6 Nations - England v France

Page 5 of 12 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10, 11, 12  Next

Go down

6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

First topic message reminder :

Details:

Date: Sunday 10th February 2019
Time: 15:00 GMT
Location: Twickenham Stadium
Media Coverage: ITV, BBC (highlights only), Radio 5Live


Officials

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)



Teams


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 26 caps), 14 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 43 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps), 12 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 41 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 66 caps) (c), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 81 caps), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 52 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 33 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 18 caps), 4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 69 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 28 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 9 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 6 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 37 caps).

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), 18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 82 caps), 19 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 54 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 19 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps), 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 30 caps).





France

15. Yoann Huget
14. Damian Penaud
13. Mathieu Bastareaud
12. Geoffrey Doumayrou
11. Gaël Fickou
10. Camille Lopez
9. Morgan Parra
1. Jefferson Poirot
2. Guilhem Guirado
3. Demba Bamba
4. Sébastien Vahaamahina
5. Félix Lambey
6. Yacouba Camara
7. Arthur Iturria
8. Louis Picamoles

Replacements
16. Pierre Bourgarit
17. Dany Priso
18. Dorian Aldegheri
19. Paul Willemse
20. Gregory Alldritt
21. Antoine Dupont
22. Romain Ntamack
23. Thomas Ramos


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:39 am; edited 3 times in total

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down


Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by whocares on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 9:59 am

Alas the Fickou/Mermoz of 2015 have been replaced by 2 donkeys so don’t expect much fireworks. Huget at FB is such a liability , he is probably 3rd choice in that position for Toulouse... Only there because the coaches don’t want Ramos to start his 1st game against England (

whocares

Posts : 4139
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 42
Location : France - paris area

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by BamBam on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:24 am

Lambey looked good when he came off the bench, obviously a very different type of player to Willemse who he replaced. Camara didn't play last week either did he? I thought Medard was ok at FB last week, is he injured?

BamBam

Posts : 14810
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:29 am

BamBam wrote:Lambey looked good when he came off the bench, obviously a very different type of player to Willemse who he replaced. Camara didn't play last week either did he? I thought Medard was ok at FB last week, is he injured?

Medard, Atonio and Fofana classed as injured according the the French website I looked at

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:34 am

Fickou is dangerous, but him in the back 3 and Huget at 15 is interesting, especially after how England's kicking game took charge against Ireland. Wouldn't change a thing there.

Hoping Slade can give Bastareaud more to worry about than he can give us. Or whichever back 3 players wants to run off a shoulder down his channel.

Bamba and Lambey both made positive impacts off the bench so it will be interesting to see them start. I hope England can get into them early, making them work hard in the set piece, make them work hard around the pitch and run them out of gas before they can hurt us with too many carries.

Camara is a player who's always impressed me so he'll be a threat.

Not a week France side. But if we put out our expected side and play anywhere near our potential we'll win at home.

robbo277

Posts : 3640
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:36 am

England team to play France:
Daly; Ashton, Slade, Tuilagi, May; Farrell, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Lawes, Kruis, Wilson, Curry, B Vunipola

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Cole, Moon, Launchbury, Hughes, Robson, Ford, Nowell

robbo277

Posts : 3640
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:41 am

Ashton and Nowell swap positions, Lawes starts, and the two changes at prop restricted to the bench. Shields and Cokanasiga miss out from the 25.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by BamBam on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:45 am

Interesting, wonder if that's with a view to Ashton stepping in at full back on occasion? Rest pretty much as expected, happy with that

BamBam

Posts : 14810
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:47 am

Ashton for Nowell is possibly a bit of a surprise, but otherwise as expected really from the 25 man squad selected.

Still not sure about swapping the props. I don't think we lose loads particularly, but I'm not sure if it was at all necessary. Not that Moon is particularly experienced, but both these 3rd choice guys are more experienced than the players they've replaced.

robbo277

Posts : 3640
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:48 am

Is it just swapping players to see how the cope? Seems more likely that the coaches have seen something specific that they feel Ashton may help and advantage of.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 10:50 am

All week the talk in the press seemed to be Ashton would start.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 11:15 am

Ironically we've got to the game where beshocked would be bearable. Apart from the May pick.


