6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:42 am

First topic message reminder :

6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 9 Scot_f10     6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 9 Irelan10 
SCOTLAND IRELAND 
9 February 2019
KO: 14:15
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: Pascal Gaüzère (France) and Alexandre Ruiz (France)
Television match official: Rowan Kitt (England)

Live on [paddy TV and jock TV]

A. Head to Head

134 Played 134
67 Won 62
6 Drawn 6
62 Lost 67
1,415 Points 1,525

B. Recent Form

10 March 2018
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28–8 to Ireland

4 February 2017
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
27–22 to Scotland

19 March 2016
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
35 – 25 to Ireland

15 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 22 to Ireland

21 March 2015
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
10 – 40 to Ireland

2 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 6 to Ireland

24 February 2013
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
12 – 8 to Scotland

10 March 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
32 – 14 to Ireland

6 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 6 to Scotland

27 February 2011
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
18 – 21 to Ireland

20 March 2010
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 23 to Scotland

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 9 Scotla10

[TBC]

IRELAND 
6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 9 Irelan10

[TBC]
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Post by RDW on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 6:20 pm

Jones wasn't great - he's certainly not been helped by barely playing for Glasgow all season.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 6:27 pm

Great try Italy, a bit to late unfortunately

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Post by BigGee on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 6:27 pm

BigGee wrote:Great try Italy, a bit to late unfortunately

Opps, wrong thread!

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 7:13 pm

Cant wait to see Auckland born, AB inspired Carbery take over the reigns from old man Sexton Laugh
Moved at 11 but already the seed was planted.
From nowhere behind the gain line, sets off, crashes through a lock and prop and hurls forty meters and delivers a sweet pass for the try.
Sextons pass to the well time run of Stockdale the other gem. Two moments that made the difference in this match. The rest, par in regulation stuff. Packs and defences sorting eachother out.

Ireland have regrouped and held off an ok Scot challenge which faltered on their own inability to create moments.
Should have scored in the ten before the half.
Picked 26-13 for this one, a pity ireland couldnt get two more conversions Laugh

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 7:27 pm

Six Nations results from the Scottish weekend:

Scotland Club XV 19-19 Ireland Club XV (Ireland win Dalriada Cup 42-28 on agg.)
Scotland U20 5-24 Ireland U20
Scotland Women 5-22 Ireland Women
Scotland Men 13-22 Ireland Men

Irish Students v Scottish Students tomorrow at Dub Lane

Could it be a clean sweep or a Scottish comeback?
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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 7:37 pm

Taylorman wrote:Cant wait to see Auckland born, AB inspired Carbery take over the reigns from old man Sexton Laugh

Reins, Tman, reins - as on a horse. Tsk, tsk.

Did you know that Joey Carbery is actually Joe Carbery IV? His father, Irish-born as well apparently, grandfather and great-grandfather were all called Joe - and all came from Athy in Co. Kildare and all played for UCD. Joe Carbery the second, can still be found playing the saxophone with his band in pubs and clubs in Auckland.
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 7:54 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Cant wait to see Auckland born, AB inspired Carbery take over the reigns from old man Sexton Laugh

Reins, Tman, reins - as on a horse.  Tsk, tsk.

Did you know that Joey Carbery is actually Joe Carbery IV?  His father, Irish-born as well apparently, grandfather and great-grandfather were all called Joe - and all came from Athy in Co. Kildare and all played for UCD.   Joe Carbery the second, can still be found playing the saxophone with his band in pubs and clubs in Auckland.  

Oh that neither here nor they’re...apple is now responsible for all my spelling and grammar, (I pay them enuff) laughing

Quite a story there but great to see his inspiration followed through in Ireland...started playing at 4...now thats keen. Theyre funny at that age. The whole of both sides seem to be one endless swarm of fish around the field everywhere the ball is. It moves one way the lot move with it.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 11:39 pm

We were bad but scotland were badder.....

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 11:45 pm

Computer blew up after last week's game! Demoted to a damned tablet for a while. That should keep me quiet for a change. Anyway, it's a brutal, unmerciful gameplay Joe inflicts on this Irish team week in, week out. This Bang,bang.....bang..........bang game really does need a new set of dentures. Running endlessly to contact from standing starts takes it out of players - not just physically but mentally. So much blunt bang,bang effort to drag out wins? Sometimes you just sigh and think these players are better than this exhaustive direct collision stuff.
Anyway, two pretty bad weeks performance-wise, a team strangely out of sync and not remotely at the pace needed to fight for a 6N title. Did Joe really fluff his preparations so badly or is he working to a different deadline. A here is the positive if you believe his focus isn't fully on the immediate prize - as Pot said earlier, a whole bunch of top ranked Irish Internationals not playing - form demonstrably dire and yet dragging 20 points from the rout by the English and now winning this away game against a Scottish side that really believe they've the ammo to take on the best.
So - have Ireland peaked too soon - or are they simply taking a well earned break from last year's intensity stuff?
I still say Joe needs to let these players Play more - the one dimensional stuff adds acres of effort to games that could be a damn sight easier with plays to avoid contact and create space.

