6 Nations - England v France

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

First topic message reminder :

Details:

Date: Sunday 10th February 2019
Time: 15:00 GMT
Location: Twickenham Stadium
Media Coverage: ITV, BBC (highlights only), Radio 5Live


Officials

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)



Teams


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 26 caps), 14 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 43 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps), 12 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 41 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 66 caps) (c), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 81 caps), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 52 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 33 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 18 caps), 4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 69 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 28 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 9 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 6 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 37 caps).

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), 18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 82 caps), 19 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 54 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 19 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps), 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 30 caps).





France

15. Yoann Huget
14. Damian Penaud
13. Mathieu Bastareaud
12. Geoffrey Doumayrou
11. Gaël Fickou
10. Camille Lopez
9. Morgan Parra
1. Jefferson Poirot
2. Guilhem Guirado
3. Demba Bamba
4. Sébastien Vahaamahina
5. Félix Lambey
6. Yacouba Camara
7. Arthur Iturria
8. Louis Picamoles

Replacements
16. Pierre Bourgarit
17. Dany Priso
18. Dorian Aldegheri
19. Paul Willemse
20. Gregory Alldritt
21. Antoine Dupont
22. Romain Ntamack
23. Thomas Ramos


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:39 am; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 4:57 pm

Maybe, Stander fracturing his face didn't help either.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 5:46 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Itoje out for '2-4 weeks' so misses next two games

Isekwe has been brought into the squad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47130799


Squad added to the OP. 

Interesting to see that Isiekwe rather than Ewels has replaced Itoje. Trying to see if there is any other difference to the last squad

Lawes to my fantasy team then?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 5:56 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

He also played sh1t. Not physical enough for a six. That game would have been perfect for Ferris.

I’ve noticed POM go missing in a few big games actually. What’s happened to him?

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 6:14 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Itoje out for '2-4 weeks' so misses next two games

Isekwe has been brought into the squad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47130799


Squad added to the OP. 

Interesting to see that Isiekwe rather than Ewels has replaced Itoje. Trying to see if there is any other difference to the last squad

Lawes to my fantasy team then?
If you want an Englishman there makes sense.

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Post by yappysnap on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 6:17 pm

eirebilly wrote:
El Radar wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Bit of retribution for May being blocked all game.

Not referring to the block. Just in general he is becoming more cynical. Such a good player but really needs to tighten up.

Hes a young lock! He needs to be cynical, he needs to be dirty and we expect at times he'll be caught. As he gets older he'll temper this. He's just learning his game, what he can and cant do without the ball and what effect it has.

No different from Shaw, Johnson, AWJ, O'Connell etc etc etc but because hes young we all get over wraught about it.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 6:26 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

He also played sh1t. Not physical enough for a six. That game would have been perfect for Ferris.

I’ve noticed POM go missing in a few big games actually. What’s happened to him?

He is a great player and punches above his weight physically at times but IMO he isnt a great pick for the really physical games like the first Lions test or England last Saturday. My wind burned cousins from the south will probably disagree but thats my take on it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 6:28 pm

He was very physical when he first arrived on the scene a while back and was often Munster’s best player, and he’s not exactly small. Confusing.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 6:34 pm

He has never really been Irelands go to guy for getting over the gain line. He is great in the lineout though and at the breakdown at times.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 5:32 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

He also played sh1t. Not physical enough for a six. That game would have been perfect for Ferris.
Ahhh now there was a 6!!

What a player Ferris was, absolute animal (which possibly shortened his career the way he played). Although not at the same level, I do think our very own Mark Wilson is in a similar mold.

I was listening to one of the podcasts yesterday and there was a great story about Wilson from one of the players at the weekend. Apparently there was a break in play and they were all blowing/could hardly speak they were so fatigued. Wilson jogs over, sounding totally fine and comments "this is effing brilliant isn't it" (or words to that effect).

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Post by yappysnap on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 6:49 am

Obviously shirking his tackles then Wink


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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:04 am

yappysnap wrote:Obviously shirking his tackles then Wink


Haha....all 27 of them!

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Post by yappysnap on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:53 am

Only 27! Ive seen Robshaw do more in half the time...

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:54 am

yappysnap wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
El Radar wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Bit of retribution for May being blocked all game.

Not referring to the block. Just in general he is becoming more cynical. Such a good player but really needs to tighten up.