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 11:32 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ironically we've not got to the game where beshocked would be bearable. Apart from the May pick.


I think he would have been OK with May nowadays - after all his strike rate is now acceptable (9 in last 11?).

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by bluestonevedder on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 11:37 am

Seems odd to me to not start who I perceive are the better scrummagers in Cole and Moon. I struggle to see what impact Cole in particular will have off the bench. I fully expected Cole and Moon to  start and wear down the French front row, and then bring on the likes of Mako and Sinckler to run at the tired defence.

Guess the Ashton pick makes sense considering his familiarity with a number of the French players. Nowell off the bench could be a total live wire!

bluestonevedder

Posts : 3695
Join date : 2011-08-22

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 11:49 am

bluestonevedder wrote:...I struggle to see what impact Cole in particular will have off the bench...
I suppose, if Jones isn't planning to start Cole in his first choice XV, then he may as well have a look at what he can do from the bench

Rugby Fan

Posts : 5233
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by lostinwales on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:17 pm

Is that only one half back on the French bench? What do they do if Lopez gets hurt? Move Parra out to 10? Or does N'Tamack come in.

Not knowing any better it seems like a heavyweight back line without much in the way of tactical kicking ability. Back 3 are all dangerous runners though


lostinwales

Posts : 8085
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Fluxy on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:27 pm

lostinwales wrote:Is that only one half back on the French bench? What do they do if Lopez gets hurt? Move Parra out to 10? Or does N'Tamack come in.

Not knowing any better it seems like a heavyweight back line without much in the way of tactical kicking ability. Back 3 are all dangerous runners though


Ntamack has had game time at 10. 

Interesting that Ramos benches, he is a good all rounder at the back and would balance the need for kicking in the starting back three for France

Fluxy
Aviva Premiership Commissioner
Aviva Premiership Commissioner

Posts : 11885
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 27
Location : Isle of Wight

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Fluxy on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:27 pm

lostinwales wrote:Is that only one half back on the French bench? What do they do if Lopez gets hurt? Move Parra out to 10? Or does N'Tamack come in.

Not knowing any better it seems like a heavyweight back line without much in the way of tactical kicking ability. Back 3 are all dangerous runners though


Ntamack has had game time at 10. 

Interesting that Ramos benches, he is a good all rounder at the back and would balance the need for kicking in the starting back three for France

Fluxy
Aviva Premiership Commissioner
Aviva Premiership Commissioner

Posts : 11885
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 27
Location : Isle of Wight

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:28 pm

lostinwales wrote:Is that only one half back on the French bench? What do they do if Lopez gets hurt? Move Parra out to 10? Or does N'Tamack come in.

Not knowing any better it seems like a heavyweight back line without much in the way of tactical kicking ability. Back 3 are all dangerous runners though


Ntamack plays 10,

carpet baboon

Posts : 2150
Join date : 2014-05-08
Location : Midlands

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:30 pm

Ntamack played at 10 for the U20s. Ramos has played at 10 for Toulouse in their most recent European games (with Ntamack at 12).

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by sensisball on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:32 pm

If Lopez gets injured then Doumayrou can play 10 (he is back up at La Rochelle).
Or Du Pont who has played a few games at 10 for Toulouse and has looked totally comfortable at club level. He is insanely strong for such a small bloke, has a good break and also has a great kicking game. Mentally he also appears to be very tough. Under the pump away at leinster he rarely lost composure when he was under pressure from the L back row.

sensisball

Posts : 501
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : Glasgow

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:47 pm

The worst injury we could have is still curry. Completely unbalances us.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:49 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:...I struggle to see what impact Cole in particular will have off the bench...
I suppose, if Jones isn't planning to start Cole in his first choice XV, then he may as well have a look at what he can do from the bench

Yeah, agreed.

