The Build to England’s Summer of Cricket

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 13 Feb 2019, 11:25 am

First topic message reminder :

It’s a little early for separate World Cup and Ashes threads, but with the Windies giving England less wins than they might have liked, what confidence had been gained from Sri Lanka has been drained.

If anything, it feels like there were less questions in summer than there are now, with the top three even less secure, Curran’s away showings looking unconvincing so far and some questions around  places for Bairstow, Foakes and pace of Wood or similar. 

There’s also a World Cup coming, a home World Cup, something England have been building towards for quite some time. They’re a very good team, maybe better than any England World Cup team, but there’s a few issues.

It’s also worth noting opponents, although I can’t see anyone getting more discussion than the Aussies. They’ve recovered from defeat to win a home series against a very weak Sri Lanka. Their tails are up, and they could welcome back their two bets batsmen. Could, as morals might well make that a little difficult. They don’t have many here, though, so it will depend just how much of a tit Warner is in the meantime.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 May 2019, 2:59 pm

Jos gets to his hundred with a six ...inevitably Smile

What was that : second fifty in eighteen balls ?

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 3:43 pm

alfie wrote:Will be well over 350...

Hasan looks the best of the Pakistan bowlers ; but he's not in the class of the two Ws .  Buttler hitting sixes for fun - might get his hundred at this rate !

On the fast bowler thing : I suspect we might see both Archer and Wood at some point in the Ashes Series ; but that is a long way off at the moment . Certainly England appear to have plenty of injury cover...

At 47 overs, I was even wondering if we might reach 380. Would have done as well without a comparatively tight final over. Still, 373 should be ample - serious questions if not.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 4:33 pm

Well if England don't defend this, Archer's reputation will improve even further!

As it is, Pakistan are going along neatly at 84/0 after 13.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 5:44 pm

208/1 after 31. Where's your money, Duty? I would still back England but it's nothing like as comfortable as it seemed at the interval.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 5:52 pm

Would have to back Pakistan from here. Still got plenty of batting to come, and England's bowling looks toothless. Zaman playing a blinder.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 5:58 pm

Zaman falls unluckily. Think it'll be hard for the other batsmen to keep it going. If England can snatch another quick wicket, it'll look a very different game than a short while ago.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 6:03 pm

And Babar goes straight away, caught and bowled off a dreadful ball from Rashid. Two new batsmen at the crease and an injection of confidence for England.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 7:04 pm

Looks like I gave Pakistan a good jinx!

They're still in it, but it's very much a hanging-on still in it.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 May 2019, 7:19 pm

England win by 12 runs. If you don't choose to bat first on that deck, you're always starting on the back foot.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 11 May 2019, 7:50 pm

Been out all day, but glad to see that Jos Buttler is still ridiculous
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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 May 2019, 8:00 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Been out all day, but glad to see that Jos Buttler is still ridiculous

He was utterly ridiculous. A tad concerning though as to how the game would have gone if he hadn't been.

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Post by alfie on Sun 12 May 2019, 7:49 am

Having turned in at 54/0 (and I must say I suspected then that Pakistan might make something of a game of it ) I've just watched the replay...
England's death bowling much better than the tourists'. (Apart from that ill-advised Rashid venture : really fear that sort of trick is only going to come off occasionally ) Willey often thought of as a big risk in the late overs did the job this time ...and Plunkett once again hot wickets when needed...

Not sure you could say the same for some the earlier stuff. Spinners
were disappointing , I thought. And on today's showing , if Archer were to come in , he'd be replacing Woakes...which seems crazy.
To be honest , I do think that - considering only three fast bowlers will play at a time - the logical choice for variety of options is to leave out one of Woakes , Wood or Archer. Good luck with that.

I do think it is a pity Archer missed this game. Was surely an opportunity to see if he really does provide something essential in these thankless bowling tasks of facing strong hitters on small grounds and flat pitches. Wonder what combination of bowlers will play game three ? Archer , Wood and Curran , perhaps ? Will Jordan see any action at all ?
Maybe they will just dump Denly or Vince and pick all the fast bowlers...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 12 May 2019, 8:49 am

Having too many good players/bowlers is certainly not the worst problem to have, and this is why the selectors earn healthy salaries!

