What a league

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 10:28 am

First topic message reminder :

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 2:58 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
I have never seen a game where one side did not concede a single penalty. This is extremely odd, and personally I feel doubts could be raised about the standard of this ref in this game.

He's a new ref, Italian too. I didn't see the game but could easily be said that Munster with their stereotypical nous played the new guy. On the other hand some teams have only given away a few penalties against Kings and only a couple have went into double figures against them.

LondonTiger wrote:These can only be addressed properly by reviewing the whole game. I get the feeling though that this is a long running argument with a lot of subtexts far beyond this individual game.

It seems to come down to the fact that it was an Irish team hence why the focus regarding the refs performance from LD and RF is on Munster rather than the blatant piece of foul play from a Kings player and the constant implication seems to be the Irish have their finger on the scale and that's what is really holding the Welsh teams back

LondonTiger wrote:
Mod bit:

As often happens with discussion like this the tone shifts pretty quickly at times. Please ensure this thread does not become one that requires modding.

Unfortunately when you use reason with some, they see the failure to agree fully on something as intransigence rather than the issue being more complex than they either realise or are willing to acknowledge

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 3:14 pm

All legal apparently.

Flopping over ruck, off feet:

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First one - flopping on the ball to make sure opposition can't contest ruck. second one - clear in the side:

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an obvious in the side:

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Taking out an opposition player, and going off feet at ruck:

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Not onside, taking a player out off the ball:

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Meanwhile, Kings yet a yellow card for this bind on  Munster player in the ruck:


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Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 3:20 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Meanwhile, Kings yet a yellow card for this bind on  Munster player in the ruck:


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Pretty sure binding your shoulder to a players head is illegal Rolling Eyes

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 3:24 pm

The Standards of This ref in This Game.

Correct.... that might have been the thread title: "What a Game".

But of course that's never contentious enough for posters who simply don't want Pro14 to exist... therfore the alternative and misleading title is championed instead: "What a league".
But too, all is fair in the propaganda wars. People use propaganda to promote Leagues and to besmirch them. My only objective is not to stop posters hating the very notion of Pro14, nor to impede their ability to make their arguments...but I do intend to always ensure highlight the underlying 'politics' of such contributors and their repeating observations.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 3:37 pm

I doubt the new ref was keeping count of weather he had penalized Munster or not and just took the situations as they came up.  If it can be shown that the ref went into the game and planned giving nothing to the Kings then it's a problem.  That clearly is not what happened.

I watch Connacht v Cheetahs.  Owens penalised a Connacht player for holding on.  The Cheetahs player had one foot on the ground and the other one in the air about half a meter off the ground as he rested on two Connacht players.  If both feet were on the ground I don't think he would have reached the ball.  I don't think it was a right call but it was given, ref had a good game, no bias.  Form where Owens stood he was right so everyone moved on.

Weaker teams don't get the rub of the green regardless of where they are from.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 3:39 pm

Brendan wrote:

Weaker teams don't get the rub of the green regardless of where they are from.

You've just described bias in officiating.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 3:44 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yep, the case IS and has always been that there is an exception to be made for the degree of ineptitude present in Pro14 when compared to other leagues.  That's always the inference as it's always tied into the more broad argument that Pro14 can't match the professionalism of its rival leagues.
That's pretty much a scientific claim and lo and behold the gifs come up to 'prove' the 'facts'.  But of course the 'scientific' claim is proof of nothing except that Pro14 is a Rugby Union contest, just like the English Premiership, the Top 14 and the Super Rugby competition.  The scientific conclusion would be that there is nothing exceptional about the reffing in Pro 14 if similar reffing performances and decisions could be uncovered in all those other Leagues.  
Now taking an example of International rugby then it's clear that there's considered to be ample evidence that referees from these other Nations regularly gaff their way through contentious games.  So, are we meant to believe that these high grade International referees don't habitually make the same regular gaffs when reffing domestic competitions?  Also, if these are considered their Nation's top ranked refs then how many regular errors of judgements must the non-International standard refs make in these other contests.
If mistakes and gaffs happen in all Leagues then the scientific conclusion is that there is no quantifiable issues with👏  reffing in Pro14 and any anomalies are simply the anomalies that show up whenever a human being refs a rugby game.
clap clap

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:00 pm

Look where the Munster player enters the ruck from  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

Right infront of the referee. Amazing. Not a single penalty.

