Wales v England thread (6 Nations)

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 7:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Date: 23rd Feb 2019
Time: 9:45 am (Mountain Time)
Venue: MILLENIUM Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)


Teams:

Wales: Wales: Liam Williams (Saracens); George North (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester); Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, captain), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Dragons).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons), Aled Davies (Ospreys), Dan Biggar (Northampton), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).


England: Daly; Nowell, Slade, Tuilagi, May; Farrell, Youngs; Moon, George, Sinckler, Lawes, Kruis, Wilson, Curry, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Williams, Launchbury, Shields, Robson, Ford, Cokanasiga.





LondonTiger wrote:ANY personal attacks will be a ban. No warnings.


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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:19 pm

Forecast is for perfect rugby playing weather, so no excuses from either side.

I suspect EJ will want the roof open as England's insurance doesn't cover working in an exceptionally noisy environment and the possible consequences, i.e. deafness.


Good excuse for not obeying the ref. Player .....Sorry sir, too much noise I didn't here you shout "let go".

Ref: "You shouldn't have had hold of his testicles anyway, next time, yellow card".

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:24 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Forecast is for perfect rugby playing weather, so no excuses from either side.

I suspect EJ will want the roof open as England's insurance doesn't cover working in an exceptionally noisy environment and the possible consequences, i.e. deafness.


Good excuse for not obeying the ref. Player .....Sorry sir, too much noise I didn't here you shout "let go".

Ref: "You shouldn't have had hold of his testicles anyway, next time, yellow card".
 Either you liked this so much you just had to post it a second time, or you really are Well Past It Run

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:25 pm

WTF is he doing on the bench?

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Post by nathan on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:25 pm

Freddie Tuilagi has come out and blasted RugbyPass and said it's not april 1st yet.

Hopefully that means Manu isn't off.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:31 pm

nathan wrote:Freddie Tuilagi has come out and blasted RugbyPass and said it's not april 1st yet.

Hopefully that means Manu isn't off.

https://twitter.com/FreddieTuilagi/status/1098587890957856773

Not least it would be an odd time to officially announce a new contract.

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Post by Pie on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:32 pm

Eddie really is a #$%^&

If this is the greatest Welsh team ever - his words - then this is hardly going to be the biggest game of their lives

Doh

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:34 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:WTF is he doing on the bench?
 Who?

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Post by BamBam on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:36 pm

I assume the back up scrum half, mikey is not a fan

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Post by tazfalklands on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:37 pm

Totally Different atmosphere is why the roof is open. Dont need the welsh fans to be any more fervent, and if it makes it a little quieter, so you actually hear when some-ones spotted the overlap or space behind even better

Bit like the tunnel stand off. Wales sitting in a nice warm dressing room whilst England were expected to go stand quietly in the cold as they were booed and had a welsh DJ going OTT in Charlotte Church music.

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Post by nathan on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:43 pm

Pie wrote:Eddie really is a #$%^&

If this is the greatest Welsh team ever - his words - then this is hardly going to be the biggest game of their lives

Doh

He's from the same pool as Gatland. You just learn to ignore it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 4:53 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:WTF is he doing on the bench?
 Who?

Aled. It should have been known at least 3 years ago that he couldn't cut it at this level. If Gareth Davies gets injured we'll lose by 50.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:04 pm

Hopefully Davies comes down with the flu on Saturday morning

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:07 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:WTF is he doing on the bench?
Tomos is injured. No one else was called up.

I don’t think you are the only one to question his inclusion particularly after the Italy match. Surprisingly a number of people thought he played well.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:11 pm

BamBam wrote:Hopefully Davies comes down with the flu on Saturday morning

Yeah, Aled Davies...

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:12 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:WTF is he doing on the bench?
Tomos is injured. No one else was called up.

I don’t think you are the only one to question his inclusion particularly after the Italy match. Surprisingly a number of people thought he played well.

I know he's injured but it could have been avoided had someone else been picked in the first place. Before you ask who, let's just say anyone but Aled.

I called him out over 3 years ago, it's surprising that it took others this long to notice.

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Post by miaow on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:26 pm

Don't really think the backup 9 is a massive issue.

Injuries happen, Wales have a good depth at 9 now but everyone else is in and around Aled's level. If you listen to posters like mikey then everything is black and white, you're either brilliant or useless. If he's trained well, and is up to speed with the game, Aled can be a great distributing 9, no question about that. I'd be more concerned about Robson coming on for England who, by all accounts, looks a talented attacking 9 but what an arena to have to come into. Might be perfect if England have a 12+ point lead in the final 10 minutes to blood him, but what if Youngs goes down in the warm-up you're left with an uncapped player having to direct play. It's clear how different Ireland are without Murray and/or Sexton and I don't doubt England would be massively upset without Youngs.

As an aside, someone mentioned earlier about Kieran Hardy. Not sure how serious they were but I really think he's in with an outside shot at a RWC place. His first season of pro Rugby and he reminds me of Tomos Williams. Could have an Aaron Smith/TJ Perenara situation in a few years' time of these two holding the 9 and 21 shirts for a good half a decade or more between them. He's already surpassed Jonathan Evans and multiple-Scotland cap Sam Hidalgo-Clyne at club level, looks to have all the basic skills and rugby nous to go all the way. Probably too soon for Japan, and in a pinch you'd probably go for Lloyd Williams or maybe Rhodri Williams, but definitely not far away.

Anyway, Gareth Davies will probably play a full 80 if it's a close game. Gatland's not a fan of taking off players unless he has to. The issue is whether GD can get to rucks quickly enough to keep the tempo up - he was criticised for that a few years ago and it's one thing Aled is probably better at, albeit service can be delayed.

The power on England's bench is disgusting though. Nothing Wales can do to compete with Genge and Cokanasiga. Tough ask for the replacements but they have to have the fear of god and the fires of hell in them if they're going to come on and make a difference.

mikey_dragon wrote:I called him out over 3 years ago, it's surprising that it took others this long to notice.

What's even more surprising is he didn't get back to you...! Whistle

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:36 pm

Anyone seen Aled ever be a good distributor at 9? No me either. Anyone see a better 9 playing in Wales right now? Yeah me too. Did anyone ever see Wainright get physically dominated when playing for Wales? Nah I didn't either.

On that note good to see Wainrights form rewarded. Very pleased for him.

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Post by No9 on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:52 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone seen Aled ever be a good distributor at 9? No me either. Anyone see a better 9 playing in Wales right now? Yeah me too. Did anyone ever see Wainright get physically dominated when playing for Wales? Nah I didn't either.

On that note good to see Wainrights form rewarded. Very pleased for him.

Well to be honest, I'm the wrong side of 50 now, carrying a few more lbs than I should, and waiting for a knee op, but I'll take my boots with me to the game on Saturday, just incase I'm needed.. OK Very Happy

But if I am to play, please ask Uncle Eddie to ask for the roof to be closed, as the draft isnt good for me at my age.. will give me a chill.. Very Happy

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Post by miaow on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:53 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone seen Aled ever be a good distributor at 9? No me either. Anyone see a better 9 playing in Wales right now? Yeah me too. Did anyone ever see Wainright get physically dominated when playing for Wales? Nah I didn't either.

"I'm so happy, cos today I've found my friends, they're in my head..."

As I said, back-up 9 isn't a massive issue and, although flawed, hopefully all Welsh fans will get behind him. There's a nasty trend for vindictive people to project their frustration and unfulfillment at rugby players - Rhys Priestland being an obvious one, Cuthbert another - in ways that literally go against the principles of being a rugby supporter.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:55 pm

No9 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone seen Aled ever be a good distributor at 9? No me either. Anyone see a better 9 playing in Wales right now? Yeah me too. Did anyone ever see Wainright get physically dominated when playing for Wales? Nah I didn't either.

On that note good to see Wainrights form rewarded. Very pleased for him.

Well to be honest, I'm the wrong side of 50 now, carrying a few more lbs than I should, and waiting for a knee op, but I'll take my boots with me to the game on Saturday, just incase I'm needed.. OK Very Happy

But if I am to play, please ask Uncle Eddie to ask for the roof to be closed, as the draft isnt good for me at my age.. will give me a chill.. Very Happy

Not only do I rate you better than him, but I also rate you better than Tavis Knoyle and Lloyd Williams. Notice a trend for poor distributors and game-managers at 9 in Wales? Sad times.