I would say though, that with the time left, there is always the chance an unfortunately timed injury could make the decision for them though. (I am looking at Mark Wood, who I'm not sure has bowled yet this summer?)
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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 12 May 2019, 10:26 am

alfie wrote:Having turned in at 54/0 (and I must say I suspected then that Pakistan might make something of a game of it ) I've just watched the replay...
England's death bowling much better than the tourists'. (Apart from that ill-advised Rashid venture : really fear that sort of trick is only going to come off occasionally ) Willey often thought of as a big risk in the late overs did the job this time ...and Plunkett once again hot wickets when needed...

Not sure you could say the same for some the earlier stuff. Spinners
were disappointing , I thought. And on today's showing , if Archer were to come in , he'd be replacing Woakes...which seems crazy.
To be honest , I do think that - considering only three fast bowlers will play at a time - the logical choice for variety of options is to leave out one of Woakes , Wood or Archer. Good luck with that.

I do think it is a pity Archer missed this game. Was surely an opportunity to see if he really does provide something essential in these thankless bowling tasks of facing strong hitters on small grounds and flat pitches.  Wonder what combination of bowlers will play game three ?  Archer , Wood and Curran , perhaps ? Will Jordan see any action at all ?
Maybe they will just dump Denly or Vince and pick all the fast bowlers...

Hi Alfie - yes, I was surprisingly impressed by Willey and Plunkett at the death. They both bowled well then and did the job required.

The female commentator on Sky (Isha someone) kept repeating in the build up to the closing overs that it was too tight to call but it would be England's game if Archer were playing. I thought that was exceptionally banal and stupid. It would have been England's game if Archer had been playing AND IF he was bowling as well and as effectively he did at the Oval. We had no way of knowing that would have been the case. Keep in mind as well that I like Archer a lot and was mightily impressed by him at the Oval - however, 4 overs doesn't make a World Cup win! He still needs to do more and, of course, needs to be provided with the opportunity to do so.

I struggle to see Jordan being anything more than second reserve atm. I've seen him bowl once this season - at Hove on Good Friday against Surrey in a RL 50 game. He was on the expensive side and wasn't given his full allocation of 10 overs. Several wides as well. Wonderful fielder though. As well as his catching and diving stops, I hadn't noticed before how quickly he's onto the ball to prevent a single off his own bowling when the batsman dabs it. Almost certainly the best twelfth man we could have but doubt that we will get him a WC squad place.

Btw, not often I side with Vaughan but I understood why he was singing Dawson's praises the other day and suggesting him for at least a squad place over Denly. Dawson's record in the 50 over format and especially this season is top notch - just ask JimboH, he'll give you the figures in his sleep. Dawson absolutely took Surrey to the cleaners with bat and ball the other day, albeit not the steepest of challenges atm.

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Post by dummy_half on Sun 12 May 2019, 1:04 pm

Best quote I saw about yesterday's game was 'The more England play, the better Archer gets...'

Really good effort from Pakistan to get so close with the bat, but as so often when chasing 350+ it's the loss of wickets that does for you in the end - just have a few stutters in the scoring rate after a wicket drops and suddenly you're too far behind (unless you have a Buttler-type ball striker).

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 13 May 2019, 1:10 pm

The Archer thing is odd.

They didn't call him up to the original squad because they didn't want to annoy anyone and wanted him to earn his way in.

He plays a couple of T20s and gets through 4 (good) overs with the new ball in the first ODI and then gets rested for the second game.

I don't see how that means he's a shoo-in for the squad as some are reporting. If you couldn't put him in the original squad, how have you seen enough now?

I'd like to see him get through a set of 10. I would have liked to see him in the original squad tbh, but if they're going to promote him then I'd like to see a little bit more before they do.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 May 2019, 1:15 pm

Archer and Rashid to be rested for the 3rd ODI, Denly gets his chance to stake his claim

On the Archer thing, and people saying "how can they have seen enough" - they've had their eyes on him for ages, he's been training with the squad, done well in his albeit limited gametime, and lets not forget they literally altered their qualification rules for him...would be more shocking if he was left out imo than included just based on the qualification thing alone!

On the rest thing...he did spend his whole winter touring various franchise leagues - so didn't get the traditional "time off" many others do...so they might just be managing his workload a tad more.

Hoping that Curran gets a game tomorrow - like Guildford and others, I think he is a very good option, and deserves a shot at uprooting a Plunkett/Willey
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Post by robbo277 on Mon 13 May 2019, 5:37 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Archer and Rashid to be rested for the 3rd ODI, Denly gets his chance to stake his claim

On the Archer thing, and people saying "how can they have seen enough" - they've had their eyes on him for ages, he's been training with the squad, done well in his albeit limited gametime, and lets not forget they literally altered their qualification rules for him...would be more shocking if he was left out imo than included just based on the qualification thing alone!

On the rest thing...he did spend his whole winter touring various franchise leagues - so didn't get the traditional "time off" many others do...so they might just be managing his workload a tad more.

Hoping that Curran gets a game tomorrow - like Guildford and others, I think he is a very good option, and deserves a shot at uprooting a Plunkett/Willey

This is fine. I would have put him in my original 15 man squad, and had England done that I 100% agree with what you say there.

But they put him on the standby list with a chance to play himself in. The only issue is they haven't really given him that chance to play himself in. They've given him a token amount of overs and then said that's enough.

It's fine if they bring him into the squad, I would prefer him to be in. But I'm not sure who they think they're fooling keeping him out for an extra month. Unless they've told the bowlers in the squad that one of them is on the way out and they're in a bowl-off for their position? Which would be an odd way of doing things.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 13 May 2019, 5:39 pm

It's great that Archer has bowled at a consistent pace that no other England player can because it takes away any real question within the squad about whether he deserves a place or if there's been disloyalty to others.
Plunkett had lost his best, Willey was never really good enough. Woakes hasn't yet woken up post surgery. They need this point if difference in the attack. Let's not call him an all rounder though, he's rarely passed 50 in any format. Stokes, Woakes and Moeen are capable of batting top 7, Archer really isn't.
It's good to see CurranT get a go too, he's probably much more of an outsider though. I'd be surprised to see them ditch Plunkett and Willey, there's a lot of permutations to the go so squad but there's few indications that they are ready to make serious changes tongue core group that's taken them through the last 4 years of success

Denly really needs a performance to press his case. I do think he's be an excellent addition to the squad covering second spinner/allrounder and top order bat...but he's yet to show he has it in an England shirt.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 13 May 2019, 6:41 pm

I'd prefer to see Archer play more games and build up his experience and rhythm rather than being rested. He's only bowled 133 overs in List A cricket over a near three-year career and played a mere three international games.

Anyway, tomorrow's game is at Bristol. That's tiny Bristol with tiny boundaries, so except heaps and heaps of runs - England make 369 the last time they were here for an ODI.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 13 May 2019, 6:46 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'd prefer to see Archer play more games and build up his experience and rhythm rather than being rested. He's only bowled 133 overs in List A cricket over a near three-year career and played a mere three international games.

Anyway, tomorrow's game is at Bristol. That's tiny Bristol with tiny boundaries, so except heaps and heaps of runs - England make 369 the last time they were here for an ODI.

Lets just hope they don’t go on any nights out after the game in Bristol this time...
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 13 May 2019, 9:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/may/13/jonathan-agnew-row-with-journalist-bbc

Aggers goes tonto.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 14 May 2019, 1:29 pm

Always amuses me when these subcontinent flat track bullies rock up with these inflated averages. The ex Pakistani players on commentary keep talking about Zaman, Imam and Azam averaging over 50, yet fail to mention their stats are propped up by minnow bashing Zimbabwe.

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Post by jimbohammers on Tue 14 May 2019, 3:03 pm

On current form should Stokes be in this side?

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 14 May 2019, 3:08 pm

His white ball bowling has always been pretty weak

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 14 May 2019, 3:17 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:His white ball bowling has always been pretty weak

Agnew or Stokes?


As for Stokes he hasn't exactly been asked to do much in the recent ODIs so its hard to make any claims to his form. He gets in the side batting up the order and as a spare bowler, plus one of the best fielders in the squad. He maybe didn't have the best IPL and has been patchy for the last year after all his off field drama (despite claiming its the "best thing that ever happened to me") but theres zero threat to his place especially with Woakes looking off too.
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Post by James100 on Tue 14 May 2019, 4:02 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Always amuses me when these subcontinent flat track bullies rock up with these inflated averages. The ex Pakistani players on commentary keep talking about Zaman, Imam and Azam averaging over 50, yet fail to mention their stats are propped up by minnow bashing Zimbabwe.

chin

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 14 May 2019, 4:14 pm

Interesting that stokes and Ali are down to come in ahead of Morgan today - very much a “you guys need to have a bat” selection...can’t say I disagree tbf - both do!
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Post by king_carlos on Tue 14 May 2019, 4:40 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Interesting that stokes and Ali are down to come in ahead of Morgan today - very much a “you guys need to have a bat” selection...can’t say I disagree tbf - both do!
I noticed that as well, Olly.

Possible that it's also an attempt to try someone other than Buttler in that 'finisher' role at 6.

England will have a challenge chasing this total, likely around 350, without Buttler anchoring the middle order. Small boundaries though so if any of the top 6 get going there are runs to be had.


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Post by Afro on Tue 14 May 2019, 4:48 pm

Eoin Morgan as much as said it in his interview at the toss was to give them more time in the middle
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Post by king_carlos on Tue 14 May 2019, 4:56 pm

Outstanding grab from David Willey there. A good recovery after the first ball going for 6 as well.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 14 May 2019, 5:56 pm

Should be an absolute cruise for England to chase this down.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 14 May 2019, 6:45 pm

Roy and Bairstow are indeed cruising at the moment.

145-0 after 16 overs

The bowlers must feel like small the boundaries are shrinking even smaller at the moment.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 14 May 2019, 6:54 pm

Not helped at all by what has been an utterly village display of fielding too!
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Post by king_carlos on Tue 14 May 2019, 6:59 pm

That's a very ugly shot by Roy to end a destructive innings.

The Pakistan fielding has been abysmal at times, you do have to feel for their seamers.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 14 May 2019, 7:32 pm

Stokes and Ali will need to open the batting in the next ODI if they want to get more practice in!

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Post by VTR on Tue 14 May 2019, 8:54 pm

Denly gets one over and still not sent in to bat. What is the actual point of picking him?

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 14 May 2019, 8:58 pm

VTR wrote:Denly gets one over and still not sent in to bat. What is the actual point of picking him?

Dobell suggesting he could be ditched and replaced by Dawson. Gets my vote and JimboH's.

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Post by VTR on Tue 14 May 2019, 9:09 pm

Yes I can see that. Morgan, or someone in charge obviously doesn't rate him. No point in a place in the squad if so. Think Dawson is a better pick personally.

As for this match England made that look easy helped by some truly abject fielding. I really hope they aren't storing up their once every ten games or so 20-5 for the semi or final of the World Cup!

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Tue 14 May 2019, 9:52 pm

Brutal display of big hitting by England.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 15 May 2019, 12:05 am

Yeah nice win by England, but I despise these sorts of ODIs. Absolutely nothing in it for the bowler. Everything weighted for the batsman. A ceaseless procession of boundaries. Just absolutely no fun in it. Had England batted first, 500 would have been made. Indeed, I expect 500 to be made at the upcoming World Cup by at least one team.

Nottingham next - expect 400+ if England bat first.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 15 May 2019, 3:25 am

You have to laugh somewhat at England chasing down 350+ with 5 overs to spare while changing the batting order around to give a couple of guys a chance to actually have a bat... To be fair, Stokes and Moeen both got a decent hit in (Stokes you have to say unlucky with his dismissal) so it worked in that regard.

I see a couple of comments about Stokes's place in the side. I did some stats a while ago (during the WI tour), and Stokes's record as a number 5 bat is excellent: since the last WC he matches all the other guys who bat at 5-6 in terms of average, SR, number of 50s/100s, etc. The only person with markedly better stats is... Buttler. Now if England had two Buttlers obviously that would be a whole other problem, but thankfully for other sides, they don't Wink. His bowling is hot and cold, and on the expensive side, but allows England to have six main bowling options. And obviously he's a great fielder.

England still have a conundrum on the bowling front. Plunkett has done better in the last couple of games. Woakes looked more back to his old self here. Willey has had one pretty good game followed by a pretty poor one. Curran did OK (eco rate quite high but as a death bowler that's to be expected) without setting the world alight. Archer obviously impressive, but had the best conditions and only four overs. Wood yet to be seen in action. One of these misses out. My feeling is that it will be one of Willey and Curran, but that England aren't yet decided on which it will be.

The other question is on Denly. I think what we've seen so far is that Morgan doesn't quite trust his bowling in the longer ODIs, and it's not really hard to see why. For me he's a bit too loose, which means batting sides can milk the good balls (which aren't all that threatening), and put away the bad ones. You have to ask if England would really be happy with him coming in to replace Moeen if the latter gets injured (which is surely his main role in the squad?). Probably not on current evidence. So Dawson (bang in form) instead makes sense.

Anyway, in the last couple of games I'd like to see more of Archer. In particular I'd like to see if he can come back as impressively for second and third spells, and if he can keep his speeds up in those. Vince could probably do with a couple of decent knocks too, just in case. Maybe try out the option of Roy-Vince up top with Bairstow in the middle-order and keeping as a back-up to a Buttler injury? (though maybe that's what they were going for in this one with Denly)

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 15 May 2019, 6:56 am

Agree MFC ..what this game has shown is that England have a ridiculously strong batting line up even without Hales and Buttler. I think we pretty much knew that anyway but this will be good for confidence.
It was also good they gave Stokes a go up the order to be involved in the game more. You echoed the point I made earlier, judge him on his batting and fielding and the balance he brings to the side not on his bowling stats. He's a vital part of the side and difficult to replace.
The bowling hasn't been a strong point for England and wasn't yesterday. But that's without Archer and Rashid, arguably the two best attacking options they have. I'm glad to see Woakes get some wickets, it's much needed, and Moeen managed to be economical which is very much his job.
It was disappointing that Denly didn't get a bowl, and knocking him right down the order suggests he's very much a fringe consideration for the squad. I've banged on about my opinions enough on him but the reality is if he doesn't produce for England and isn't been given the chance to then his selection for the squad becomes much harder. The only thing I would say is that its even harder to see Dawson getting a squad place when he's not even in the extended training group...but he does offer an emergency solution if there's an injury.
Plunketts place looks vulnerable, that's nothing new. Overall England are shaping up nicely and should be full of confidence from smashing down such a big target with ease. Sure Pakistan aren't the best side they will face but it's not a case of inflating averages by minnow bashing.

A side full strength side with Rashid Buttler and Archer in will be very strong based on what we have seen in these few games, and the last few years.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 15 May 2019, 7:54 am

Anybody think in terms of the WC squad, they will just bring in Archer for Denly, and have an extra seamer? (and thus play an extra seamer if one of Moeen/Rashid get injured, and have Root make up a few spin overs if needed)

I'm not sure I see them bringing in Dawson completely from the cold...albeit would obviously have no issue if they did
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 15 May 2019, 8:29 am

James100 wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Always amuses me when these subcontinent flat track bullies rock up with these inflated averages. The ex Pakistani players on commentary keep talking about Zaman, Imam and Azam averaging over 50, yet fail to mention their stats are propped up by minnow bashing Zimbabwe.

chin

Have a look at the records.
Iman scored a big century against the number one side in the world yesterday to push his average above 60 which is pretty eye watering even by modern standards. I dont think its wholly unreasonable that people might get a bit of a hard on for him, a young player making a name for himself in a declining power. Hes averaging 114 in this series. Away in South Africa against one of the better attacks in world cricket he averaged 54.
Minnow bashing?
Well Australia did take him apart on the supposedly dead UAE turf. Hes had four other games against top sides (NZ and India) and failed. The early part of his career was almost entirely playing against sides outside the top 8; 3 centuries against Zimbabwe, 80+ scores against Bangladesh and Afghanistan (who have two of the top 10 bowlers in the world rankings), and an unbeaten 50 against the mighty Hong Kong.
So its fair to say the majority of his runs have come against pretty weak opposition, and lets not forget this was an England team short of its two prime wicket takers. But this series and SA has shown he has the ability to score runs against any type of bowling anywhere in the world. Whilst his career SR is not quite Gaylesque the innings yesterday proves hes got more to his game than just staying in. I personally think theres enough evidence to suggest hes maturing into a top class ODI batsman and could be a real force in the world cup, but still his average of 60 is a bit inflated.


Zaman....roughly a third of his runs came at an average of 257 in that zimbabwe series. Hes also played Afghanistan , Bangladesh and Hong Kong (although scored almost nothing in those games). Centuries against England and India show he has something, but against top 8 nations he averages 40 ... which puts him in the pretty decent but nothing spectacular category.
Whilst hes 29 now hes still pretty new to international cricket, so again its fair that commentators would be pointing to him as part of this new generation of Pakistan batsmen who are helping the team rebuild. But yes its also fair to say his record is padded by that Zimbabwe series.

Azams average has slipped a fraction under 50 now. Look at his T20 record though, its boggling. Average 54 at 128 ... theres not many who come even close to that. In that format he hasnt played any really weak sides, although there were 3 silly "world XI" games you cant call that record padded. Hes a genuine world class talent in T20 and tops the rankings by a huge margin.
ODI wise ..well yeah he too plundered Zimbabwe on that ridiculous tour, and the majority of his runs have come against Sri Lanka and the West Indies who fit in the "decent but not top class" bracket. Good tours tour to Australia (averaging 56 over 5 games) and New Zealand (73 over 2 games) is the only real evidence he can cut it against top sides. But if we are going to criticise his record for being padded its also worth noting that hes played far more games away from home than at home against these top sides.
So again yeah ...averaging 50 doesnt really give an entirely true picture. hes also not had a great of form since that Zimbabwe series. He is one of the worlds top T20 batsmen any way you try to cut it, but yet to show that hes more than a decent ODI bat. His ranking of 7 in the ODI list is misleading on evdience against top sides (Bairstow is 17 and Morgan 19...)

All in though you can see why the Pakistanis would be hyping up this trio, two of whom are still young, and all 3 at the stage of their international careers where they could be looking to establish themselves as genuine forces. Pakistan dont have a lot to be excited about with this generation, and whilst those games in Zimbabwe might have been a farce "you can only beat whats infront of you"...and I havent seen any other nations batsmen take a side apart like that ever.

These guys might not be Kholi, Warner and Sharma but neither are they pure minnow bashers. If Pakistan are going to get anywhere in this world cup then its likely that these guys will play a big part in that. They'll need some better help form the bowlers and fielders than they got yesterday though.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 15 May 2019, 8:37 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Anybody think in terms of the WC squad, they will just bring in Archer for Denly, and have an extra seamer? (and thus play an extra seamer if one of Moeen/Rashid get injured, and have Root make up a few spin overs if needed)

I'm not sure I see them bringing in Dawson completely from the cold...albeit would obviously have no issue if they did


That is how my argument above was going yeah.
If Moeens showing form and both he and Rashid are fit they could chose to just go without a reserve spinner in the squad and rely on emergency replacements and Root. If they have any genuine intention of picking Denly then he needs to get a proper bowl. if they had any faith in Dawson then they wouldnt have ditched him for Denly. Denlys struggles in international cricket after being the best limited overs player in English domestic cricket last year show how much county form is worth.
The point with Denly for me as a squad man is that he fills more roles than Dawson whos only ever going to be a 7/8 bat at best. But as it stands England could have Vince as a spare bat anyway.
My initial optimisim about Denly was also based on Moeen being in pretty rank form and having a pretty poor ODI record, arguing that Denly might offer more as a first choice. But on showings o far it looks like Moeen is getting his confidence up and Denly is surplus. Again its hard to see Dawson stepping in and claiming a first choice spot over Moeen this late in the day even if Moeen was in a pickle.

So yeah, its very much a case of who warms the bench and maybe plays the associates.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 15 May 2019, 2:16 pm

Morgan misses Friday due to yesterday's slow over rate. As he was probably due to be rested for one of these matches with Buttler getting a chance to skipper, not a big issue.

As to who Archer replaces agree that Denly is starting to look like the prime candidate.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 15 May 2019, 2:20 pm

Morgans copped a one match ban and a fine for his second over rate offence this year. Means Vince should get a chance to press a case for Hales' job as bench warmer....might be safer asking him to bring the drinks out too Rolling Eyes
Morgan might wish he had bowled Denly more now. Indeed the whole side gets fined 20% of their match fee which probably rubs the salt in even more to him!

Bairstow has been given a demerit ( equivalent to deducting 10 house points) for chucking his kit around when he got dismissed.

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Post by VTR on Wed 15 May 2019, 3:41 pm

Morgan's ban feels a bit tactical to me. Clears his demerit points ahead of the World Cup, missing a game he might have sat out anyway

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Post by James100 on Wed 15 May 2019, 3:45 pm

VTR wrote:Morgan's ban feels a bit tactical to me. Clears his demerit points ahead of the World Cup, missing a game he might have sat out anyway

Demerit points don't carry over to the World Cup

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