Hes a young lock! He needs to be cynical, he needs to be dirty and we expect at times he'll be caught. As he gets older he'll temper this. He's just learning his game, what he can and cant do without the ball and what effect it has.

No different from Shaw, Johnson, AWJ, O'Connell etc etc etc but because hes young we all get over wraught about it.

Yes he is still young but he has been around long enough to be a more mature International. Maybe I just have a high regard for him and expect a little more from him.
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Post by yappysnap on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:15 am

Why?

Why do you expect better of him when there are 29 other players on the pitch all trying to cheat as much as they can? Blocking, late hits, not rolling away, punches, elbows, dodgy clear outs and tackles. Why is only one player held to account and measured to a different yard stick? Why should he be as clean as possible?

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:21 am

Look I am not the only one (even England fans have stated the same) that has seen his lack of maturity at times.

If you think it is not an issue or a concern going forward Yappy then grand so thumbsup
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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:53 am

eirebilly wrote:...As for Itoje, I have noticed over the last season or 2 that he is more inclined to wind up the opposition than focus on his own game....
Sorry, just noticed this. To hear his Saracens team mates talk, Itoje has always been like that. He hasn't got any worse, it's just that we somehow didn't really notice it at the beginning of his career. I'm not a fan either, but I suspect some of the wider distaste comes from the perception that he's a nice boy turned bad. It sounds like he's been a wind-up merchant from the start.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:02 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
eirebilly wrote:...As for Itoje, I have noticed over the last season or 2 that he is more inclined to wind up the opposition than focus on his own game....
Sorry, just noticed this. To hear his Saracens team mates talk, Itoje has always been like that. He hasn't got any worse, it's just that we somehow didn't really notice it at the beginning of his career. I'm not a fan either, but I suspect some of the wider distaste comes from the perception that he's a nice boy turned bad. It sounds like he's been a wind-up merchant from the start.

That's part of my point RF, he has not matured as much as I had expected him too. He is an undoubtedly good player but his antics are very childish, wind the opposition up as much as you want when the ball is dead but while it is in play, focus is required and he does not seem to possess that focus.

His late and sometimes cheap shots will eventually be focused on more and more and England will suffer for it. Whilst he is still relatively young, I think someone should pull him aside, put some manners on him and get him to tighten up.
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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:44 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

He also played sh1t. Not physical enough for a six. That game would have been perfect for Ferris.
Ahhh now there was a 6!!

What a player Ferris was, absolute animal (which possibly shortened his career the way he played). Although not at the same level, I do think our very own Mark Wilson is in a similar mold.

I was listening to one of the podcasts yesterday and there was a great story about Wilson from one of the players at the weekend. Apparently there was a break in play and they were all blowing/could hardly speak they were so fatigued. Wilson jogs over, sounding totally fine and comments "this is effing brilliant isn't it" (or words to that effect).

I heard this on a podcast too and absolutely loved it. Brilliant character and great player.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:30 am

Best lock on the pitch though.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:44 am

It is amusing seeing opposition fans so riled by Itoje's personality on the rugby field, and wanting to see him put "under manners" or "taken aside and given a talking to"

Can't think what it is about him that attracts so much attention, maybe the opposition players should think about trying to best him on the field, maybe he'd be less vocal in that scenario? Few have managed it though

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Post by No9 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:45 am

Cant see France winning this one, which is a pity for the competition, as if they loose 2 on the bounce, they'll not bother turning up for the other games. Just the French mentality.. c'est merde Erm

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:47 am

I can see france challenging us. They're not as good but you always face a challenge coming off the back of a game with so much intensity. After the Lord mayor's show kinda vibe.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:21 pm

BamBam wrote:It is amusing seeing opposition fans so riled by Itoje's personality on the rugby field, and wanting to see him put "under manners" or "taken aside and given a talking to"

Can't think what it is about him that attracts so much attention, maybe the opposition players should think about trying to best him on the field, maybe he'd be less vocal in that scenario? Few have managed it though

Good thing is they can go back to moaning about Lawes being a thug for a couple of weeks.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:26 pm

BamBam wrote:It is amusing seeing opposition fans so riled by Itoje's personality on the rugby field, and wanting to see him put "under manners" or "taken aside and given a talking to"

Can't think what it is about him that attracts so much attention, maybe the opposition players should think about trying to best him on the field, maybe he'd be less vocal in that scenario? Few have managed it though

I may an Irish fan but I am also very much a rugby fan and I just don't like that sort of thing, especially from a player who I think could be absolutely outstanding if aspects like that were removed from his game. Sorry if that offends you in any way.

A few English fans on here have also seen this in Itoje so it is not just opposition fans.
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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:28 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I can see france challenging us. They're not as good but you always face  a challenge coming off the back of a game with so much intensity. After the Lord mayor's show kinda vibe.

I cant see France challenging England myself, maybe they will keep it tight for the first 20 but England are just at another level in fitness, game plan and quality for me. England by 3 scores.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:35 pm

I may get more optimistic as the week goes on but it's a big test for the coaches and the leadership.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:38 pm

I'm not offended Billy I just don't get why people have such a problem with Itoje. The England rugby team has had its fare share of utter w4nkers, I don't remember people calling for Ashton to be put under manners, it's just a very particular phrase which is being used on Itoje alone

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I may get more optimistic as the week goes on but it's a big test for the coaches and the leadership.

You have me worried now. You were optimistic about last week whereas I was not. This week I am nervously optimistic but you are not.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:39 pm

England's organisation is simply far too superior for France.


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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:39 pm

BamBam wrote:I'm not offended Billy I just don't get why people have such a problem with Itoje. The England rugby team has had its fare share of utter w4nkers, I don't remember people calling for Ashton to be put under manners, it's just a very particular phrase which is being used on Itoje alone


Oh there were plenty of people who wanted plenty of things to happen to the Splash. The Brand is another who has alienated people.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:39 pm

eirebilly wrote:I am also very much a rugby fan and I just don't like that sort of thing, especially from a player who I think could be absolutely outstanding if aspects like that were removed from his game.
I don't like it either but I'm not sure why Itoje gets singled out for moral lectures when wind-up merchants like Ali Williams and George Gregan never did. If Itoje is supposed to mature, then why isn't that also demanded of an international player like Ryan Wilson, who is five years older? Or a veteran like Alun-Wyn Jones, who could be seen clapping and cheering at a French mistake during the match on Friday?

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:44 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I am also very much a rugby fan and I just don't like that sort of thing, especially from a player who I think could be absolutely outstanding if aspects like that were removed from his game.
I don't like it either but I'm not sure why Itoje gets singled out for moral lectures when wind-up merchants like Ali Williams and George Gregan never did. If Itoje is supposed to mature, then why isn't that also demanded of an international player like Ryan Wilson, who is five years older? Or a veteran like Alun-Wyn Jones, who could be seen clapping and cheering at a French mistake during the match on Friday?

I just mentioned Itoje on this thread but yes, there have been many in the past that I have felt the same about. I guess it can be seen as singling him out if you want to but I have also mentioned other players, from other countries (including Irish players) on other threads who I feel the same about.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:47 pm

What's worse clapping a good defence or asking the ref for yellow cards to be dished out?

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Post by Exiledinborders on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:49 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I am also very much a rugby fan and I just don't like that sort of thing, especially from a player who I think could be absolutely outstanding if aspects like that were removed from his game.
I don't like it either but I'm not sure why Itoje gets singled out for moral lectures when wind-up merchants like Ali Williams and George Gregan never did. If Itoje is supposed to mature, then why isn't that also demanded of an international player like Ryan Wilson, who is five years older? Or a veteran like Alun-Wyn Jones, who could be seen clapping and cheering at a French mistake during the match on Friday?
Peter O’Mahony did not show much class at the weekend either.

By the way I agree Itoje can be an utter prat.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:50 pm

Asking a ref to have opposition players carded, that's soccer crud that should be stamped out fully from rugby once and for all.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:52 pm

I've not heard a whisper of a complain though. If you ignore me bringing it up as I think it's more playing the ref!

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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:03 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I am also very much a rugby fan and I just don't like that sort of thing, especially from a player who I think could be absolutely outstanding if aspects like that were removed from his game.
I don't like it either but I'm not sure why Itoje gets singled out for moral lectures when wind-up merchants like Ali Williams and George Gregan never did. If Itoje is supposed to mature, then why isn't that also demanded of an international player like Ryan Wilson, who is five years older? Or a veteran like Alun-Wyn Jones, who could be seen clapping and cheering at a French mistake during the match on Friday?

Totally agree with this. Every team does it and i'm pretty sure every player has done it at some point in their career! Maro seems to have been singled out lately for some unknown reason. Yes he claps a lot and gets in people's faces, but what about Stockdale pushing Ford at the end of the game even though he was already in touch? What about POM's abuse towards Sinkler? (i'm only referencing Irish players because of the game at the weekend) It's part and parcel of the game. I think Maro's singled out because he's loud, noticeable, and has presence.

