Nup, not buying this primal combative stuff SecretFly. It’s more than that. These players that bite surely have unresolved issues. There’s brain snaps and red mist and all of that but to actually bite someone as a result!? That is next level. Who is this English guy that took a bite? Is he a mummy’s boy from a fancy private school that is used to getting his own way?

Maybe they think they IS dogs? Stranger fantasies already exist.


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Post by ebop on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:34 pm

Yeah true, or maybe someone with the will power of a 3 year old
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Post by SecretFly on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:47 pm

Anyway, I wouldn't go too hard on the young chap...... just a red must slip of the dentures on his part. I'd just give him a good yapping to and a bite on the arse.

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Post by lostinwales on Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:22 pm

Well he will be playing after his ban works out, but unfortunately in ebop's mind he'll always be guilty of playing for England.

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Post by ebop on Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:39 pm

He only sunk his teeth into another player. I’m sure it was just an accident. Mistimed tackles that hit the head = very bad, tut tut, make a big deal about it and throw book at them. Biting a player = mmmm, ok, ummm, do the ban and move on eh because it’s a bit of a weirdo thing to do and we want to sweep this stuff under the carpet.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:22 pm

Nah, you're right, ebop.  I'm just being needlessly humorous about it.  It's wrong, shouldn't be tolerated, requires a ban.  I don't know why players do it still though, but I do seriously think it's an instant in time when the brain loses control of instincts.

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:Nah, you're right, ebop.  I'm just being needlessly humorous about it.  It's wrong, shouldn't be tolerated, requires a ban.  I don't know why players do it still though, but I do seriously think it's an instant in time when the brain loses control of instincts.

I was reading an article about the amount of calories the lads have to consume to play at this level. Poor lad might just have been a bit peckish?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:24 pm

Come on maes if you're going to public admonish people who speak ill of Wales be fair and see it through consistently.

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Post by profitius on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:55 pm

Wexford native Brian Deeny runs in his charge-down try during the Ireland Under-20s' play-off clash with England on Monday ©INPHO/Pablo Gasparini

Head coach Noel McNamara has made seven personnel changes and one positional switch to the Ireland Under-20 team (sponsored by PwC) to play New Zealand in Saturday’s 7th-8th place play-off in Rosario (kick-off 1pm local time/5pm Irish time).

As Ireland wrap up the World Rugby U-20 Championship against the Baby Blacks, Leinster duo Max O’Reilly and Brian Deeny come in to make their first U-20 starts at full-back and number 8 respectively. Deeny ran in a superb charge-down try as a second half replacement against England.

Rewarded for their excellent durability and form, Liam Turner and Jake Flannery complete their ever-present runs in the back-line with their tenth consecutive starts. Centre Turner has played all 720 minutes of the U-20s’ matches in 2019, closely followed by the versatile Flannery who has moved between the full-back and out-half positions.

Flannery takes the reins at number 10 this weekend, combining at half-back with his Shannon and Munster colleague Craig Casey. O’Reilly, Angus Kernohan, Cormac Foley and Rob Russell are the other changes behind the scrum, the latter two having both touched down against Italy last week.

Ireland’s starting front row from their U-20 Six Nations Grand Slam-winning campaign is restored – Josh Wycherley and Thomas Clarkson pack down either side of talismanic hooker Dylan Tierney-Martin – and the final alteration sees Ulster’s Azur Allison make way for Deeny in the back row.

No matter the result on Saturday, McNamara’s charges will claim Ireland’s best World Rugby U-20 Championship finish in three years. The play-off clash will be broadcast live on eir Sport 1 and there will be live streaming via the World Rugby website in certain regions. Tickets are available from www.ticketek.com.ar.

IRELAND UNDER-20 Team & Replacements (v New Zealand Under-20s, 2019 World Rugby U-20 Championship – 7th-8th Place Play-Off, Club Old Resian, Rosario, Argentina, Saturday, June 22, kick-off 1pm local time/5pm Irish time):

15. Max O’Reilly (Dublin University/Leinster)
14. Angus Kernohan (Queen’s University/Ulster)
13. Liam Turner (Dublin University/Leinster)
12. Cormac Foley (St. Mary’s College/Leinster)
11. Rob Russell (Dublin University/Leinster)
10. Jake Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
9. Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster)
1. Josh Wycherley (Young Munster/Munster)
2. Dylan Tierney-Martin (Corinthians/Connacht)
3. Thomas Clarkson (Dublin University/Leinster)
4. Charlie Ryan (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
5. Thomas Ahern (Shannon/Munster)
6. Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster)
7. Ronan Watters (St. Mary’s College/Leinster)
8. Brian Deeny (Clontarf/Leinster)

Replacements:

16. Declan Adamson (Clontarf/Leinster)
17. Michael Milne (UCD/Leinster)
18. Charlie Ward (Clontarf/Leinster)
19. John McKee (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
20. Niall Murray (Buccaneers/Connacht)
21. Luke Clohessy (Shannon/Munster)
22. Azur Allison (Ballymena/Ulster)
24. Colm Reilly (Buccaneers/Connacht)
25. Ben Healy (Garryowen/Munster)
26. Jonathan Wren (Cork Constitution/Munster)
27. David Ryan (UCD/Leinster)
28. Aaron O’Sullivan (UCD/Leinster)

Saturday, June 22 – 7th-8th Place Play-Off: IRELAND v New Zealand, Club Old Resian, Rosario, 1pm local time/5pm Irish time
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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:29 am

Kernohan has been disappointing in attack - Wren is unlucky not to start but maybe is jaded?

