World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

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World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Intotouch on Mon 28 Jan - 7:00

First topic message reminder :

I was surprised that there wasn't a thread on this already. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the subject so I'm posting this one. If there's already a thread on the subject that I missed then mods, please delete or merge this one.

This week there are meetings in LA between union heads to discuss plans to host an annual world competition in international rugby. According to different sources either the 6 nations will act as a pool stage for the knock out rounds or there will be three pools of three nations followed by a semi final and final. The motivation behind this is to bring in more income for struggling SH unions. It is the idea of Pichot and inspired by the nations cup in soccer in Europe which effectively got rid of soccer friendlies and instead provided plenty of matches but all leading to a title.

Here is one recent article about this:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2019/01/all-blacks-new-world-rugby-league-to-be-proposed.html

Since this competition would naturally involve more matches for the semi finalists and finalists at least it is going to increase the amount of matches international players compete in which brings up concerns for player welfare and clubs resistance. As is mentioned in the article it would turn the world cup into nothing special. Taking the 6 nations from free to air is I think a terrible idea as it's incredibly popular with people who are not really rugby fans, but tune in to it because it's an event and growing up with it builds up an emotional connection with people that would be lost. Since away fans would probably have vast distances to travel the atmosphere at the semis and final could be a bit flat.

However if rugby is in trouble in the SH then something must change to help them. Personally I think the unpredictability of the 6 nations make it exciting, and the predictability of the rugby championship is it's main problem. A world league might turn out to be just as predictable. So solving little. But maybe I'm wrong here and people in Australia for example will get really excited about this and attendances will increase? How do you think the internationals should be changed to increase it's popularity down south and make more money?

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 28 Feb - 17:50

Augustine Pichots reign really has been one disaster after another. Apparently he is on the USA's rugby board, so no wonder the USA are one the 12. Anything that harms the PIs will always receive huge backlash from the the general public. Losing those nations to rugby league (which is exactly what will happen) will be inexcusable and will damage rugby as a whole.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 28 Feb - 18:38

Going by what I read today, the answer will be no. Guys like Roberts, Sexton et al raised the issues around a year ago and the proposal shows no signs of alleviating the situation regarding player welfare, Pacific island rugby, etc.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Brendan on Thu 28 Feb - 21:42

robbo277 wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:I despair of all these global discussions, because they never appear to address the whole picture. I could understand if there was an attempt to pin one problem down, and then accept the logical consequences for the rest of rugby, but that never seems to happen.

When the global calendar agreement was thrashed out, it was obvious to anyone with even a passing familiarity with the game in the North, that it meant our players going deeper into the summer to play Tests. There was no attempt to get a rounded agreement from England and France to adjust the league structure, so we've ended up with an 11 month season and scant additional allowance for player welfare.

World Rugby says daft things like wanting top XVs players to play Olympic sevens, seemingly oblivious to the fact the XVs World Cup will always come 9 months or so before the Olympics, which leaves little time for anyone to make an effective switch.

Then World Rugby says the Lions should continue as an institution, without trying to find a place in the calendar to keep everyone onside.

It seems evident to me that to set up a global rugby schedule of Test and club competitions, which can live in some kind of harmony. we'll have to lose some parts of the sport which are currently held very dear, because there isn't room for everything. I don't know which parts will have to lose out, but some compensation should be paid, and then we can get on promoting like crazy whatever we have left.

You'd think an easy fix would be to start the leagues in October and finish them in June, just shifting all the games back a month. But I'm sure the clubs will use the expansion to take matches out the international window and put further demands on the top players.

I still think the Southern Hemisphere season is better. 3 tiers of rugby, International, Continental and Domestic. Players either play International and Continental, Continental and Domestic or just Domestic depending on their ability. Then you can have 3x 12 game seasons that overlap.

The bastardised version of the football season we use up here is not fit for purpose.

It wouldn't work in the NH unless players were hired by two clubs due to the setup used. It is nice getting a taste of a tournament like the European Cup for two weeks and then have to wait a few weeks before it kicks in again.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Brendan on Thu 28 Feb - 22:39

So Japan and USA get invited in because they have loads of money.

Fiji get dumped like their Super Rugby plans because they don't have money and on field results just aren't as important as money.

Georgia get nothing because again they are a small nation and well the USA are the elephant in the room that can't be ignored even if it might be white.

