6 Nations - England v France

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

Details:

Date: Sunday 10th February 2019
Time: 15:00 GMT
Location: Twickenham Stadium
Media Coverage: ITV, BBC (highlights only), Radio 5Live


Officials

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)



Teams


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 26 caps), 14 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 43 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps), 12 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 41 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 66 caps) (c), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 81 caps), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 52 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 33 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 18 caps), 4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 69 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 28 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 9 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 6 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 37 caps).

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), 18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 82 caps), 19 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 54 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 19 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps), 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 30 caps).





France

15. Yoann Huget
14. Damian Penaud
13. Mathieu Bastareaud
12. Geoffrey Doumayrou
11. Gaël Fickou
10. Camille Lopez
9. Morgan Parra
1. Jefferson Poirot
2. Guilhem Guirado
3. Demba Bamba
4. Sébastien Vahaamahina
5. Félix Lambey
6. Yacouba Camara
7. Arthur Iturria
8. Louis Picamoles

Replacements
16. Pierre Bourgarit
17. Dany Priso
18. Dorian Aldegheri
19. Paul Willemse
20. Gregory Alldritt
21. Antoine Dupont
22. Romain Ntamack
23. Thomas Ramos


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:18 am

Perhaps a bit more of a free for all at the breakdown with Owens there. Will be interesting to see if we're as secure as we were vs Ireland. Would be a Huge step forward to get consistency in that area.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:34 am

Same team for me bar Itoje replaced by Lawes.

I said to one of my pals...beating Ireland was wonderful...but they have to back that up now with consistency if they are to be considered a genuine possibility for the WC.

We have to play to that level over the entire 6n.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:39 am

The breakdown of the next 2 games are really interesting. The Frenchman massive carriers will we have a s much luck turning them over on potentially the back foot. The Welsh back row at least are more potent than the Irish at turning over ball so can we protect it as well? Massive tests.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:59 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Perhaps a bit more of a free for all at the breakdown with Owens there. Will be interesting to see if we're as secure as we were vs Ireland. Would be a Huge step forward to get consistency in that area.

Owens was ref for England vs France in 2015 and 2016, when we won 55-35 in that bonkers game and 21-31 in Paris to secure the Grand Slam. You'd hope England would be able to adapt him and overcome France, otherwise it will be some comedown after the highs of last weekend.

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Post by BamBam on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The breakdown of the next 2 games are really interesting. The Frenchman massive carriers will we have a s much luck turning them over on potentially the back foot. The Welsh back row at least are more potent than the Irish at turning over ball so can we protect it as well?  Massive tests.

I was quite unimpressed with the French carrying game against Wales. Their most effective carrier seemed to be the lanky ginger kid who was about 2/3 of the size of Willemse who he replaced with 20 mins to go. Similarly to Ireland against Scotland, can only imagine France will come out fired up after a painful defeat

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Post by munkian on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:10 pm

BamBam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:The breakdown of the next 2 games are really interesting. The Frenchman massive carriers will we have a s much luck turning them over on potentially the back foot. The Welsh back row at least are more potent than the Irish at turning over ball so can we protect it as well?  Massive tests.

I was quite unimpressed with the French carrying game against Wales. Their most effective carrier seemed to be the lanky ginger kid who was about 2/3 of the size of Willemse who he replaced with 20 mins to go. Similarly to Ireland against Scotland, can only imagine France will come out fired up after a painful defeat

True - their 24 stone player carried approximately fupp all the whole game.
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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:32 pm

Do we expect a recall for Basteraud?

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Post by dummy_half on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:37 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Do we expect a recall for Basteraud?

Am I allowed to say 'yes please'? OK, he can occasionally be brilliant, but I've seen far more games where he looks like a prop playing in the back line.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:39 pm

I just wonder if Brunel will look to beef up his back line to directly counter the power game.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:40 pm

I keep hearing about Frances massive pack...but wasn't England only 10kg or so lighter?

