The Build to England’s Summer of Cricket

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 13 Feb 2019, 11:25 am

First topic message reminder :

It’s a little early for separate World Cup and Ashes threads, but with the Windies giving England less wins than they might have liked, what confidence had been gained from Sri Lanka has been drained.

If anything, it feels like there were less questions in summer than there are now, with the top three even less secure, Curran’s away showings looking unconvincing so far and some questions around  places for Bairstow, Foakes and pace of Wood or similar. 

There’s also a World Cup coming, a home World Cup, something England have been building towards for quite some time. They’re a very good team, maybe better than any England World Cup team, but there’s a few issues.

It’s also worth noting opponents, although I can’t see anyone getting more discussion than the Aussies. They’ve recovered from defeat to win a home series against a very weak Sri Lanka. Their tails are up, and they could welcome back their two bets batsmen. Could, as morals might well make that a little difficult. They don’t have many here, though, so it will depend just how much of a tit Warner is in the meantime.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 07 May 2019, 12:32 am

I like Joe Root in T20s, personally. Currently the 21st best T20 batsmen in the world, if the ICC rankings are to be believed. A strike rate of 126 is pretty good, and I think he's tried to expand his range of attacking shots over the last year.

I also like the 11/2 available on England beating Pakistan 5-0 in the ODI series. Provided the weather remains fine!

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Post by eirebilly on Tue 07 May 2019, 7:14 am

I do like Root but I just do not see him as a T20 player. He is very much more in the mould of Test and ODI players for me.

You can afford to anchor ends in ODI's with a strike rate of 126 but in T20 that strike rate for a top class batsmen is too low for me and puts pressure on his team mates to take more risks.

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 07 May 2019, 8:06 am

Duty281 wrote:I like Joe Root in T20s, personally. Currently the 21st best T20 batsmen in the world, if the ICC rankings are to be believed. A strike rate of 126 is pretty good, and I think he's tried to expand his range of attacking shots over the last year.

I also like the 11/2 available on England beating Pakistan 5-0 in the ODI series. Provided the weather remains fine!

I'm going tomorrow - the weather forecast is not good. Not good at all!

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Post by Afro on Tue 07 May 2019, 9:34 am

I like having Root in the side. He still scores quickly enough and having his style alongside the power hitters. Keeps the strike rotated and the bowlers having to vary lines and length.

A strike rate of 126 still scores 378. Shows how England have raised the bar that 378 is judged as not enough
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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 07 May 2019, 9:56 am

I used to think the same as Billy but I believe Root adds so much experience to the side. He can score quickly if needed. There are enough specialist big hitters to compliment him nicely. I'm pretty sure no opposing team would ever underestimate him. He's tougher than he looks... or should I say "used to look" say 5-6 years ago. Full of grit and determination and also a classy stroke player.
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Post by Duty281 on Tue 07 May 2019, 4:40 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I like Joe Root in T20s, personally. Currently the 21st best T20 batsmen in the world, if the ICC rankings are to be believed. A strike rate of 126 is pretty good, and I think he's tried to expand his range of attacking shots over the last year.

I also like the 11/2 available on England beating Pakistan 5-0 in the ODI series. Provided the weather remains fine!

I'm going tomorrow - the weather forecast is not good. Not good at all!

Yeah it doesn't look brilliant, but it seems to be clearing away in the afternoon/evening. Might be a delayed start.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/se11

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Post by eirebilly on Wed 08 May 2019, 7:50 am

Pal Joey wrote:I used to think the same as Billy but I believe Root adds so much experience to the side. He can score quickly if needed. There are enough specialist big hitters to compliment him nicely. I'm pretty sure no opposing team would ever underestimate him. He's tougher than he looks... or should I say "used to look" say 5-6 years ago. Full of grit and determination and also a classy stroke player.

Oh he does add experience to sides but I feel he is more a ODI and test player. I just feel he lacks the power game to be a top T20 player.
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Post by Pal Joey on Wed 08 May 2019, 9:17 am

eirebilly wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:I used to think the same as Billy but I believe Root adds so much experience to the side. He can score quickly if needed. There are enough specialist big hitters to compliment him nicely. I'm pretty sure no opposing team would ever underestimate him. He's tougher than he looks... or should I say "used to look" say 5-6 years ago. Full of grit and determination and also a classy stroke player.

Oh he does add experience to sides but I feel he is more a ODI and test player. I just feel he lacks the power game to be a top T20 player.

Fair enough. I know what you mean.

I had similar doubts about Steve Smith in T20 a few years back. However, they both play additional important roles in their respective teams.
They also both know how to keep the scoreboard moving with more deft shots and both can pick the ones to get belted.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 May 2019, 11:59 am

Duty281 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I like Joe Root in T20s, personally. Currently the 21st best T20 batsmen in the world, if the ICC rankings are to be believed. A strike rate of 126 is pretty good, and I think he's tried to expand his range of attacking shots over the last year.

I also like the 11/2 available on England beating Pakistan 5-0 in the ODI series. Provided the weather remains fine!

I'm going tomorrow - the weather forecast is not good. Not good at all!

Yeah it doesn't look brilliant, but it seems to be clearing away in the afternoon/evening. Might be a delayed start.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/se11

Seems the rain has absolutely saturated the ground, and I doubt there'll be any play before 3 (meant to start at 1). Still, the worst of it has passed.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 08 May 2019, 12:29 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:I used to think the same as Billy but I believe Root adds so much experience to the side. He can score quickly if needed. There are enough specialist big hitters to compliment him nicely. I'm pretty sure no opposing team would ever underestimate him. He's tougher than he looks... or should I say "used to look" say 5-6 years ago. Full of grit and determination and also a classy stroke player.

Oh he does add experience to sides but I feel he is more a ODI and test player. I just feel he lacks the power game to be a top T20 player.

Fair enough. I know what you mean.

I had similar doubts about Steve Smith in T20 a few years back. However, they both play additional important roles in their respective teams.
They also both know how to keep the scoreboard moving with more deft shots and both can pick the ones to get belted.

The same allegation could be leveled at Kane Williamson.

Root perhaps is struggling a little now due to playing so much less T20 cricket than many of his peers. It should be remembered that he was our best batter at the 2016 T20 WC, with the innings against SA best showcasing his skills. At the end of that tournament he was ranked 4th in the world.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 May 2019, 2:25 pm

We're off. 47 overs a side, Pakistan batting first.

Archer has a wicket with his 90MPH+ seam. A nation breathes.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 08 May 2019, 3:01 pm

Averaging 90.5mph in the jest four overs, I read.

Can imagine David Willey is planning what to tell Morgan at the break, what feelings have been hurt by Jofra’s unnecessary attitude to speed

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Post by Afro on Wed 08 May 2019, 3:03 pm

4 overs.

6 runs.

1 wicket.

Average over 90mph

That's staking a claim!
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 May 2019, 3:04 pm

Afro wrote:4 overs.

6 runs.

1 wicket.

Average over 90mph

That's staking a claim!

Particularly when Plunkett has conceded eight runs off his opening over!

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Post by Afro on Wed 08 May 2019, 3:10 pm

Whether you agree with him playing or not, he's exciting to watch!

I'm now dreaming of him playing in the Ashes and doing to Oz what Mitchell Johnson did to us in 2013/14
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 May 2019, 3:18 pm

Afro wrote:Whether you agree with him playing or not, he's exciting to watch!

I'm now dreaming of him playing in the Ashes and doing to Oz what Mitchell Johnson did to us in 2013/14

Thing is, his first class record is much much better than his list A record - and those who have watched him regularly say he's usually much better with the red than the white ball...and with those 5 tests in such a short time frame, hard not too see him getting a go if he is fit!

Denly is the one to watch today - his place must be under threat from the in form Dawson
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 May 2019, 3:31 pm

Down comes the hail, off go the players. Could be a lengthy stoppage, though not a terminal one.

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Post by Afro on Wed 08 May 2019, 3:32 pm

His first class record achieves what I think is required to be truly considered an all-rounder too.

Which is a bowling average lower than the batting average
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 May 2019, 4:50 pm

80/2 after 19, but more rain.

Still looks as though we'll get a game in (have to be finished by 21:15), but it'll be closer to a 20-over game than a 50-over one.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 08 May 2019, 5:37 pm

If it's reduced to a 20-over game, England can have 1 over of Stokes to try and keep the score down (all the other pacers have bowled 4 or more). Then what do we think the target would be if they were 90-2 after 20? 120? 130?