What a league indeed.

The only possible mitigation is that the ref thought it was still a tackle situation and not yet a ruck.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:01 pm

I take serious offence to people who accuse me of being against anything just because of the country they are from.

Marty has done this twice on this very thread, yet the moderators continue to do nothing about it.

Is this the place we want this forum to be ?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:06 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I take serious offence to people who accuse me of being against anything just because of the country they are from.

Marty has done this twice on this very thread, yet the moderators continue to do nothing about it.

Is this the place we want this forum to be ?

That's what they do though. They are unable to discuss 95% of the things on here - because of the delusion and dishonesty. So they focus on the 5% - or actually divert attention away and make something up, in order to try and deflect away from the matter at hand.

A poster has done it on this very page. Unable to defend anything in most of the post he has quoted, so instead focuses on a small part to try and divert attention, hoping the conversation moves on to another argument. They are to be pitied really.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:11 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I take serious offence to people who accuse me of being against anything just because of the country they are from.

Marty has done this twice on this very thread, yet the moderators continue to do nothing about it.

Is this the place we want this forum to be ?

You were asked to show were hands were on the ball...you didn't

You said you didn't dismiss the Munster player being dumped on his head...you did it twice

2+2=?

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:20 pm

Not once did I mention Ireland or the Irish or anything of the sort. If you are going to accuse me of something, then you need to gather your evidence.

I said that the player who tipped the Munster player should be cited and I said that the on that clip you can clearly see that play has been slowed down, I have not mentioned hands on the ball either, you do not need hands on the ball to slow play down.

How you get away with your behaviour on here only you and the MODS will know.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:25 pm

If you do look at that instance of the munster player coming into the ruck from the side you'll also notice the kings player offside and bumping him to the side. Pen to Munster.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:28 pm

I'm pretty sure if you watch any game back you'd be able to find an example of both an instance where someone is penalised but shouldnt have been and an example where somoene wasnt penalised but should have been.

Its part of the game that is both infuriating but also what makes rugby a totally different sport to football which is far simpler to play and follow.

Yes there are times (in all comps) where you wonder what on earth a ref is up to, but there's no brown envelopes flying around the place.
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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:31 pm

tigertattie wrote:I'm pretty sure if you watch any game back you'd be able to find an example of both an instance where someone is penalised but shouldnt have been and an example where somoene wasnt penalised but should have been.

Its part of the game that is both infuriating but also what makes rugby a totally different sport to football which is far simpler to play and follow.  

Yes there are times (in all comps) where you wonder what on earth a ref is up to, but there's no brown envelopes flying around the place.

I agree with this, we just have crap refs in the Pro14.

As some people have alluded to, this was a new Italian ref. The question I would have to ask is though, is why we are using our league as a nursery for refs ?

We want our league to the best it can be, so if they want these new refs to gain experience, why not ask them to have a go at the next level down, in saying that there are better refs in the Welsh prem than some of the refs I see in the Pro14 these days.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
I said that the player who tipped the Munster player should be cited and I said that the on that clip you can clearly see that play has been slowed down, I have not mentioned hands on the ball either, you do not need hands on the ball to slow play down.

You also claimed it's always a penalty, when others as well as myself have pointed out that's not the case you became offended as you to like to do. As has been clearly stated some give it and some don't. If the Munster player doesn't have his hands on the ball, maybe you can explain how he slowed the ball down

LordDowlais wrote:How you get away with your behaviour on here only you and the MODS will know.