We in the NH sometimes get upset that Italy might lose by 20-30pts in the 6N.  Well the good news is with this tournament we will ask why the USA is losing by 50+ pts.

WR are meant to look after the small nations.  Unless they use the money to fund professional set-ups (40 full time players) in the nations losing out it is a waste of time and derilication of duty.

Do we honestly believe the USA will become good enough by playing MLR (which the Kings, Perpignan, and London Irish would win by 50+pts per game) and the other 11/10 Nations will beat comfortably. Going by Italy this would take decades as starting from a lower base.  Argentina 15 beat them by 30pts, Maori's beat them by nearly 50.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by SecretFly on Fri 1 Mar - 9:52

I disagree wholeheartedly with people here pining for the Pacific Island Rugby Nations. They are not being cast adrift! They will have a vital role in the proposed new plans. They'll provide some valued player stock for Japan, the USA and others. Three cheers for World Rugby forward thinking.
....... oh and it'll probably kill off International rugby on these islands for good as there'll be little value in saving yourself for your natural National side if it isn't getting to play in the Wonder League.

F**k World Rugby. It has been compromised and infiltrated years ago by corporate spies and lobbyists. They care nothing for tradition or players. Just as always chasing after that very last buck in every punter's pocket...every last dime.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 1 Mar - 9:59

World Rugby’s plan for a new global league of Test matches is said to be “dead in the water” after leading international players took the unprecedented step of speaking out against the proposal.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/02/28/world-league-dead-water-leading-players-intervene-welfare-issues/

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by SecretFly on Fri 1 Mar - 10:06

They'll just regroup and find a time to come at it again from another angle..... there is too much investment and planning already put in to this idea. Too many big interest groups that are not going to be bamboozled by a bunch of punch-drunk players.
Nope.... they'll lay off for a bit and maybe bring fresh plans ( i.e., the same old plans) with them to the WC. By that time, they might have Got-At a few of the more eye catching players and coaxed them to have a very public change of heart......

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Recwatcher16 on Fri 1 Mar - 10:27

This idea that corporate financiers are in control of WR is ludicrous.

The corporate / private equity mob are lurking on the outside because they can see how WR are desperately trying to save a flawed structure with Unions scrabbling for cash, any cash. The Unions are staying quiet in the background and letting WR take the flak from press, players and those Unions frozen out, but it is their agenda, if not this specific proposed solution.

Wales, Scotland and Ireland can and are playing both sides of the debate because ultimately they have French and English TV money to fall back on.

Players like Sexton speaking out on welfare is all very well, but he is beneficiary of a top down elitist system that his Union are desperate to maintain and also control.

Rugby Union has got itself in a financial tail spin and it will end badly for a few years until common sense is resumed. There will be casualties, my guess is Australia and the way the great club game has been abandoned in Wales is a disgrace.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 1 Mar - 10:54

Recwatcher16 wrote:This idea that corporate financiers are in control of WR is ludicrous.

The corporate / private equity mob are lurking on the outside because they can see how WR are desperately trying to save a flawed structure with Unions scrabbling for cash, any cash. The Unions are staying quiet in the background and letting WR take the flak from press, players and those Unions frozen out, but it is their agenda, if not this specific proposed solution.

Wales, Scotland and Ireland can and are playing both sides of the debate because ultimately they have French and English TV money to fall back on.

Players like Sexton speaking out on welfare is all very well, but he is beneficiary of a top down elitist system that his Union are desperate to maintain and also control.

Rugby Union has got itself in a financial tail spin and it will end badly for a few years until common sense is resumed. There will be casualties, my guess is Australia and the way the great club game has been abandoned in Wales is a disgrace.

What's common sense rec? Hand it all over to Bruce and his mates?

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by SecretFly on Fri 1 Mar - 11:18

Corporate lobbyists/whisperers/inducers are all over and through World Rugby. So I suppose we can only agree as usual that we have two very different competing views of the realities of rugby 'union' in this age, Rec.

