England - the winter tours thread

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Dec 2018, 7:39 am

First topic message reminder :

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:No Jofra then

Turns out he doesn’t actually qualify until March - so couldn’t make the West Indies tour

...and Smiths being more guarded about him for the world cup than the press hype has been.

But he is eligible for the T20s on this tour, for which the squad hasnt been named yet if he pulls out of the BBL. Aside form that theres just the 5 match warm up series against Pakistan for him to be capped before the world cup.

Smith does seem to think Denly can make a case for inclusion in the world cup squad, so despite him not getting much cricket in sri lanka, struggling with the bat, and only being a replacement for Dawson in the ODI squad he must be doing something right.

Of the two though you'd think Archer had more potential to improve Englands first XI on home pitches.


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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 5:25 pm

Much better bowling from England so far today. Tighter and with greater discipline. West Indies don't look as though they'll make 300 - 300, once the gold standard, now a featherweight score.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 6:02 pm

Brilliant from Rashid. Hetmeyer skews a wide slower ball from Curran to short third-man, and Bravo calls him through for a sharp single, but Rashid's throw is dead-eye at the base of the stumps and Bravo is well short. Good wicket for England to get, that partnership was starting to build nicely. Hetmeyer had gone to a very good 50 from the previous ball. Brings Holder to the crease, probably about 5 overs before WI would have wanted.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 6:09 pm

Brilliant again from England, this time Jason Roy with the direct hit from point to get rid of Holder, who'd wandered out of his crease after a big LBW appeal off Wood. Well gone, and WI now 5 down in the 39th over. Wood seems to be getting just a hint of reverse swing out there, too. That'll make it hard for the new batsmen with his pace still good.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 6:51 pm

Bowling some filth at the death here
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 7:07 pm

Good century for Hetmyer, always good fun watching him bat. Stokes and Wood bowled superbly.

290 to win - doddle.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 7:08 pm

Again not sure why Rashid only bowled 6 overs - he bowled very well. Feel like WIndies are 30-40 under par
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Post by king_carlos on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 7:30 pm

Confidence is a strange thing in sport. The fielding of the flying ODI side is miles ahead of the stuttering test side.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 7:55 pm

England have lost both openers cheaply, making hard work of the doddle. Morgan and Root rebuilding.

68/3 after 15 overs. Shockingly, it's in the balance! Root was looking serene before his unlikely dismissal. Morgan has to bat long.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:05 pm

Stokes and Morgan counter-attacking...the latter just dropped on 41. Huge miss for the Windies.

Stokes now saved by a review.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:23 pm

Morgan dropped again, tougher chance, but the Windies need to take 'em if they're going to win.

And despite everything, England are moving into a position of control, particularly as Gayle is serving up some pies.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:45 pm

Morgan eventually dismissed for a tidy 70. That partnership took England 99 runs closer, now Stokes/Buttler/Ali have to knock off the majority of the 131 left.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 10:41 pm

England lose Stokes and Buttler to soft dismissals in quick succession and look like they may have thrown this one away
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 10:43 pm

And now one of the worst LBW decisions I’ve ever seen in my life given by umpire Brathwaite - who it has to be said has been abysmal all series
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 10:47 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:And now one of the worst LBW decisions I’ve ever seen in my life given by umpire Brathwaite - who it has to be said has been abysmal all series

I mean that decision is so bad he should actually be removed from the umpiring panel - a village umpire would’ve got that right
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Post by JDizzle on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 10:48 pm

Stokes reviewing one he’s smashed the cover off might cost England here. Rash, Plunkett and Wood can all bat - but Moeen needs to get most of these.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 10:48 pm

Olly's call for an extra batsman brought out all the confidence in our batting order. Punished for your self-belief, you should know better than to say good things!

That LBW call was just ridiculous

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:03 pm

Yeah Stokes and Buttler appeared to have sealed it, but both fell quickly leaving England vulnerable. Then one of the worst umpiring decisions I've ever seen. For now, England staying in touch, but that's all.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:11 pm

Cottrell's bowling has won this for the Windies. England have turned a doddle of a chase into a loss. Poor. Four batsmen in the middle got starts, but none went long.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:17 pm

Could’ve done with that extra bat huh...