What behaviour exactly? You said Munster should have been penalised and ignored the fact if the ref was being accurate the penalty would have been going Munsters way ultimately. I challenged it, your outrage

If RF was so worried about the standard of officiating he would have highlighted the penalties the ref missed that should have went against Kings, yet the focus is on Munster. Some of those he highlighted show Kings committing fouls including a Kings playing obstructing a Munster player resourcing a ruck/tackle and then one he is shocked that Kings had given against them seems to show a Kings player hitting a Munster player on the head with his shoulder. If that's not skewed I don't know what is

Everyone is in agreement things need to change, the focus on certain small elements as RF seems to want to do, then accuse others of, is part of the problem on here and why you become so offended. If someone doesn't wholly agree with you they are wrong. Myself and others have said it might be a penalty but because we haven't aid it's a clear penalty you want to attack everyone and be offended

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 4:53 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I'm pretty sure if you watch any game back you'd be able to find an example of both an instance where someone is penalised but shouldnt have been and an example where somoene wasnt penalised but should have been.

Its part of the game that is both infuriating but also what makes rugby a totally different sport to football which is far simpler to play and follow.  

Yes there are times (in all comps) where you wonder what on earth a ref is up to, but there's no brown envelopes flying around the place.

I agree with this, we just have crap refs in the Pro14.

As some people have alluded to, this was a new Italian ref. The question I would have to ask is though, is why we are using our league as a nursery for refs ?

We want our league to the best it can be, so if they want these new refs to gain experience, why not ask them to have a go at the next level down, in saying that there are better refs in the Welsh prem than some of the refs I see in the Pro14 these days.

And how does a ref gain experience at Pro level by reffing at semi Pro?

How many Welsh Prem games are overanalysed everywhere and everything highlighted like RF has down? If he made gifs of every ruck how many would you say the ref got wrong?


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Post by Brendan on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 5:55 pm

If there were better refs in the tier below would we not be using them and your first game in a new tourment will always be a learning experience.

If we want better refs maybe we should go try ref a few games ourselves to see how much we actually see.


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Post by Brendan on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 6:03 pm

RF has shared clips from two games.

One where one of the best breakdown teams smashed a team that avoids breakdowns because they are rubbish at them.  He blames the ref who had his first game in the league and bases the standard of the Pro14 off of him.  Imagine basing a teams ability by their newest member.

The second is of a Welsh team losing.

If he shared clips from the same games going the other way or of Welsh teams getting away with something or Welsh Refs being poor he might be taken more seriously.

So unless you are willing to show both sides "playing the ref" either you are telling half truths or the coaches need to do better prep on the refs they get

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 6:18 pm

Brendan wrote:If there were better refs in the tier below would we not be using them and your first game in a new tourment will always be a learning experience.

If we want better refs maybe we should go try ef a few games ourselves to see how much we actually see.
 As someone who reffed for 5 years, I can say it is tough. Not so much at first when you are doing matches where frankly they are grateful to have a "proper" ref. Then you make loads of mistakes but no-one really worries too much about it. As you start progressing it gets tougher. The players are better, they are fitter and there are spectators. I stopped doing it after being spat at and jostled while leaving the pitch after doing a county cup final between two clubs with a very fierce local rivalry.

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Post by stub on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 7:58 pm

Yikes LT - that sounds pretty bad. I hear a lot of negative comments directed to referees but have never seen anything physical. Not good.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 8:48 pm

Brendan wrote:RF has shared clips from two games.

One where one of the best breakdown teams smashed a team that avoids breakdowns because they are rubbish at them.  He blames the ref who had his first game in the league and bases the standard of the Pro14 off of him.  Imagine basing a teams ability by their newest member.

The second is of a Welsh team losing.

If he shared clips from the same games going the other way or of Welsh teams getting away with something or Welsh Refs being poor he might be taken more seriously.

So unless you are willing to show both sides "playing the ref" either you are telling half truths or the coaches need to do better prep on the refs they get

I mean it's not like a Welsh team went unpunished for a deliberate knock on on the try line at the weekend or anything

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 11:35 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Brendan wrote:If there were better refs in the tier below would we not be using them and your first game in a new tourment will always be a learning experience.

If we want better refs maybe we should go try ef a few games ourselves to see how much we actually see.
 As someone who reffed for 5 years, I can say it is tough. Not so much at first when you are doing matches where frankly they are grateful to have a "proper" ref. Then you make loads of mistakes but no-one really worries too much about it. As you start progressing it gets tougher. The players are better, they are fitter and there are spectators. I stopped doing it after being spat at and jostled while leaving the pitch after doing a county cup final between two clubs with a very fierce local rivalry.
Nonsense this ref business is easy just ask rugbyfan with his gifs or LD.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Feb 2019, 11:45 pm

Poor decisions are only a Pro14 thing they say?

How many offences can anyone spot at this last ruck? https://www.facebook.com/harlequins/videos/vb.122689644426206/296436374354406/?type=2&theater

Apologies for not creating a gif, Im too lazy for that

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Post by Cyril on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 2:04 am

Good luck to the non-Irish sides in this tournament! Crikey, they’ve got an uphill struggle.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 5:30 am

When I saw this I assumed you were referring to Benetton’s double movement try, which the TMO had to review by the way, so the officials could watch the double movement in slow-mo first. I assume he was part of the TMO faction that have been doing Wales up the back passage since last years 6 Nations. Joke.

Anyway, zero penalties? What a clean team Munster have turned out to be! Have to agree that we need to stop using our league as a nursery for these amateurs. If it comes to that then give them a Munster v Leinster fixture, it’ll go one of two ways;
1. Out-of-his-depth ref has minimal effect as both have their best out and continue to play to a high standard.
2. Out-of-his-depth ref has a shocker. The Irish bitch in retaliation, so the Pro14 bows down and does something about it.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 8:44 am

Aren't the leagues meant to be a nursery for amateur/semi-pro people becoming professionals.  As far as I know most of the people who make their debut in the league were amateur or semi-pro before becoming professionals in the leagues.

People want more refs from Italy and Scotland so we an have neutral refs at games.  When they are brought in people give out about them and say they shouldn't be there.

The Munster v Kings game finished as expected and I don't think the ref affected the result much.  The Ref will get a review and given things to help him in the next game.  He also had 2 assistants who must also have been talking in his ear.

How do other leagues bring Refs through.  It's not like this guy's first ever match/season was this one.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 8:48 am

Mikey I am sure if he was ref for Munster v Leinster the players would push the boundaries much more and as a result make it a harder game to ref.

Take Munster v Castres ref missed things and players got suspended after. I don't remember a thread called what a cup with gifs of the refs that made poor decisions and there were many each round.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 8:50 am

Brendan wrote:Mikey I am sure if he was ref for Munster v Leinster the players would push the boundaries much more and as a result make it a harder game to ref.

Take Munster v Castres ref missed things and players got suspended after. I don't remember a thread called what a cup with gifs of the refs that made poor decisions and there were many each round.

Castres don't play in the Pro14 so the ref couldn't make a mistake

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 8:56 am

Brendan wrote:  It's not like this guy's first ever match/season was this one.

If someone told me it was, I would have no trouble believing them.

It was perhaps the worst refereeing performance I have ever seen.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 9:02 am

Remember when the Premiership was called the Jiff. I've just had a brainwave (rare, I know) given all the allusions to gifs above.... Pro14 - it's obvious! .... De Gif, innit?

Oops. Sorry, for bringing in utter nonsense into wot is and ever shall be a Very Very serious thread.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 9:04 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:  It's not like this guy's first ever match/season was this one.

If someone told me it was, I would have no trouble believing them.

It was perhaps the worst refereeing performance I have ever seen.

Well given your assessment of some of the incidents you highlighted, it seems the guy had a decent enough game

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 10:40 am

Indeed. Rugby fan even missed some penalties with the aid of repeated gifs.

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Post by VinceWLB on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 10:50 am

I think you hit the nail on the coffin, even the Munster staff must be laughing about it.

It's not incompetence, it's just bias towards the biggest teams and it's nothing new and isn't inherent to the league either, happens everywhere though this was an extreme case...

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:00 am

Is not home 'advantage, not another admitted and public ally 'lauded' bias? You get a home crowd to cheer on all the stuff they want the ref to ignore and to boo every opposition move they want penalised.
That's proven bias in determining the likelihood of victory... it's why all teams hope for a home game in the end stages of competitions.
So bias.... as I say repeatedly on these threads.... is ALWAYS there. It's the very same bias every time.... there are no degrees of it, it's either bias or it isn't. It's just that on some occasions in the minds of fans, bias is a legitimate 'request' on one occasion and a hit crime on another occasion.
BTW.... as we're back on the bias subject...... is a roof a version of bias? Do his want it closed or opened at the weekend, Welsh posters?

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:01 am

Forgive typos..... on a pad that I'm not used to.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:02 am

Where was the bias though? The bigger teams tend to be better and more disciplined, anytime I've seen the likes of Kings, Cheetahs or Zebre they can be penalty machines

Kings gave away the same amount of penalties as they have on average this season, some teams have given 3 or 4 penalties away against them this season, is that all bias or is that some teams being better disciplined than them? I think Edinburgh are the only team to have conceded more penalties in a game this season with the Kings, they are one of the teams who conceded 4 penalties against them too.

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Post by VinceWLB on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:06 am

The stronger the referees the more immune they will be to bias but even then we have seen repeatedly the strongest referees making big mistakes, they are not robots and i would bet Rugby is one, if not the toughest sport to referee accurately.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

I think the more dangerous ref habit is actually many of them thinking too much about presumptions of bias.... that's when the cat can well and truly escape the bag. You have instances (and admit it we've all witnessed them ) when a ref who is trying too hard to be unbiased realises that he probably made a bad penalty call against teamA, he hears the boos in his ears for minutes after, and caves to the pressure by giving a very dodgy penalty decision against team B (to even things out.... or 'to be fair'). And the crowd play their bit in the subterfuge both during the game and after it, when they smile knowingly and claim the ref maybe had a decent enough game after all, and if he was a little unfair at times, at least it was against both sides....... hugs and kisses and back slaps of approval.

Horseschidt! The ref bottled it, made an error of judgement with team A and was bluntly unfair to team B..... all to prove himself 'unbiased'.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:22 am

SecretFly wrote: is a roof a version of bias?  Do his want it closed or opened at the weekend, Welsh posters?

Are you seriously asking if something, that 2 teams HAVE to agree on, is biased?


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Post by SecretFly on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:30 am

Sure the away team only agree to the closed roof to stop the sneers about them being afraid of a closed roof Smile. So it's not only rabid bias.... it's criminal blackmail, it's dastard divilment, it's social media bullying and it probably means the 6N is a shoddy, substandard joke of a competition that should be done away with.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:31 am

cringe

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:32 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote: is a roof a version of bias?  Do his want it closed or opened at the weekend, Welsh posters?

Are you seriously asking if something, that 2 teams HAVE to agree on, is biased?


Except neither are agreeing what they want for Saturday and England are getting their way so that's not true that both need to agree


Last edited by marty2086 on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 19 Feb 2019, 11:33 am

BTW.... in the final week, we want the room both closed and LOWERED by about 30 feet. We're going to prove we're men, goddamnit!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 3:49 am

Brendan wrote:Aren't the leagues meant to be a nursery for amateur/semi-pro people becoming professionals.  As far as I know most of the people who make their debut in the league were amateur or semi-pro before becoming professionals in the leagues.

People want more refs from Italy and Scotland so we an have neutral refs at games.  When they are brought in people give out about them and say they shouldn't be there.

The Munster v Kings game finished as expected and I don't think the ref affected the result much.  The Ref will get a review and given things to help him in the next game.  He also had 2 assistants who must also have been talking in his ear.

How do other leagues bring Refs through.  It's not like this guy's first ever match/season was this one.

If they’re this bad then they shouldn’t be coming through. Right now I’m wondering how some of these TMOs manage to make it to the 6 Nations when they’re this blind and stupid.

Never seen a decent Scottish or Italian ref and don’t expect to any time soon, nor do I want them to be broken in at the continued expense of the lower teams.

The result was as expected but it doesn’t make this incompetence at the pro level okay.

I’m not sure.

Brendan wrote:Mikey I am sure if he was ref for Munster v Leinster the players would push the boundaries much more and as a result make it a harder game to ref.

Take Munster v Castres ref missed things and players got suspended after. I don't remember a thread called what a cup with gifs of the refs that made poor decisions and there were many each round.

I’m sure they would to, but going by your perspective that’s probably a good occasion to bring them through. Like I said I don’t think it would have a great impact on things.

Probably because there’s no Castres fans on here, as well as limited access to the cup, and less incentive for some posters to watch it. Stupid comment. The silly attitude from some of you Irish is that “aw well this happens in all leagues so it’s okay.” Bonkers, and having a consistency of referee-ineptitude across leagues doesn’t help address our situation.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 9:31 am

Unless we employ extremely sophisticated AI to be the ref this notion of "consistency" from the refs is an unobtainable utopia.

Every league in every country suffers from poor refs, constantly starting hyperbolic threads to bemoan it, it just a bit sad really. Especially when it seems to be the same posters using certain teams to "prove" there point if view.

We get it. Some people on here hate the pro14 and wish the teams from there country played elsewhere.
Fine that's your choice.
And just as your free to come on forums and moan, I am entitled to point out that your moaning comes across as just a bit bitter that your team isn't doing so well right now.

I see a lot of similarity between the moaning about refs as I do with big nick Williams when he was at Ulster.
Certain fans of a club hated him. Used terms such as "thug" and "dirty" .
Now when big nick signed for that same team, all of a sudden he was "strong carrier" and would bring a "hard edge" to the pack.

When your not doing well it's find someone to blame.

Try accepting that refs are human, mistakes will happen, and it's just at a game (for us any way)

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 9:36 am

carpet baboon wrote:I see a lot of similarity between the moaning about refs as I do with big nick Williams when he was at Ulster.
Certain fans of a club hated him. Used terms such as "thug" and "dirty" .
Now when big nick signed for that same team, all of a sudden he was "strong carrier" and would bring a "hard edge" to the pack.

When your not doing well it's find someone to blame.

Try accepting that refs are human, mistakes will happen, and it's just at a game (for us any way)

It was not just Nick Williams at the time though was it, it was the ethos of the Ulster side during that era. Also, for the record, I still think he is a liability, and a dirty player.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 9:37 am

LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:I see a lot of similarity between the moaning about refs as I do with big nick Williams when he was at Ulster.
Certain fans of a club hated him. Used terms such as "thug" and "dirty" .
Now when big nick signed for that same team, all of a sudden he was "strong carrier" and would bring a "hard edge" to the pack.

When your not doing well it's find someone to blame.

Try accepting that refs are human, mistakes will happen, and it's just at a game (for us any way)

It was not just Nick Williams at the time though was it, it was the ethos of the Ulster side during that era. Also, for the record, I still think he is a liability, and a dirty player.

So Ulster's ethos was to be dirty?

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 9:39 am

carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:I see a lot of similarity between the moaning about refs as I do with big nick Williams when he was at Ulster.
Certain fans of a club hated him. Used terms such as "thug" and "dirty" .
Now when big nick signed for that same team, all of a sudden he was "strong carrier" and would bring a "hard edge" to the pack.

When your not doing well it's find someone to blame.

Try accepting that refs are human, mistakes will happen, and it's just at a game (for us any way)

It was not just Nick Williams at the time though was it, it was the ethos of the Ulster side during that era. Also, for the record, I still think he is a liability, and a dirty player.

So Ulster's ethos was to be dirty?

Oh, here we go. No not necessarily. But they were giving themselves a bit of a reputation at that time.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 21 Feb 2019, 9:42 am

People slating the refs in the Pro14 when World Rugby and the Top14 have Poite as one of their top refs Rolling Eyes

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