Assuming the pitch hasn't changed too much and with this line-up you'd back England in a T20 chase of 130 at a bit of a canter.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 May 2019, 5:45 pm

I think it'd be around 120/130. I still feel the side batting first are unfairly disadvantaged by DLS.

Anyway, it looks as though more rain is incoming, so earlier optimism might have been misplaced.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 08 May 2019, 6:12 pm

If at the 6pm inspection we were fit to play and the umpires said "come out at 6:10pm", would they be able to reduce a game to a 20-over game at that stage, if they felt there was more rain on the way? I don't believe they can, but it's something I've always puzzled over.

The BBC live text have just said play needs to be underway by 19:45 to get a 20 over game in and play can go on until 21:15. So they've given us 90 minutes to get 21 overs in with an innings change, which seems fair.

But if we started playing at 6:10pm with an extra 95 minutes, we could play a 30 over game.

If Pakistan batted those 30 overs and then England got 10 overs into a reply before the rain came back, you'd have a situation where there was obviously bad weather about, you got 40 overs of batting but no result, which would be less good for the paying public.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 May 2019, 6:21 pm

That's a very good point, and I don't think umpires can proactively reduce the number of overs if they believe more rain is on the way.

And it is raining again at the Oval, so it looks as though this will be called off. At least Archer bowled a few good overs.

Match abandoned!

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 08 May 2019, 8:16 pm

A lot of frustration for me and friends at the Oval but probably even more beers to try and drown it out! Wink Ale

Certainly impressed by Archer. Very fast and accurate in his 4 over opening spell. A shame we didn't get to see more.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 08 May 2019, 9:17 pm

robbo277 wrote:If it's reduced to a 20-over game, England can have 1 over of Stokes to try and keep the score down (all the other pacers have bowled 4 or more). Then what do we think the target would be if they were 90-2 after 20? 120? 130?

Assuming the pitch hasn't changed too much and with this line-up you'd back England in a T20 chase of 130 at a bit of a canter.

They had this discussion on Sky with Isa Guha stating that the info from the statistician was the par score would be 144 in that exact scenario.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 09 May 2019, 5:25 pm

Joe Clarke currently on an England selection blacklist according to Atherton in his article on social media and the modern player.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 May 2019, 8:55 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/09/joe-root-tests-ball-selectors

Interesting.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 10 May 2019, 7:33 am

LondonTiger wrote:Joe Clarke currently on an England selection blacklist according to Atherton in his article on social media and the modern player.

Yep Dobell also reported this a week or so ago, him and Kohler-Cadmore both not going to be selected as punishment for their involvement in the Alex Hepburn case, and having read the WhatsApp messages I can’t say I disagree despite how clearly talented Clarke is. Definitely deserves punishment
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 10 May 2019, 9:59 am

Lots of examples of good leadership in that article. Broad seems a decent type

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 10 May 2019, 10:39 am

Broad is, and always has been a good egg. Hilariously funny cricketer too.

And I have to say I am glad they are using those old balls too - the last two summers have seen excellent cricket, and great test matches, and the conditions (of which the ball was a huge part) played a big part in that.

Nobody wants to see Shaun Marsh grinding out 141 (367) anyways
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 10 May 2019, 11:21 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Nobody wants to see Shaun Marsh grinding out 141 (367) anyways

Perhaps only Geoff (Marsh not Boycott)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 11 May 2019, 10:01 am

Jofra to be rested today apparently

The fact they’re managing his workload, suggests to me at least they’ve got big plans for him all summer, not just the World Cup
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 10:22 am

Sounds a bit odd to rest Archer, but I guess it was planned in this manner before the series started.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 10:35 am

Pakistan fielding first after winning the toss. Bit odd, because the pitch looks a belter and the sun is out.

Looks like the sort of wicket where England will rack up 350+.

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Post by JDizzle on Sat 11 May 2019, 10:42 am

Don’t think it is much a secret England love chasing any more, so think Pakistan are reacting to that. They could regret it in a few hours time though...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 12:13 pm

96/0 after 16. Absolute cruise control on a pitch doing nothing. Only saving grace for Pakistan, presently, is the boundaries are decently-sized and the outfield isn't the quickest.

Roy looks like he needs time in the middle, so this is a good exercise for him.

170/1 after 28.4. Unexpected rain takes England off the field and halts their charge.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 May 2019, 1:11 pm

Just come home from a works do to see the covers come on...

Questions : no Archer ? Seems odd. Is this (with Roy and Moeen back) the preferred WC XI ?

Decent first 28.4 overs ...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 1:16 pm

I think from 1-7 that this is England's preferred WC team, the rest is still up for grabs.

Archer's being rested or rotated, probably a move planned pre-series, as I can't imagine the four overs the other day taxed him too much!

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 1:32 pm

alfie wrote:Just come home from a works do to see the covers come on...

Questions : no Archer ? Seems odd.  Is this (with Roy and Moeen back) the preferred WC XI ?

Decent first 28.4 overs ...

Hi Alfie - Atherton's take on ''no Archer'' is that the England selectors have already decided he is good enough and ready enough for the World Cup.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 1:41 pm

Hmmm. Having got as fas he did, can't help feeling Roy has left some runs out there. Looked like he felt the same as he went off.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 May 2019, 1:51 pm

Roy didn't look happy , did he ? Decent return to the team , anyway.

Looks like a pitch full of runs.

Will wait and see re the Archer issue : if the selectors have indeed decided he is "in" they have done so on the basis of a very small sample ! Yes he looks good : but he has hardly been tested yet and has not had to bowl a full ten overs in an International . I'd like to see a bit more thanks...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 1:51 pm

Could do with Root upping the tempo; plenty of explosive batting to come, only 16 overs left.

Need to get beyond 350 and put Pakistan out of the game.

Morgan looking in excellent touch.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:24 pm

Morgan and Buttler carving the bowlers up nicely...

Not sure I'd read too much into these practice games : Pakistan (admittedly short of a few first choices) were totally thumped by Australia and really don't look much at all so far. I know they have a record of producing magic out of the blue but I'm not seeing it this year.
Will be interesting to see the England bowlers on this flat pitch ; one of the reasons I'd like to have seen Archer in this game since this is the sort of pitch that will allegedly need his extra pace.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:34 pm

Buttler seems to have a knack of getting bowlers to bowl rubbish to him Smile

In truth he has such a range of shots it is hard for anyone to know where to bowl ! But he does seem to attract more than his fair share of bad balls to swat away...

Morgan not exactly overshadowed here with 50 off 34. clap

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:42 pm

alfie wrote:Roy didn't look happy , did he ?  Decent return to the team , anyway.

Looks like a pitch full of runs.

Will wait and see re the Archer issue : if the selectors have indeed decided he is "in" they have done so on the basis of a very small sample !   Yes he looks good : but he has hardly been tested yet and has not had to bowl a full ten overs in an International .  I'd like to see a bit more thanks...

Yeah, I was surprised by Atherton's comments on the selectors having already decided in Archer's favour. Athers is normally more careful and reserved than that, something I like about him in contrast to certain rent a quote pundits. It did make me wonder if Athers had some inside info.

That said, Archer was undoubtedly impressive at the Oval.

I had hoped to see Tom Curran play today. Missing out on the first two games doesn't make his chances of a WC place look great - as regulars will know, I rate him quite highly in the 50 over format.

Meanwhile, 299/3 off 45. 350 is certainly still on if Morgan and Buttler go on.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:47 pm

Atherton is one of the best pundits around and usually very well informed.

Interesting that Broad mentioned Archer playing in the Ashes.

I think Archer and Wood are being lined up to share the pace duties over the summer.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:52 pm

Jos Buttler is just ridiculous.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:54 pm

Will be well over 350...

Hasan looks the best of the Pakistan bowlers ; but he's not in the class of the two Ws . Buttler hitting sixes for fun - might get his hundred at this rate !

On the fast bowler thing : I suspect we might see both Archer and Wood at some point in the Ashes Series ; but that is a long way off at the moment . Certainly England appear to have plenty of injury cover...

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:56 pm

On guildford's point : Tom Curran has arguably been harshly treated if he's being sidelined without a trial : he's been in excellent form and would probably be in my 15 .
Will he get a decent chance in the remaining games ?

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:57 pm

Root's wicket was a good one for England - it allowed Buttler to step up and demolish the Pakistani attack.

Pakistan paying the price for a very negative decision at the toss. Hope the World Cup doesn't see too many placid pitches like this one.

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