6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Page 1 of 15 1, 2, 3 ... 8 ... 15  Next

Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:22 pm

Part 1 - http://www.606v2.com/t68214-6-nations-ireland-v-england-2nd-feb-2019

Details:

Date: Saturday 2nd February 2019
Time: 16:45 GMT
Location: Dublin, Aviva Stadium
Media Coverage: ITV, TV3, BBC (highlights only), Radio 5Live


Officials


Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)



Teams

Ireland

15 Robbie Henshaw, 14 Keith Earls, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 1 Cian Healy, 2 Rory Best, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 4 Devin Toner, 5 James Ryan, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8 CJ Stander.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Sean O'Brien, 21 John Cooney, 22 Joey Carbery, 23 Jordan Larmour


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19521
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:32 pm

em................................. where is everybody?

SecretFly

Posts : 29444
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:32 pm

The first 16 minutes of this 1014 video look at how Ireland and England play.




Rugby Fan

Posts : 5420
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:33 pm

Apologies to anyone who was typing into the last thread and was kicked out.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19521
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by TightHEAD on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:35 pm

Ire by 13.

Daly at FB is a mistake. Would have been closer with Brown there.
TightHEAD
TightHEAD

Posts : 4001
Join date : 2014-09-25
Location : USK

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:37 pm

Just noticed the TMO is Glen Newman. He's the man who disallowed Anscombe's try for Wales against England last year, a decision which World Rugby publicly called a mistake. I don't have an opinion on him, but I'd have thought it might make sense to have another Frenchman, given that the rest of the official are French. If there's one line of communication you want to be as clear as possible, it's between the referee and TMO.


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rugby Fan

Posts : 5420
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:39 pm

Henshaw at 15 confirmed

Collapse2005

Posts : 2825
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:40 pm

VdF at 7 as expected, everyone else as expected.

Collapse2005

Posts : 2825
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Mr Bounce on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:43 pm

For all the discussion about Daly being poor under the high, it's as clear as day to me that during the game he and Nowell will be interchanging on a regular basis - hell it could be that Nowell plays at 15 despite wearing 14. Exeter have been trialling Jack there to great effect, no doubt at the request of Uncle Eddie.

I for one am quite pleased with the selection. Itoje and Kruis should link up well with George as club mates in the lineout. The front row are all Lions test players and in great form. Just because Curry was injured and therefore outshone by Underhill in the Autumn does not make him a poor choice. He's playing VERY well. Wilson is simply great at what he does and Billy is Billy.

Do I have concerns? Yes, Ireland might be better. However, I think this is the most potent squad Eddie could have picked. Yes there's question marks over where players should play and the seemingly endless debate over Mike Brown, but the pack is great and there's attacking promise all the way across the back line. If England play with the same ferocity as they did against the All Blacks then Ireland will have problems.

It's a fascinating game and I for one can't wait.

Mr Bounce

Posts : 2314
Join date : 2011-03-18
Location : East of Florida, West of Felixstowe

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by rodders on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:51 pm

IRELAND: Henshaw, Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Furlong, Ryan, Toner, O’Mahony, van der Flier, Stander.
Replacements: Cronin, Kilcoyne, Porter, Roux, O’Brien, Cooney, Carbery, Larmour.

No complaints, Addison maybe would have been a good option on the bench but looking forward to see how Henshaw goes at 15.

Roux on the bench seems the smart call but Henderson is a big loss against this powerful England 23.

The clash between Tuilagi and Aki in midfield will be explosive!
rodders
rodders
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 24962
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 38

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:53 pm

Just to clarify, it was Neil Francis who called Wilson and curry journeymen. And we'll... Francis is Francis no-one really pays him any attention.

carpet baboon

Posts : 2223
Join date : 2014-05-08
Location : Midlands

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by marty2086 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:55 pm

Going by that side, I'm expecting guys like Addison, McGrath and Murphy to be part of a rotated squad down the line

marty2086

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 32
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by BamBam on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:56 pm

Oof that looks good. Not going to shout too loudly, but I think we may have the edge in terms of impact off the bench ..