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Post by profitius on Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:06 pm

I'd like to see Ireland dominate the lineouts. 4 players playing who are normally locks so theyll have a big height advantage.


Not sure what to make of the game itself. NZ not great but Ireland are weak out wide and will concede tries.
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Post by profitius on Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:09 pm

A win is important today to get an easier group next year. Lose and it will likely be another group of death.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:05 pm

Ill be disappointed if we lose. Not a great NZ side.

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Post by profitius on Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:19 pm

Getting annihilated here. 3 tries down after 12 min
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:16 pm

profitius wrote:Getting annihilated here. 3 tries down after 12 min

They showed them way too much respect. Shame.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:08 pm

Just watching the end of the final. Wondering how long it takes the French to screw up the like of Carbonnel and Joseph amongst others.

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Post by profitius on Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:27 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
profitius wrote:Getting annihilated here. 3 tries down after 12 min

They showed them way too much respect. Shame.


Yup. Hope they'll learn from it.
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Post by ebop on Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:10 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Ill be disappointed if we lose. Not a great NZ side.
What was the score Guns, was it disappointing?
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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:32 am

profitius wrote:A win is important today to get an easier group next year. Lose and it will likely be another group of death.

Disagree. All that Ireland had to do was qualify for next year. Playing against the better sides teaches them far more than a soft passage to a big game would.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:15 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
profitius wrote:A win is important today to get an easier group next year. Lose and it will likely be another group of death.

Disagree. All that Ireland had to do was qualify for next year. Playing against the better sides teaches them far more than a soft passage to a big game would.

The annoying thing is thinking about how many of the sides ARE better?  Virtually all 'top tier' sides ending up above us (bar Scotland this year) for the second year running?  A time when we're supposedly churning out these top grade youngsters these days.

Still think Ireland, both at senior level and this level, fixate on 'certain' focus games and leave the rest to chance.  Still think we're not clinical or scientific enough in planning Championship series runs.  Big all-out focus and effort on one game or perhaps two, against supposed toughest opponents, then fall away/lose focus for the rest.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:23 pm

SecretFly wrote:The annoying thing is thinking about how many of the sides ARE better?
You beat England in the pool match, and that's the only match England lost. The pool stucture always means the final order is not a geat guide to who is definitively better than who.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:41 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The annoying thing is thinking about how many of the sides ARE better?
You beat England in the pool match, and that's the only match England lost. The pool stucture always means the final order is not a geat guide to who is definitively better than who.

Close to my very point, as I believe Ireland went all into and out for that English game.  England played the science in recalibrating and working out their weaknesses.  But we just don't have that 'thing' in our system yet, I feel. Wales are much better at it working from a more limited base in many ways.
So, when Ireland met England for a second time, England were ready... Ireland were already mentally on the plane home because adapting to circumstances mid-series is very difficult for them.  The red card busted their neat plan of who they expected to meet.
Just my perceptions of course, but they've been a long time in there now.  I need much more convincing that my ideas are wrong.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:53 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The annoying thing is thinking about how many of the sides ARE better?
You beat England in the pool match, and that's the only match England lost. The pool stucture always means the final order is not a geat guide to who is definitively better than who.

Close to my very point, as I believe Ireland went all into and out for that English game.  England played the science in recalibrating and working out their weaknesses.  But we just don't have that 'thing' in our system yet, I feel. Wales are much better at it working from a more limited base in many ways.
So, when Ireland met England for a second time, England were ready... Ireland were already mentally on the plane home because adapting to circumstances mid-series is very difficult for them.  The red card busted their neat plan of who they expected to meet.
Just my perceptions of course, but they've been a long time in there now.  I need much more convincing that my ideas are wrong.
I know you always give the u20s a hard time fly and perhaps rightly so, but I think you're being a bit harsh here with this group; especially given the incredible amount of injuries both during and before the tournament even started. Even still with the mountain of injuries they probably would have made the semis were it not for that (imo) ridiculous red card against Aus. The format is awful and I know that most people would love to see the tournament go back to 16 teams. I think there is enough quality there when you see a really good Japan team get relegated last season and Scotland this season.

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Post by profitius on Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:10 pm

The scoreline flattered NZ imo but I'm not too bothered by it. Whatever about the results it was a very good squad this year and plenty of them will go on to win senior caps. It will be interesting to follow their development.


Baird would be my irish player of the tournament.

Front row were excellent. They stayed fit for the whole season which was important. The front row subs were not great though. Reid should have travelled ahead of Milne.