His celebrating with the Glasgow team when their try was disallowed? I for one thought it was hilarious and I'm pretty sure I would if it were any player doing it. I liken it to when Jamie Cudmore joined the French huddle prior to a line out. How often do you see a defending player roughed up by opposition team players coming in to celebrate a try? There's always a sly shoulder, shove, or push.

It's hardly as if he's going around gouging or stamping on people.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:16 pm

I think people are missing the point slightly regarding Itoje's celebrations, I thought I had explained it better than I obviously had.

I have no objection with yelling and screaming after a very good defensive play or good attacking play. As long as the play is finished and the whistle blown. Itoje seems too intent on winding up the opposition before the play has been concluded, that's where I feel he lacks focus and maturity. I did give an example of a few games back when after a good piece of defensive work, the opposition team lost the ball. All Itoje had to do was pick it up and he would have walked over the line untouched (as advantage for the knock on was being played) but he did not, he yelled and screamed at the opposition players and distracted his own team mates from doing the same. Now I cant remember if a try was scored in the following play or not.



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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:17 pm

Dependant on the team LT I think we'll still win but just feel it's going to be one of the hard slog type of games. I may cheer up.
Not Jones that I know of Bam.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:11 pm

eirebilly wrote:I think people are missing the point slightly regarding Itoje's celebrations, I thought I had explained it better than I obviously had.

I have no objection with yelling and screaming after a very good defensive play or good attacking play. As long as the play is finished and the whistle blown. Itoje seems too intent on winding up the opposition before the play has been concluded, that's where I feel he lacks focus and maturity. I did give an example of a few games back when after a good piece of defensive work, the opposition team lost the ball. All Itoje had to do was pick it up and he would have walked over the line untouched (as advantage for the knock on was being played) but he did not, he yelled and screamed at the opposition players and distracted his own team mates from doing the same. Now I cant remember if a try was scored in the following play or not.


He comes across as a bit of a biatch. There I said it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:26 pm

They thought the captain I wasalluding to was Jones, LD. Pretty simple.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:32 pm

No, it was in reference to Rugby Fan's observation of Jones clapping after someone on the French side had made a mistake.

In his defence, he was probably just thankful for someone taking the attention off his usual incompetence

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:36 pm

Almost 3 pages so far, and very little has been about the upcoming match. Just the way threads go.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:42 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Almost 3 pages so far, and very little has been about the upcoming match. Just the way threads go.

Not much to say really. France are a basket case, always have been. If you have any doubts read this article:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/murder-gouging-russian-roulette-remarkable-10928737

Who knows what will happen (other than England to win).

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:51 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Almost 3 pages so far, and very little has been about the upcoming match. Just the way threads go.

Not much to say really. France are a basket case, always have been. If you have any doubts read this article:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/murder-gouging-russian-roulette-remarkable-10928737

Who knows what will happen (other than England to win).

They were in such disarray in the second half against Wales the captain didn’t even realise he ways captain!
It really does beggar belief in professional sport.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:56 pm

Haha yeah I know. I thought that was really funny.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 3:22 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Almost 3 pages so far, and very little has been about the upcoming match. Just the way threads go.

It probably won't really pick up until Friday, there's not much squad debate to happen before then, but we'll get a team announcement on Friday at least.

Eddie will send a load of people home soon. 25 man squads isn't it at this stage? It will give us an idea of where his head's at. 22 who played against Ireland + Launchbury, Shields the extra forward, Te'o/Cokanasiga the extra back I reckon.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 3:26 pm

I thought that Joseph returned to playing recently, is it still too early for him to be called into the squad? Think he is a brilliant player.
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Post by robbo277 on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 3:31 pm

eirebilly wrote:I thought that Joseph returned to playing recently, is it still too early for him to be called into the squad? Think he is a brilliant player.

He got called up to the pre-tournament training squad in Portugal, released last week before the game and then wasn't called back to training this week. Not sure if he played for Bath last week or not, but maybe Jones decided there was no way he was replacing Slade this week and would rather give Joseph a full couple of weeks with Bath before bringing him back to the training squad for the Wales game?

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 06 Feb 2019, 3:32 pm

Ahh ok, cheers bud thumbsup
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