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Post by 123456789. on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 11:47 pm

I thought we were going to win it at half time, the momentum was with us and then things just peeled off. Not scoring before half time was a killer. I do think setting up for a drop goal and going in at half time ahead would have been the best option. Although I'm not sure the conservative option is in Russell's play book.
The second half was an utter shambles, let's not kid ourselves Ireland were poor. If either of the teams had properly shown up today they would have won by an utter landslide. If we played any team in the top 10 in the world that was slightly on their game we would have been spanked in that second half. Jonny Gray had his worse performance in a Scotland shirt that I can remember. Huw Jones wasn't great although he wasn't that bad either. Johnson played well. Kinghorn was decent in the first half, and very poor in the second. Seymour and Maitland looked out of step with the game. I know mistakes happen but Seymour's blunder would be unforgivable at schoolboy level. MacInally was very strong again, as was Ritchie, Strauss also and I thought Wilson was having a decent game too before he came off. Russell and Laidlaw were showing good form. Hoggy looked to be simmering before he got injured. Rob Harley, unfortunately, is just not cut out for this level. He's a very good squad player for Glasgow. But that missed tackle on Carberry, for example, was just not good enough. I know we're short in the back row but we have better options than him, especially when you consider he's pretty much a full time second-row at Glasgow now.
It's so frustrating because the only thing that stops Scotland from winning the big games, is Scotland. Ireland are so good not because their players are head and shoulders above ours but because they never switch off. Even last week England had to work for their tries, this week we put two of theirs on a platter. Similarly, we butchered a simple two on one finish in the corner. I don't mind Stockdale's try, it was well worked and well finished. Romain Poite wasn't very good, it's difficult to say if he was poor all round or just against Scotland however we have to face up to the fact that his poorest calls were made because we allowed them to be made. If Strauss wasn't isolated then O'Brien doesn't disrupt the ball and Poite doesn't have a decision to make. Ireland don't have the absurdly long advantages if we don't give away simple penalties. The referee doesn't have a decision on forward passes unless we miss basic tackles. The O'Mahony-Hogg incident is being picked up on a fair bit. But it's one of those things that really only O'Mahony will know the answer to. If it's deliberate then it's pretty dirty play (although if Hogg wasn't injured it probably wouldn't be spoken of) but it could easily be accidental. I do think O'Mahony belongs to the Martin Johnson area of players, to his supporters he's a hardman to his opponents he's dirty. I loved supporting him when he was a Lion, and enjoy watching him as a neutral. But this week, and to an extent last week as well, he's come across as a whinger and a bit of a cheat at points. But then the same accusation could easily be fired at Wilson. Every team has one, and every team probably needs one. We certainly missed ours in the second half which I didn't think I'd be saying this six nations.
There's no question to be had, Scotland lost today because we weren't good enough, not generally and certainly at the key moments.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 1:40 am

SecretFly wrote:Computer blew up after last week's game! Demoted to a damned tablet for a while. That should keep me quiet for a change.  Anyway, it's a brutal, unmerciful gameplay Joe inflicts on this Irish team week in, week out.  This Bang,bang.....bang..........bang game really does need a new set of dentures.  Running endlessly to contact from standing starts takes it out of players - not just physically but mentally.  So much blunt bang,bang effort to drag out wins?  Sometimes you just sigh and think these players are better than this exhaustive direct collision stuff.  
Anyway, two pretty bad weeks performance-wise, a team strangely out of sync and not remotely at the pace needed to fight for a 6N title.  Did Joe really fluff his preparations so badly or is he working to a different deadline.  A here is the positive if you believe his focus isn't fully on the immediate prize - as Pot said earlier, a whole bunch of top ranked Irish Internationals not playing - form demonstrably dire and yet dragging 20 points from the rout by the English and now winning this away game against a Scottish side that really believe they've the ammo to take on the best.
So - have Ireland peaked too soon - or are they simply taking a well earned break from last year's intensity stuff?
I still say Joe needs to let these players Play more - the one dimensional stuff adds acres of effort to games that could be a damn sight easier with plays to avoid contact and create space.

Yes and theyre already doing the bang bang now, seven months out from the world cup. At what point does one rest yet built up the momentum to the world cup with increasingly difficult matches to prepare them? Our guys have been off for three months now and will start settling into Super rugby next week, many will wait a few rounds before starting, with a steady run into the cut down RC.

Love to know how the current 6N squads will manage their key players, and how much the clubs will assist. Thats the biggest issue for thos sides.

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Post by R!skysports on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 8:12 am

Sadly same old same old from us.

One step forward one step back.

Think we are just not as good as we think and come undone too often when up against it.

I would not be surprised if we end up with only one win this 6 nations.

We seem to be treading water while the rest of the teams move forward.