Second row was excellent. Some great talent there.

Backrow was excellent. Penny and Hodnett were the stand outs. McCann wasn't far behind and only 19. Moloney outstanding in the 6N.

Half backs were excellent. Byrne unlucky to miss the tournament but Healy and Flannery filled in well. Casey a future international despite his size. Even Reilly looked good.

Centers were excellent. Unfortunately crippled with injuries. Turner had 6 different partners in the 10 games!

Back 3 were good. Maybe the weakest are of the squad but they were still good.


6 or 7 of this squad will be back next year. Mainly forwards. We should have a decent team again next year though how good remains to be seen.


The IRFU need to have a look at the number of injuries.
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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:27 am

SecretFly wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
profitius wrote:A win is important today to get an easier group next year. Lose and it will likely be another group of death.

Disagree. All that Ireland had to do was qualify for next year. Playing against the better sides teaches them far more than a soft passage to a big game would.

The annoying thing is thinking about how many of the sides ARE better?  Virtually all 'top tier' sides ending up above us (bar Scotland this year) for the second year running?  A time when we're supposedly churning out these top grade youngsters these days.

Still think Ireland, both at senior level and this level, fixate on 'certain' focus games and leave the rest to chance.  Still think we're not clinical or scientific enough in planning Championship series runs.  Big all-out focus and effort on one game or perhaps two, against supposed toughest opponents, then fall away/lose focus for the rest.

Don't agree Fly.

The point of this tournament is development, first second and last. Ireland don't have the number of schoolboys playing the game that say NZ, Oz, England or France do and while the provincial academies are improving they are on catch-up to develop the talent physically to compete. Ireland aren't a bad team - with time and rest they have beaten England twice and France this year.

In a punishing schedule such as the JWC they simply don't have enough players with the requisite talent strong enough to survive the tournament. Five games in 18 days with a 28 man squad on hard grounds in high heat - size matters.

It is far better for Ireland to expose as many talented players as possible to show them how much strength and conditioning matters, than develop a smaller squad of the bigger players over a couple of years that might be able to last the tournament better. The goal is Ireland success not a JWC win.




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Post by Cyril on Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:48 am

None of the Home Nations had a particularly good JWC, but surely Ireland can’t consider it any sort of success as they lost more than they won. Unfortunately they tend to play with the lack of freedom like the senior side. Is Schmidt insisting they play kick/chase and choke tackle? Fly is right on this occasion.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:18 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I know you always give the u20s a hard time fly and perhaps rightly so, but I think you're being a bit harsh here with this group; especially given the incredible amount of injuries both during and before the tournament even started. Even still with the mountain of injuries they probably would have made the semis were it not for that (imo) ridiculous red card against Aus. The format is awful and I know that most people would love to see the tournament go back to 16 teams. I think there is enough quality there when you see a really good Japan team get relegated last season and Scotland this season.

Yes the format is ridiculous - it is totally suited to the teams with the biggest resources - World Rugby are clueless when it comes to player welfare.

There should be 16 teams with 4 pools, with the bottom four going home having had three games. The next two games should determine places 1 to 12 as at present. The pool games should be 5 days apart and the last two 6 days increasing the length of the tournament from 18 days to 27.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:42 am

profitius wrote:The scoreline flattered NZ imo but I'm not too bothered by it. Whatever about the results it was a very good squad this year and plenty of them will go on to win senior caps. It will be interesting to follow their development.
Baird would be my irish player of the tournament.
Front row were excellent. They stayed fit for the whole season which was important. The front row subs were not great though. Reid should have travelled ahead of Milne.
Second row was excellent. Some great talent there.
Backrow was excellent. Penny and Hodnett were the stand outs. McCann wasn't far behind and only 19. Moloney outstanding in the 6N.
Half backs were excellent. Byrne unlucky to miss the tournament but Healy and Flannery filled in well. Casey a future international despite his size. Even Reilly looked good.
Centers were excellent. Unfortunately crippled with injuries. Turner had 6 different partners in the 10 games!
Back 3 were good. Maybe the weakest are of the squad but they were still good.
6 or 7 of this squad will be back next year. Mainly forwards. We should have a decent team again next year though how good remains to be seen.
The IRFU need to have a look at the number of injuries.
Agree Prof - Baird showed up well and looks a far better 6 than lock. Really liked Charlie Ryan as a leader and wished Ahern had been involved earlier. Wycherly and Tierney Martin stood out for me in the front row. Hodnett was great in the 6N but quieter in the JWC and it was a pity Penny and Byrne missed the JWC. Not at all convinced by Flannery but Healy looked very calm and promising. Casey was my man of the year as he has a very complete all round game and a good head when he keeps it in check.
The outside backs all had flashes of brilliance but were often overpowered by bigger opposition.

The IRFU should lobby for more recovery time between games, maybe 31 man squads and unlimited subs for the JWC.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:42 am

Ireland played well in all games bar the NZ one but by that stage they were shot. I think they did well in the big games. The exonerated red card was the difference between a decent tournament and a really good one.

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