On a serious note - the use of Rashid’s bowling was again ridiculous. He’s been our best ODI bowler for the past 18 months, he was bowling really well today and bowled the least overs of all our bowlers. Two games in a row Morgan has used him dreadfully
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:23 pm

Seriously though I think there’s a case for Hales coming in for Bairstow next game - Bairstow’s been horribly out of form for a while now, has a high score of 38 in ODIs since the Aussie series in early last summer...but much like in tests seems immune to criticism...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:28 pm

And finally - officially not a fan of Cottrell’s ridiculous celebration, up there with Tahir doing a lap of honour anytime he gets a wicket. He’s also slamming his spikes onto the wicket on a length when he does it...
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 23 Feb 2019, 12:02 am

From an outsider's perspective, it would seem Rashid isn't the most popular figure in the England dressing room, because both Root and Morgan treat him with disdain.

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Post by alfie on Sat 23 Feb 2019, 12:22 am

That changed quickly Smile

Thought it was in the bag when Stokes and Buttler were going along nicely but they really folded up from there . Thought Buttler a little unlucky with a ball that seemed to stick in the pitch ; but the Stokes dismissal was a double blow as he wasted a review which turned out to be crucial later on...maybe he didn't feel it on the bat as he hit the ground at the same time ; but surely Jos should have told him not to review ? Curran's lbw is up - or down - there with the worst decisions I've ever seen at any level Smile

Bit of a wake up call for England ; overconfidence creeping in ? As regards the odd use of Rashid (I didn't watch that part but can see he's been strangely handled) I do wonder if Morgan isn't using these matches for a bit of experimentation with a view to the big games to come : which might not be a bad idea - even if it does cost in the short term. I still have my doubts about the England bowling : plenty of variety , but arguably a little short on real class. Curran seems to have had a bit of a horror day with the ball , rather undermining suggestions that he ought to be a better bet than Plunkett and Wood.

Still fancy the tourists will win this ODI series - they field much better than the home side which will generally tell. Cottrell had a magic day here and he won't do that every game. And England's opening bowlers are surely about due to take a wicket in the first ten overs ... losing their own two right at the start rather opened the door for what eventually followed : and I doubt West Indies would be getting the scores they are if Gayle and Campbell were similarly knocked over early on...

Anyway it livens up the contest.

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Post by alfie on Sat 23 Feb 2019, 12:28 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Seriously though I think there’s a case for Hales coming in for Bairstow next game - Bairstow’s been horribly out of form for a while now, has a high score of 38 in ODIs since the Aussie series in early last summer...but much like in tests seems immune to criticism...

Seriously , Olly ?  I would have thought Bairstow gets more criticism than almost anyone (apart from Jennings) - certainly on the internet.  I haven't looked up his recent ODI scores but it doesn't seem long ago he was churning out runs and I'm not sure a few early outs should see him ditched for Hales - though he is certainly a decent alternative and I wouldn't be surprised to see him play a game or two in this series.

Edit : Just looked at the figures. That "horribly out of form" run (since a stellar series against Australia) is just eight games : yes , a high of 38 - but also lot of brisk thirty or so opening efforts and this duck only the second outright failure in there. In truth Roy has a very similar record in this period apart from that great century the other day . They seem to be a highly effective opening pair and I think management will be reluctant to break them up - even if we would all like a few more big scores.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 23 Feb 2019, 12:42 pm

Does this mean all the people writing about Roy of the Rocers A’s solution to the test side now have to completely change their minds?

Got to love the hype trains.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 23 Feb 2019, 2:41 pm

From my personal opinion Alex Hales would always be in my playing XI. He's an outstanding player. Jonny Bairstow is very overrated and his technical issues are showing up more and more.

Secondly what's Moeen Ali actually offering in the ODI side? Batting average of 26 and bowling average of 46. Last 18 innings Ali averages 17 with the bat. He's an absolute passenger.

Joe Root is more than capable of bowling 3-5 overs in pretty much every match and ditching the hopeless Moeen means we can add either Archer or a different spinner.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 23 Feb 2019, 3:21 pm

I have to say, having looked at it again, that that woeful LBW decision against Curran falls firmly into the 'suspicious' category. No umpire can possibly be that incompetent.

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Post by alfie on Sun 24 Feb 2019, 10:34 am

Third ODI looms ...should England adjust their team ? Olly has advanced the "extra batsman" theory ...I'm not convinced . But I have to admit Moeen isn't adding much to the batting : a case fir Curran (Shockingly "done " the other day ) to bat ahead of him ?

I still maintain England have a bit of a soft centre when it comes to bowling ; which is why I'd play Willey who actually gets wickets early often as not. If they have six bowlers they can carry him if he doesn't bowl at the death...

As for this series it doesn't really matter that much. Win it or lose it won't mean much against what happens in July. Woakes fragility worries me. He's in the best team but how often is he 100% fit ?

