6N 2019: Italy v Ireland, Round 3, 23 February

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 09 Feb 2019, 8:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

So who gets to play in this one? Who needs a rest?

Sexton has joined the injured list, but Schmidt says he should have recovered from his HIA in time. But is this the match where Schmidt wants to give Carbery a proper start, and possibly have Carty on the bench? POM looked in fine fettle but could he benefit from a couple of weeks off for his rib injury?

On the basis of the Scotland match, the depth held up fairly well with the likes of Kilcoyne coming through stronger and taking the place of Jack McGrath, and Roux and Dillane holding their ends up at scrum, lineout and in the loose. Conan got through a lot of tackles 18 and missed 1. And Chris Farrell got another full 80 minutes without mishap.

As ever, Schmidt won’t go too far in making too many changes, and he’ll want to come away from Rome with 5 points to keep them in the hunt if it goes down to the wire on the final weekend.

He might have Tadgh Beirne or Iain Henderson back for this one, and possibly Kieran Marmion with Munster v Kings, Ospreys v Ulster and Connacht v Cheetahs next weekend to give them some game time if necessary.

Henshaw just had a dead leg, so he should be good to go. Not sure abut Ringrose and his hamstring.

Will Addison is another who needs to be seen although a starting spot may be out of reach.

Who would you have in your 23 allowing for some of the above injured being passed fit to play?

I’ve gone for provincial partnerships where possible in my selection:

McGrath, Best, Porter
Henderson, Roux
SOB, Ruddock/Murphy, Conan
Murray, Carbery
Henshaw, Farrell
Larmour, Stockdale, Kearney

Reps: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Ryan, Ruddock/Murphy, Dillane, Marmion, Carty, Addison

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Post by ebop on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:59 pm

Facts are good. Can’t fault a fact. It’s the spin you have to be mindful of. For example, we had Rodders trying to tell me Ireland have been consistent over the years with a footnote = ‘in the NH’. And guns inventing #2 rankings that didn’t exist. Yeah, Ireland may have been good in the NH at that time but 1,2,3 may have been NZ, SA, Aus (or whatever combination). Anyways, you’re onto it SecretFly, enlightened. Why the yo-yo?
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 1:09 pm

The rankings doesn't really tell you how consistent Ireland have been because you can fall and rise without even playing a game. Re the 2 ranking I said from memory. Im sure in around 06/07 we climbed to 2.

Ireland have had a good record v SH sides where good sides like Wales have not so the SH sides gain points v our traditional rivals and lose them against us.

Last 10 games v SA - Ireland 7 wins.
Last 10 games v Argentina - Ireland 7 wins.
Last 10 games v Australia - Ireland 5 wins 1 draw
Last 10 games v NZ - 2 wins

23 wins 1 draw and 16 losses. Not too bad.

Ireland record in the six nations is also very consistent, only England have more wins in total.

So there you go ranking fluctuations don't really tell you that much.

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Post by ebop on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 1:22 pm

Wales and Ireland do well in Europe but not so well playing away from the comforts of home. Ireland redressed this with a series win against Australia. It was a bit scratchy but a series win nonetheless. Some teams simply want their mummys on tour, figuratively speaking. Some teams have that experience at winning away and build on it. A team like the ABs for example will play any team anywhere and not give a f**k and expect to win. Guns you said 2009 was a good year, but Ireland’s rank went to 4. So the 6Ns that year must have been weak and the top teams were from the SH. So really, not that special an achievement. I haven’t looked into it but that’s what it suggests.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 1:27 pm

ebop wrote:Wales and Ireland do well in Europe but not so well playing away from the comforts of home. Ireland redressed this with a series win against Australia. It was a bit scratchy but a series win nonetheless. Some teams simply want their mummys on tour, figuratively speaking. Some teams have that experience at winning away and build on it. A team like the ABs for example will play any team anywhere and not give a f**k and expect to win. Guns you said 2009 was a good year, but Ireland’s rank went to 4. So the 6Ns that year must have been weak and the top teams were from the SH. So really, not that special an achievement. I haven’t looked into it but that’s what it suggests.

You are making my point for me. Ireland didnt lose a single game in 2009 so who cares what the rankings said at the end of the year. We beat everyone in the 6N and beat reigning world champions SA. What more do you want from a good year?

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Post by ebop on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 1:32 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:Wales and Ireland do well in Europe but not so well playing away from the comforts of home. Ireland redressed this with a series win against Australia. It was a bit scratchy but a series win nonetheless. Some teams simply want their mummys on tour, figuratively speaking. Some teams have that experience at winning away and build on it. A team like the ABs for example will play any team anywhere and not give a f**k and expect to win. Guns you said 2009 was a good year, but Ireland’s rank went to 4. So the 6Ns that year must have been weak and the top teams were from the SH. So really, not that special an achievement. I haven’t looked into it but that’s what it suggests.

You are making my point for me. Ireland didnt lose a single game in 2009 so who cares what the rankings said at the end of the year. We beat everyone in the 6N and beat reigning world champions SA. What more do you want from a good year?
Where were other 6N teams ranked? SA were #1 in 2009 so a good win there. But only climbing to 4 suggests it wasn’t such an amazing run. Check the yo-yo graph.

How much did Ireland beat Italy by in 2009? Hopefully by a big margin otherwise questions will be asked.
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Post by rodders on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 3:45 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Re the 2 ranking I said from memory. Im sure in around 06/07 we climbed to 2.

I remember the same, definitely in the run up the RWC we were up to 2nd place.

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Post by miaow on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 4:55 pm

Taylorman wrote:
ebop wrote:You got that wrong. I care very much that over 300 NZ professional rugby players have been bought by NH clubs and NZ coaches lead several NH club and national sides. I care very much about that so I have an interest in NH rugby. You’d probably prefer a brexit like forum where no foreigners are allowed. Is that what you want? Where you can go about blowing smoke up your NH bums in peace?

Turkeyshoot bro. Catch the laumapes of this world tonight. Six mations. Six... nappies. Laugh

There's some fantastic attacking play in Super Rugby but it does live up to the stereotypes.

Blatant forward pass to Laumape from TJ Perenara that gets ignored, among many others that allow the game to be played at pace/running onto passes, and the defence can be abject from both sides. What you refer to as lack of skill in the 6Ns - i.e. controlling the ball through forward play - should make for an interesting contrast at the RWC as the SH teams look a lot leaner and fitter (not just the likes of Dane Coles and his mobility, this is across the board) where the NH teams are looking big and strong in comparison. The conditions in Japan shouldn't particularly suit one style over the other and, if done well, we know Ireland, at least, are able to dominate SANZAR teams through that style of play.

Incidentally, Laumape's 3 tries included him switching off and nearly getting hauled down with a clear run-in, an intercept, and the aforementioned forward pass. If you're someone who only sees the negatives, it would be very easy to rubbish SH rugby as well...

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Post by miaow on Fri 01 Mar 2019, 4:56 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Also in 2011 France Wales probably deserved to win the final.

Whistle

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Mar 2019, 7:10 am

rodders wrote:
ebop wrote:
rodders wrote:
ebop wrote:So guns, when did Ireland achieve a #2 ranking in 2007 and 2009? Were they pinnacle years? Yeah, the 6Ns gets attention over here but it’s far from considered special. More a curiosity.

So we've gone now from breakout years to pinnacle years?

Out of interest do you consider 2015 to be New Zealand's break out or pinnacle?
If you want to dwell on semantics then that’s ok. I reckon Ireland (until recently) have never been at a higher peak. Is that fair or do you reckon Ireland’s 6Ns wins and GSs in glory years of old are when Ireland have really been the best they’ve ever been? Even though they’ve not really dominated SH opposition across the board in those years. NZ rugby has operated at a pinnacle for over a decade.

Well if we are going to be pedantic about Ireland then shouldn't we consider semantics.

NZ has operated at a very high standard for a decade absolutely. But it was 2011 they broke their RWC duck so it is arguable their dominance only really began then.

Ireland have been constantly at or near the top of NH rugby since the mid naughties. 2018 could be considered the best year but so could 2009, or even 2006/2007. We've had a few disappointing seasons along the way but generally been very consistent, 2018 certainly wasn't an anomaly.


Dominance doesnt start or end with a narrow set of one offs , but years of being consistently no. 1, so 2010

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Mar 2019, 7:22 pm

miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Also in 2011 France Wales probably deserved to win the final.

Whistle

True, i guess when your teams never won it all you have is bitterness towards those that have. Sad really. Laugh

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Mar 2019, 10:07 pm

Not even close to being bitter. Let's just lower the heat here, it's boring.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 04 Mar 2019, 11:39 am

I hope we do a better job on Italy next weekend than the first weekend. Now we know what they can do so no excuses. 5-56 should be the score line, I reckon.

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