6 Nations - England v France

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

First topic message reminder :

Details:

Date: Sunday 10th February 2019
Time: 15:00 GMT
Location: Twickenham Stadium
Media Coverage: ITV, BBC (highlights only), Radio 5Live


Officials

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)



Teams


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 26 caps), 14 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 43 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps), 12 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 41 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 66 caps) (c), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 81 caps), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 52 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 33 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 18 caps), 4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 69 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 28 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 9 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 6 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 37 caps).

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), 18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 82 caps), 19 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 54 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 19 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps), 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 30 caps).





France

15. Yoann Huget
14. Damian Penaud
13. Mathieu Bastareaud
12. Geoffrey Doumayrou
11. Gaël Fickou
10. Camille Lopez
9. Morgan Parra
1. Jefferson Poirot
2. Guilhem Guirado
3. Demba Bamba
4. Sébastien Vahaamahina
5. Félix Lambey
6. Yacouba Camara
7. Arthur Iturria
8. Louis Picamoles

Replacements
16. Pierre Bourgarit
17. Dany Priso
18. Dorian Aldegheri
19. Paul Willemse
20. Gregory Alldritt
21. Antoine Dupont
22. Romain Ntamack
23. Thomas Ramos


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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:21 am

Going to be an interesting game this one. England on a high but France offer a completely different threat than that of Ireland. I cant see England loosing but I think France will be tougher than most would expect.
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Post by TJ on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:31 am

For me France may have the physicality to best England with that monster pack and they have the backs to score tries.

Perhaps the game of the round?

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:37 am

The french team has taken an absolute trashing in the french rugby papers, it will be interesting to see if this can turn them into a cohesive force or whether last week was all they had?


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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:37 am

But will they have the fitness over 80 mins TJ.?

Im not sure...and I think we saw that in the Wales game.

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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:39 am

England did an excellent job at outplaying the very vaunted Irish pack so I don't think they will be all that worried about the French pack, as big as it is.

I just feel that France will stretch England in ways Ireland could not, such is the unpredictability of the French play at times.
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Post by lostinwales on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:44 am

TJ wrote:For me France may have the physicality to best England with that monster pack and they have the backs to score tries.

Perhaps the game of the round?

Yes and they'll be up for this. But the forwards are not much bigger and look softer than England's, and the whole team look fragile.

Game of the round more likely to be Scotland Ireland to be honest.

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Post by El Radar on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:47 am

The French pack has the size but it lacks the mobility of the English and that is where the collision was won on Saturday that extra line speed and it will be highlighted even more this Saturday (I hope).

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Post by TJ on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:50 am

Game of the round more likely to be Scotland Ireland to be honest.
Noty if you are a scotland fan.  Those ruddy Irish will steal the ball and run away - maybe occasionally giving us a go when we are in our own 22.  The Russell will try to win the game with one pass and gift them a try.

I see a humping coming

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 11:59 am

Apparently Lawes has a tattoo on his arm for each half back he's taken out of a game*



* might not be true

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 12:02 pm

TJ wrote:For me France may have the physicality to best England with that monster pack and they have the backs to score tries.

Perhaps the game of the round?

I'm not going to say anything as cliche as it depends which France turn up, but a lot will depend on their selection and their game plan. If they go with Bastareaud, then for me that's reactionary and screams damage limitation. I think he can be dealt with easily enough. Wilson, Curry and Vunipola won't be shy about getting out to tackle him, Farrell doesn't shy out of his tackles and Tuilagi is a big hitter too. Bastareaud would give the French attack and defense a focal point, but I honestly believe with the team we have we can cause more problems for him than he can for us.

The other option is Fofana and Ntamack to continue. I've not seen much of Ntamack, but he's obviously been brought in for a reason, and I'm sure the England team will be less sure of how he's going to play. He could be a bit of a wildcard for France, especially if the pack can get him onto the front foot. France looked dangerous in the first half against Wales, and their only chance is if they can keep challenging England during the 80 minutes.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 12:03 pm

I think if France go for the same or a very similar pack to the one that played France, England will need to weather the storm and absorb their forward carries for the first half. The French pack is big but I don't think they are particularly fit, as evidenced by their second half performance. Wait for them to tire and I think they'll struggle to keep up with England's faster and more direct strike runners.

France looked terrifyingly good in the first 20 minutes or so. If they can find consistency in that sort of performance, I'll be extremely worried. I just don't think they are at that point where they can play like that for anywhere close to 80 minutes.