In reply to the comment about Curry lacking the thumping power of Underhill in the tackle on part 1, I actually think that is an area where Curry really stood out on the South African tour, I was surprised just how well he did knocking those lads backwards. I'm backing him to pleasantly surprise some, and allow others to say "I told you so" after this week


BamBam

Posts : 15004
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:56 pm

Well he obviously hasn't seen either play or know much about them.

Wilson maybe be unassuming, unflashy on the pitch...but he does the nitty gritty and provides the 8/10 consistency week in week out that is essential for a team.

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 20950
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by BamBam on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:57 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Just to clarify, it was Neil Francis who called Wilson and curry journeymen. And we'll... Francis is Francis no-one really pays him any attention.

Calling a 20 year old a journeyman would explain why no one pays him any attention

BamBam

Posts : 15004
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by marty2086 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 1:59 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well he obviously hasn't seen either play or know much about them.

Wilson maybe be unassuming, unflashy on the pitch...but he does the nitty gritty and provides the 8/10 consistency week in week out that is essential for a team.

He says thinks to be controversial, he just ends up looking like an idiot

marty2086

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 32
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by rodders on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:Going by that side, I'm expecting guys like Addison, McGrath and Murphy to be part of a rotated squad down the line


I'm certain they'll be planning for some changes for Scotland, this game will be brutal!
rodders
rodders
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 24962
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 38

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:02 pm

To be fair he doesn't call Curry a journey man. Simply says he's not up to it. Says vunipola doesn't carry international form into the game and isn't a good trainer.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17715
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by mzan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:11 pm

A number of mistakes in that squad for me.

Launchbury should be somewhere in the 23.  He may not be as good as the other locks jumping in the lineout (I'd say he's better for the counter drive though), but I think we're coming out decidely second best there anyway.  I'd rather have his workrate, nous, breakdown ability and strength.  Areas I think we can put up more of a fight.  One of Kruis, Lawes or Hughes (wouldn't want him as a 6 in this game) should have been left out instead.

Daly is not good enough in the air (particularly under static ball), or as last man in defence to be a top level international 15.  I'm also not convinced my his runs from deep when the rest of his team are in front of him and the defence has time to coalesce.  The strengths of his runs are in more conventional fields where he can isolate defenders and create indecision with his footwork, passing and kicking game, bringing on support runners.

Tuilagi has been tried at 12 at club and international level before.  It hasn't looked right.  It doesn't suit his running style, and he doesn't have the passing game.  Defensively it should be OK, Tuilagi taking Aki, and Slade keeping an eye on the dangerous Ringrose. In attack, I'd prefer to see Slade and Tuilagi swap positions though, particularly with Nowell, May & Daly to be brought into the line.

One thing I will be looking forward to is a split attack, with Farrell and Slade taking the first receiver roles, then Tuilagi and Daly either side.

mzan

Posts : 38
Join date : 2012-04-12

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by robbo277 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:12 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:VdF at 7 as expected, everyone else as expected.

So to summarise, everyone as expected? Wink

robbo277

Posts : 3820
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by nathan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:16 pm

mzan wrote:A number of mistakes in that squad for me.

Launchbury should be somewhere in the 23.  He may not be as good as the other locks jumping in the lineout (I'd say he's better for the counter drive though), but I think we're coming out decidely second best there anyway.  I'd rather have his workrate, nous, breakdown ability and strength.  Areas I think we can put up more of a fight.  One of Kruis, Lawes or Hughes (wouldn't want him as a 6 in this game) should have been left out instead.

Daly is not good enough in the air (particularly under static ball), or as last man in defence to be a top level international 15.  I'm also not convinced my his runs from deep when the rest of his team are in front of him and the defence has time to coalesce.  The strengths of his runs are in more conventional fields where he can isolate defenders and create indecision with his footwork, passing and kicking game, bringing on support runners.