And the key point is that Frances pack looked seriously Fat and unfit.

A very different challenge to the Ireland side, but im sure Mr Mitchell will have a plan for them.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:42 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Do we expect a recall for Basteraud?

Personally I expect to see him start. Maybe Brunel won't, but it would be quite "modern France" to do so.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:44 pm

dummy_half wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Do we expect a recall for Basteraud?

Am I allowed to say 'yes please'? OK, he can occasionally be brilliant, but I've seen far more games where he looks like a prop playing in the back line.

It is a few years ago that they last lined up against each other, but Tuilagi vs FB was funny. It felt like Tuilagi was just taking the urine the whole time.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:46 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:I keep hearing about Frances massive pack...but wasn't England only 10kg or so lighter?

And the key point is that Frances pack looked seriously Fat and unfit.

A very different challenge to the Ireland side, but im sure Mr Mitchell will have a plan for them.

Using official weights France had a massive tight 5, but lightweight flankers. Our back row was apparently 26 kg heavier (using the stats on the Official 6 Nations site)

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:47 pm

And that's just Billy.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:48 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:I keep hearing about Frances massive pack...but wasn't England only 10kg or so lighter?

And the key point is that Frances pack looked seriously Fat and unfit.

A very different challenge to the Ireland side, but im sure Mr Mitchell will have a plan for them.

I don't think we ended up too much lighter, no, and yes our guys look as big and fitter. Someone like Mako Vunipola goes deep into games and gets through shed loads of work. Sinckler too, ran out of steam before the end of the game, but was more explosive and got through for work than Antonio. Itoje, Kruis and Vunipola are all heavy lads too. Although the locks both came off (Kruis tactically, Itoje injured), I think both could have carried on. Billy did play the full 80 but I think faded a bit towards the end of the game (understandable as its his first test 80 in about 2 years).

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:49 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And that's just Billy.
12kg Billy v Picamoles
14kg Curry v Lauret

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Post by El Radar on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:52 pm

No way is Lauret 92kg.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 1:07 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:And that's just Billy.
12kg Billy v Picamoles
14kg Curry v Lauret

Yes I thought Curry looked like he had put some bulk on. Hard to believe the lad is only 20. If he continues to progress he's going to be some player.

Aside from the yello card, which was a little hash, hes an intelligent player.

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Post by Poorfour on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 2:54 pm

OK. Here's a prediction.

I've been saying for some time that I think Eddie is preparing for a gruelling RWC schedule where we have to win 5 games in 5 weeks against Tier 1 teams if we want to win the thing. In order to do that, I think he needs to be confident that all 31 players in the squad are capable of starting a test, and that the squad won't be put off by injury to any player, however important.

Eddie wants to build momentum through the 6 Nations, so I don't think he will chop and change for no reason.

So my prediction is this: England will not risk players who have slight injuries. We got a hint of this in the buildup - first with not bringing in players who are just coming back from injury, then with Clifford, and I suspect also with the likes of Shields and Launchbury.

If someone has a slight knock but could play, my guess is that we will see them rested and given a chance to recover unless the preferred alternate is more seriously injured.

I would also make a less confident bet that the training regime in the break weeks will be pretty brutal and will aim to simulate game conditions - ironically meaning that we might expect more injuries out of it.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 3:43 pm

El Radar wrote:No way is Lauret 92kg.

I agree- not a chance. Lauret is a unit

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 3:50 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
El Radar wrote:No way is Lauret 92kg.

I agree- not a chance. Lauret is a unit

There is no consistent agreement on his weight online. All I know is that the reported numbers such as total pack weight reported on TV during matches are based on the official number, which would be 92kg.

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Post by El Radar on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 3:53 pm

They're wrong either way, that would make him lighter than Nowell and Daly and in the same range as Ben Youngs.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 3:57 pm

Oh I am happy to accept it is wrong, just needs to be considered when the TV says France are x kg heavier etc.