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Post by sensisball on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 12:37 pm

Apparent good news for France is bad for Atonio in that he is apparently unfit (when is he not? ) for this weekend.
Could mean Bamba starting who has way less experience but at 20 is already a better scrummager than Atonio and about 300% more mobile around the park. Plus he can carry ball and not simply fall over in a tackle and then cough it up.
Or Gomes - Sa might start (more experience than La Bamba) and also at least 300% more mobile than Atonio!
At a stroke half of the lack of mobility of the front five would be addressed.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 12:39 pm

sensisball wrote:Apparent good news for France is bad for Atonio in that he is apparently unfit (when is he not? ) for this weekend.
Could mean Bamba starting who has way less experience but at 20 is already a better scrummager than Atonio and about 300% more mobile around the park. Plus he can carry ball and not simply fall over in a tackle and then cough it up.
Or Gomes - Sa might start (more experience than La Bamba) and also at least 300% more mobile than Atonio!
At a stroke half of the lack of mobility of the front five would be addressed.

Bamba looked pretty damn impressive when he got on the pitch. Very much the new breed of prop.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 12:41 pm

Itoje out for 2 to 4 weeks. Isiekwe has replaced him in the wider squad.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 12:42 pm

Itoje out for '2-4 weeks' so misses next two games

Isekwe has been brought into the squad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47130799

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 12:53 pm

lostinwales wrote:Itoje out for '2-4 weeks' so misses next two games

Isekwe has been brought into the squad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47130799


Squad added to the OP. 

Interesting to see that Isiekwe rather than Ewels has replaced Itoje. Trying to see if there is any other difference to the last squad

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:00 pm

Looking at England's 35 man squad for the France game:

22 players from the Ireland game retained (all except Itoje)

Additional 13 players in some kind of positional order:
Cole, Moon, Singleton
Isiekwe, Launchbury
Clifford, Earl, Shields
Devoto, Te'o
Brown, Cokanasiga, Thorley

We need someone in for Itoje. Launchbury, most likely.
Clifford, Shields, Te'o and Cokanasiga return after minor injuries, although whether they'll be fully fit to play remains to be seen.

Otherwise there is good continuity from the first squad. Maybe some of those injured 4 might force their way in, but I can't see anyone else working their way into the matchday squad.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:10 pm

It looks like 34 of the 36 people who went to Portugal plus Isiekwe, meaning Joseph misses out having been added to the last squad at the last minute.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:It looks like 34 of the 36 people who went to Portugal plus Isiekwe, meaning Joseph misses out having been added to the last squad at the last minute.

At least he got a holiday out of it then.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:21 pm

eirebilly wrote:Going to be an interesting game this one. England on a high but France offer a completely different threat than that of Ireland. I cant see England loosing but I think France will be tougher than most would expect.
Both teams have monster packs. Only one pack is fit though.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:32 pm

Woul you say Isiekwe is a more physical player than Ewels

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:35 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Woul you say Isiekwe is a more physical player than Ewels

I would say so, even if he has been largely at 6 for Sarries. Unlikely to be in the 23 man squad though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:46 pm

Thinking about the likelihood of Launchbury coming on to the bench does it make it more likely that Hughes is dropped? Only really covers 8 despite his lock cameo (Yes I know he started off there). Clifford is the obvious guy if fit who covers all 3 positions and I'd consider him a good impact player as well.

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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:54 pm

I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Edit :

Dirty is probably a bad way to describe Itoje, maybe cynical is better.


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Post by El Radar on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:54 pm

Hughes was arguably at his best playing 6 for Wasps in his early days there.

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Post by El Radar on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:55 pm

eirebilly wrote:I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Bit of retribution for May being blocked all game.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:56 pm

eirebilly wrote:I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Edit :

Dirty is probably a bad way to describe Itoje, maybe cynical is better.

What do you think about Sinkler then?
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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:57 pm

El Radar wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Bit of retribution for May being blocked all game.

Not referring to the block. Just in general he is becoming more cynical. Such a good player but really needs to tighten up.
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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 1:58 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Edit :

Dirty is probably a bad way to describe Itoje, maybe cynical is better.

What do you think about Sinkler then?

I actually like Sinkler, he seems more naughty than anything. Itoje just seems to be more calculating in his cynical play.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:14 pm

El Radar wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I have said this before but again I noticed, during Saturdays game, that Itoje is turning into a bit of a dirty player.

It really is only a matter of time before he starts costing England. He may be out of the 6N now but I do feel that he needs to be spoken too and brought into line.

Bit of retribution for May being blocked all game.

You don't think the Ireland wingers were blocked all game too?

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Post by BamBam on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:15 pm

What did he do that was dirty or cynical?

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:19 pm

The last couple of years England were dreadful at "making sure opponents would have to run a long way round" (aka blocking) while Ireland were excellent at it.

It was obvious that England had worked on this but are still not as proficient at it as Ireland. With the Murray on May one, this was actually a poor effort by the SH as rather than looking as though he were just standing his ground, he did seem to change his line. IF Itoje had not clattered into Earls it may have been picked up (mainly because irrespective of the contact, Earls was not going to reach the ball on the full), but Itoje's challenge trumped any other foul play, and reasonably so.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:20 pm

He held sexton in a ruck Bam.

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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:24 pm

Murray is notorious at blocking runners. I really dislike it as it has led to a couple of injuries over the years due to him being clattered, rightfully to in my opinion.

As for Itoje, I have noticed over the last season or 2 that he is more inclined to wind up the opposition than focus on his own game. I remember a few games back (cant remember which one) that he was too busy screaming in the face of an opponent and jumping up and down after a dropped ball whereas if he was focused he could have picked up the ball himself and waltzed over the line.

This is just my opinion though, does not make it correct thumbsup
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:He held sexton in a ruck Bam.

It was hilarious...as Sexton punched his arm repeatedly and the linesman shouted at itoje, and Itoje just pretended to be oblivious.

Did he come up through the All Blacks school of dark arts... Yahoo Laugh Laugh


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:26 pm

As an aside. Wasn't itoje fantastic before he went off. Properly back to form. shame he got trapped in that ruck.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:31 pm

eirebilly wrote:Murray is notorious at blocking runners. I really dislike it as it has led to a couple of injuries over the years due to him being clattered, rightfully to in my opinion.

As for Itoje, I have noticed over the last season or 2 that he is more inclined to wind up the opposition than focus on his own game. I remember a few games back (cant remember which one) that he was too busy screaming in the face of an opponent and jumping up and down after a dropped ball whereas if he was focused he could have picked up the ball himself and waltzed over the line.

This is just my opinion though, does not make it correct thumbsup

I actually agree...for all his supposed maturity and captaincy material, I think he has shown some over the top celebrating like a footballer etc. Hopefully its just a phase and he gets shot of it pretty quickly.

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Post by sensisball on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:33 pm

For anyone interested in the weight of the apparently emaciated Wenceslas Lauret, he is around 108 KG as is the open side flanker Itturia (taller and a bit leaner than Lauret).

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:41 pm

Itoje has had discipline problems for ever in my opinion. I just always assumed his decisions would get better as he aged. For all his quality I do think he's on the wrong side of the line too often and is to an extent a penalty magnet.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:47 pm

I don't mind his clapping when opponents make mistakes, if it gets under the opposition players' skin as much as it does the opposition fans', then it's got to be worth something.

If it makes you feel better, think about him applauding his team's defensive set which held out to the point that the opposition made a mistake before they were able to break it down. That's the point of defence isn't it? To force an error, turnover or kick so you get the ball back.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:53 pm

LondonTiger wrote:2013 6Ns. Manu scored and Basteraud was pulled off.
They used to get oranges...

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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 2:55 pm

It does not get under my skin at all as an opposing fan, I just think that it is bad sportsmanship and shows a lack of maturity. No problem with geeing up your own players after a good piece of play either but that should be done after the whistle and when play is halted, until then, you must always remain focused in my opinion.

I just think that Itoje is far too inclined to wind up the opposition rather than focussing on the game at hand.
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 3:34 pm

England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 3:35 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

He also played sh1t. Not physical enough for a six. That game would have been perfect for Ferris.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 3:37 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:2013 6Ns. Manu scored and Basteraud was pulled off.
They used to get oranges...

Laugh

Outstanding clap

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Post by eirebilly on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 3:41 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

Sinckler got under POM's skin after he stuck his finger in his ear. I thought it was actually quite funny.
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Post by nathan on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 4:02 pm

eirebilly wrote:It does not get under my skin at all as an opposing fan, I just think that it is bad sportsmanship and shows a lack of maturity. No problem with geeing up your own players after a good piece of play either but that should be done after the whistle and when play is halted, until then, you must always remain focused in my opinion.

I just think that Itoje is far too inclined to wind up the opposition rather than focussing on the game at hand.

Every player winds up each player for a reaction. Case in point Healey rubbing his elbow around Lawes head whilst on the floor.

It's just a part of the game.


Last edited by nathan on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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6 Nations - England v France - Page 2 Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 4:03 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

He also played sh1t. Not physical enough for a six. That game would have been perfect for Ferris.
Ahhh now there was a 6!!

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6 Nations - England v France - Page 2 Empty Re: 6 Nations - England v France

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 4:04 pm

eirebilly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

Sinckler got under POM's skin after he stuck his finger in his ear. I thought it was actually quite funny.

Did he give him a wet willy? I didn't realise that. Wondered what the stupid c**t comment was actually for...

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 05 Feb 2019, 4:47 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:England got under POM's skin on Saturday...

He also played sh1t. Not physical enough for a six. That game would have been perfect for Ferris.

O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander would be a physical enough back row, would it not? We have been successful before with Robshaw at 6, who isn't particularly physical. Balance is key. Without O'Brien and with Stander carrying an injury, your back row as a whole was probably lacking a bit of physicality.

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