I also don't buy this whole notion that the only acceptable bench impact is big carries. If you're trailing the game by 10 or leading by 10 and chasing a bonus point you might want gamebreakers on the bench who can force a game open, but in a tight game you might want to tighten up your set piece, tighten up your kicking game, play territory and close out the game. Especially, for instance, in a World Cup knockout game.

If the opposition start with their stronger scrummager and bring on their "livewire" prop in the last 20, having someone who can take him to the cleaners at scrum time could lead to penalties or at the very least poor set piece ball for the opposition, completely killing any momentum they try to generate at the close and allowing you to play territory.

4 points up in a World Cup quarter-final against Australia, would you rather see George and Sinckler coming on who could win you the game by 11 points or lose it by 3, or would you rather see Hartley and Cole who probably have a much lower standard deviation.

Obviously it's dangerous to try to predict what the game will be like on the 60 minute mark when you're looking to your bench (especially in the front row), but by playing Cole on the bench now, Jones can gauge his impact as RF says. Can he close a game as Eddie wants? Can he offer any extras he doesn't offer when he starts, given he will only have a third of the gametime he would have had?

robbo277

Posts : 3640
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 12:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The worst injury we could have is still curry.  Completely unbalances us.

Nowell come on in that case.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 1:08 pm

LondonTiger wrote:All week the talk in the press seemed to be Ashton would start.

Yeah there was such certainty in a headline I saw that I thought Id missed the announcement.

Even so prior to those rumours it was not what many people would've expected with Nowell the man in and having played well in a unique role, and Cokanasiga having been the previous pick.

Quite a redemption for Ashton whose career looked goosed some time ago.

It does seem like Jones is using the 6 nations partly as a testing ground for the world cup, perhaps being more experimental than he might in other seasons. Similar with the prop changes that also raised eyebrows. It seems he is giving a wide range of players in some positions a run out.

Centres and back row though are so down to bare bones already that its no great shock that theres been no tinkering, its also two areas that partly by accident hes managed to arrive at workable combinations that are worth persisting with.

Gooseberry

Posts : 4037
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Sharkey06 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 1:10 pm

Nowell's return of 12 tries in 32 games just ain't good enough. For all his faults at least Ashton knows where the try line is. Nowell switching to 7 might be the only way to continue his England career.

Sharkey06

Posts : 36
Join date : 2018-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 1:14 pm

Nowell is by far the better player though. And while Ashton was deadly to start with his latter part of England caps dried up significantly. If he can rediscover that all to the good. I wouldn't be surprised him playing a little at 15 though.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by lostinwales on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 1:15 pm

Sharkey06 wrote:Nowell's return of 12 tries in 32 games just ain't good enough.  For all his faults at least Ashton knows where the try line is.  Nowell switching to 7 might be the only way to continue his England career.

At international level a wing's place is not measured in terms of tries only. Nowell is much more rounded player than Ashton and I don't think this selection is a demotion.

Cokanasinga may still be not quite up to speed following his injury

lostinwales

Posts : 8085
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No9 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 1:45 pm

Your lucky to have the best referee in the world for this game.... So would you like to get your excuses in early... Whistle

No9

Posts : 1280
Join date : 2013-09-20
Location : South Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Presuming Ed on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 1:51 pm

Jones is expecting a bit more space in this game hence the pick of Ashton over Nowell. IMO a mistake, first 50 France will keep it tight, so should start with Nowell and bring on the Splash on 50 when maybe some gaps do start to appear.

Presuming Ed

Posts : 81
Join date : 2016-01-15

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 2:06 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Sharkey06 wrote:Nowell's return of 12 tries in 32 games just ain't good enough.  For all his faults at least Ashton knows where the try line is.  Nowell switching to 7 might be the only way to continue his England career.

At international level a wing's place is not measured in terms of tries only. Nowell is much more rounded player than Ashton and I don't think this selection is a demotion.

Cokanasinga may still be not quite up to speed following his injury

Also worth noting that many of Nowells caps (10) are as a replacement. Hes also started as a centre in one game, and covered fullback numerous times.
And that Ashton has 5 tries in his last 26 caps (23 starts), including a run of 11 starts without scoring one at all.