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Post by RDW on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 8:36 am

123456789. wrote:I thought we were going to win it at half time, the momentum was with us and then things just peeled off. Not scoring before half time was a killer. I do think setting up for a drop goal and going in at half time ahead would have been the best option. Although I'm not sure the conservative option is in Russell's play book.
The second half was an utter shambles, let's not kid ourselves Ireland were poor. If either of the teams had properly shown up today they would have won by an utter landslide. If we played any team in the top 10 in the world that was slightly on their game we would have been spanked in that second half. Jonny Gray had his worse performance in a Scotland shirt that I can remember. Huw Jones wasn't great although he wasn't that bad either. Johnson played well. Kinghorn was decent in the first half, and very poor in the second. Seymour and Maitland looked out of step with the game. I know mistakes happen but Seymour's blunder would be unforgivable at schoolboy level. MacInally was very strong again, as was Ritchie, Strauss also and I thought Wilson was having a decent game too before he came off. Russell and Laidlaw were showing good form. Hoggy looked to be simmering before he got injured. Rob Harley, unfortunately, is just not cut out for this level. He's a very good squad player for Glasgow. But that missed tackle on Carberry, for example, was just not good enough. I know we're short in the back row but we have better options than him, especially when you consider he's pretty much a full time second-row at Glasgow now.
It's so frustrating because the only thing that stops Scotland from winning the big games, is Scotland. Ireland are so good not because their players are head and shoulders above ours but because they never switch off. Even last week England had to work for their tries, this week we put two of theirs on a platter. Similarly, we butchered a simple two on one finish in the corner. I don't mind Stockdale's try, it was well worked and well finished. Romain Poite wasn't very good, it's difficult to say if he was poor all round or just against Scotland however we have to face up to the fact that his poorest calls were made because we allowed them to be made. If Strauss wasn't isolated then O'Brien doesn't disrupt the ball and Poite doesn't have a decision to make. Ireland don't have the absurdly long advantages if we don't give away simple penalties. The referee doesn't have a decision on forward passes unless we miss basic tackles. The O'Mahony-Hogg incident is being picked up on a fair bit. But it's one of those things that really only O'Mahony will know the answer to. If it's deliberate then it's pretty dirty play (although if Hogg wasn't injured it probably wouldn't be spoken of) but it could easily be accidental. I do think O'Mahony belongs to the Martin Johnson area of players, to his supporters he's a hardman to his opponents he's dirty. I loved supporting him when he was a Lion, and enjoy watching him as a neutral. But this week, and to an extent last week as well, he's come across as a whinger and a bit of a cheat at points. But then the same accusation could easily be fired at Wilson. Every team has one, and every team probably needs one. We certainly missed ours in the second half which I didn't think I'd be saying this six nations.
There's no question to be had, Scotland lost today because we weren't good enough, not generally and certainly at the key moments.

Excellent summary numbers, especially regarding taking responsibility of ourselves so dodgy reffing doesn't affect the result (although that 30m penalty advantage really annoyed me!)

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Post by RDW on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 8:42 am

SecretFly wrote:Computer blew up after last week's game! Demoted to a damned tablet for a while. That should keep me quiet for a change.  Anyway, it's a brutal, unmerciful gameplay Joe inflicts on this Irish team week in, week out.  This Bang,bang.....bang..........bang game really does need a new set of dentures.  Running endlessly to contact from standing starts takes it out of players - not just physically but mentally.  So much blunt bang,bang effort to drag out wins?  Sometimes you just sigh and think these players are better than this exhaustive direct collision stuff.  
Anyway, two pretty bad weeks performance-wise, a team strangely out of sync and not remotely at the pace needed to fight for a 6N title.  Did Joe really fluff his preparations so badly or is he working to a different deadline.  A here is the positive if you believe his focus isn't fully on the immediate prize - as Pot said earlier, a whole bunch of top ranked Irish Internationals not playing - form demonstrably dire and yet dragging 20 points from the rout by the English and now winning this away game against a Scottish side that really believe they've the ammo to take on the best.
So - have Ireland peaked too soon - or are they simply taking a well earned break from last year's intensity stuff?
I still say Joe needs to let these players Play more - the one dimensional stuff adds acres of effort to games that could be a damn sight easier with plays to avoid contact and create space.

I was about to ask what Irish fans thought of the performance but you've summer it up well. 

I was expecting hellfire and brimstone from Ireland but for a 2nd week it just didn't come. The attack was very 1 dimensional and looked like Edinburgh under Cockerill earlier in the season - 1 out pass and repeat.

Saying that, Scotland did come out hellfire and brimstone in the first half yet you went in ahead. It's also no easy feat to win at Murrayfield these days and you did that with room to spare.

So if I was Irish I would be pleased with the result but certainly concerned about the bigger picture. If you play those tactics against Wales you will lose.

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Post by RDW on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 9:09 am

Finally, good to see Schmidt changed his tune about why sexton went off - he originally accused Scotland of stamping on his head (a very serious accusation) then later admitted it was actually one of his own players in an accident.

Given the history of big accusations after these games it may have been wise for him to make sure he had the facts before making such a claim...