I'm also having my fourth knee op in April; I had my third back in December, which was an arthroscopy.

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Post by No9 on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 5:59 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No9 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone seen Aled ever be a good distributor at 9? No me either. Anyone see a better 9 playing in Wales right now? Yeah me too. Did anyone ever see Wainright get physically dominated when playing for Wales? Nah I didn't either.

On that note good to see Wainrights form rewarded. Very pleased for him.

Well to be honest, I'm the wrong side of 50 now, carrying a few more lbs than I should, and waiting for a knee op, but I'll take my boots with me to the game on Saturday, just incase I'm needed.. OK Very Happy

But if I am to play, please ask Uncle Eddie to ask for the roof to be closed, as the draft isnt good for me at my age.. will give me a chill.. Very Happy

Not only do I rate you better than him, but I also rate you better than Tavis Knoyle and Lloyd Williams. Notice a trend for poor distributors and game-managers at 9 in Wales? Sad times.

I'm also having my fourth knee op in April; I had my third back in December, which was an arthroscopy.

Had an arthroscopy 8 years ago.. Was told then, it could sort the problem for good, last 10 yrs or maybe last 10 wks.. Basically, no guarantee. Been lucky it lasted 8yrs, but now looks I may have to go through it again, or maybe worse, "new knee".. Waiting to see the consultant again.. Sad

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 7:29 pm

No9 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No9 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Anyone seen Aled ever be a good distributor at 9? No me either. Anyone see a better 9 playing in Wales right now? Yeah me too. Did anyone ever see Wainright get physically dominated when playing for Wales? Nah I didn't either.

On that note good to see Wainrights form rewarded. Very pleased for him.

Well to be honest, I'm the wrong side of 50 now, carrying a few more lbs than I should, and waiting for a knee op, but I'll take my boots with me to the game on Saturday, just incase I'm needed.. OK Very Happy

But if I am to play, please ask Uncle Eddie to ask for the roof to be closed, as the draft isnt good for me at my age.. will give me a chill.. Very Happy

Not only do I rate you better than him, but I also rate you better than Tavis Knoyle and Lloyd Williams. Notice a trend for poor distributors and game-managers at 9 in Wales? Sad times.

I'm also having my fourth knee op in April; I had my third back in December, which was an arthroscopy.

Had an arthroscopy 8 years ago.. Was told then, it could sort the problem for good, last 10 yrs or maybe last 10 wks.. Basically, no guarantee. Been lucky it lasted 8yrs, but now looks I may have to go through it again, or maybe worse, "new knee".. Waiting to see the consultant again.. Sad

I know where your coming from, I have had loads of problems with knees. I have had two ops on the right knee, both clear outs and one clear and two anterior cruciate ligament ops on the left. Doctor gives me about 18 months before the left one will need replacing. I have to say the surgery these days is fantastic compared to the old days, ops were 20 years apart. Arthritis is well set in now, I have really suffered this last couple of weeks, can't seem to get rid of the stiffness.

Playing at lock for the town second team against guys in their 30s when only 15 (understand the logic of that) and therefore too young for the colts side probably did not help my knees or back. As they say, if your big enough, your old enough. This is after having played for the school in the back row in the morning; what it was like to be young and able to run around all day.

Perhaps jumping up and down a lot on Saturday will help, for the England tries of course. I hope they will get well exercised.

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Post by miaow on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 11:52 pm


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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 7:02 am

miaow wrote:

Very amusing...needs updating with the last 7 results though.
England won 6 Wales won 1.

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 7:25 am

www.planetrugby.com wrote:

Prediction: An incredibly tough result to call with home field advantage, form and confidence all taken into account. The absence of Mako Vunipola is a blow to the visitors but they just seem to be on the same page this year and we expect a narrow English win. England by 3!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 8:27 am

Gatland has finally got inched I the war of words then calling Sinckler a hot head. It's all relative isn't it when you have Genge in the squad. This team does seem to have a 1 in all in mentality though. Definitely looking after each other's backs.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 8:43 am

Is he not a hot head?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 8:50 am

Seen worse front rowers. He's been doing most of the winding up this tournament!

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 8:51 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Is he not a hot head?

He is, just like Patchell was inexperienced (the comment Eddie threw out last year).

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Post by robbo277 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:11 am

Remember the last England front-row Gatland took a swing at?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/8279810/Six-Nations-2011-Warren-Gatland-says-Dylan-Hartley-could-choke-when-Wales-play-England.html

Hartley had a great game and England won on the day. So more of the same please Warren!

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Post by Poorfour on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:28 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Gatland has finally got inched I  the war of words then calling Sinckler a hot head. It's all relative isn't it when you have Genge in the squad. This team does seem to have a 1 in all in mentality though. Definitely looking after each other's backs.

Sinckler has a reputation for being a hothead, but it's not entirely deserved. He's definitely feisty, but he's improved a lot at not stepping over the line in the last year or so. Much was made of the incident in the France game - but the TMO and tv channels were bizarrely selective in what they showed and in the stadium you could see that he was reacting (and not really overreacting) to the French player having a go at his head.

The overall picture of the first couple of games is that he's been pretty adept at winding up the opposition to the point where they lose their cool. The final step - as he's admitted himself this week - is that he needs to remember that when they do, that's a win for him and he can bank it rather than react.

What's impressed me about the Sinck from his very first Quins performances is his ability to learn and adapt his play during the course of a game. There was a good example in the Lions game where he gave away a penalty that put the All Blacks ahead in the dying minutes, then got up and was instrumental in getting the penalty that tied the game. (England age grade coaches use the video clip as an example of how they want players to react to adversity).

Anyway, Gatland's comment suggests two things to me: 1) Wales (correctly) see Sinckler as a threat; 2) they are trying to set a picture for the ref; 3) it's huge motivation for Sinckler to keep his cool and prove to his Lions coach how much he's matured. The last time Gats tried something like this he branded Hartley a hothead and it didn't exactly work out, did it?

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:29 am

robbo277 wrote:Remember the last England front-row Gatland took a swing at?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/8279810/Six-Nations-2011-Warren-Gatland-says-Dylan-Hartley-could-choke-when-Wales-play-England.html

Hartley had a great game and England won on the day. So more of the same please Warren!


Gatland was full of praise for England


Q: How good are England?

WG: They’ve done pretty well in their opening two games. I thought tactically they were very good against Ireland, they’ve been direct.

They've kicked a lot and got a lot of success out of that. They get a lot of tries from kicking. Our aerial game will have to be good. We’ll have to be prepared to play some territory.

They’ve started well in this competition. I don’t think anyone knows where we are yet except for ourselves which is a nice place to be.

We didn’t start well against France in terrible weather conditions and I still question whether it was the right thing to make 10 changes against Italy.

But we got a victory where we were reasonably comfortable. We’ve trained exceptionally well in the last two weeks.

I don’t think England know which team will turn up on Saturday but we do.

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:31 am

Poorfour wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Gatland has finally got inched I  the war of words then calling Sinckler a hot head. It's all relative isn't it when you have Genge in the squad. This team does seem to have a 1 in all in mentality though. Definitely looking after each other's backs.

Sinckler has a reputation for being a hothead, but it's not entirely deserved. He's definitely feisty, but he's improved a lot at not stepping over the line in the last year or so. Much was made of the incident in the France game - but the TMO and tv channels were bizarrely selective in what they showed and in the stadium you could see that he was reacting (and not really overreacting) to the French player having a go at his head.

The overall picture of the first couple of games is that he's been pretty adept at winding up the opposition to the point where they lose their cool. The final step - as he's admitted himself this week - is that he needs to remember that when they do, that's a win for him and he can bank it rather than react.

What's impressed me about the Sinck from his very first Quins performances is his ability to learn and adapt his play during the course of a game. There was a good example in the Lions game where he gave away a penalty that put the All Blacks ahead in the dying minutes, then got up and was instrumental in getting the penalty that tied the game. (England age grade coaches use the video clip as an example of how they want players to react to adversity).

Anyway, Gatland's comment suggests two things to me: 1) Wales (correctly) see Sinckler as a threat; 2) they are trying to set a picture for the ref; 3) it's huge motivation for Sinckler to keep his cool and prove to his Lions coach how much he's matured. The last time Gats tried something like this he branded Hartley a hothead and it didn't exactly work out, did it?

A lot of praise for Mako too.

Q: What about England losing Mako Vunipola?

WG: I think he’s a massive loss. Biggest loss for them in terms of his workrate, set-piece, scrumagging, his carrying and his defence.

But I think what they might miss most is his leadership. I don’t think people realise how vocal he is, how intuitive he is in terms of reading the game. I was impressed by him on the Lions tour.

He could easily captain England and he’ll be a huge loss for them. I’m a little glad he’s not playing as I’ve got so much respect for him as a player and an individual.



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Post by Poorfour on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:41 am

Mako is a loss; but England will have to learn to play without some of their key players, because they won't get through the RWC schedule with all of their best players available.

But I think Sinckler's impact is being underrated - the passing stats higher up in the thread suggest to me that they're using him as a second receiver more than they are using their centres. When they get it right it can cause big problems for defences, because you've got a 19-stone prop who can carry and pass running at the opposing centres. You have to have two players watching him, but he's got a good enough pass to spread it wide - where you've got Slade or Daly - before the defence can drift to fill the space.

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Post by rodders on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:43 am

Interesting from Gats, I do wonder if he's already conceded this game and is entirely focused on the RWC? That isn't the strongest looking Welsh side he's picked and from past seasons he likes to go into the RWC under the radar.

From an Irish perspective a Welsh win would open the competition up a bit but an English one would give us a much better chance of second.
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:47 am

I'm going old school, defence will win the day - Wales 6 England 9
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Post by lostinwales on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:57 am

I was amused by Parkes' column. The 'I have played against Manu this year and yeah we got stomped' line.

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Post by munkian on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 9:58 am

rodders wrote:Interesting from Gats, I do wonder if he's already conceded this game and is entirely focused on the RWC? That isn't the strongest looking Welsh side he's picked and from past seasons he likes to go into the RWC under the radar.

From an Irish perspective a Welsh win would open the competition up a bit but an English one would give us a much better chance of second.

What side would be stronger considering injuries etc ? Erm
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Post by Recwatcher16 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 10:38 am

England's record away from home with a SH ref is abysmal but this is not the last round of the tournament and EJ's attention to details and subsequent tactics is currently very impressive.
It won't last but not sure this is the game where it will be challenged. A lot is being made of the kicking game but it is the forward security at set piece, tackle area/ breakdown and ball carrying that is creating the space.

Are the welsh forwards better than the irish pack ? I am not convinced and I am discounting the French performance, where their forwards were dominated.

The welsh forwards are fitter and have more turnover specialists but the English ball carriers just run at Tipuric/Navidi and bury them at the bottom of the ruck and then the breakdown rhythm becomes established, the numbers thin out and then a Tuilagi running line to bring the centres inwards and then the kick behind for the speed merchants to gather. Pretty simple and currently difficult to stop?

England played in Dublin like they were at home and if they repeat that performance and don't make mistakes for Wales to pounce, you would think the result will only go one way.

This is always my favourite game of the tournament and Gatland is a lucky coach and looking forward to seeing if there are any ambushes being planned!

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Post by munkian on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:31 am

Recwatcher16 wrote:England's record away from home with a SH ref is abysmal but this is not the last round of the tournament and EJ's attention to details and subsequent tactics is currently very impressive.
It won't last but not sure this is the game where it will be challenged. A lot is being made of the kicking game but it is the forward security at set piece, tackle area/ breakdown and ball carrying that is creating the space.

Are the welsh forwards better than the irish pack ? I am not convinced and I am discounting the French performance, where their forwards were dominated.

The welsh forwards are fitter and have more turnover specialists but the English ball carriers just run at Tipuric/Navidi and bury them at the bottom of the ruck and then the breakdown rhythm becomes established, the numbers thin out and then a Tuilagi running line to bring the centres inwards and then the kick behind for the speed merchants to gather. Pretty simple and currently difficult to stop?

England played in Dublin like they were at home and if they repeat that performance and don't make mistakes for Wales to pounce, you would think the result will only go one way.

This is always my favourite game of the tournament and Gatland is a lucky coach and looking forward to seeing if there are any ambushes being planned!

Not if you have an actual fullback part of a competent back line.

And what the hell does 'lucky coach' mean ?
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Post by robbo277 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:32 am

munkian wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:England's record away from home with a SH ref is abysmal but this is not the last round of the tournament and EJ's attention to details and subsequent tactics is currently very impressive.
It won't last but not sure this is the game where it will be challenged. A lot is being made of the kicking game but it is the forward security at set piece, tackle area/ breakdown and ball carrying that is creating the space.

Are the welsh forwards better than the irish pack ? I am not convinced and I am discounting the French performance, where their forwards were dominated.

The welsh forwards are fitter and have more turnover specialists but the English ball carriers just run at Tipuric/Navidi and bury them at the bottom of the ruck and then the breakdown rhythm becomes established, the numbers thin out and then a Tuilagi running line to bring the centres inwards and then the kick behind for the speed merchants to gather. Pretty simple and currently difficult to stop?

England played in Dublin like they were at home and if they repeat that performance and don't make mistakes for Wales to pounce, you would think the result will only go one way.

This is always my favourite game of the tournament and Gatland is a lucky coach and looking forward to seeing if there are any ambushes being planned!

Not if you actually have an actual fullback part of a competent back 3 line.

And what the hell does 'lucky coach' mean ?  

Even an actual fullback would struggle if left isolated by pushing the wingers up into the front line.

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:36 am

Liam Williams should be very familiar with Farrell at ten as they train together on a daily basis at Saracens. Hopefully his sense of positioning will be of. Higher standard than Huget or Henshaw

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:37 am

munkian wrote:...And what the hell does 'lucky coach' mean ?
That's what Gatland called himself.

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Post by munkian on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:37 am

robbo277 wrote:
munkian wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:England's record away from home with a SH ref is abysmal but this is not the last round of the tournament and EJ's attention to details and subsequent tactics is currently very impressive.
It won't last but not sure this is the game where it will be challenged. A lot is being made of the kicking game but it is the forward security at set piece, tackle area/ breakdown and ball carrying that is creating the space.

Are the welsh forwards better than the irish pack ? I am not convinced and I am discounting the French performance, where their forwards were dominated.

The welsh forwards are fitter and have more turnover specialists but the English ball carriers just run at Tipuric/Navidi and bury them at the bottom of the ruck and then the breakdown rhythm becomes established, the numbers thin out and then a Tuilagi running line to bring the centres inwards and then the kick behind for the speed merchants to gather. Pretty simple and currently difficult to stop?

England played in Dublin like they were at home and if they repeat that performance and don't make mistakes for Wales to pounce, you would think the result will only go one way.

This is always my favourite game of the tournament and Gatland is a lucky coach and looking forward to seeing if there are any ambushes being planned!

Not if you actually have an actual fullback part of a competent back 3 line.

And what the hell does 'lucky coach' mean ?  

Even an actual fullback would struggle if left isolated by pushing the wingers up into the front line.

I did say competent back line. Why would both wingers rush out of position ? A tidy back three works on a string.
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 11:51 am

munkian wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
munkian wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:England's record away from home with a SH ref is abysmal but this is not the last round of the tournament and EJ's attention to details and subsequent tactics is currently very impressive.
It won't last but not sure this is the game where it will be challenged. A lot is being made of the kicking game but it is the forward security at set piece, tackle area/ breakdown and ball carrying that is creating the space.

Are the welsh forwards better than the irish pack ? I am not convinced and I am discounting the French performance, where their forwards were dominated.

The welsh forwards are fitter and have more turnover specialists but the English ball carriers just run at Tipuric/Navidi and bury them at the bottom of the ruck and then the breakdown rhythm becomes established, the numbers thin out and then a Tuilagi running line to bring the centres inwards and then the kick behind for the speed merchants to gather. Pretty simple and currently difficult to stop?

England played in Dublin like they were at home and if they repeat that performance and don't make mistakes for Wales to pounce, you would think the result will only go one way.

This is always my favourite game of the tournament and Gatland is a lucky coach and looking forward to seeing if there are any ambushes being planned!

Not if you actually have an actual fullback part of a competent back 3 line.

And what the hell does 'lucky coach' mean ?  

Even an actual fullback would struggle if left isolated by pushing the wingers up into the front line.

I did say competent back line. Why would both wingers rush out of position ? A tidy back three works on a string.


Would they be rushing out of position? A key part of Edwards defensive strategy is that the wingers are up in the defence line not patrolling the backfield. Quite often in the past Wales have had Biggar and 1/2p dropped back when the defence rushes up. Now neither are playing but I guess we will see Anscombe and Williams doing it. We should ignore the France game as I cannot see any other team being quite as shambolic in defence, but it will be interesting to see how Wales organise their defence compared to Ireland. It seemed that Ireland were wary of the English power runners so had all defenders up which of course left space behind. Drop wingers back though and there is space to run the ball IF England can assess matters on the hoof.

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Post by munkian on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 12:03 pm

Ireland also played a centre at Fullback - his positioning was awful.

They were ambushed and France clearly didn't do any homework or give a flying toss about the game apart from their Captain and replacement 9.

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Post by BamBam on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 12:06 pm

munkian wrote:Ireland also played a centre at Fullback - his positioning was awful.  

They were ambushed and France clearly didn't do any homework or give a flying toss about the game apart from their Captain and replacement 9.


Yes, international rugby players didn't give a flying toss about the game they were playing in

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Post by munkian on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 12:08 pm

BamBam wrote:
munkian wrote:Ireland also played a centre at Fullback - his positioning was awful.  

They were ambushed and France clearly didn't do any homework or give a flying toss about the game apart from their Captain and replacement 9.


Yes, international rugby players didn't give a flying toss about the game they were playing in.



Glad you agree thumbsup
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Post by robbo277 on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 12:08 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
munkian wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
munkian wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:England's record away from home with a SH ref is abysmal but this is not the last round of the tournament and EJ's attention to details and subsequent tactics is currently very impressive.
It won't last but not sure this is the game where it will be challenged. A lot is being made of the kicking game but it is the forward security at set piece, tackle area/ breakdown and ball carrying that is creating the space.

Are the welsh forwards better than the irish pack ? I am not convinced and I am discounting the French performance, where their forwards were dominated.

The welsh forwards are fitter and have more turnover specialists but the English ball carriers just run at Tipuric/Navidi and bury them at the bottom of the ruck and then the breakdown rhythm becomes established, the numbers thin out and then a Tuilagi running line to bring the centres inwards and then the kick behind for the speed merchants to gather. Pretty simple and currently difficult to stop?

England played in Dublin like they were at home and if they repeat that performance and don't make mistakes for Wales to pounce, you would think the result will only go one way.

This is always my favourite game of the tournament and Gatland is a lucky coach and looking forward to seeing if there are any ambushes being planned!

Not if you actually have an actual fullback part of a competent back 3 line.

And what the hell does 'lucky coach' mean ?  

Even an actual fullback would struggle if left isolated by pushing the wingers up into the front line.

I did say competent back line. Why would both wingers rush out of position ? A tidy back three works on a string.


Would they be rushing out of position? A key part of Edwards defensive strategy is that the wingers are up in the defence line not patrolling the backfield. Quite often in the past Wales have had Biggar and 1/2p dropped back when the defence rushes up. Now neither are playing but I guess we will see Anscombe and Williams doing it. We should ignore the France game as I cannot see any other team being quite as shambolic in defence, but it will be interesting to see how Wales organise their defence compared to Ireland. It seemed that Ireland were wary of the English power runners so had all defenders up which of course left space behind. Drop wingers back though and there is space to run the ball IF England can assess matters on the hoof.

This basically. Pendulum back 3's are apparently out of fashion. Ireland left Henshaw isolated in the backfield, as France did with Huget (who often himself went missing, which compounded the issue). These weren't wingers rushing out of position, these were deliberate ploys to strengthen the front line defence.

Wales may decide to strengthen the backfield and play pendulum or drop their 10 back there as well, but I think if they play a similar pattern to how Ireland played they'll struggle, even with an actual 15 in there.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 22 Feb 2019, 12:09 pm

munkian wrote:Ireland also played a centre at Fullback - his positioning was awful.  

They were ambushed and France clearly didn't do any homework or give a flying toss about the game apart from their Captain and replacement 9.


I think Henshaw's positioning was made to look worse because he was having to cover the whole width on his own.

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