If anything Nowells recent test scoring record as a wing is better than Ashtons. Ashtons tries for his club this year have almost all come in the joke second tier euro losers cup, just one in the premiership.
Whilst I would still agree that Ashton is a more natural out and out strike winger and finisher theres not a lot this season and in the past 9 years for England to suggest he's really deserving the spot on some super human ability to create tries out of nothing.
Sure he had a great season in France and was generally very good for Saracens during his exile period, but I'm yet to be convinced he will have the same impact he did a decade ago.

All the other things Nowell brings to the party, well I'm really surprised to see him not picked. Ashton can roam of course (and this may be where he can find some of his early career success if hes given the freedom he was denied under Lancaster), but he isnt going to offer that extra beef in defence or the footballing skills of Nowell.

Gooseberry

Posts : 4037
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 2:07 pm

No9 wrote:Your lucky to have the best referee in the world for this game.... So would you like to get your excuses in early... Whistle


I thought we had Owens?

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 2:10 pm

Presuming Ed wrote:Jones is expecting a bit more space in this game hence the pick of Ashton over Nowell. IMO a mistake, first 50 France will keep it tight, so should start with Nowell and bring on the Splash on 50 when maybe some gaps do start to appear.

Ashton's try against New Zealand was quite early on and Eddie has said he fancies him to score early this week too.

It depends where and when you expect the gaps to be. If you want someone to finish in the wide channels or are expecting a lot of line breaks, then you go with Ashton. If you want someone to test the fringes and inside shoulders, then you go with Nowell. If you want someone to smash the door down, you go with Cokanasiga.

Maybe Eddie is expecting France to be compact first up which will potentially leave space out wide? And then space out when the game breaks up a bit and have Nowell run at broken field.

robbo277

Posts : 3640
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 2:10 pm

No9 wrote:Your lucky to have the best referee in the world for this game.... So would you like to get your excuses in early... Whistle

No excuses, if we don't win this one we've underperformed. Especially coming off last week's performance.

robbo277

Posts : 3640
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 2:27 pm

No9 wrote:Your lucky to have the best referee in the world for this game.... So would you like to get your excuses in early... Whistle

Best referee of which year?

Luckless Pedestrian

Posts : 23076
Join date : 2011-02-01
Age : 40
Location : Newport

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by robbo277 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 3:01 pm

Big World Cup vibe this week, with Scotland vs Ireland and England vs France both being World Cup 2019 pool stage encounters, as well as Italy vs Wales being a potential final if both teams win their pools.

Okay, so the last one was tongue-in-cheek, but do we think the World Cup factored into anyone's decision making this week? Do we think anyone will attempt to hide their trump cards? Or is that unlikely?

robbo277

Posts : 3640
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30
Location : Brighton, England

https://twitter.com/#!/robbo277

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 3:33 pm

Im.sure it's first and foremost win the game no matter what. Coaches should always have half an eye on the future but with how quickly things can change I'd suggest the win is king.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by majesticimperialman on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 4:04 pm

I do not think that any coach at this point in the 6ns is looking beyond the next game.
The next game in the 6ns, and leave the RWC untill after the 6ns and see how well there team did.

majesticimperialman

Posts : 4786
Join date : 2011-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Exiledinborders on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 4:12 pm

No9 wrote:Your lucky to have the best referee in the world for this game.... So would you like to get your excuses in early... Whistle
The trouble is these days he is about as unfit as the French team and is usually about forty yards behind the game.

Exiledinborders

Posts : 1556
Join date : 2012-03-18
Location : Scottish Borders

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 5:02 pm

Enjoyed James Haskell and Mike Tindell's latest Joe.ie podcast. Jeepers Tindall is a smug funk. I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually Cyril as he really seems to dislike Ireland (albeit not quite as weird). He does his best but I think he finds it really hard to be diplomatic when talking about the Ireland side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gfj-lyDW-4

Collapse2005

Posts : 2528
Join date : 2017-08-24

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by miaow on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 5:07 pm

Presuming Ed wrote:Jones is expecting a bit more space in this game hence the pick of Ashton over Nowell. IMO a mistake, first 50 France will keep it tight, so should start with Nowell and bring on the Splash on 50 when maybe some gaps do start to appear.