As it is Antonio, who is massive, was ineffective and replaced on about 43 minutes. We should be able to tire their biggest forwards out and capitalise in the final quarter.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 4:14 pm

I have yet to see anything official about Itoje - anyone seen anything?

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Post by dummy_half on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 4:16 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I have yet to see anything official about Itoje - anyone seen anything?
Another thread says out for 8 weeks.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 4:22 pm

dummy_half wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I have yet to see anything official about Itoje - anyone seen anything?
Another thread says out for 8 weeks.
Yeah, saw it on the thread, and just now on RugbyPass but not anywhere else - yet.

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Post by NonReturnableBottle2 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 4:49 pm

Ultimate Rugby says Maro out until the Scotland game if he's lucky. 8 weeks is apparently worst case. However, with back up from Jo Launchbury, and lookin gto the autumn, I hope they give him the time needed to get right!!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 6:06 pm

France’s big men go up in pods very successfully, making it difficult for the opposition to get the turnover. On the other hand you could just keep tackling them and wait until they knock-on. I think England look well equipped to deal with the big French runners.

It has to be a recall for Bast, the light French midfield was particularly ineffective.

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 6:53 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:France’s big men go up in pods very successfully, making it difficult for the opposition to get the turnover. On the other hand you could just keep tackling them and wait until they knock-on. I think England look well equipped to deal with the big French runners.

It has to be a recall for Bast, the light French midfield was particularly ineffective.
or move Penaud infield. He has looked very strong and very useful all season

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 7:04 pm

As has previously been said, we are going to have to rotate in the RWC, so lets get used to it now. Lawes and Launchbury the locks, one of Genge or Williams starting, backrow unchanged due to Underhill's injury. Robson to start with Farrell at 10, Cockanasiga to start with Nowell at 15, Daly on the bench, Ashton drops out.

Nothing to do with how any of them played on Saturday, just a chance to refresh and see how they start, can soon be fixed if not working as only one change from the 23 of last Saturday.a

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Post by Yoda on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 7:57 pm

Part of me thinks its a good plan to fully use squad but the other half thinks we should put a marker down and keep combos playing as much as possible. It's a tough one. Think the bench will change to encompass fast rapier players to really hurt the French in the second half. Clifford and Ash the splash off the bench with tiring legs could really push them.

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:01 pm

I wouldn’t take the French too lightly. A warm sunny afternoon at Twickenham and they could cause England a lot of issues.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:13 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:As has previously been said, we are going to have to rotate in the RWC, so lets get used to it now. Lawes and Launchbury the locks, one of Genge or Williams starting, backrow unchanged due to Underhill's injury. Robson to start with Farrell at 10, Cockanasiga to start with Nowell at 15, Daly on the bench, Ashton drops out.

Nothing to do with how any of them played on Saturday, just a chance to refresh and see how they start, can soon be fixed if not working as only one change from the 23 of last Saturday.a

Too much for me. These are our only two tough back to back tests. How we back up from one to the next will be key. I'd go with largely the same team but possibly use the bench a bit earlier - hopefully the game is a little more comfortable and allows us to do that. Give Genge, Cowan-Dickie and Robson 20/25 minutes. Give a change midfield with Ford/Farrell a bit of a run out as well, or even just Ford with the same centres.

Like I say, I'd go strongest team against France and I'd go for the strongest team again for the Wales game. After that, I'd be more prepared to make some changes for the Italy game and, if the players come through well then keep them in for the Scotland game to give Genge, Robson etc a proper test start before the World Cup.

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:41 pm

Who played 10 for them against Wales and was he any good?

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:44 pm

robbo277 wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:As has previously been said, we are going to have to rotate in the RWC, so lets get used to it now. Lawes and Launchbury the locks, one of Genge or Williams starting, backrow unchanged due to Underhill's injury. Robson to start with Farrell at 10, Cockanasiga to start with Nowell at 15, Daly on the bench, Ashton drops out.

Nothing to do with how any of them played on Saturday, just a chance to refresh and see how they start, can soon be fixed if not working as only one change from the 23 of last Saturday.a

Too much for me. These are our only two tough back to back tests. How we back up from one to the next will be key. I'd go with largely the same team but possibly use the bench a bit earlier - hopefully the game is a little more comfortable and allows us to do that. Give Genge, Cowan-Dickie and Robson 20/25 minutes. Give a change midfield with Ford/Farrell a bit of a run out as well, or even just Ford with the same centres.

Like I say, I'd go strongest team against France and I'd go for the strongest team again for the Wales game. After that, I'd be more prepared to make some changes for the Italy game and, if the players come through well then keep them in for the Scotland game to give Genge, Robson etc a proper test start before the World Cup.

I agree with this. Let's build some momentum first then look at rotating players.

Only changes I can see are Lawes to start (i'd have Launchbury and Lawes off the bench for impact) and Te'o in for Manu if he's fit.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:56 pm

yappysnap wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:As has previously been said, we are going to have to rotate in the RWC, so lets get used to it now. Lawes and Launchbury the locks, one of Genge or Williams starting, backrow unchanged due to Underhill's injury. Robson to start with Farrell at 10, Cockanasiga to start with Nowell at 15, Daly on the bench, Ashton drops out.

Nothing to do with how any of them played on Saturday, just a chance to refresh and see how they start, can soon be fixed if not working as only one change from the 23 of last Saturday.a

Too much for me. These are our only two tough back to back tests. How we back up from one to the next will be key. I'd go with largely the same team but possibly use the bench a bit earlier - hopefully the game is a little more comfortable and allows us to do that. Give Genge, Cowan-Dickie and Robson 20/25 minutes. Give a change midfield with Ford/Farrell a bit of a run out as well, or even just Ford with the same centres.

Like I say, I'd go strongest team against France and I'd go for the strongest team again for the Wales game. After that, I'd be more prepared to make some changes for the Italy game and, if the players come through well then keep them in for the Scotland game to give Genge, Robson etc a proper test start before the World Cup.

I agree with this. Let's build some momentum first then look at rotating players.

Only changes I can see are Lawes to start (i'd have Launchbury and Lawes off the bench for impact) and Te'o in for Manu if he's fit.

Can you really see Te'o coming back in for Manu? Manu was probably 7 or 8 out of 10 against Ireland and still showed more than Te'o ever has in an England shirt. To be fair to Ben, a lot of his caps have come as a "finisher" and he's looked handy, but he hasn't really been able to show it from the start. Tuilagi was making yards from his first carry and didn't stop all day.

In answer to your other question, Lopez was at 10 for France.


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Post by lostinwales on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:58 pm

I think Te'o has been decent to good in his performances, but Manu looked much better.

I also think that that was our best performing center combo for some considerable length of time, and that it could do with more time to develop further. That Slade looked so good is partly down to the attention that Manu demands.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 9:02 pm

yappysnap wrote:Who played 10 for them against Wales and was he any good?

Lopez. Controlled the game well in first half, disappeared in second.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 9:52 am

Eddie will surely go with pretty much the same side (bar Itoje). I agree if things are going to plan we could empty the bench a bit earlier, but we don't want to change too much....lets see if these lads can reproduce.

On the game, I would expect a normal close game, with us grabbing a score or two on 70+ to make it a 10-15pt win.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 9:56 am

Very worried about this game, the french in the 1st half v Wales were moving the ball really well. If they reproduce that that and don't fall apart this week in training (in fighting, temper tantrums) they could be very dangerous.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 10:08 am

I think Teo might be the better pick if Basteraud plays. Theres been a lot of talk about Englands approach to unlocking defences with tactical kicks, and thats something he has in his game that Tuillagi doesn't. Basteraud would make France more vulnerable to kicks designed to turn the high defensive line.

Otherwise it would be a big surprise to see any fundamental changes to the way England play and the line up. France should be better prepared for Englands tactics than Ireland were, but I dont think they have the players or desire to do much more about it than Ireland did.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 10:09 am

I can see the temptation in thinking Genge, Robson etc would benefit from game time but I fully agree with you Sgt. It's important lot get a win. It's almost equally important to get it by playing well. We need to show that consistency and set a marker to go to Wales as despite 6 wins from the last 7 should always be a hard game. 1 game at a time with full focus and get that momentum.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 10:55 am

Gooseberry wrote:I think Teo might be the better pick if Basteraud plays. Theres been a lot of talk about Englands approach to unlocking defences with tactical kicks, and thats something he has in his game that Tuillagi doesn't. Basteraud would make France more vulnerable to kicks designed to turn the high defensive line.

Otherwise it would be a big surprise to see any fundamental changes to the way England play and the line up. France should be better prepared for Englands tactics than Ireland were, but I dont think they have the players or desire to do much more about it than Ireland did.


I am trying to find the game when Manu played against Basteraud. It wasn't a 6N game that I can find. But I can remember Manu having fun running around the fat prop. Slade can take care of that kind of tactical kicking anyway.

I want to see more of this center partnership. I want to see if it can live up to the standards of last Saturday, because it may be the best we have had for a long time.

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6 Nations - England v France Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:07 am

2013 6Ns. Manu scored and Basteraud was pulled off.

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6 Nations - England v France Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:10 am

So good and bad for Basteraud then.

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6 Nations - England v France Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:12 am

lostinwales wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:I think Teo might be the better pick if Basteraud plays. Theres been a lot of talk about Englands approach to unlocking defences with tactical kicks, and thats something he has in his game that Tuillagi doesn't. Basteraud would make France more vulnerable to kicks designed to turn the high defensive line.

Otherwise it would be a big surprise to see any fundamental changes to the way England play and the line up. France should be better prepared for Englands tactics than Ireland were, but I dont think they have the players or desire to do much more about it than Ireland did.


I am trying to find the game when Manu played against Basteraud. It wasn't a 6N game that I can find. But I can remember Manu having fun running around the fat prop. Slade can take care of that kind of tactical kicking anyway.

I want to see more of this center partnership. I want to see if it can live up to the standards of last Saturday, because it may be the best we have had for a long time.

A bit mean. Bastereau is a significantly better player these days. For a big guy he is pretty agile and does have good hands. One of France's better players lately IMO.

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6 Nations - England v France Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

As an Ireland fan Ill have my fingers crossed for an extremely rare France win.

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6 Nations - England v France Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

Manu reached around him to score?

Tuillagi of 5 years ago was a special player, hes not got the same explosive pace now and at 12 less inclined/instructed to run around rather than into players. But yeah I do think theres a strong case for England continuing with whats working, and not a great deal to choose between the two.

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6 Nations - England v France Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:16 am

lostinwales wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:I think Teo might be the better pick if Basteraud plays. Theres been a lot of talk about Englands approach to unlocking defences with tactical kicks, and thats something he has in his game that Tuillagi doesn't. Basteraud would make France more vulnerable to kicks designed to turn the high defensive line.

Otherwise it would be a big surprise to see any fundamental changes to the way England play and the line up. France should be better prepared for Englands tactics than Ireland were, but I dont think they have the players or desire to do much more about it than Ireland did.


I am trying to find the game when Manu played against Basteraud. It wasn't a 6N game that I can find. But I can remember Manu having fun running around the fat prop. Slade can take care of that kind of tactical kicking anyway.

I want to see more of this center partnership. I want to see if it can live up to the standards of last Saturday, because it may be the best we have had for a long time.

Agree with this. We've seen Farrell put in attacking kicks leading to tries before, we've seen May and Daly kick leading to trys against Ireland and we know Slade can put these kicks in. We don't need absolutely everyone kicking, especially if it means we lose a bit elsewhere.

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