But also, when you mention Sexton, take the time to also mention Owen Farrell who mirrored Sexton's words, and Sexton is only reflecting the views of the players in his 'union', which I'd assume includes all players in Top 14 and the English premiership?
Plus, I've witnessed the suspicious activity of private interests operating from within the framework of 'union' - when the RFU boss moved straight to the PRL after helping PRL to their goals in European competition whilst forever protesting that he was remaining 'neutral' in the epic fight back then. I laughed at that when he was still RFU boss and of course the smirk was even creamier when I saw him move so seamlessly to PRL after the deed was done.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by tigertattie on Fri 1 Mar - 11:25

As Neil Diamond says, Money talks, But it don't sing and dance and it don't walk

The players will moan but who pays thier wages?

Exactly.

The blazers will get what they want I'm afraid and it would need to be something mental like a breakaway such like the union/league codes to stop or reverse this.
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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Recwatcher16 on Fri 1 Mar - 11:45

Secret, Yes I note Farrell was unsurprisingly also against it but he is not employed by his Union.
By all means question the ethics of Ritchie if you want, but you have no basis or evidence for it.

The corporate financiers are not in WR yet but it is only a matter of time because the current financial model of its senior members has run its course and the professional management, so called, has run out of mainstream ideas and is now floating radical change.
No one has to take it over, they (the villains) can just watch when the next round of tv contracts doesn't create the right numbers.


Last edited by Recwatcher16 on Fri 1 Mar - 11:46; edited 1 time in total

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by SecretFly on Fri 1 Mar - 11:45

As long as there are ref pit stops and time trials to make sure no game will go beyond 79.98675849332456 minutes, then I'll be happy enough.... oh yeah, and midnight games in Dubai on a purpose built field.... 120 metres above ground. Spectacular!!!!

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 1 Mar - 11:47

The way it's going, rugby will end up like cricket, where all the best players are playing all year around for the national side, and the leagues below will be bereft of all the internationals.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by SecretFly on Fri 1 Mar - 11:52

They have taken it over. You don't have to have a publically visible face within an organisation these days or indeed anytime past or future, to get YOUR people into an organisation and slowly but surely direct the ship where you want it to go. You can make the Merger public eventually but the groundwork is done by sleepers and agents and people 'sympathetic' to your wishes.. All James Bondy stuff but it happens everywhere for real in all areas, and sport is certainly not the only exception.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Brendan on Fri 1 Mar - 12:00

Recwatcher16 wrote:This idea that corporate financiers are in control of WR is ludicrous.

The corporate / private equity mob are lurking on the outside because they can see how WR are desperately trying to save a flawed structure with Unions scrabbling for cash, any cash. The Unions are staying quiet in the background and letting WR take the flak from press, players and those Unions frozen out, but it is their agenda, if not this specific proposed solution.

Wales, Scotland and Ireland can and are playing both sides of the debate because ultimately they have French and English TV money to fall back on.

Players like Sexton speaking out on welfare is all very well, but he is beneficiary of a top down elitist system that his Union are desperate to maintain and also control.

Rugby Union has got itself in a financial tail spin and it will end badly for a few years until common sense is resumed. There will be casualties, my guess is Australia and the way the great club game has been abandoned in Wales is a disgrace.

I think you mean the other four unions in the 6 Nations are reliant on home fans to turn out in numbers and European Rugby to survive.   As far as I am aware these unions don't get any money from the RFU/FFR nor the PRL/T14 for any tv deals.

The 6 Nations sells its TV rights and distributes the money to its members
The ERCP sells its rights and distributes it to its members.
The Pro14 sells its right all around the world including England & France but you wouldn't say it's an English/French TV money but Pro14 money.

If the PRL (some uninformed fans more likely) think that because people in a country pay to watch something on TV and the TV companies pay to get the rights that it is the country unions money don't understand that it is the product that has value not the people buying it, (Unless I'm wrong in which case I look forward to loads of companies paying me for using their service or at least a thank you as I am more important than the product).

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by hugehandoff on Fri 1 Mar - 16:11

So we are all agreed that this is a pants proposal and hopefully it gets binned very quickly.

But what ideas are there to improve the game?

I would support a Euro champs every 4 years in between RWCs. Bring in Romania and Georgia and potentially others. Yes we might lose potential income from less clashes between the established 6Ns countries, but with group matches, semi and a final it would still be great. Normal 6Ns in the other 3 years.

The Rugby Champs could do something similar and encourage USA, Canada, Fiji, Tonga etc etc.

2019 - 6Ns & RC & RWC
2020 - 6Ns & RC
2021 - Southern and Northern hemisphere champs
2022 - 6Ns & RC

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Fri 1 Mar - 16:27

Recwatcher16 wrote:This idea that corporate financiers are in control of WR is ludicrous.

The corporate / private equity mob are lurking on the outside because they can see how WR are desperately trying to save a flawed structure with Unions scrabbling for cash, any cash. The Unions are staying quiet in the background and letting WR take the flak from press, players and those Unions frozen out, but it is their agenda, if not this specific proposed solution.

Wales, Scotland and Ireland can and are playing both sides of the debate because ultimately they have French and English TV money to fall back on.

Players like Sexton speaking out on welfare is all very well, but he is beneficiary of a top down elitist system that his Union are desperate to maintain and also control.

Rugby Union has got itself in a financial tail spin and it will end badly for a few years until common sense is resumed. There will be casualties, my guess is Australia and the way the great club game has been abandoned in Wales is a disgrace.
The unions and WR are the reason why we have an international game that is only growing throughout the world. If you want to look at how a club dominated game would look, you only need to look at rugby league and their farce of a international scene. Their world cup consists of England, Aus, NZ and France, all the rest of the teams are almost exclusively "heritage players". Also their top tier nations can go YEARS without having a home I international. WR (before Pichot anyway) have done a good job in spreading the game and funding tier 2 nations.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Brendan on Fri 1 Mar - 16:30

First thing the RC can do is bring in more teams and only play each other once. Not going to happen.

Second WR can give money to the tier 2 nations for a professional squad of 40 players ($1m).

Third WR should look to get these teams on a pathway to the Regioal competitions (Pro14 & Super Rugby).  This could include a development league for the Pro14 and making Forester' s league the one for Super Rugby.

Fourth WR should actively promote and work with the B6N and a B - RC.  If you had 6 in each tier that is 24 teams on a good footing

WR should look after all it's members not just the big ones.

They should build the 7s into a less money wasting format that cost loads but really has no fan base or players (once a year in a place is an event).  Work with the existing leagues to make the 7s part of it.  So Tiger 7s v Sarries 7s the same day as  Tigers v Sarries.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by robbo277 on Fri 1 Mar - 21:50

Samoa, Fiji and Tonga are considering boycotting the World Cup 2019 because of this league. I guess they'll have it on the backburner and wait to see how this develops, but it would be a strong message to World Rugby.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 2 Mar - 6:20

Yes ironically in that 1 of the main drivers is about looking at the finances of the world game and the distrobution of them. Personally I'm for this to be looked at as o don't think the payments to visiting teams are enough and yes there's the arguments about NH paying for the stadiums so deserving etc. One of the main benefits could be the Pacific Islands getting some extra cash to convince some stars e.g. the Nathan Hughes of the world to stick around. The latest reality seems to completely ignore them and looks set to try and make the rich richer.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 2 Mar - 12:21

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes ironically in that 1 of the main drivers is about looking at the finances of the world game and the distrobution of them. Personally I'm for this to be looked at as o don't think the payments to visiting teams are enough and yes there's the arguments about NH paying for the stadiums so deserving etc. One of the main benefits could be the Pacific Islands getting some extra cash to convince some stars e.g. the Nathan Hughes of the world to stick around. The latest reality seems to completely ignore them and looks set to try and make the rich richer.
Nathan Hughes is a bad example though, as he never really played rugby in Fiji.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 2 Mar - 12:35

He chased the money though. And that's fine bit if there were to be those financial gains for playing for Fiji then perhaps he'd be lining up for them. And I also know their union sucks!

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat 2 Mar - 16:58

No 7&1/2 wrote:He chased the money though. And that's fine bit if there were to be those financial gains for playing for Fiji then perhaps he'd be lining up for them. And I also know their union sucks!
Islanders have families and sometimes even pay for entire villages, so there will always some that will chase the money by playing for another nation. It would be great if they could go back play for their nation if they only had a certain amount of caps. What a same the likes of Naholo and Seta Tamivalu cant play for the Fiji now.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 3 Mar - 1:22

One problem with the idea that "the money men will inevitably get their way", is that it doesn't say which money men, and which way. There is no predestined course for the future of rugby precisely because "the money men" all want different things. For instance, I can't imagine club owners were especially enamoured by the World League proposals.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by cdm86 on Sun 3 Mar - 10:17

I can't believe the vitriol directed to world rugby over tier 2 nations. World rugby have been trying to grow the game for a while now and it's always the six nations boys club standing in the way.
I can only imagine that they they have been pushing for promotion to 6n and championship for a while and to appease the 6n and 4n they omitted it to keep them happy. All of a sudden it's in all the media about how terrible they are!
People talking about the money men but it's the money men in the unions keeping the status quo, they've got no interest in helping smaller nations advance unless it's the USA or Japan.
The world league is a great idea, albeit proposed badly, promotion to the 6 nations via a playoff has to happen for the game to grow, it won't happen because of the self interested unions.
A global season needs to happen, everyone complains that the domestic leagues don't get enough of the top players everyweek, but what's the alternative? A international English player could play 22 games in a premiership season, six minimum in Europe, 5 6n games, a potential world cup, autumn and summer internationals. There is no winning situation at the minute

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by robbo277 on Sun 3 Mar - 20:15

How aware are people of the Tier 2 competitions?

Rugby European Championship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Europe_International_Championships

League system for European clubs (non-Six Nations). Played in February/March. Promotion/relegation between the tiers on a one year basis. All participants are full national teams.

Americas Rugby Championship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas_Rugby_Championship

Closed tournament for 6 teams in the Americas. Played February/March. Argentina XV compete alongside USA, Canada, Uruguay, Brazil, Chile.

Pacific Nations Cup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Pacific_Nations_Cup

Closed tournament for Samoa, Fiji and Tonga, with other invited teams, sometimes other nations but previously have been A teams. Competition format is quite variable. Played in June.

Asia Rugby Championship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Rugby_Championship

Tri-Nations top level tournament with a divisional structure below. Tri-Nations third placed finisher plays Division 1 winner in a promotion/relegation match. 2018 did not include Japan. Played over April/May.

Africa Cup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_Cup

4 tier tournament - top tier of 6. Promotion/relegation within the tiers. Played June-August.




There's a lot of talk about adding teams/incorporating promotion/relegation to the Six Nations and Rugby Championship, but World Rugby could do something with the tournaments they already have to push those.

1. Pacific Nations Cup - Japan have outgrown the Asian Cup but would have a good level of competition with the Pacific Nations. They should be entered as a permanent member of the tournament, the tournament should be closed off and should take the same format each year (either play each other once or home and away split).

2. Protect the primacy of the International game - Spain are struggling to get access to French-based players, and I'm sure it's the same for other countries. This shouldn't be happening in the International game. The tournaments largely fall in two windows ("Six Nations" window and June-August). They should have set windows which are respected, and if clubs don't cooperate then club rugby should be banned from taking place during the International window.

3. Play-offs - I've said it before but I think it would be really good to see a November game between the REC winner and the Six Nations winner for a Community Shield style European Championship Trophy. It would count as the Six Nations winner's Tier 2 game, but it would automatically add some legitimacy to the Rugby European Championship just to be recognised, even if they don't ever win it. A similar thing could happen between the winner of the Rugby Championship and the Pacific Nations Cup. That way you are only adding 1 game to the calendar, but you've helped create some importance for the Tier 2 tournaments without changing a thing about your existing Tier 1 championships.

4. Americas Championship - I think eventually they need to remove Argentina XV from the tournament. It doesn't sit right with me that you can mix full countries and A teams in a serious competition. With the US market obviously targeted for growth, maybe they'll need more than the Americas Championship. Maybe they should have a play-off game as well, but we've run out of Tier 1 competitions to tie them with!

As I said in an earlier post, if they want a World Championship each year, then having the winners of the tournaments they already have in a knock-out tournament for me would be a better idea than to create a World League. You could have in November:

Week 1: Africa vs Asia
Week 2: Qual 1 - Rugby Europe winner vs Africa/Asia Qual 2 - Pacific Nations winner vs Americas winner
Week 3: Six Nations winner vs Qual 1, Rugby Championship winner vs Qual 2
Week 4: Final

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 4 Mar - 8:15

Heard on the radio that Beaumont has called an emergency meeting to try and sort out the rising issues of players having a dig and the threat of the Pacific Islands boycotting the world cup.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Pie on Mon 4 Mar - 9:06

Disgrace to ignore PI who provide the best players in the world that every team wants on their books. I hope they do boycott RWC if needs be, a World tourney without hem would be a farce

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by robbo277 on Mon 4 Mar - 13:14

Pie wrote:Disgrace to ignore PI who provide the best players in the world that every team wants on their books. I hope they do boycott RWC if needs be, a World tourney without hem would be a farce

Nothing to do with drawing Fiji in your pool? Wink

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by miaow on Mon 4 Mar - 16:49

Not much of a netflix fan, but watched this 2-3 years ago and I remember it being a really good insight into rugby in that part of the world. It's a scandal that more isn't being done (particularly by NZ, the spritual 'home' of the game now and by far the best team in the world, with the most expertise to bring) by the wealthier nations to help out in ways that don't include simply capping them for their own nations



Ben Ryan also spoke of the difficulties facing the Olympic 7s team he coached. Another amazing insight and well worth listening to:



The reality is, it's not going to be like growing the game in the USA, or Germany, or Japan. It's as if Brazilian football was limited to a few favelas, in a nation with little to no reliable infrastructure or wealth, and geographically burdened by isolation and constant natural disasters. I honestly don't have the answers - nor do I have the answer to the global season - but this seems utterly hamfisted. The worry is, as someone mentioned earlier, if we wait then 'the moneymen' will have more influence as desperation sets in.

I look at the game in Wales and see that it is dying. If in 50 years time Wales is consistently one of the top 8 rugby nations, something has gone wrong in the game's development as a global sport.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Pie on Mon 4 Mar - 21:41

robbo277 wrote:
Pie wrote:Disgrace to ignore PI who provide the best players in the world that every team wants on their books. I hope they do boycott RWC if needs be, a World tourney without hem would be a farce

Nothing to do with drawing Fiji in your pool? Wink

Some of you English fans are really smarting aren't you Laugh

I'd be more worried about Argentina and France - both of whom have excellent RWC pedigree- after England's last home RWC fiasco thumbsup

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by robbo277 on Mon 4 Mar - 22:37

Pie wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
Pie wrote:Disgrace to ignore PI who provide the best players in the world that every team wants on their books. I hope they do boycott RWC if needs be, a World tourney without hem would be a farce

Nothing to do with drawing Fiji in your pool? Wink

Some of you English fans are really smarting aren't you Laugh

I'd be more worried about Argentina and France - both of whom have excellent RWC pedigree- after England's last home RWC fiasco thumbsup

We'll be fine. Probably. I did say that before the last World Cup though!

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by miaow on Mon 4 Mar - 23:09

Skimming through the comments again and one of the things that crops up is the worry about the club game becoming bigger than international rugby.

Most fans, obviously, agree - don't want to be in a soccer/RL situation where international game is devalued. And most of the plans have this is mind - banning club game during test breaks, for instance.

However, you miss the key part: the stakeholders of the club game. As someone said about moneymen - which moneymen. Do you really think Boudjellal isn't trying to make the club game as big and as bright and as 'good' as it can be? Do you think he wants to international game to remain primary in the rugby world? I would suggest he does not.

Which is the predicament we're in. How to restructure a sport with hemispherical disparity, still burdened by the shackles of amateurism, and approaching a key juncture in the importance/place of pro sport as a cultural and economic force in the world.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 7 Mar - 10:59

Conor O'Shea on the radio today talking about promotion and relegation from the 6N
Basically said 'bring it on we want it'
If Italy can embrace it............

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by marty2086 on Thu 7 Mar - 11:39

geoff999rugby wrote:Conor O'Shea on the radio today talking about promotion and relegation from the 6N
Basically said 'bring it on we want it'
If Italy can embrace it............

From a rugby point of view theres probably no fear from most in the 6Ns but financially what impact would it have, would broadcasters be willing to pay as much per year over a 3/4/5 year deal if the threat of their team not being in it was hanging there?

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 7 Mar - 13:07



Keith Wood & Eddie O'Sullivan with early takes.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 7 Mar - 13:32

marty2086 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Conor O'Shea on the radio today talking about promotion and relegation from the 6N
Basically said 'bring it on we want it'
If Italy can embrace it............