That is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever going to happen

miaow

Posts : 1896
Join date : 2011-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by miaow on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:00 pm

robbo277 wrote:Ashton's try against New Zealand was quite early on and Eddie has said he fancies him to score early this week too.

I feel like this is becoming a key trait/approach/tactic for England recently. Not just big starts to the game - I think most people can see that with England, they look to start the game at a physical level that shocks the opposition.

But more than that they're going for the throat from the first minute. No 'warming' into the game; no getting points on the board with a kick or two. First 5 minutes, get a try. Use your best strike move/backplay is you have to. The psychological damage that can cause can't be underestimated, particularly in a big game. If you stop England scoring a try early on, and if you can effectively keep the ball away from them as well, or weather the storm when they do have it in that first quarter, you take something away from them.

I actually think Scotland should go looking for a few 3 pointers early on when they play them in a few weeks' time. Even a few drop goals. Get points on the board and England might be more likely to respond in course rather than having the comfort/confidence to go for tries. I don't think this will happen though. Wales have generally been pretty good at holding them out; France might stop them scoring until the 10 min mark, Italy likewise. But this is more of a 'big game' tactic now for me - they're scoring against the big boys, so perhaps ITA/FRA not really worth looking at in terms of England's type of approach when at their best.

I went and check out the stats England's games since EJ has been in, discarding the Babas and Summer warm up games. These are the results.

It's opposition, location. Result. First English try scorer (minute. If not a try, first England point scorer, type (minute).

2016

SCO, Edin. Won. Kruis (13').
ITA, Rome. Won. Ford (24'). Farrell, pen (11')
IRE, HQ. Won. Watson (57'). Farrell, pen (11')
WAL, HQ. Won. Watson (31'). Farrell, pen (9')
FRA, Paris. Won. Care (11'). Farrell, pen (4')
AUS, Bris. Won. Yarde (31'). Farrell, pen (20')
AUS, Mel. Won. Hartley (18')
AUS, Syd. Won. Cole (10')
SA, HQ. Won. May (10')
FIJI, HQ. Won. Jospeh (3')
ARG, HQ. Won. Penalty try (28'). Farrell, pen (3')
AUS, HQ. Won. Joseph (29'). Farrell, pen (18')

2017

FRA, HQ. Won. Te'o (70'). Farrell, pen (9')
WAL, Car. Won. Youngs (17'). Farrell, pen (10')
ITA, HQ. Won. Cole (23')
SCO, HQ. Won. Joseph (2')
IRE, Dub. Lost. none. Farrell, pen (17')
ARG, San J. Won. Yarde (30'). Ford, pen (16')
ARG, Sant. Won. Ewels (5')
ARG, HQ. Won. Hughes (22'). Ford, pen (6')
AUS, HQ. Won. Daly (53'). Farrell, pen (6')
SAM, HQ. Won. Brown (1')

2018

ITA, Rom. Won. Watson (2')
WAL, HQ. Won. May (2')

SCO, Mur. Lost. Farrell (43'). Farrell, pen (13')
FRA, Par. Lost. May (74'). Farrell, pen (4')
IRE, HQ. Lost. Daly (2')
SA, Joh. Lost. Brown (3'). Daly, pen (1')
SA, Bloe. Lost. Brown (9')
SA, Cape. Won. May (71'). Farrell, pen (9')
SA, HQ. Won. none. Farrell, pen (20')
NZ, HQ. Lost. Ashton (1')
JAP, HQ. Won. Care (2')
AUS, HQ. Won. May (2')


2019

IRE, Dub. Won. May (1)

What's interesting is that this trend started around the time England started losing games, which would suggest a change in the way they started scoring points. There's one result in the first season against Fiji - not hugely unexpected. By and large England are scoring in the first half of their games at this point. Quite a few around the 10 minute mark - this might be relevant, still a fairly early score but not in the first 5 minutes.