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 24 Feb 2019, 2:04 pm

Tom Curran was batting bizarrely high as it was.
Moeens returns with bat and ball have been quite worrying so far in this series but I'd expect he remains pretty central to England's plans as a second spin option. They just need him to start delivering again, I'm not sure that's best achieved by dropping him.

There was always a worry that England would struggle on tougher wickets, that's was shown up in the last game. Curran and Moeen let them down a bit with the ball and the weaker than normal tail didn't way as they would hope.

Another 5% in Archers favour perhaps, if you buy the idea that he's an all rounder.

Bear in mind for the world cup they will mostly be playing on decent size grounds and flat true wickets that suit their style better. It wasn't a great display from them in any discipline but for me it alters nothing about the balance of the side or they style that's bought them success. Just play closer to their potential and tinker with the seamers ...Just one of wood and Curran .

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 25 Feb 2019, 8:16 am

Interview with Woakes on Cricinfo where hes discussing his knee issues. A long term problem that just need managing by the sounds of it. He should be bowling in the third ODI which will shore up the batting depth, and has no concerns about his availability for the world cup. Interesting to see who they swap for him, Plunkett or Curran most likely which may say a lot about whether there is real concern about Plunketts declining pace or not. Currans not exactly made the best of his opportunity, but it has only been one game.
No indication that Hales will get a game either as an extra batting option or rotating for Bairstow. YJB could do with a score, but it is less than a year since he scored 4 centuries in 6 innings. Saying hes in terrible form is an exaggeration, but the three openers are all worthy of a place so I wouldn't be at all averse to Hales getting a chance to press his case. Nice "problem" to have.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 25 Feb 2019, 12:34 pm

Apparently, today's game is taking place on a flat deck at a ground with short boundaries...oh joy! West Indies have won their last five ODIs at this stadium...albeit nearly four-five years ago, against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 25 Feb 2019, 1:48 pm

Should guarantee Gayle a place at the world cup then!

Englands spinners could show their worth here if they can hold their nerve. One of the reasons Moeens been valuable, despite his dodgy figure, is his ability to work in tandem with Rashid in the middle overs and frustrate the big hitting bats.

England are generally happier with flat decks, but would probably prefer bigger boundaries to force the west indies bastmen to run rather than relying on scoring a 6 every over. Overly small grounds are not good for the game IMO.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 25 Feb 2019, 2:43 pm

Hales in for Stokes, the latter is injured (Olly will be kinda happy), and England are fielding first. No play yet due to rain, might be one of those days.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 25 Feb 2019, 5:32 pm

Interesting England chose to bowl ...maybe looking at the advantage of batting second in DRS situations?

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 11:11 am

Chances of drizzle again today it seems. Lets hope they manage to get on.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 1:05 pm

West Indies opting to field first. Hales is in the side again, this time in place of Roy (injured), not Stokes.

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Post by AlciG on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:06 pm

Windies need a wicket quick or this could get out of hand

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:11 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Seriously though I think there’s a case for Hales coming in for Bairstow next game - Bairstow’s been horribly out of form for a while now, has a high score of 38 in ODIs since the Aussie series in early last summer...but much like in tests seems immune to criticism...

Bairstow promptly scores a fifty next innings Laugh
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:16 pm

England currently going faster than India are in their game against Australia...thing is, India are playing a T20!

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Post by alfie on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:20 pm

Brisk start from England. Smile 88 off ten.

West Indies tactic of bowling spin early looking a little questionable. Mind you , England will want plenty on this , I think...

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Post by VTR on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:21 pm

Sounds like the boundaries are so small, there's a danger of all sixes being referred to as "DLF maximums"

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Post by AlciG on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:24 pm

This is going to be painful Sad

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:26 pm

Just for reference, the highest ODI score is 481/6 (England really should have made 500 on that day). The highest ODI score outside England is 443/9 made by Sri Lanka against the Dutch.

With boundaries this short, England should be looking for 400 minimum.

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Post by alfie on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:32 pm

Brathwaite has slowed the scoring pretty effectively...just seven runs off the last three overs ; but I guess they can consolidate a bit after that rocket start.
Ground is small enough the West Indian power hitters will fancy not having to run many twos later on...

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Post by AlciG on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:33 pm

At least Brathwaite is doing well

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Post by AlciG on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:36 pm

Finally

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Post by AlciG on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:37 pm

Now a few more so we can have a match on our hands

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:53 pm

It is absolutely exceptional banter that England have too many good openers in ODIs, but anybody who knows how to vaguely hold a bat is in contention for opening in tests
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Post by AlciG on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:57 pm

120 for 2

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Post by AlciG on Wed 27 Feb 2019, 3:33 pm

3 down

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