From a rugby point of view theres probably no fear from most in the 6Ns but financially what impact would it have, would broadcasters be willing to pay as much per year over a 3/4/5 year deal if the threat of their team not being in it was hanging there?

Why would promotion and relegation 'grow' the game? It has been in force in the lower leagues for years and has it made any difference? Has the game 'grown in "Italy or Argentina" since their promotion to higher competitions?

Getting relegated after only playing four or five games is patently unfair, when a single rogue result could seal the deal. Scotland would have been relegated from the 6N in 2015, yet pushed eventual finalists Australia all the way in the quarters of the World Cup later that year (and would have been in the semis but for a certain Mr Joubert). What would relegation have done for Scotland and their under-supported Clubs?

Growth should be about... er growth. Supplanting one team with another is good for one and bad for the other, so the benefits are just shifted away from one to the other - zero growth. Growth should be about increasing the numbers involved not simply exchanging one for another. World Rugby need to stop threatening the proven competitions at the pinnacle of the sport and start looking at improving their own competitions to spread the fixtures across a much wider area. World Rugby should start with the RWC finals by having only 16 teams qualifying from 8 four-team pools, held across the world to get rid of the largely pointless 'warm-up' matches that teams organise. Those fixtures, the summer tours and the AIs should be World Rugby's target events to 'grow' the game rather than destroy already successful formats.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 7 Mar - 23:09

So, this has happened. I don't support the clubs over a lot of things but I continue to be amazed that any major proposals can be tabled without at least some degree of consultation.
World Rugby’s controversial plan for a new nations championship has suffered a major blow with both the English and French clubs threatening to take legal action against the governing body, Telegraph Sport can disclose.

It is understood that Premiership Rugby and Ligue Nationale de Rugby are considering action because they regard the proposal for an annual 12-side tournament to be “in clear breach of the San Francisco agreement”, the accord struck by World Rugby in January 2017 to guarantee the structure of the global season to 2032.

Telegraph Sport has seen a copy of a letter sent by LNR chairman Paul Goze to World Rugby chairman Bill Beaumont expressing its frustration at a lack of consultation with the French Top 14 clubs over the project, also known as the “World League”, and warning that legal action could be taken unless “major concerns” were addressed.

A Premiership source said on Thursday that the English clubs were “100 per cent” behind their French counterparts ahead of crunch talks in Dublin next Thursday and had been angered that they had not been invited to take part in the negotiations, which will be attended by the heads of all tier-one unions, plus Japan and Fiji, and the International Rugby Players organisation.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/03/07/exclusive-english-french-clubs-threaten-legal-action-world-league/


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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Taylorman on Thu 7 Mar - 23:29

Rugby Fan wrote:So, this has happened. I don't support the clubs over a lot of things but I continue to be amazed that any major proposals can be tabled without at least some degree of consultation.
World Rugby’s controversial plan for a new nations championship has suffered a major blow with both the English and French clubs threatening to take legal action against the governing body, Telegraph Sport can disclose.

It is understood that Premiership Rugby and Ligue Nationale de Rugby are considering action because they regard the proposal for an annual 12-side tournament to be “in clear breach of the San Francisco agreement”, the accord struck by World Rugby in January 2017 to guarantee the structure of the global season to 2032.

Telegraph Sport has seen a copy of a letter sent by LNR chairman Paul Goze to World Rugby chairman Bill Beaumont expressing its frustration at a lack of consultation with the French Top 14 clubs over the project, also known as the “World League”, and warning that legal action could be taken unless “major concerns” were addressed.

A Premiership source said on Thursday that the English clubs were “100 per cent” behind their French counterparts ahead of crunch talks in Dublin next Thursday and had been angered that they had not been invited to take part in the negotiations, which will be attended by the heads of all tier-one unions, plus Japan and Fiji, and the International Rugby Players organisation.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/03/07/exclusive-english-french-clubs-threaten-legal-action-world-league/


Doesnt surprise one bit. Super rugby got a similar makeover. Add more teams to get more crowds we dont get now to matches.

Good to see the clubs crying though. Love it.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 7 Mar - 23:47

Taylorman wrote:Good to see the clubs crying though. Love it.
It isn't good, though. It's wholly unnecessary. The clubs just finished agreeing to a new international schedule based on discussions in San Francisco, which focused on taking a break from touring after World Cups, more games against Tier 2 nations, and rest breaks for Test players. It may be that the World League proposal is a better option for rugby but only it's common sense to let key groups in the sport know that you plan on tearing up an agreement you have just struck.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Taylorman on Fri 8 Mar - 6:44

Rugby Fan wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Good to see the clubs crying though. Love it.
It isn't good, though. It's wholly unnecessary. The clubs just finished agreeing to a new international schedule based on discussions in San Francisco, which focused on taking a break from touring after World Cups, more games against Tier 2 nations, and rest breaks for Test players. It may be that the World League proposal is a better option for rugby but only it's common sense to let key groups in the sport know that you plan on tearing up an agreement you have just struck.

Nah, I dont think much for the new idea as for me any final, which oddly has to always be played in the north, wont represent the best effort of all the teams involved. Itll be a one off after a whole bunch of one offs all over the place over too long a period.

But I like those clubs crying even less. They want it all, and think theyre answerable to non one, least of all proper development of the game. Throw money at it and she’ll be right. Well, not here it wont be.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 8 Mar - 6:53

Taylorman wrote:...Nah, I dont think much for the new idea...

If you don't care for the clubs, then you definitely shouldn't like the way this is playing out. Whenever the clubs feel their views are being ignored, they become more emboldened. The French clubs were talking about legal action which would probably be a bad outcome for unions. Most of the claims of World Rugby, like the enforceability of release during international windows, are gentleman's agreements, which might not withstand a legal challenge.


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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by SecretFly on Fri 8 Mar - 23:44

Conor O'Shea will be gone from Italy by the time this idea kicks in in any of its formats. Easy for him to speak 'for' Italy. Relegation is relegation. It is NO route to improvement or better motivation or any of the other crud that will be dragged out of gutter to do the sell propaganda with. Relegation is designed to get rid of some to make way for others. And the 'others' are usually the folks with the major big buck potential if their path to Tier 1 is made smoother. World Rugby doesn't give a damn about 15th or 20th ranked side in the world and won't be crying about helping the little people if Italy or any of the other 'smaller' rugby Nations drop down through the trap door. If the Nations with BIG earning potential hit Tier 1 status... that's the end of all this current crocodile tears stuff about the poor and starving Rugby loving folks from Germany, Georgia, Russia, Japan, USA etc.

Give the kids a chance, why don't ya, yis big bad Six Nation bullies! Wink

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 9 Mar - 0:15

Anyone know O'Shea plan post Italy? He's a good coach. If a welsh team doesn't snap him up then one of the Italians should do.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by SecretFly on Sat 9 Mar - 0:20

He'll be back to England. Exeter DOR.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 Mar - 6:30

Six Nations: Investors CVC want to buy stake in rugby's oldest championship - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47547746

So this may end the new comp. And hopefully get rid of the fallow weeks in the 6ns.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 13 Mar - 7:50

No 7&1/2 wrote:Six Nations: Investors CVC want to buy stake in rugby's oldest championship - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47547746

So this may end the new comp. And hopefully get rid of the fallow weeks in the 6ns.

Over on The Roar, Geoff Parkes has been saying the reason the Wordl League proposal seems half-baked is that it has been hurriedly put together as a response to the Six Nations going after just this kind of proposal. The SANZAAR fear is that it would be such an imbalance infinances that could be damaging to the global game.

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by marty2086 on Wed 13 Mar - 9:54

No 7&1/2 wrote: And hopefully get rid of the fallow weeks in the 6ns.

Why would it get rid of the fallow weeks? And why is that a good thing?

The fallow weeks are there to allow players a chance to rest and not burn them out, meaning the players and teams are closer to their best for as many games as possible improving the quality and therefore the value

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Re: World League Proposal to shake up the Rugby calendar

Post by carpet baboon on Wed 13 Mar - 9:55

Rugby Fan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Six Nations: Investors CVC want to buy stake in rugby's oldest championship - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47547746

So this may end the new comp. And hopefully get rid of the fallow weeks in the 6ns.

Over on The Roar, Geoff Parkes has been saying the reason the Wordl League proposal seems half-baked is that it has been hurriedly put together as a response to the Six Nations going after just this kind of proposal. The SANZAAR fear is that it would be such an imbalance infinances that could be damaging to the global game.

No they fear they will get less money not the global game

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