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Post by George Carlin on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 9:09 am

RDW wrote:
123456789. wrote:I thought we were going to win it at half time, the momentum was with us and then things just peeled off. Not scoring before half time was a killer. I do think setting up for a drop goal and going in at half time ahead would have been the best option. Although I'm not sure the conservative option is in Russell's play book.
The second half was an utter shambles, let's not kid ourselves Ireland were poor. If either of the teams had properly shown up today they would have won by an utter landslide. If we played any team in the top 10 in the world that was slightly on their game we would have been spanked in that second half. Jonny Gray had his worse performance in a Scotland shirt that I can remember. Huw Jones wasn't great although he wasn't that bad either. Johnson played well. Kinghorn was decent in the first half, and very poor in the second. Seymour and Maitland looked out of step with the game. I know mistakes happen but Seymour's blunder would be unforgivable at schoolboy level. MacInally was very strong again, as was Ritchie, Strauss also and I thought Wilson was having a decent game too before he came off. Russell and Laidlaw were showing good form. Hoggy looked to be simmering before he got injured. Rob Harley, unfortunately, is just not cut out for this level. He's a very good squad player for Glasgow. But that missed tackle on Carberry, for example, was just not good enough. I know we're short in the back row but we have better options than him, especially when you consider he's pretty much a full time second-row at Glasgow now.
It's so frustrating because the only thing that stops Scotland from winning the big games, is Scotland. Ireland are so good not because their players are head and shoulders above ours but because they never switch off. Even last week England had to work for their tries, this week we put two of theirs on a platter. Similarly, we butchered a simple two on one finish in the corner. I don't mind Stockdale's try, it was well worked and well finished. Romain Poite wasn't very good, it's difficult to say if he was poor all round or just against Scotland however we have to face up to the fact that his poorest calls were made because we allowed them to be made. If Strauss wasn't isolated then O'Brien doesn't disrupt the ball and Poite doesn't have a decision to make. Ireland don't have the absurdly long advantages if we don't give away simple penalties. The referee doesn't have a decision on forward passes unless we miss basic tackles. The O'Mahony-Hogg incident is being picked up on a fair bit. But it's one of those things that really only O'Mahony will know the answer to. If it's deliberate then it's pretty dirty play (although if Hogg wasn't injured it probably wouldn't be spoken of) but it could easily be accidental. I do think O'Mahony belongs to the Martin Johnson area of players, to his supporters he's a hardman to his opponents he's dirty. I loved supporting him when he was a Lion, and enjoy watching him as a neutral. But this week, and to an extent last week as well, he's come across as a whinger and a bit of a cheat at points. But then the same accusation could easily be fired at Wilson. Every team has one, and every team probably needs one. We certainly missed ours in the second half which I didn't think I'd be saying this six nations.
There's no question to be had, Scotland lost today because we weren't good enough, not generally and certainly at the key moments.

Excellent summary numbers, especially regarding taking responsibility of ourselves so dodgy reffing doesn't affect the result (although that 30m penalty advantage really annoyed me!)
Yes, little to add to this. We have the tools to be improve further - we need all of our players fit and we have to even out the consistency. We don't really need an opposition if we play like we did in the second half - we do a pretty good job all by ourselves.

We just need to calm the hell down. Very interested to see how we respond in our away matches because the pressure is very much off, I think.

And we might get Hamish Watson back.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 9:22 am

RDW wrote:Finally, good to see Schmidt changed his tune about why sexton went off - he originally accused Scotland of stamping on his head (a very serious accusation) then later admitted it was actually one of his own players in an accident.

Given the history of big accusations after these games it may have been wise for him to make sure he had the facts before making such a claim...

He said it was a stamp. He never said it was from a Scotland player.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:16 am

The same old, same old from Scotland, flattering to deceive really.

I can't really take much from that game at all now. A few years ago, we might have been happy with that, but not now, as we could do a lot better.

If we were under any illusions about it, we know now that we are not at the same level as the big boys in Europe yet. Yes we may be able to beat them as an occasional one off, but our consistency is still not there. We seem to lack leaders in the team, who can take us by the scruff of the neck and drag us forward when things are not going so well. Ryan Wilson, for all his recognised shortcomings as a player, is one of the few players we have in that category and in the last two weeks, we have been a much poorer side once he departed. Jamie Ritchie may become that player in the future, but it is a lot to expect of him now.

I have to say, I did not like GL moaning about the ref in the post match interview either. Yes, I get he was frustrated by him, but he needed to zip that up. It sets the wrong example and it is also fair to see we managed to lose the game comfortably ourselves, without any help from Monsieur Poite. The guys need to look in the mirror!

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:23 am

Scotland arent that far off really. The game was won by good execution of some clever power plays and a slightly better Irish set piece. Scotlands forwards apart from the set piece matched Irelands by and large. If Scotland add some more moves and get their game plan right they will be there or there abouts. I wouldnt be too down beat about losing in a hard won game against what is still a strong Irish side.

I think a big goal for Scotland for this year should be to improve on what was a dreadful performance v Wales last year.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:29 am

As for Ireland we havent been playing that badly we have been coming up against sides that are completely matching or dominating us in terms of physicality and putting us under lots of pressure. Despite that and at times as in the England game being out played the side is still showing the mental strength to stay in the game and be very competitive. Plenty to work on but its nothing to be overly worried about IMO.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:30 am

We have been saying that for a while though and it still is not happening.

Ireland did not play well in that match, yet we still managed to lose comfortably!

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:35 am

Ireland were put under lots of pressure by Scotland and couldnt exert physical dominance over Scotland. I dont think its as straight forward as saying Ireland didnt play well but rather Ireland were matched in many ways my Scotland.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:48 am

Thought Kearney was outstanding. Also quite pleased with our line out considering we were missing so many players. Some great depth at second row now.

Tadgh Beirne may provide some of the muscle we seem to have been missing. Love the energy Kilcoyne added when he came on. Credit to him.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:51 am

I hear what you are saying and in some ways perhaps we should be happy with matching Ireland physically. They are the number 2 team in the world st the end of the day and getting beaten up physically has been our want again at big teams and what many feel has stopped us moving to the next level.

There is clearly more to it than that though as yesterday showed. The skills under prrssure and the mindset were just not there yet. May be in trying to hard physically, it removed that edge to our game.

Whatever it was, we are not the full package yet and may never be unless we start learning fast from these games.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:24 am

You could make a case for scotland winning the physical battle in that game. In my view this is the most complete Scotland side in a long time. I wouldnt be surprised if they give SA or NZ a real run for their money in the quarters regardless of how the 6N goes.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:30 am

POM got man of match. Well, he's usually in the region if we win. Yet for me personally, the Irish player that most impressed me and who I think really emerged as a potential Great was Stockdale. Some will say I'm late to the party but nope, I don't mean the showboating try scoring. Up until yesterday I just had my doubts about his overall game - defence as well as attack. Maybe some of it had to do with Kearney being there shouting out positional orders but Stockdale seemed to be everywhere - saving our bacon a good few times. I was very impressed with him and he even seems to be getting more calm under the intensity of International. He plays it brightly with a smile on his face but he's developing into a serious all round player.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:44 am

Why did Pom get man of the match? Dont think he was particularly good and probably out muscled by his opposite number, again.

I would have been tempted to give it to Carbery or Stockdale. None of our forwards stood out really in my view.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:44 am

Well, yesterday opened a whole new can of worms. vomit

First up : Ireland clap You won, well done. clap


Secondly, that first half could have gone either way. Arguably we were the better side and should have gone in ahead, but if you don't take your chances it will come back to haunt you.


Thirdly, that is, what, NINE games in a row where we have failed to score a try in the second half? I'm beginning to suspect that teams are confident that if they get ahead of us they can sit back, give us the ball and watch us find new and inventive ways to give it back to them. Certainly once Ireland scored first in the second half yesterday that pretty much the pattern of the rest of the match. Again, there is a grizzled old kiwi voice in the back of my head (why do they come to me to die?) droning on about the "crucial ten minutes either side of half time": if we had scored just before the break and stopped them from scoring so soon after then we would all be here reading about what a genius Toonie is. The irritating thing is we SHOULD have gone in ahead: we had plenty of time camped on their line. Yes the Irish defended like a nun at an orgy but we should have been smart enough to know that three points and going in one point ahead was good enough.

Player wise?
Rambo, Ritchie, Bluto, Batman all played well enough to be drinking sake this summer. Dancer was excellent, with the caveat that the only try we created came from an interception rather than unlocking the green defence.

But, it was two very evenly matched teams with very little between them. It does occur to me that after the match in Paris last week AWJ said that at half time the Welsh decided they would have more chance of winning if they allowed the French to have more of the ball. It would seem that the way the laws stand, or are refereed, the way to win matches nowadays is to get your nose in front and then allow your opponents to have lots of possession. It seems ironic that a coach who has always been described as "deep thinking" and "visionary" seems constantly to be unable to recognise and rectify this.


Last edited by jimbopip on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:46 am

That stat to me suggests Scotland are over reliant on their first 15 and arent getting good subs on in the second half. Might be wrong.

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Post by theslosty on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:57 am

I'm with you Fly. Stockdale didn't see much of the ball yesterday but when he did they were all quality involvements.

His season last year in terms if try-scoring was unbelievable yet somehow I wasn't totally convinced. I thought he looked uncertain under the high ball, nervous in defence and strangely I I believed he was too big to beat defenders with his pace or feet and not quite powerful enough to run through them. This time last year I was quite convinced Larmour was the better prospect.

12 months on, I think we've got our best back since O'Driscoll. He scored 7 tries in the 6N last year and the best thing is he's actually improved significantly. I think the aerial game is the last part of the jigsaw for him but that aside he has everything you'd want from a wing. Even at Test level, he always seems to beat at least one defender whether it be with his feet or deceptive upper body strength or a combination of the two. He's been talked about being 'deceptively quick' which I went along with until yesterday where he looked full on rapid for his try. His kicking game off his left foot is very versatile and is clearly a real weapon these days. His assurity in defence has come on massively too. And you're right about that swagger and joy he plays with which just completes the whole package.

He's an absolute gem and deserves to start picking up MOTMs soon. I can only expect he'll be rewarded with a fat central contract soon too.
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Post by BigGee on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:58 am

Unfortunately it is not true

We scored 3 tries in the second half last week!

Good theory though!

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Post by theslosty on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:59 am

Collapse

POM's MOTM award was selected by Jamie Heaslip on the BBC, you know that auld Munster servant
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 12:03 pm

theslosty wrote:I'm with you Fly. Stockdale didn't see much of the ball yesterday but when he did they were all quality involvements.

His season last year in terms if try-scoring was unbelievable yet somehow I wasn't totally convinced. I thought he looked uncertain under the high ball, nervous in defence and strangely I I believed he was too big to beat defenders with his pace or feet and not quite powerful enough to run through them. This time last year I was quite convinced Larmour was the better prospect.

12 months on, I think we've got our best back since O'Driscoll. He scored 7 tries in the 6N last year and the best thing is he's actually improved significantly. I think the aerial game is the last part of the jigsaw for him but that aside he has everything you'd want from a wing. Even at Test level, he always seems to beat at least one defender whether it be with his feet or deceptive upper body strength or a combination of the two. He's been talked about being 'deceptively quick' which I went along with until yesterday where he looked full on rapid for his try. His kicking game off his left foot is very versatile and is clearly a real weapon these days. His assurity in defence has come on massively too. And you're right about that swagger and joy he plays with which just completes the whole package.

He's an absolute gem and deserves to start picking up MOTMs soon. I can only expect he'll be rewarded with a fat central contract soon too.
This is exactly what I was thinking after yesterdays game. Imo yesterday was his best game in green and his form has been way better this season, he's really coming into his own. I'm genuinely excited about seeing him on the field unlike last season strangely enough.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 12:04 pm

Yeah. Ireland's second half was grim watching but a masterclass in the effectiveness of strategic DOUR rugby. Like I said over on the Welsh thread, sometimes the desire for endless frenetic offloading attack shoots itself in the foot. Balance is the key and designed changes of pace. Ireland have too much dour for my personal taste but they do have changes of pace designed into their game plan - and mostly it's proven effective. The non-poetic beauty of what Ireland did to Scotland in the second half was impressive in its own way . You could see the emotion and heart of the Scots just drain away under the punch drunk collision game of the Irish.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 12:08 pm

BigGee wrote:Unfortunately it is not true

We scored 3 tries in the second half last week!

Good theory though!


Two points here Gee; firstly I think it's games we have lost where we haven't scored a try in the second forty minutes ( meal culpa, I should have been clearer), secondly last week was against Italy and even someone as besotted with the Dolce Vita as you has to admit that putting Italy away comfortably is not exactly an arduous task.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 12:19 pm

theslosty wrote:Collapse

POM's MOTM award was selected by Jamie Heaslip on the BBC, you know that auld Munster servant

Its not about where he is from and I dont care who selected him I couldnt see it. Why did Heaslip say he was MOTM? Tell me why you think he should have been MOTM?

Thought Strauss for Scotland was more effective. By the way I thoughr OBrien was weak too.

Pom plays 6 but rarely as a carrier makes it over the gain line. Yes his strengths lie else where but for the second weak in a row we have failed to exert any physical dominance or get much go forward ball and thats in part his job.

His tackle numbers are lower than average for Irelands forwards and only Roux and Best gained less meters than OMahoney who had about 3 times more runs than them. He also gave away a penalty.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 12:38 pm

Ireland doesn't feel like Ireland at all really. Really strange vibe these last few weeks so I guess when I brought up MOTM it wasn't getting at POM or any other player but only looking for positives and observing what I saw. A few players played really well (Kearney for example) but they had to because overall this team doesn't seem to be in a good place preparation- wise. I hope there are no shenanigans going on behind the scenes that has them irked. But anyway, I have the strangest feeling about them now.... they seem weirdly disjointed and lacking confidence - even in that win.
Scotland were expecting a storm after our English misfortunes but even though we got the win it was an uneasy feeling of things still not right.
The bonus I feel might be that we've well and truly had our bad phase with more unity of purpose and effort hitting part 2 of this show in two week's time. We haven't genuinely seen a 'backlash' from Ireland yet and we usually give at least one thunder and lightening performance per 6N so one of France or Wales will hopefully feel the real heat of a real Irish backlash performance.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 12:39 pm

Yeah actually Kearney probably was our best player. Wouldnt have given it to any of our back row.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 12:59 pm

Does any one think that POM will get cited for Hoggs injurie?

It looked to me like he went in with a no arms tackle and then tripped Hogg up as he was going by. Hogg seemed to be holding his head at first, but then got up holding his shoulder.

So accident or dirty play?

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Post by BigGee on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 1:26 pm

jimbopip wrote:
BigGee wrote:Unfortunately it is not true

We scored 3 tries in the second half last week!

Good theory though!


Two points here Gee; firstly I think it's games we have lost where we haven't scored a try in the second forty minutes ( meal culpa, I should have been clearer), secondly last week was against Italy and even someone as besotted with the Dolce Vita as you has to admit that putting Italy away comfortably is not exactly an arduous task.


We have put away a few teams better than Italy comfortably as well recently, Fiji, Argentina and Australia spring to mind, but I take your point that we are not good at chasing a game. As soon as we went two scores down again, I knew that game had gone and unfortunately so did the players on the pitch.

I am not sure why that is, leadership and confidence are a big part of it undoubtedly and our obsession with over complicating things. We seem to lack any real impact off the bench as well, no-one who came on yesterday other than BK really made any difference and some players were clearly tiring. The Irish subs on the other hand did inject some energy into their game.

We know that most of these 6N are games are going to be full on and very tight affairs and we don't seem to be planning for that. If we don't blow them away early on, then we can fade out of the game way to easily.

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Post by theslosty on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 1:27 pm

Collapse I'd have to watch it again to really evaluate O'Mahony's performance. I'm well aware he's not a massive carrier and in the Ireland set up he's not asked to make a load of tackles. What you do get is in my opinion the best lineout backrow operator in the game and one of the toughest lads at the breakdown you'll see. In the biggest matches he usually shines and so over the last 18 months I haven't seen a better pure blindside in international rugby (without having seen much of the lauded PS Du Toit). His hands are pretty decent too which is why he features in the build up of a lot of Schmidt powerplays.

Quite happy to continue a reasoned conversation but from what I've seen you some weird grudge against POM that I don't really want to know about.

P. S. From what I can remember Heaslip just talked up his workrate in particular at the breakdown. Kearney played well but needs reminded how to pass, there was a big opportunity for him to put Stockdale in in the 2nd half which went begging. I'm not sure Ireland had an outstanding performer but it was probably between POM, the back 3 and Carbery.
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Post by 123456789. on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 1:34 pm

I do think part of the problem is the players coming on aren't as strong. When you line the two first fifteens up against each other we're often on par with the teams we play and that's shown in our results. It's when we make the substitutions (or don't make them in fact). Ireland used their entire bench. When they brought on Van Der Flier we brought on Rob Harley, they brought on Ultan Dillane whereas Toonie didn't want to bring on Toolis, even though Gray was having a bit of a howler.  If our players are exhausted or not up to scratch then of course we'll struggle in the Second half.
The England game last year was a cracking example of it, everyone mention how we blew them away. But in the Second half it was more of a backs to the wall defensive job. The difference when we have our full 23 on the pitch is enormous. Think back to the New Zealand game where we, if anything, stepped it up in the Second half. I think injuries are a big part of why we lost yesterday (not that it's an excuse, every team has injuries) but in the world cup we'll ideally have Fagerson coming on to replace Nel, Skinner to replace Gray, Ritchie or Denton coming onto the pitch for a back row. Taylor (if he's ever fit) coming on for Johnson. These things will make a huge impact.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 2:17 pm

theslosty wrote:Collapse I'd have to watch it again to really evaluate O'Mahony's performance. I'm well aware he's not a massive carrier and in the Ireland set up he's not asked to make a load of tackles. What you do get is in my opinion the best lineout backrow operator in the game and one of the toughest lads at the breakdown you'll see. In the biggest matches he usually shines and so over the last 18 months I haven't seen a better pure blindside in international rugby (without having seen much of the lauded PS Du Toit). His hands are pretty decent too which is why he features in the build up of a lot of Schmidt powerplays.

Quite happy to continue a reasoned conversation but from what I've seen you some weird grudge against POM that I don't really want to know about.

P. S. From what I can remember Heaslip just talked up his workrate in particular at the breakdown. Kearney played well but needs reminded how to pass, there was a big opportunity for him to put Stockdale in in the 2nd half which went begging. I'm not sure Ireland had an outstanding performer but it was probably between POM, the back 3 and Carbery.

Ive given you very reasonable reasons why I find it wierd that he got MOTM and sometimes does when its not deserved. If you think thats down to a grudge then thats your opinion but that would be more likely if I hadnt given you rationale for my view which is more than I can say for your initial post.

Pom is good in the lineout but wasnt our best lineout performer yesterday. No steals from him and Ireland got at least 3 steals.

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Post by reallybored on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 2:40 pm

Disappointing and very frustrating match.

Great first half performance but we didn't have the composure to get ahead before half-time. Our defence was aggressive and the attack sharp but we conceded a soft try early which meant we were always chasing the score-board.

Couldn't get going in the 2nd half, up until 60 minutes I was still confident we'd win if we could register the next score.  But we couldn't stay in their half at all, either through our own mistakes or Poite's erratic calls gifting them territory and possession, then we concede another soft score.

Losing Hogg was obviously a blow, especially as there was definitely foul play and rather than getting a penalty, we concede a try while reduced to 14.  Wilson's departure didn't help, maybe some of the haters will appreciate him a bit more now.

Was impressed with Dell, thought he put himself about and thundered into tackles but was at fault for their final try.  The rest of the front-five played well and really set the foundation for the dominate defence in the first half.  Ritchie is class, Strauss looked great in 1st half but seemed to tire in 2nd.

Russell looked a different class in the first half but didn't get enough ball after the break, Johnson had another good game and Kinghorn made a positive impact replacing Hogg.  Jones was quiet again but I'd definitely stick with him.  It is very frustrating that Seymour & Maitland are picked for their experience and in the first 10 minutes do something monumentally stupid.

Despite the loss, I'm a lot less intimidated about having them as the opening game at the RWC, obviously they're missing players but their star players looked ordinary under pressure, and that's two weeks in a row their limited attack has been suppressed by aggressive defence.

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Post by theslosty on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 2:53 pm

Once you've seen one of these Murray Kinsella analsysis articles on Ireland you've seen most of them but Schmidt must love that the continued targeting of Sexton has yielded in a try here.

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-schmidt-stockdale-scotland-4486169-Feb2019/
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 2:57 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
theslosty wrote:Collapse I'd have to watch it again to really evaluate O'Mahony's performance. I'm well aware he's not a massive carrier and in the Ireland set up he's not asked to make a load of tackles. What you do get is in my opinion the best lineout backrow operator in the game and one of the toughest lads at the breakdown you'll see. In the biggest matches he usually shines and so over the last 18 months I haven't seen a better pure blindside in international rugby (without having seen much of the lauded PS Du Toit). His hands are pretty decent too which is why he features in the build up of a lot of Schmidt powerplays.

Quite happy to continue a reasoned conversation but from what I've seen you some weird grudge against POM that I don't really want to know about.

P. S. From what I can remember Heaslip just talked up his workrate in particular at the breakdown. Kearney played well but needs reminded how to pass, there was a big opportunity for him to put Stockdale in in the 2nd half which went begging. I'm not sure Ireland had an outstanding performer but it was probably between POM, the back 3 and Carbery.

Ive given you very reasonable reasons why I find it wierd that he got MOTM and sometimes does when its not deserved. If you think thats down to a grudge then thats your opinion but that would be more likely if I hadnt given you rationale for my view which is more than I can say for your initial post.

Pom is good in the lineout but wasnt our best lineout performer yesterday. No steals from him and Ireland got at least 3 steals.
I don't really care about the MOTM awards but Conan carried more yards and made more tackles than POM and people were saying he had a bad game, we need Stander back etc. I'm not saying POM played bad or anything, he's definitely one of the first names on the team sheet for me, it can be funny how fans view performances.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 2:57 pm

theslosty wrote:Once you've seen one of these Murray Kinsella analsysis articles on Ireland you've seen most of them but Schmidt must love that the continued targeting of Sexton has yielded in a try here.

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-schmidt-stockdale-scotland-4486169-Feb2019/

Yes it was a very satisfying moment in the game yesterday

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 3:01 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
theslosty wrote:Collapse I'd have to watch it again to really evaluate O'Mahony's performance. I'm well aware he's not a massive carrier and in the Ireland set up he's not asked to make a load of tackles. What you do get is in my opinion the best lineout backrow operator in the game and one of the toughest lads at the breakdown you'll see. In the biggest matches he usually shines and so over the last 18 months I haven't seen a better pure blindside in international rugby (without having seen much of the lauded PS Du Toit). His hands are pretty decent too which is why he features in the build up of a lot of Schmidt powerplays.

Quite happy to continue a reasoned conversation but from what I've seen you some weird grudge against POM that I don't really want to know about.

P. S. From what I can remember Heaslip just talked up his workrate in particular at the breakdown. Kearney played well but needs reminded how to pass, there was a big opportunity for him to put Stockdale in in the 2nd half which went begging. I'm not sure Ireland had an outstanding performer but it was probably between POM, the back 3 and Carbery.

Ive given you very reasonable reasons why I find it wierd that he got MOTM and sometimes does when its not deserved. If you think thats down to a grudge then thats your opinion but that would be more likely if I hadnt given you rationale for my view which is more than I can say for your initial post.

Pom is good in the lineout but wasnt our best lineout performer yesterday. No steals from him and Ireland got at least 3 steals.
I don't really care about the MOTM awards but Conan carried more yards and made more tackles than POM and people were saying he had a bad game, we need Stander back etc. I'm not saying POM played bad or anything, he's definitely one of the first names on the team sheet for me, it can be funny how fans view performances.

Yes I agree re conan didnt think he had a great game either but he did make double the tackles Pom did and twice the yards. I wouldnt given the award to any of our backriw forwards.

Pom gave a good pass in Stockdales try and two steals at the breakdown but literally stood out no where else IMO.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 3:28 pm

Mom in my opinion was Jamie Ritchie, but I understand why you don't give it to someone on the losing team.

I don't think PoM particularly stood out on the Irish side.

Carberry was good once he settled down and Stockdale was as good as anyone on the Irish side. I guess a lot of the stuff PoM does goes unseen

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Post by RDW on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 4:02 pm

Huge tackling stats from Scotland

Mark Palmer:

The updated official match stats now show Josh Strauss making 29 tackles yesterday, a new Scottish record for a single 6N match. Gilchrist made 28, Dell and Gray 25, Ritchie 23.

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