Tuilagi has been tried at 12 at club and international level before.  It hasn't looked right.  It doesn't suit his running style, and he doesn't have the passing game.  Defensively it should be OK, Tuilagi taking Aki, and Slade keeping an eye on the dangerous Ringrose. In attack, I'd prefer to see Slade and Tuilagi swap positions though, particularly with Nowell, May & Daly to be brought into the line.

One thing I will be looking forward to is a split attack, with Farrell and Slade taking the first receiver roles, then Tuilagi and Daly either side.

There's rumours Lauchbury is suffering from a neck issue.

Agree regarding Daly, can't help but think this is last chance saloon for him.

Manu and Slade will swap positions during the game.

nathan

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2011-06-14
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:17 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:VdF at 7 as expected, everyone else as expected.

So to summarise, everyone as expected? Wink

Not so actually. Carbury has been dropped to the bench so there is a change at 10 and it'll be Sexton as usual now.

SecretFly

Posts : 29444
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:23 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:VdF at 7 as expected, everyone else as expected.

So to summarise, everyone as expected? Wink

Yeah except Henshaw albeit I did actually expect him to be picked at 15 so yeah everyone as expected.

Collapse2005

Posts : 2825
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by robbo277 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:28 pm

From Chris Jones at the BBC, who was talking to Eddie Jones

- Ben Te'o would definitely have started
- Mike Brown strongly considered for 15
- Expect to see a Ford/Farrell/Tuilagi combo at some point
- Kruis picked to counter Irish lineout
- Ireland not 'boring', but 'methodical'

Source: https://twitter.com/chjones9/status/1090965158682390528

I think then the midfield of Farrell, Te'o, Slade with Ford and Tuilagi on the bench is what we would have been going for then in this game, and Eddie's decision was basically to promote Tuilagi. If that's the way they'd be training for a couple of weeks, then shifting Farrell or Slade probably doesn't help.

Other points made by Jones are interesting re: Brown and Kruis. Picking Kruis shows he's flexible in his approach when looking at opposition threats, sticking with Daly shows that he simultaneously isn't?

robbo277

Posts : 3820
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:28 pm

Joe Schmidt's last ever game against England in the Aviva.

Collapse2005

Posts : 2825
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by mzan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:33 pm

nathan wrote:
mzan wrote:A number of mistakes in that squad for me.

Launchbury should be somewhere in the 23.  He may not be as good as the other locks jumping in the lineout (I'd say he's better for the counter drive though), but I think we're coming out decidely second best there anyway.  I'd rather have his workrate, nous, breakdown ability and strength.  Areas I think we can put up more of a fight.  One of Kruis, Lawes or Hughes (wouldn't want him as a 6 in this game) should have been left out instead.

Daly is not good enough in the air (particularly under static ball), or as last man in defence to be a top level international 15.  I'm also not convinced my his runs from deep when the rest of his team are in front of him and the defence has time to coalesce.  The strengths of his runs are in more conventional fields where he can isolate defenders and create indecision with his footwork, passing and kicking game, bringing on support runners.

Tuilagi has been tried at 12 at club and international level before.  It hasn't looked right.  It doesn't suit his running style, and he doesn't have the passing game.  Defensively it should be OK, Tuilagi taking Aki, and Slade keeping an eye on the dangerous Ringrose. In attack, I'd prefer to see Slade and Tuilagi swap positions though, particularly with Nowell, May & Daly to be brought into the line.

One thing I will be looking forward to is a split attack, with Farrell and Slade taking the first receiver roles, then Tuilagi and Daly either side.

There's rumours Lauchbury is suffering from a neck issue.

Agree regarding Daly, can't help but think this is last chance saloon for him.

Manu and Slade will swap positions during the game.

Thanks nathan. If I remember rightly, he went off early against Leinster with a neck injury.

mzan

Posts : 38
Join date : 2012-04-12

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:35 pm

I wonder is Tuilagi at 12 to keep Aki quiet. I expect Aki would have blitzed Farrell at 12 all day. Two Samoan bruisers facing off, should be good.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

Collapse2005

Posts : 2825
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by lostinwales on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:35 pm

nathan wrote:
mzan wrote:A number of mistakes in that squad for me.

Launchbury should be somewhere in the 23.  He may not be as good as the other locks jumping in the lineout (I'd say he's better for the counter drive though), but I think we're coming out decidely second best there anyway.  I'd rather have his workrate, nous, breakdown ability and strength.  Areas I think we can put up more of a fight.  One of Kruis, Lawes or Hughes (wouldn't want him as a 6 in this game) should have been left out instead.

Daly is not good enough in the air (particularly under static ball), or as last man in defence to be a top level international 15.  I'm also not convinced my his runs from deep when the rest of his team are in front of him and the defence has time to coalesce.  The strengths of his runs are in more conventional fields where he can isolate defenders and create indecision with his footwork, passing and kicking game, bringing on support runners.

Tuilagi has been tried at 12 at club and international level before.  It hasn't looked right.  It doesn't suit his running style, and he doesn't have the passing game.  Defensively it should be OK, Tuilagi taking Aki, and Slade keeping an eye on the dangerous Ringrose. In attack, I'd prefer to see Slade and Tuilagi swap positions though, particularly with Nowell, May & Daly to be brought into the line.

One thing I will be looking forward to is a split attack, with Farrell and Slade taking the first receiver roles, then Tuilagi and Daly either side.

There's rumours Lauchbury is suffering from a neck issue.

Agree regarding Daly, can't help but think this is last chance saloon for him.

Manu and Slade will swap positions during the game.

The last game he played he went off for an HIA - which he passed - but was kept off because of his neck. At the time it was not thought serious but maybe it is taking time to heal

lostinwales

Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by rodders on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:51 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I wonder is Tuilagi at 12 to keep Aki quiet. I expect Aki would have blitzed Farrell at 12 all day. Two Samoan bruisers facing off, should be good.

Could be, Aki is a bit underrated I think. To me he offers a bit more in attack than Henshaw and is a better foil for Ringrose too.

It's funny how little debate there is about Irish selection these days...
rodders
rodders
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 24962
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 38

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 2:52 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I wonder is Tuilagi at 12 to keep Aki quiet. I expect Aki would have blitzed Farrell at 12 all day. Two Samoan bruisers facing off, should be good.

Not so sure about that one.

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 20950
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 3:06 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Just to clarify, it was Neil Francis who called Wilson and curry journeymen. And we'll... Francis is Francis no-one really pays him any attention.
Thanks... and, sorry...I didn't realize Francis was on the podcast, and just went by the credits. To be honest, now I know it was him, it makes more sense, and I can discount it, because he's always like that.

Rugby Fan

Posts : 5420
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 3:16 pm

rodders wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:I wonder is Tuilagi at 12 to keep Aki quiet. I expect Aki would have blitzed Farrell at 12 all day. Two Samoan bruisers facing off, should be good.

Could be, Aki is a bit underrated I think. To me he offers a bit more in attack than Henshaw and is a better foil for Ringrose too.

It's funny how little debate there is about Irish selection these days...

That's only because the old Munster fan chestnut of but but but Schmidt has never won a grand slam have now evaporated and there are no excuses left not to trust in the messiah.

Collapse2005

Posts : 2825
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 3:17 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:I wonder is Tuilagi at 12 to keep Aki quiet. I expect Aki would have blitzed Farrell at 12 all day. Two Samoan bruisers facing off, should be good.

Not so sure about that one.

You could probably start Peter Stringer at 12 and he would get over the gain line with Farrell at 12.

Collapse2005

Posts : 2825
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by robbo277 on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 3:33 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:I wonder is Tuilagi at 12 to keep Aki quiet. I expect Aki would have blitzed Farrell at 12 all day. Two Samoan bruisers facing off, should be good.

Not so sure about that one.

You could probably start Peter Stringer at 12 and he would get over the gain line with Farrell at 12.

Izaak Rodda disagrees. Whistle

robbo277

Posts : 3820
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by nathan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 3:36 pm

Some interesting (well to me anyway) facts for you.