Second year there are 3 results - one against Samoa, so similar to Fiji. One on Summer Tour, one against a weakened Scotland. So perhaps not too surprising. Scores are a bit more varied here - a few coming in the second half, and the first score generally coming 'later' around the first-to-second quarter mark.

The third year is telling. 7 games where they scored a 5 pointer in the first 5 minutes. Only 5 games where this didn't happen (another came on 9 mins). Yet they still lost 3 of those 7 games. Read what you want into that - it's not the most telling stat here. But it does show a clear change in clinicality in the opening minutes, and to my mind, it coincided with a shift in tactics/approach as well, as I said in the opening. You can now add May's try against Ireland into this group, so it's 8 tries in the last 13 competitive games where England have scored in the first 5 minutes. What is most telling, though, is the opposition of those 8 games: it's not just the Pacific Islanders or an Argentina, it's the biggest tests. SANZAR, Ireland twice and Wales. Those are the best teams in the world: they're currently ranked 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the World. England are 2nd. That's a big stat.

Stop England getting over the tryline in those first 5-10 minutes, when legs and fresh and their physical runners are going full tilt, and you avoid suffering a key psychological blow against them. I have no doubt this is what happened against Ireland - not saying this decides/wins the game, but I do think it plays a massive, massive part. We tend to focus on late points in sport, Fergie time etc., but rarely at the opening but it is just as important too, particularly in a game like Rugby.

In reality, I think it's not just the first 5 mins here. It's an even smaller window than that - it's the first 2. England really do go for the jugular from the first minute and they're getting results with it. Big ask for opposition teams to stop that happening now.

miaow

Posts : 1896
Join date : 2011-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:20 pm

It feels like your try g to d It stats to suit what you predict. There's a lack of info to know ho2 England went about those games. There hasn't been an over enthusiasm for England to have a lot of ball carriers in the t3am ask Geordie on that. There's also a rich old mix where England have won despite not scoring early and vice versa scored early and didn't win. By all means do the deep dive but go the whole h9f with an open mind.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by miaow on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It feels like your try g to d It stats to suit what you predict. There's a lack of info to know ho2 England went about those games. There hasn't been an over enthusiasm for England to have a lot of ball carriers in the t3am ask Geordie on that. There's also a rich old mix where England have won despite not scoring early and vice versa scored early and didn't win. By all means do the deep dive but go the whole h9f with an open mind.

Honestly can't make sense of that. It's a mess.

miaow

Posts : 1896
Join date : 2011-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:30 pm

I assumed you'd ignore it.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by miaow on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:33 pm

No, I literally don't understand it. It's incomprehensible. You seem to be saying I'm using stats to prop up a 'prediction' that England are trying to score tries in the first 5 minutes of games? If it wasn't such a lexical mess maybe the main point would be easier to decipher. But it's not.

Anyway, let's just leave that there.

miaow

Posts : 1896
Join date : 2011-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:37 pm

Facts twisted to suit your points rather than using analysis. No review of how those points were scored merely see in right. Applying the last game where there a lot more carriers than normal as others have often criticised e.g. Wilson who is a good carrier not even used. You just need to watch more of England you base too much on presumptions. After that yes probably best if you do drop it.
My issue is you always just play on stereotypes rather than what's happening.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by miaow on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:43 pm




Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug

miaow

Posts : 1896
Join date : 2011-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:45 pm

Nice. It's best to throw insults. Very fitting. Hopefully you'll start to watch a bit more of England and base analysis on what's actually happened from now on. Look forward to it.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 17321
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Heaf on Fri 08 Feb 2019, 6:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
No9 wrote:Your lucky to have the best referee in the world for this game.... So would you like to get your excuses in early... Whistle


I thought we had Owens?

At least we didn't have him last week Smile

Heaf

Posts : 2780
Join date : 2011-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:53 am

Lousy looking weather forecast

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 19022
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 12 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10, 11, 12  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum