The Build to England’s Summer of Cricket

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 13 Feb 2019, 11:25 am

First topic message reminder :

It’s a little early for separate World Cup and Ashes threads, but with the Windies giving England less wins than they might have liked, what confidence had been gained from Sri Lanka has been drained.

If anything, it feels like there were less questions in summer than there are now, with the top three even less secure, Curran’s away showings looking unconvincing so far and some questions around  places for Bairstow, Foakes and pace of Wood or similar. 

There’s also a World Cup coming, a home World Cup, something England have been building towards for quite some time. They’re a very good team, maybe better than any England World Cup team, but there’s a few issues.

It’s also worth noting opponents, although I can’t see anyone getting more discussion than the Aussies. They’ve recovered from defeat to win a home series against a very weak Sri Lanka. Their tails are up, and they could welcome back their two bets batsmen. Could, as morals might well make that a little difficult. They don’t have many here, though, so it will depend just how much of a tit Warner is in the meantime.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 3:38 pm

Wood with the big wicket of Hafeez...have to say he seems to have settled any concerns over his fitness , assuming he pulls up OK tomorrow. He seems to have bowled quicker than Archer today ?
Certainly doing his WC claims no harm.

Babar really needs to get on with it now for Pakistan. There's his hundred anyway...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 3:46 pm

Babar begins to open up after he's reached his hundred...can't help feeling he's played a little for his own stats rather than the team so far...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 3:48 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Babar begins to open up after he's reached his hundred...can't help feeling he's played a little for his own stats rather than the team so far...

And he's gone - for me, the rare "match losing hundred" from Babar there
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 3:49 pm

England's fielding might have been a little careless at times, but Archer's taken a very neat catch just as Babar was starting to open up.

Pakistan might just struggle to hit 350 now.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 3:53 pm

Good bowling from Curran ...mixes his pace well. Handy wicket as Babar appeared to be putting the foot down. Arguably a bit late ; but I guess if he'd gone on to 150 quickly it would have been justified.

Asif in now and we know he can hit. So does Archer as his first ball disappears straight back Smile

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 3:54 pm

And I see Archer fancies a bit of fancy foot work just like Curran ! Batsman is in though...

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 May 2019, 3:56 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Babar begins to open up after he's reached his hundred...can't help feeling he's played a little for his own stats rather than the team so far...

Really? Run a ball century is playing for stats now?
Bear in mind he came in with them effectively 1 down for bugger all on a slow start. As with India they tend to bat in the old fashioned way of building a base and then exploding. he scored at the same rate as the players around him.
.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:05 pm

Great catch by Wood on the leg boundary ! Does for Asif and gives Archer a wicket after some good slower balls.
280/4 , seven to go. Going to struggle to get 350 from here...

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:07 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Babar begins to open up after he's reached his hundred...can't help feeling he's played a little for his own stats rather than the team so far...

Really? Run a ball century is playing for stats now?
Bear in mind he came in with them effectively 1 down for bugger all on a slow start. As with India they tend to bat in the old fashioned way of building a base and then exploding. he scored at the same rate as the players around him.
.
When your bowling attack is dreadful like Pakistan's, their batsmen need to ensure they get more than the par score. Azam was looking to just pad up his stats. Poor innings with no urgency

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:13 pm

I think the criticism of Babar , Goose , is more that he didn't look to accelerate quite early enough...perhaps a suggestion that he was a little too careful through the nineties and only pinned his ears back after notching the milestone ?
I'm not too critical of him myself : reckon it was for the others to bat around him and had either Hafeez gone on or Asif got going it might have worked.

But they now look likely to finish a bit short of par for this high scoring ground so that argument will doubtless get an airing...

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:19 pm

The par score for this ODI is probably about 380...Babar batted over a third of the innings at little better than run-a-ball, so I can understand the criticism of his knock. Babar's strike rate was the lowest of the innings so far for Pakistan (bar Imam).

Anyway, Curran's got another. England's most impressive bowler today and surely in the WC squad.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:20 pm

Three wickets now for Tom Curran...clever bowling . Think he's in my squad.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:34 pm

Duty281 wrote:The par score for this ODI is probably about 380...Babar batted over a third of the innings at little better than run-a-ball, so I can understand the criticism of his knock. Babar's strike rate was the lowest of the innings so far for Pakistan (bar Imam).

Anyway, Curran's got another. England's most impressive bowler today and surely in the WC squad.

Not by a significant amount....

As it is those scoring quickly are getting out quickly. Pakistan might've been goosed by now if the top order had not batted with some restraint.

The talk of Pakistan batting at 10 an over for the whole 50 was utterly ridiculous.




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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:35 pm

Four now for Curran . Pakistan running out of wickets as well as overs.

Hello : Imam coming back in ! That's good news at least ; though I doubt he's going to have full arm movement !

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:44 pm

Despite what I said the other day it really is looking harder to leave out Curran as well as Archer now. Apparently his SR is the best for any English ODI player with 10 or more wickets.
The places for bowlers are looking a lot more competitive after this game

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:48 pm

Don't think anyone was talking about Pakistan reaching 500.

Anyway, 340 is well short. Should be a cakewalk for England. Impressed by Curran and Wood. Archer so-so.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:48 pm

Think Archer got away with a couple of short ones there...another day he might have had to bowl that last one again. 1/62 for him...solid enough.

Curran finishes with 4/75

And that's 340 for Pakistan. Shouldn't be enough on here unless England decide to have one of their famous collapses Smile

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 May 2019, 4:50 pm

Duty281 wrote:Don't think anyone was talking about Pakistan reaching 500.

Anyway, 340 is well short. Should be a cakewalk for England. Impressed by Curran and Wood. Archer so-so.

Competition for bowling spots remains wide open , no ?

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 17 May 2019, 5:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:Don't think anyone was talking about Pakistan reaching 500.

Anyway, 340 is well short. Should be a cakewalk for England. Impressed by Curran and Wood. Archer so-so.

Some sympathy for Pakistan's approach - they would probably need 400 or more to have a good chance of winning. However, if they had really pushed for that sort of total, they could well have crashed and burned. As it is, they have runs on the board and a couple of bits of magic by them or acts of stupidity by us could still spring a surprise ....

As regulars will know, I've liked Tom Curran for some while. Never shirks responsibility.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 5:06 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Don't think anyone was talking about Pakistan reaching 500.

Anyway, 340 is well short. Should be a cakewalk for England. Impressed by Curran and Wood. Archer so-so.

Competition for bowling spots remains wide open , no ?

Indeed. But only one more ODI before decision time.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 6:00 pm

63-0 after 9 overs. Anything wide and/or overpitched gets the treatment. Easy going so far, though Pakistan did just miss half a chance in the field.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 6:21 pm

Hasnain gets Vince, who he had clobbered on the head and caused issues with his pace (a few lucky pull shots for Vince, including some horrible fielding by Junaid)

Gives Pakistan a much needed wicket
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 6:26 pm

Top edge brings Jason Roy his third consecutive fifty in ODI cricket.

And now the ton off a much cleaner strike.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:06 pm

Roy’s hundred shows why Babar’s was match losing imo - to beat this england side you need to be scoring a much better than a run a ball, especially on a ground like Trent bridge which is a belting pitch with a 50 yard boundary one side!

England, unsurprisingly, are chasing this easily.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:16 pm

I mean Pakistan also aren’t helped by the fact they are fielding like a village side
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:27 pm

That was a bit silly Joseph
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:31 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:That was a bit silly Joseph

X2

England doing their best to make this a game - but at least we’ll get to see Denly have a proper bat now, opportunity for him
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:33 pm

Three wickets for seven runs, oh my.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:39 pm

Moeen-plays-a-stupid-shot-shocker.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:40 pm

That was really poor from Moeen. Shoaib floated it up, outside off and his eyes lit up. Done by a very simple piece of bowling and poor shot.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:43 pm

I forget that england are still ultimately england at the end of the day

Collapse in the dna
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 7:45 pm

Joe Denly now has a golden chance to assert his place in the WC squad. A 50 would do very nicely. The RRR isn't really a problem.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:21 pm

Duty281 wrote:Joe Denly now has a golden chance to assert his place in the WC squad. A 50 would do very nicely. The RRR isn't really a problem.

And he’s rather blown it...
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:22 pm

Indeed, terrific catch admittedly, but Denly never really looked in control.

All up to Stokes now. He has to bat through the vast majority of these ten overs.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:23 pm

Wow staggering catch by Khan we are in a little bit of bother...

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:26 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Don't think anyone was talking about Pakistan reaching 500.

Anyway, 340 is well short. Should be a cakewalk for England. Impressed by Curran and Wood. Archer so-so.

Some sympathy for Pakistan's approach - they would probably need 400 or more to have a good chance of winning. However, if they had really pushed for that sort of total, they could well have crashed and burned. As it is, they have runs on the board and a couple of bits of magic by them or acts of stupidity by us could still spring a surprise ....

As regulars will know, I've liked Tom Curran for some while. Never shirks responsibility.

Duty & Olly - with 6 down and 80+ still needed, not going to be too easy from here. Did try to issue a gentle warning ....

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:28 pm

The relief of a nation could be heard as Stokes clumps one into the stands.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:33 pm

Now remind me again how Babars run a ball century cost them the game

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:33 pm

Curran gets run out, but it wasn't referred upstairs. No appeal, it seems. Bit odd. Plenty of near-misses in that department already between these two.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:50 pm

Tom Curran and Stokes upping the scoring rate. 34 needed from last 4 overs.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:53 pm

Quality knock from Stokes, a mature innings with great shot selection and brilliant temperament to guide England closer to home.

Impressive from Curran, too - at one point he was 1 off 7, but he rode out the difficult period to score some excellent boundaries. Arguably England's man of the match. Should be in the squad for the WC - you never know when you need some timely runs from your number 8.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 17 May 2019, 8:58 pm

stunning Yorker from Hasan, rather strange that the visitors haven’t bowled more of them

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 9:08 pm

England's collapse, the thing we all fear, nearly spoilt the cakewalk, but in the end Stokes + the lower order see their team through. Not a bad workout for them, in truth.

Winning is a habit and it's good for England to maintain it on the eve of the World Cup.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 17 May 2019, 9:09 pm

Easy as you like Stokes the ODI batsman getting better all the time

Poor old Sarfraz looks depressed

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 9:09 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Now remind me again how Babars run a ball century cost them the game

Because england batted as poorly as they have in England for 2/3 years and still won at pretty much a canter thumbsup
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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 17 May 2019, 9:12 pm

Phew! Bit of a scare although got there in the end. Well judged innings by Stokes with good support from Curran and Rashid. No criticism of Curran's slow start - his first job was ''stay with Ben'' and he did that.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 May 2019, 9:15 pm

Some analysis from the much missed Mike Selig on twitter

“Just to say some clear points:
- This is the best England one day team ever by miles
- England are currently comfortably the best one-day side in the world and strong favourites for the WC.
They may not win this summer, but win or not, both of the above are unquestionably true”

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 May 2019, 10:14 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Now remind me again how Babars run a ball century cost them the game

Because england batted as poorly as they have in England for 2/3 years and still won at pretty much a canter thumbsup

It's now 17 consecutive ODI matches won by England in England as the chasing side. Phenomenal.

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Post by alfie on Sat 18 May 2019, 1:44 am

Didn't turn out to be quite such a comfortable stroll to victory then ? I didn't sit up for the batting ...just about to view the replay ; but it appears that having a very strong late order was necessary on this occasion. If Curran had been run out when he apparently should have been - would the result have been different ?

Not that these results really matter. I'd agree with Mike about England's general superiority and realistic favoritism - but also accept that those last two knockout games could quite possibly go wrong. And while the batting is clearly England's strong suit it also remains the part that could go wrong. If Roy and Bairstow were both knocked over early , would the rest of the order adapt ? They've been getting pretty used to century opening stands...

One more game to settle the squad of 15. Most of the spots are clear enough but the question remains : do they bring Archer into the squad and if so who misses out ?  I'm sure Michael Vaughan has no doubts ; but to my mind Archer hasn't exactly produced anything (yet) in his few appearances for England that demands inclusion. I suspect they will still pick him ; but if do they are doing so on the basis of his perceived quality rather than actual performance in an England shirt.
Don't get me wrong : his ability is evident , and he probably is "better" than one or two of the bowlers already named. But they have the experience , haven't really done anything wrong in these games , and if one of them is dropped he will be justified in feeling a little hard done by.
Selectors were in a bind , to be fair. Archer became available ; the hype train was racing : so leaving him out initially but promoting the Pakistan matches as a chance for him to force his way in might have seemed like a good idea : as it is it would help if he takes four wickets on Sunday Smile

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 18 May 2019, 7:30 am

I wouldnt get too carried away about how far ahead England are of others, but certainly Pakistan arent in their class. India can match them with their first choice team, a better bowling attack but less batting depth. Australia look a hell of a lot stronger than the B team that played here last summer.
Englands squad depth though ... they won without three of the main seamers who carried them through this period, and without Bairstow and Morgan (and Hales of course). Theres enough quality through the squad that they can rest players or cover injuries to anyone except Rashid without the team suffering unduly. The emergence of Archer and Curran alongside Wood finding his pace again makes up for Plunketts drop off and adds an extra dimension that could be really important on flat wickets with a kookabura. Having one fast bowler used to be a dream, now they have a stable and one in particular who can consistently bowl accurately up around 90mph. Tom Currans batting seems to have stepped up too.

Last word on Babars innings...Roy is the only player to have made decent runs at a noticebaly better rate in this game. The two guys batting eitehr side of him scored the same combined as him at about the same rate. The middle order for both teams was given the perfect platform to accelerate from, but couldnt do it. I really dont see how you can lay the loss on one player, especially as the runs he got were nearly enough to see Pakistan through. They picked a team stacked with batting, but those lower down didnt deliver, it wasnt even like they were taking undue risks chasing a huge total under pressure...same as with England.
Pakistan clearly had an approach to give their bowlers and opportunity to keep them in the match. They didnt buy into the hype of 400+ as par, but should have made 370-80 from that platform with the batsmen they still had. Looking at the way batsmen lost their wickets when they tried to score at more than 7 an over if they had gone out like England do they could easily have ended up with less than 300 on the board.
As a team they maybe lack the belief that England do, which is understandable...they arent as good.
Roys innings was excellent. Even then it nearly wasnt enough, its just so hard to know.

Gooseberry

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