Englands pack weighs 940kgs, whilst this weekends massive French pack weighs 953kgs.

If England beat Irelands by more than 15 points they'll shoot up to 2nd in the ranking.s

nathan

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2011-06-14
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by miaow on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:02 pm

mzan wrote:

Daly is not good enough in the air (particularly under static ball)

I assume you mean when trying to jump/catch from a static position, as opposed to having a run-up into the catch? Otherwise that's a weird, physics-defying scenario...time to check the B samples of the blood/wee tests.

miaow

Posts : 2440
Join date : 2011-03-31

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Presuming Ed on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:06 pm

I feel very confident when looking at both teams that England can boss this one from the start. The one exception and a very important one is the back row. Ireland's is world class while England's is neither powerful enough or very mobile (Billy's fitness being unproven). England's massive injury toll in the back row could be the defining difference - Simmonds, Underhill, Robshaw, Hughes and co will be sorely missed, hopefully not too much.

Presuming Ed

Posts : 82
Join date : 2016-01-15

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:12 pm

Presuming Ed wrote:I feel very confident when looking at both teams that England can boss this one from the start. The one exception and a very important one is the back row. Ireland's is world class while England's is neither powerful enough or very mobile (Billy's fitness being unproven). England's massive injury toll in the back row could be the defining difference - Simmonds, Underhill, Robshaw, Hughes and co will be sorely missed, hopefully not too much.

Personally I see Ireland's pack as being superior.
Our scrum is better.
Lineout both offence and defence is better.
Our backrowers as a whole unit is superior.

Can't see England getting much from us upfront at all

carpet baboon

Posts : 2223
Join date : 2014-05-08
Location : Midlands

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by rodders on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:16 pm

Liking the confidence Ed.

Have to say was very confident Ireland would win this by 10 plus but I'm a little bit more nervous now the teams are announced, I think this could be a lot closer.
rodders
rodders
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 24962
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 38

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:22 pm

rodders wrote:Liking the confidence Ed.

Have to say was very confident Ireland would win this by 10 plus but I'm a little bit more nervous now the teams are announced, I think this could be a lot closer.

I'm actually more confident now I've seen both teams. Just feel England will be trying to hard with to many untested units

carpet baboon

Posts : 2223
Join date : 2014-05-08
Location : Midlands

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by nathan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:27 pm

Until Genge comes on and runs over a few Irish players. Smile

nathan

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2011-06-14
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by lostinwales on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:27 pm

Presuming Ed wrote:I feel very confident when looking at both teams that England can boss this one from the start. The one exception and a very important one is the back row. Ireland's is world class while England's is neither powerful enough or very mobile (Billy's fitness being unproven). England's massive injury toll in the back row could be the defining difference - Simmonds, Underhill, Robshaw, Hughes and co will be sorely missed, hopefully not too much.

Hughes is on the bench. Of the other names we do miss Underhill but Curry also has a lot of potential. I like Simmonds but its hard to squeeze him in to the team, particularly if we feel we need another line out jumper. Robshaw has been out for such a long time - and Wilson is a more than able replacement.

If Billy is fit and on form he's a monster

lostinwales

Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:28 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:I wonder is Tuilagi at 12 to keep Aki quiet. I expect Aki would have blitzed Farrell at 12 all day. Two Samoan bruisers facing off, should be good.

Not so sure about that one.

You could probably start Peter Stringer at 12 and he would get over the gain line with Farrell at 12.

Again i disagree...but that's what a forum is for... OK

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 20950
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Presuming Ed on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:30 pm

It will be close across the park, but feel our tight 5 shades it as do the backs, but back row for England does look week and although as an ex flanker I may be accused of being biased, they are the key to any good performance.

Presuming Ed

Posts : 82
Join date : 2016-01-15

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by lostinwales on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:30 pm

nathan wrote:Until Genge comes on and runs over a few Irish players. Smile

I don't think England have ever played such an 'offensive' set of props before. All 4 useful ball in hand.

Worthwhile looking out for Sinckler tackling. He seems to belong to the same school of defense as Lawes.

lostinwales

Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:33 pm

i didn't even notice Genge on the bench!!

OOh now im looking forward to the demented Rhino coming on!

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 20950
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by miaow on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:38 pm

All the talk/worry about Tuilagi and Slade's shirt number(s) is relatively moot.

How often do teams line up 10-12-13 these days? Even from set-piece, first phase ball, inevitably there's a winger or a fullback thrown in there somewhere interesting. If it's anywhere centraly, then the backline is split in two. Once you get into the phase-play itself, then all hell breaks loose if you're of the old school: not only are the backs not lined up numerically to try and run it in in the corner, but there are forwards in the backline.

And not only that, but they're attacking in two different lines. With pods of 2 or 3 depending on the situation. And they're adapting to what's in front of them; everyone is a possible ball carrier, everyone a possible distributor (within reason).

Tuilagi will of course be a decoy far more often than he is a carrier. As will most players. But he, Vunipola, Sinckler, Genge, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes will all be used as blunt, powerful battering rams. England are the most direct team in the NH. They run powerful, dynamic, straight lines over and over and over to make sure they're getting over the gainline. It works because they're bigger than just about every team in the planet. It worked against NZ. Once you get momentum and have a defending team going backwards, even if they're the All Blacks, it is very, very hard to defend against when you have the option of rumbling it on, or moving it into the hands of someone with the pace of May, Ashton, and to a lesser extent Daly.

What makes England dangerous is that they have dynamic beef in practically every position. George, Sinckler, and Mako is an unbelievably good carrying front 3. Tadgh Furlong might be the best 3 in the world, and fits that mould of dynamic beef, and although Healy used to be in this vein, neither Healy, McGrath, nor Best are quite as good as England's. Perhaps Cronin is more dynamic, but then he's not as good as a blunt tool taking it into contact and grinding that extra hard yard to make sure the rumble keeps moving. He's not as big and strong.

You look at the locks, and it's the same situation in comparison to Ireland. Henderson is brilliant in a different, niggly way, and Beirne possibly better at carrying the ball than England's locks, but neither are included. Toner and Roux obviously offer strength in the respective set-pieces that could also be vital/win a game. Where England are weaker is the back-row: Underhill is standout, and will be a big loss. B Vunipola obviously the model for England - but the flankers don't fit England's model of big, hard, dynamic ball carriers. They might not need them to be though. That's the beauty of sport - we'll have to find out if the balance of England's pack is enough to get past a technically 'better', more disciplined, more 'boring' Irish backrow.

But yeah, I don't really understand the fascination with numbers. England play in a fairly 'disorganised' (in that it's hard to read, making it dangerous) pod system I think, with at least 2-3 carrying options on a short ball, and then the ball out the back. They are direct, and they are physical, and eventually - because of their physical strength - when England look good, as they did in the autumn, having these options means they can make a pass relatively late to the best placed player; whether that be because there is a diconnect or a mismatch in the defence, or simply because they're the one offering themselves at pace and have timed their run well. Obviously a lot will also be preplanned too, it's not just reactive. But, like Ireland, they're good at playing an unscripted move because they know they're powerful enough to make the gainline.

England fans get upset when I call them direct because they think it means 10 man rugby - but that game is dead and gone. Rugby has changed immensely in the last 10-15 years, you can't get away with rumbling around in the forwards, and the hoofing the ball for territory. It doesn't mean that at all - but they are still very direct and forward/power-oriented. Which they should be - it's their strength. The French league might be more bruising, but it's nowhere near as dynamic as the Premiership. Which is why England have typically played at a tempo France can't keep up with for the last 9ish years, but France have still scored some messy wonder tries at times against England/given them a physical battle when the tempo drops.

Anyway, back to this game. England will target Ireland's inside shoulder repeatedly as long as they aren't struggling to get over the gainline/being pinged in the rucks. Keep them in check - probably with the cannonball players, i.e. the front rowers, offering themselves on a short/inside pass. If they stretch the Irish defence to create mismatches, then you get Slade coming is as a second receiver either in the wide/second line of attack, or stepping in if Farrell is out of position. Tuilagi plays his part in this, but by and large, he'll be a key ball carrier in the 2nd/3rd phase attacks I would have thought. And perhaps a key man in some first phase set plays. Just as important as the ball carrier, though, is the man on his shoulder - this is where Tuilagi is brutal, and you really see his carrying ability as you get him 1 on 1 with an outside back behind the gainline. Likewise, May, Nowell, Daly, and Ashton will be key; if they get a clean line then they should be finishing off gainline busts. But something tells me Ireland are a bit too savvy to let them clean through.

The thing that's interesting is that, almost contrary to this style of England playing fairly close to the ruck, Ireland do seem to have some issues with their wide fringe defence. So, expect at some point - possibly from the first whistle to catch them early, possibly after softening them up after a string of short balls - for England to suddenly go 'wide wide' ith 2-3 passes and try to start spreading the play as quickly as possible. Here's where Nowell comes in vital, his jinking to stay on his feet for support, and his low centre of gravity to secure ruck ball before bigger support arrives.

Also, how Ireland defend the backline will be intriguing. Typically, I think they've kept 14 in the defensive line, with the 15, and sometimes a winger or less so a 9, covering the backfield depending on the situation. Farrell is a good tactical kicker; whether for position or a scoring kick, with the pace of May (and Ashton off the bench, very dangerous player to watch out for) Ireland might get caught out. It's not just about carrying the ball for England, particularly if Ireland put up a solid gainline defence and, perhaps, cause enough trouble in the rucks to make them want to kick it.

England have all the attributes to win this game. Looking at the teams, I think this will be closer than my initial prediction of Ireland by 11, and England might even nick it by 5. But I'll stick to the initial prediction - for all England's literal strengths, I don't believe Schmidt will be putting him team out unprepared for the fight. There are also question marks over some English positions as well - and it's true, Ireland will bore England with the ball, grinding them down with painful accuracy and efficiency.

Battles all over the field in terms of positional match ups as well. Hope it lives up to the hype.


Last edited by miaow on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

miaow

Posts : 2440
Join date : 2011-03-31

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 4:40 pm

Presuming Ed wrote:It will be close across the park, but feel our tight 5 shades it as do the backs, but back row for England does look week and although as an ex flanker I may be accused of being biased, they are the key to any good performance.
I think comparing the starting packs that Ireland are better in the set piece and breakdown. However Genge and Williams are better scrummagers than our starting pair. With Lawes also likely to make an impact when he comes on, the game will be interesting in the final quarter IF we have not let Ireland pull too far ahead. Sadly I feel we will be too far behind by then.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19521
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by nathan on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 5:05 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Presuming Ed wrote:It will be close across the park, but feel our tight 5 shades it as do the backs, but back row for England does look week and although as an ex flanker I may be accused of being biased, they are the key to any good performance.
I think comparing the starting packs that Ireland are better in the set piece and breakdown. However Genge and Williams are better scrummagers than our starting pair. With Lawes also likely to make an impact when he comes on, the game will be interesting in the final quarter IF we have not let Ireland pull too far ahead. Sadly I feel we will be too far behind by then.

Thats when we'll likely see Ford come on to see what a Ford Farrell/Manu lineup looks like with Genge, Williams and Billy running of late passes.

nathan

Posts : 10887
Join date : 2011-06-14
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 31 Jan 2019, 5:27 pm

lostinwales wrote:
nathan wrote:Until Genge comes on and runs over a few Irish players. Smile

I don't think England have ever played such an 'offensive' set of props before. All 4 useful ball in hand.

Worthwhile looking out for Sinckler tackling. He seems to belong to the same school of defense as Lawes.

You mean late hits on outside halves? Whistle

Luckless Pedestrian

Posts : 23167
Join date : 2011-02-01
Age : 40
Location : Newport

Back to top Go down

6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2) Empty Re: 6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 15 1, 2, 3 ... 8 ... 15  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum