The Build to England’s Summer of Cricket

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 13 Feb 2019, 11:25

First topic message reminder :

It’s a little early for separate World Cup and Ashes threads, but with the Windies giving England less wins than they might have liked, what confidence had been gained from Sri Lanka has been drained.

If anything, it feels like there were less questions in summer than there are now, with the top three even less secure, Curran’s away showings looking unconvincing so far and some questions around  places for Bairstow, Foakes and pace of Wood or similar. 

There’s also a World Cup coming, a home World Cup, something England have been building towards for quite some time. They’re a very good team, maybe better than any England World Cup team, but there’s a few issues.

It’s also worth noting opponents, although I can’t see anyone getting more discussion than the Aussies. They’ve recovered from defeat to win a home series against a very weak Sri Lanka. Their tails are up, and they could welcome back their two bets batsmen. Could, as morals might well make that a little difficult. They don’t have many here, though, so it will depend just how much of a tit Warner is in the meantime.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 12:13

Will the England players be available for a couple of rounds of CC before the Ashes? Thats another opportunity for Archer to press a case.

Its good to have some competition for spots. Woakes and Curran have excellent home records in recent summers, Broad and Anderson the pedigree and experience, and Wood and Archer the pace to make a difference on flat wickets. Rashid and Leach if a second spin option is warranted or Moeen just needs to learn how to play cricket again (again).

Even if Archer doesnt make the Ahses team I think hes a given to travel all formats over the winter. Its those tour games they've really cried out for a player who can make things happen with a kookabura.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 13:09

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48553342

I hope to goodness five-match T20 series don't become a thing. It's bad enough having two! Remember when there used to be seven-match ODI series? *Shudder*

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 13:14

Duty281 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48553342

I hope to goodness five-match T20 series don't become a thing. It's bad enough having two! Remember when there used to be seven-match ODI series? *Shudder*

I can stomach the 5 T20i series because there is a test at Bay Oval - what an unbelievable ground that is to play cricket at!
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 13:25

Five T20i’s is logically as it’s essentially gearing up for the WT20.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 16:14

Notice Australia A ( which is pretty much the test team who didnt make the world cup squad) are busy slaughtering various counties in list A games at the moment.
Lots of bug runs being scored by the likes of Wade and Head, also some 21 year old who's name I'm not going to try and spell has got 130something today.
All in this crowd are sticking their hands up and suggesting that Aus might not be rubbish this summer as per the world cup.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 16:19

Meanwhile Sibley continues to make runs in CC1.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 16:25

Gooseberry wrote:Notice Australia A ( which is pretty much the test team who didnt make the world cup squad) are busy slaughtering various counties in list A games at the moment.
Lots of bug runs being scored by the likes of Wade and Head, also some 21 year old who's name I'm not going to try and spell has got 130something today.
All in this crowd are sticking their hands up and suggesting that Aus might not be rubbish this summer as per the world cup.  

That would be Will Pucovski. He was almost called into the Test squad (or may actually have been from memory) when India were here last summer but then was given leave again to play for Victoria for the Shield matches. He had some issues (some sort of nervous condition) but I believe they have been giving him full support.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 16:38

The all new touchy feely Australia!

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 16:45

Yeah, it makes me feel all warm and mushy. One of the merits of "the new inclusive society". Smile

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going eat some rusty nails washed down by a uranium milkshake.
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Post by king_carlos on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 16:50

LondonTiger wrote:Meanwhile Sibley continues to make runs in CC1.
I could see Roy and/or Sibley featuring in the Ashes.

1.Burns
2.Sibley/Roy
3.Denly/Roy
4.Root
5.Stokes
6.Buttler
7.Bairstow (wk)
8.Moeen
9.Woakes/Curran/Archer/Wood
10.Broad
11.Anderson

Denly is in possession of the 3 spot but the selectors seem keen on Roy for tests. It may be a question of whether they'd open with Roy or look to have him at 3.

Numbers 4 to 7 in that order seem nailed down whether everyone agrees with the Foakes situation or not.

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 19:26

Hi Carlos - which Curran is that as a possible 9?

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 19:37

I agree Carlos, although I do wonder if Broads spot would be more under threat than woakes. Woakes has been unbelievable in home tests the past two years and they've been looking to move on from Broad for some time.
Wood is also an option. Archer might find tests a step too far this summer unless he gets some significant first class cricket under his belt.
As for Currans...Sam's been injured, I'm not sure when hes due back? Tom is an outside chance of a spot, also never forget that Overtons also exist and Somerset are the new Surrey.

It's amazing how many options England have and still manage to look rubbish.

It's really those top 3 spots that are key. Burns Denly Roy and Sibley are probably my four favourites at the moment, but dont count Bairstow at 3 out.

County game experts...how are Burns Denly and Sibley against left arm quicks? Have they really faced any?
Roy isnt exactly scared of the likes of Starc, but it might be different in test where he cant try and hit everything for 6 ( over a shortened boundary)

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 19:37

I hear James Anderson had to hobble off with a calf injury in Lancashire's CC game - fingers crossed he'll be ok for the Ashes!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 23:17

I don’t see how they can ignore Sibley - he’s the only one scoring runs opening, so whilst some may have doubts (Surrey posters!), he has surely earnt his shot
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Post by king_carlos on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 00:46

guildfordbat wrote:Hi Carlos - which Curran is that as a possible 9?
Hi Guildford. Sam, AKA Pitt the even younger still. I think Tom will remain a One Day player for England in the near future.

I could see Sam featuring later on in the Ashes if fully fit though. I think England will rotate their quicks with Woakes, Archer and Sam the ones I think will feature. On recent selection Broad may well miss out for a test or two. Then again he could pull out a Stuart Broad performance in Test 1 and render himself undroppable!

Wood feels the more likely to miss out. Woakes has the experience and may well start the series as the third seamer. Archer offers pace and Curran the swing option to partner Anderson in the right conditions.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 00:47

It's a shame that Toby Roland-Jones has struggled on his return from injury. He looked set to nail down a place in and around the test squad prior to those stress fractures.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 08:16

king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Hi Carlos - which Curran is that as a possible 9?
Hi Guildford. Sam, AKA Pitt the even younger still. I think Tom will remain a One Day player for England in the near future.

I could see Sam featuring later on in the Ashes if fully fit though. I think England will rotate their quicks with Woakes, Archer and Sam the ones I think will feature. On recent selection Broad may well miss out for a test or two. Then again he could pull out a Stuart Broad performance in Test 1 and render himself undroppable!

Wood feels the more likely to miss out. Woakes has the experience and may well start the series as the third seamer. Archer offers pace and Curran the swing option to partner Anderson in the right conditions.

Thanks, Carlos. I thought you meant Sam but considered it worth checking.

I wouldn't rule Tom out of consideration for Tests at some future stage but accept that, unlike the batters, there's a long queue of bowlers atm. That's even without TRJ being in it - certainly a shame as you say.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 08:20

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I don’t see how they can ignore Sibley - he’s the only one scoring runs opening, so whilst some may have doubts (Surrey posters!), he has surely earnt his shot

As for earning his shot, certainly. Doubts? Yes, as on the CC thread - but that doesn't invalidate him or make anyone else a stronger and genuine contender.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 08:25

Anderson injury sounds like a non thing. It was calf tightness, he was cleared to bat. Hes only bowled 159 overs this summer due to a heavily managed workload, and it sounds like they were erring on the side of caution by not having him bowl again in this one.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 08:41

king_carlos wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Meanwhile Sibley continues to make runs in CC1.
I could see Roy and/or Sibley featuring in the Ashes.

1.Burns
2.Sibley/Roy
3.Denly/Roy
4.Root
5.Stokes
6.Buttler
7.Bairstow (wk)
8.Moeen
9.Woakes/Curran/Archer/Wood
10.Broad
11.Anderson

Denly is in possession of the 3 spot but the selectors seem keen on Roy for tests. It may be a question of whether they'd open with Roy or look to have him at 3.

Numbers 4 to 7 in that order seem nailed down whether everyone agrees with the Foakes situation or not.

The only other one I'd question would be Moeen or Leach? Although I suppose Moeen was back in favour for the New Zealand series and took 7 wickets in the final test (the one we won), and having Leach would lengthen the tail somewhat.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 08:45

king_carlos wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Meanwhile Sibley continues to make runs in CC1.
I could see Roy and/or Sibley featuring in the Ashes.

1.Burns
2.Sibley/Roy
3.Denly/Roy
4.Root
5.Stokes
6.Buttler
7.Bairstow (wk)
8.Moeen
9.Woakes/Curran/Archer/Wood
10.Broad
11.Anderson

Denly is in possession of the 3 spot but the selectors seem keen on Roy for tests. It may be a question of whether they'd open with Roy or look to have him at 3.

Numbers 4 to 7 in that order seem nailed down whether everyone agrees with the Foakes situation or not.

I'd imagine the seamers will all get rotated during the series, bar of course Jimmy providing he can do all 5 in a row (Broad might miss a game I'd bet). Probably would also see Stokes rotated for a game too maybe? You can shift Buttler/Bairstow up a spot, and bring in Woakes at 7 along with a Curran/Archer/Wood at 9. Stokes usually misses one test per summer with a niggle or two

I'd also suggest when Woakes plays it might be a good idea to have him at 8 ahead of Moeen. I think he's a better bat, and he certainly batted better last summer
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 09:04

Leach should be in consideration I agree, but I suspect England will stick by Moeen. Dropping him from the ODI first choice side is maybe a sign they are finally getting over him but dont forget how he bowled last summer. England never really seem to have taken to Leach much and almost begrudgingly picked him when they had 3 spinners in the side for Lanka. Hes having another decent domestic season though and has consistently shown over a number of years that hes the best EQ attacking spinner in the county game.
Lewis Gregory is another sticking his hand up by sheer weight of performance, but as a not really fast right farmer who can bat a bit hes going to be a low way down the injury queue. Might be an option for those T20s later in the summer which are likely to feature a lot of fringe players with 50 over WC starters rested.


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 07 Jul 2019, 12:39

NEWS: James Anderson has a (low grade) tear to right calf

Doubt for Ireland Test (July 24) & #Ashes opener (Aug 1). Will be reassessed on an ongoing basis.

Rehab governed by England, who will work alongside Lancashire's medical team. Ruled out of matches v Northants & Sussex
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 07 Jul 2019, 14:09

At least we know where Jofra's going to fit in!

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 07 Jul 2019, 15:18

An injury to Anderson would probably mean Woakes to open the bowling? It would open a spot up for Archer or Wood to come in.

I'd imagine he might sit out the Ireland game in a bid to be fit for the first Ashes test, unless his recovery is miraculous between now and then. Shame as I have tickets to Day 3 and would have loved to see Jimmy bowl, but I'd rather he was fit for that first Ashes test.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 07 Jul 2019, 19:03

Bayliss was talking up Roy as a test opener today. Understandable given the continued failure of county cricket to provide decent openers. Might well be a case of Hales 2 but .....

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 07 Jul 2019, 21:44

Would be harsh to rule out Roy because Hales couldn't make the step across, but you are correct and the Hales case proves there are no guarantees.

What strikes me about Hales is looking at his domestic stats vs his international ones:

T20s: average 29.25 @ 142.90 vs 31.01 @ 136.65
One-day: average 38.40 @ 99.09 vs 37.79 @ 95.72
First class/tests: average 37.81 @ 59.06 vs 27.28 @ 43.84

In the two white ball games, Hales international stats are near enough indistinguishable from his domestic stats. In tests, there was a big drop in his average and also his strike rate. Was the drop in strike rate symptomatic of Hales not being able to cope? Or did he try and rein himself in and end up losing form because of it? It was striking that Cook normally had a better strike rate in their stands and a strike rate of 43.84 is actually lower than Cook's career rate as well (46.95). Cook's first class strike rate is a smidge higher than his test strike rate (50.86) but lower than Hales' first class rate.

Hopefully if Roy does get the call up he tries to play in an aggressive manner, rather than getting bogged down. His first class strike rate is 82.11 (averages 38.38) so he's not afraid to hit the red ball. It would take a brave captain to keep 3 slips and a gully into him if he's starts crashing boundaries, and probably his best chance of staying in is to move those close fielders.

As a comparison, Warner hits at 74.56 at first class level and 74.50 at test level, but averages much more (48.63 at FC vs Roy's 38.38 and 48.20 at test level). What it shows though is he's playing the same way in tests as he does in first class, attacking the ball. Warner is regrettably probably the best attacking opener in tests at the moment in the world, so being a less good Warner is probably still better than being Keaton Jennings.

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Post by alfie on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 01:32

That's a very thorough and interesting post , Robbo clap

I share the doubts around Roy opening against a Test attack , given the fact he never goes in early for Surrey. It seems a bit like trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat... But he can certainly hit the ball and if he's in form trying him probably wouldn't be the worst idea given the lack of alternatives on offer. I'd feel better about it if the other two in the top three weren't also just there because they haven't been able to find anyone better...

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 09:10

Roys first class stats are probably a bit misleading since he has barely played any red ball cricket since 2016 ( 5 CC games in 2017, 2 last season and none this year). His scores showed big improvements in those few games he has played recently though, averaged in the 40s 2017 and 60s last season. 
But absolutely whats going to get him picked (if he is) is his confidence and increasing comfort on the international stage, not county cricket. Its maybe a insult to the likes of Sibley but England will need players who are not terrified of facing Starc and Cummins with the new ball. Its long been a problem that the CC hasnt really had players bowling with the speed and aggression of those chaps. Players are maybe well prepared to take on the likes of Darren Stevens, but get exposed (Gary Ballance) at test level. 
I guess the Edgbaston game will be another chance for Roy to show that he can shine in the face of a barrage of hostile bowling.


* Edit He also played first class on the Lions tour to UAE batting at 3 last Autumn. Flat pitches etc but he didnt do badly at batted at a fair rate.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 09:35

Yeah he hasn't played a huge amount of red ball stuff in recent years, but before that he was rapidly improving in that format of the game, and I believe was averaging mid 40's in his last few proper seasons of red ball cricket, so it's not like Buttler who was a real hunch pick (Buttler averaging low 30's when picked, but has turned out well!).

I personally don't think he should open though - he should be number 3. He has batted that high for Surrey previously, and done so well (Guildford will attest). He is going to get out going after wide ones every now and again of course, but I don't think we'll see him go into his shell like Hales did. It's either going to be fireworks or bust
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 09:41

2016 was when he last properly played CC and averaged in the 30s.
As above he averaged low 40s 2017 and over 60 in his two games last season.

Surrey fans...is it correct that hes not opened? Has he played at 3 in those more recent matches?


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Post by James100 on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 10:29

Gooseberry wrote:Surrey fans...is it correct that hes not opened? Has he played at 3 in those more recent matches?


He definitely batted 3 last year.

From memory, he batted 4 for a season or two before that and 5/6 previous to that.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 12:56

Have heard that Jofra Archer will need some time off post World Cup to fully recover from his side issue - being managed through the last few games of the competition, but unlikely to feature in the Ireland test and is unlikely to be fully recovered until the 2nd Ashes test
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 13:14

Well that answers one selection question then.  The last report I saw on Anderson sounded quite optimistic about him being fit for Ireland.

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Post by James100 on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 13:27

If Anderson and Archer are both out of the Ireland Test, I guess that means we go in with Broad, Woakes and Wood. Maybe rest Stokes and play Sam Curran too. That should be fine against Ireland, but a bit worrying if they both also miss the first Ashes Test

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 14:47

Pattinson meanwhile is busy reminding us that the one thing Aus arent short of is decent seamers in a 4 days match against Sussex for Aus A. Hazelwood, and Bird also playing. 
The "A team"  of course Captained by Tim Paine. 
Aus will likely be better prepared for the Ashes than England.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 15:46

Olly Stone who was once a big fast-bowling hope for England has taken a 5-for in the most recent county games - 5-93 against a good batting performance by Hampshire. Team mate Sibley has failed in his first innings, falling for 16.

Surrey trio Burns, Foakes and Curran have made 30, 60 and 43 respectively as they push for 3 different places in the team. Curran is also 1-21 from 12 overs so far.

In Div 2, Toby Roland-Jones took 7-52 against Gloucester after being name-checked on these boards the other day, while Lancashire pair Jennings and Hameed have both fallen for ducks against Northampton.

No batsmen really putting their hands up then, especially not top order where we really need them. Which lends itself to Roy getting a shot.

A couple of good bowling performances in there, but even if we lose Anderson and Archer you think Stone and Roland-Jones are probably a bit behind in the pecking order. As mentioned above you'd expect 3 from Woakes, Broad, Wood and Curran, or all 4 if Stokes was given a break as well.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 08 Jul 2019, 19:29

I'd respectfully say that Sibley is stil there abouts the top of the county averages and aggregate runs scored as despite one failing is putting hand up.

Burns Sibley Roy as the top 3 could be a consideration. Massively short of experience, but Denly was rubbish when picked and hasnt done anything to change my mind since.

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Post by Jetty on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 00:28

Gooseberry wrote:Well that answers one selection question then.  The last report I saw on Anderson sounded quite optimistic about him being fit for Ireland.

Before ECB reports came out on Anderson, Richard Gibson Mail, a friend of Anderson was the first to break the news. He said low grade calf strain - 2 weeks rehab. That would give him a week before the Ireland Test. The media love headlines like... doubts for first Ashes Test.  Rolling Eyes

'Grade one calf muscle tears are a result of mild overstretching resulting in some small micro tears in the calf muscle fibres. Symptoms are normally quite disabling for the first two to three days. In most cases, your recovery will take approximately one to two weeks'  Very Happy

Broad is our best Ashes bowler. He might not be getting many in the cc but he ups his games for the Australians. I have a feeling that the WC bowlers will have a rest for the Ireland Test and the bowlers used will be Anderson 9.37, Broad 27.94, SCurran 23.29, Stokes, Ali.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 07:01

Yeah I suspect they might want to rest Stokes too of that's possible. It would be going quite a long way down the pecking order of bowlers to find a replacement outside the world cup squad though. I guess Tom Curran could be considered, and I'd forgotten Stone existed ( good to see him back playing but hes probably off the radar for now). I suppose Denly could be a the extra bowling option pitch dependant if they feel he deserves another in the top 3.
I'd also like to see Leach ahead of Moeen. Hes having another good season in CC. England have dropped Moeen so many times now, and he cant even get in the world cup side ahead of an injured Rashid. His all formats batting has been awful for ages. The only thing in favour is two devastating home summers with the ball but that's mostly been India hes terrorised not Australia. I defy anyone to make a case that hes a better bowler than Leach, and any batting he does bring down the order is a luxury.
For me Moeen is a two spinners pick. In theory that could be combining with Denly to have the option of moving the ball either way but that just means two poor bowlers. Root and Leach could offer a similar challenge without having to pick two sub standard players in the side.


Ireland are on the up a bit at the moment having beaten Zimbabwe again, but still are a sub county standard team. England should be able to afford to rest and rotate and give opportunities, but still stram role them.

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 09:20

Gooseberry wrote:I'd respectfully say that Sibley is stil there abouts the top of the county averages and aggregate runs scored as despite one failing is putting hand up.

Burns Sibley Roy as the top 3 could be a consideration. Massively short of experience, but Denly was rubbish when picked and hasnt done anything to change my mind since.

Denly played a good hand for Kent yesterday. I was also impressed by Crawley who has just been named in the Lions team. I posted a bit more on the current Surrey match thread if anyone is interested.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 09:53

Playing well against Surrey's second XI though....
I expect Denly will at least start the summer tests but does anyone honestly think hes ever going to cut it as a test player? Ok this is the board that convinced me that James Vince was worth another go but ....
Sibley Roy and Burns have stronger claims to top 3 batting spots IMO. Not that thats a ringing endorsement but one good day in CC doesnt make Denly any better than Jennings or Stoneman IMO.
Crawleys another name thas floated around as one for the future for a couple of seasons now but surely some way to go yet?

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Post by alfie on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 11:55

On the Moeen-Leach issue :

(Unlike Goose I am not automatically disposed to disparage Moeen wherever possible ; but I have to admit he's had a rough patch lately)

Yes I agree Leach is a better bowler. I don't think he's exactly the New Swann/Underwood/Laker...but he's very good on a responsive pitch and decent on a flat one.
However he's another number ten bat when the team is already likely to contain two others in Broad (the current - batting- version) and Anderson ; and potentially a third in Wood... Think his selection would depend on whether or not Woakes was in at eight at the very least. Even then they'd think about it...

Yeah I know : you should pick the best bowlers and not worry about their batting ability. Trouble is the records show that usually - certainly in recent Ashes contests - the team that bats best from seven to eleven mostly wins.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Leach at some point. But I reckon Moeen will likely start.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 12:55

The argument about the tail would be more meaningful if Moeen wasnt batting like a 10.
I struggle to see how Woakes doesnt get picked for the Ashes 11.
I do agree that Moeen has the stronger chance to be first choice simply through the endless amount of faith Bayliss seems to have in him. Hendidndonthe business last summer, if not the job (batting 3) he was bought back in for. (Wasnt it Australia that battered him into being dropped prior to that ? IIRCC leach got the nod sometime in the NZ series then got injured and we ended up with the next Bess thing for the early summer tests)


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Post by alfie on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 13:05

If they're all fit I reckon 4-11 will be Root Buttler Stokes Bairstow Woakes (good case for batting ahead of Moeen) Moeen Broad Anderson.
But how it goes after the first match will depend on results.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 13:14

Goose I think you are right about Australia hitting Moeen out the team. We had Crane at the end of that Ashes series in Sydney, then Leach then Bess.

Battingwise, even if Moeen scores 1 run-a-ball 70 batting with the tailenders to turn a 240 into a 340 and a perilous position into a first innings lead, that's a lot to get from your 8 in a series. 9 more ducks and an average of 7 for the series wouldn't look very smart even for a number 8, but in terms of the ability to change a game Moeen's batting would still be ahead of Leach's.

In terms of bowling I like that we could have Leach as a primary spinner and Root as a second spinner to turn it the over way. Root as a second spinner now doesn't offer as much.

Ultimately, I think batting is more of a worry right now with an unsettled top 3, so I lean towards Moeen as a potentially game changer with the bat and a good spin bowler (especially at home), rather than Leach as a better spinner but worse batsman. As Moeen hasn't played much this World Cup I'd definitely play him against Ireland and see how his form is with red ball and whether he can bat aggressively but with a modicum more control than he usually does. However I wouldn't be inking him in for the entire Ashes series just yet.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 15:38

I forgot about Crane! Jeez. 


Moeens tests since he destroyed South Africa and the Windies 

38407829700v AustraliaBrisbane23 Nov 2017Test # 2282
2522709920v AustraliaAdelaide2 Dec 2017Test # 2285
01111112010v AustraliaPerth14 Dec 2017Test # 2288
20-2008900v AustraliaMelbourne26 Dec 2017Test # 2289
301343217010v AustraliaSydney4 Jan 2018Test # 2291
0282805900v New ZealandAuckland22 Mar 2018Test # 2299
40949913400v IndiaSouthampton30 Aug 2018Test # 2317
502070311810v IndiaThe Oval7 Sep 2018Test # 2318
033813720v Sri LankaGalle6 Nov 2018Test # 2324
101020615710v Sri LankaPallekele14 Nov 2018Test # 2326
332255414700v Sri LankaColombo (SSC)23 Nov 2018Test # 2329
000413700v West IndiesBridgetown23 Jan 2019Test # 2342
6046436200v West IndiesNorth Sound31 Jan 2019Test # 2344
13DNB13713510v West IndiesGros Islet9 Feb 2019Test # 2346


Urgh apologies for the awful formatting. To summarise hes averaged 18 with the bat, with high scores of 50 and 60. 
33.89 with the ball though, which is better than Id thought. I'd forgotten just how many wickets he took in the winter tours too and has  been pretty brilliant since his recall averaging 23 with the ball. Also he last home Ashes (2015!) he took a lot of wickets......whilst getting carted all over the place.   

He has earned his right to keep his spot, despite being hatefully inconsistent and having lost it with the bat. I do agree that even Moeen shot of confidence is no worse than Leech at his best. I just wish theyd stick him below Woakes/Curran in the batting order. 

I still maintain that Leech is the better wicket taking bowler, and that Moeen simply isn't good enough to justify a place when a second all rounder ( which he isn't anyway) is a luxury. A bowling average of 66 against Australia does not bode well for him to continue that form. But Moeen has earned a spot by err being better than he is  Whistle chin

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 15:45

With Lyon a key player for Australia and the old duke ball being used I don't expect England to produce spinning tracks anyway. I expect the pitches will look to play to the accuracy and experience of Anderson, Broad and Woakes in particular.

Pacy pitches will play to Starc and Cummins. Pitches with a bit off the pitch that demand discipline and longer probing spells will play to the experienced attack leaders for England.

If the balls swings then both sides have very exciting attacks that will be fascinating to watch.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 15:52

king_carlos wrote:With Lyon a key player for Australia and the old duke ball being used I don't expect England to produce spinning tracks anyway. I expect the pitches will look to play to the accuracy and experience of Anderson, Broad and Woakes in particular.

Pacy pitches will play to Starc and Cummins. Pitches with a bit off the pitch that demand discipline and longer probing spells will play to the experienced attack leaders for England.

If the balls swings then both sides have very exciting attacks that will be fascinating to watch.


Theres an expectation of flat pitches, hence the dukes ball. In theory an attacking spinner in particular a leggie would be a valuable too. Shame Rashid has pooed the bed and not really even in the argument. Lyons not that great a player, the left arm pace men are much more of threat. 
But yeah overall youd expect seam to be the key weapon for both sides. But then noone really expected Moeen to rip India apart last summer on green pitches. So who knows!

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 16:16

Lyon is one of the greatest finger spinners of the modern era. Moeen is rubbish. But England refuse to select Leach

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