England v Italy Match Build Up Thread

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 04 Mar 2019, 1:39 am

First topic message reminder :

Date: Sat 9th March
Time: 16.45
Venue: TWICKENHAM Stadium, London
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia) ((Who???))

England starting XV (472 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 28 caps), 14 Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 3 caps), 13 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 30 caps), 12 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 16 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 43 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 68 caps) (captain), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 83 caps), 1 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 7 caps)  , 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 35 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 20 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 56 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 30 caps), 6 Brad Shields (Wasps, 6 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 8 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 39 caps)

Finishers (203 caps)

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 6 caps), 18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 83 caps), 19 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 20 caps), 20 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 11 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, 1 cap), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps), 23 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 20 caps)




Italy squad for England:




15 Jayden HAYWARD (Benetton Rugby, 15 caps)
14 Edoardo PADOVANI (Zebre Rugby Club, 18 caps)*
13 Luca MORISI (Benetton Rugby, 23 caps)*
12 Michele CAMPAGNARO (Wasps, 41 caps)*
11 Angelo ESPOSITO (Benetton Rugby, 18 caps)
10 Tommaso ALLAN (Benetton Rugby, 46 caps)
9  Tito TEBALDI (Benetton Rugby, 30 caps) 
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 136 caps) – capitano
7 Abraham Jurgens STEYN (Benetton Rugby, 28 caps)
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 14 caps)
5 Dean BUDD (Benetton Rugby, 19 caps)
4 Federico RUZZA (Benetton Rugby, 10 caps)*
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 20 caps)
2 Luca BIGI (Benetton Rugby, 17 caps)
1 Andrea LOVOTTI (Zebre Rugby Club, 32 caps)*
 
A disposizione:
16 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulousian, 102 caps)
17 Cherif TRAORE' (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)*
18 Tiziano PASQUALI (Benetton Rugby, 16 caps)
19 David SISI (Zebre Rugby Club, 3 cap)
20 Jake POLLEDRI (Gloucester Rugby, 6 caps)
21 Guglielmo PALAZZANI (Zebre Rugby Club, 30 caps)
22 Ian MCKINLEY (Benetton Rugby, 7 caps) 
23 Tommaso CASTELLO (Zebre Rugby Club, 17 caps)



So after the come down of losing to Wales in Cardiff, England now have Italy at home as a chance to get the chariot back on track. Bonus points so far mean they are in with a good shout of a tournament win even if the GS and Triple Crown are out the window. They'll want to test out a few fringe players, avoid injuries and get the full 5 points from this fixture.

Italy so far look poor, they've yet to get a win and if history means anything will have to wait another week too. But anything can happen, they often make England work hard for any points and can catch the English off guard sometimes, dragging them into a scrap that suits the Azzurri. Get ready for another long afternoon of certain hosts and pundits gushing over Parisse as he gets in the way of everything good the Italians try, but looks so good doing it.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 11:40 am

BamBam wrote:
LT, can we have a thread solely for members to pontificate into thin air? Would avoid cluttering up the normal threads

Threads are like a river and follow the path of least resistance.

Actually they are not, they race down the rabbitholes of most resistance - only resetting when we get a new page.




No 7&1/2 wrote:Mays going to be full back cover by the looks of it. Or possibly slade at a push?


If Daly gets injured, I suspect Slade would go to 15.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 11:43 am

Ha. A better side step than Sinotti Sinotti that LT.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 11:49 am

LT is wasted as a moderator, politician is his true calling Run

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 11:58 am

I don't understand Eddies thinking regarding Robson, does he really see him as a No9 for England in which case he needs game time before the RWC (what if Youngs gets injured in 1st game?) or is he using him to get a reaction from Danny Care?
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Post by miaow on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 12:29 pm

BamBam wrote:Just when the debate was getting back round to the game picard picard

LT, can we have a thread solely for members to pontificate into thin air? Would avoid cluttering up the normal threads

Feel free to respond with something of substance...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4XGkWmz1qU


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Post by Cumbrian on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 12:36 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:I really dislike the midfield, Farrell, Te'o and Tuilagi together seems to lack creativity.  I  would hope that we could do more than simply try to bludgeon Italy into submission.

It's a valid concern and you may be right, but I'd say wait until we see it. Maybe the midfield will make Italy bolster their frontline defence and England will redouble their kicking game with the full back isolated? Or if we do try to keep the ball more, after a crash on the first phase Daly might step into the front line as that distributor option.

If we are looking for creativity, we haven't had it from Slade. I have no doubt that he was playing to instructions, but I don't think we can argue we need to have more creativity in the midfield when we have had Slade taking crashballs. At least if we put Te'o in, we can have someone with a bit of size hitting the line.

True, but then I wouldn't have chosen Slade for that role either. I know it isn't a popular opinion, but I would really like to see the Ford and Farrell axis again, perhaps with Tuilagi running off it.
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Post by BamBam on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 12:40 pm

miaow wrote:
BamBam wrote:Just when the debate was getting back round to the game picard picard

LT, can we have a thread solely for members to pontificate into thin air? Would avoid cluttering up the normal threads

Feel free to respond with something of substance...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4XGkWmz1qU


There is no point responding to something as nonsensical as "Jones has bottled it with this team selection"

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Post by miaow on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 12:46 pm

I was referring to my comment earlier in this thread based on a discussion I had with robbo. Feel free to go back and read it so it makes sense. The fact he has picked Farrell and Youngs to start is, to me, a sign that he doesn't have the confidence in any other half-back. Not an ideal situation at all - and a sign that he's not prepared a situation where either 9 or 10 is injured for the whole tournament/from the start of the game.

I do believe EJ's planning and team regeneration has been one of his weakest points for England and don't see anything different with this team. That said, still going for 60...

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 12:48 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:I really dislike the midfield, Farrell, Te'o and Tuilagi together seems to lack creativity.  I  would hope that we could do more than simply try to bludgeon Italy into submission.

It's a valid concern and you may be right, but I'd say wait until we see it. Maybe the midfield will make Italy bolster their frontline defence and England will redouble their kicking game with the full back isolated? Or if we do try to keep the ball more, after a crash on the first phase Daly might step into the front line as that distributor option.

If we are looking for creativity, we haven't had it from Slade. I have no doubt that he was playing to instructions, but I don't think we can argue we need to have more creativity in the midfield when we have had Slade taking crashballs. At least if we put Te'o in, we can have someone with a bit of size hitting the line.

True, but then I wouldn't have chosen Slade for that role either.  I know it isn't a popular opinion, but I would really like to see the Ford and Farrell axis again, perhaps with Tuilagi running off it.  

Yeah I have no issues with going back to Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi and thought it was a strong option before the Championship. We might even see it against Italy for 30 minutes. Even if it's not how we start games, it's an option to finish them.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 12:50 pm

On a separate note Bam how do you think George Sinckler Wilson Curry Itoje slade and Daly have gone since Jones integrated them into the team?

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 1:02 pm

miaow wrote:I was referring to my comment earlier in this thread based on a discussion I had with robbo. Feel free to go back and read it so it makes sense. The fact he has picked Farrell and Youngs to start is, to me, a sign that he doesn't have the confidence in any other half-back. Not an ideal situation at all - and a sign that he's not prepared a situation where either 9 or 10 is injured for the whole tournament/from the start of the game.

I do believe EJ's planning and team regeneration has been one of his weakest points for England and don't see anything different with this team. That said, still going for 60...

The dictionary definition of "bottle" is the confidence needed to do something difficult or dangerous, and the colloquial expression "to bottle it" is to lack that confidence.

You're saying Eddie lacks the confidence to play his back-up 9 and 10, I don't think it's a confidence issue. He has decided his best 9 and 10 are Youngs and Farrell and he's given them his full confidence. He's actually taking a massive risk by now pinning absolutely everything on those 2 being fit, because like you say if there is an injury he's left with players who are untested, unfamiliar with teammates or tactics or not good enough.

He could try Robson and Ford against Italy (and personally I would have), but I don't think he is genuinely worried that either of them would cost us this game. He just doesn't see them as starters for the World Cup and doesn't want to waste time on them in those roles. That's not a lack of confidence in either of these guys for this game.

Personally, I would have picked this team for the Scotland game if this is what he wants to look at but I would have also started Cowan-Dickie, Robson, Ford and possibly someone else on the left wing (depending on fitness) for this game. Give everyone a runout against Italy and then look at a slight change team against Scotland in a proper game.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 1:06 pm

Could be the last chance for Shields to sneak in for a WC spot you'd think. So far he's produced nothing really of note so a big game is needed.

With Wilson nailing the 6 shirt and Curry/Underhill fighting it out for the 7, backrow spots are at a real premium.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 1:12 pm

Somewhat similar to the side I thought he might pick, just to see how it works.

Cannot understand the reluctance to pick Robson though.

The thought of a Ford, Farrell, Manu set up with Daly, May and Cokanasiga hitting the line at pace is not one that I think Italy would relish

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 1:20 pm

Some comments from the BBC.

'Jones has picked the powerful pair of Manu Tuilagi and Ben Te'o in the centre, with Joe Cokanasiga making his first Six Nations start from the wing.

"It's massive - I wouldn't like to play against it," Farrell told BBC Sport.

"We need to make sure those boys get in the game."

Cokanasiga, 21, made his England debut in November, scoring tries against Japan and Australia.

He came off the bench at the end of England's defeat by Wales last time out, but has yet to start a championship match.

"He's massive, he's very quick, he's got brilliant skills and he's brilliant in the air," Farrell said of the 6'3" 18-stone back.

Head coach Jones added: "It's something different for us - over the last four years we have had fairly small backlines.

"We have everyone fit and available and it's an opportunity to play some big guys together."

Up front Ellis Genge starts alongside Jamie George and Kyle Sinckler in a front row Jones believes can carry ball "better than any other front row in the
Meanwhile Jones has opted to combine Te'o and Tuilagi together for the first time from the start of a Test.

"He's a strong runner and that's one of my strengths as well," Te'o said. "Whoever they put me with we can figure it out."

With Maro Itoje struggling with a knee problem, lock Launchbury starts alongside George Kruis, with Nathan Hughes providing bench cover.

Jones has resisted the temptation to start Dan Robson against the Azzurri, with Ben Youngs and Owen Farrell continuing at half-back.

"Italy is a bit of an unknown quantity but when Conor allows them to play rugby they play well," Jones added.

"They have played terrific games in the Six Nations. They are fitter, physically stay in the contest a lot longer and they are quite unpredictable in the way they attack.

"We expect Italy to throw the ball around a bit so we are going to have to defend very well against their unpredictability and when we have got the ball, we have to use it wisely."

"We are looking forward to getting back to Twickenham. We haven't played there since the France game so it will be nice to play in front of our home crowd."

Obviously looks as if it's a very different set of tactics than those we've seen so far. Hugely different backline to when we were fielding Farrell Joseph style midfield s etc.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 2:18 pm

15 Jayden HAYWARD (Benetton Rugby, 15 caps)
14 Edoardo PADOVANI (Zebre Rugby Club, 18 caps)*
13 Luca MORISI (Benetton Rugby, 23 caps)*
12 Michele CAMPAGNARO (Wasps, 41 caps)*
11 Angelo ESPOSITO (Benetton Rugby, 18 caps)
10 Tommaso ALLAN (Benetton Rugby, 46 caps)
9  Tito TEBALDI (Benetton Rugby, 30 caps) 
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 136 caps) – capitano
7 Abraham Jurgens STEYN (Benetton Rugby, 28 caps)
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 14 caps)
5 Dean BUDD (Benetton Rugby, 19 caps)
4 Federico RUZZA (Benetton Rugby, 10 caps)*
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 20 caps)
2 Luca BIGI (Benetton Rugby, 17 caps)
1 Andrea LOVOTTI (Zebre Rugby Club, 32 caps)*
 
A disposizione:
16 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulousian, 102 caps)
17 Cherif TRAORE' (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)*
18 Tiziano PASQUALI (Benetton Rugby, 16 caps)
19 David SISI (Zebre Rugby Club, 3 cap)
20 Jake POLLEDRI (Gloucester Rugby, 6 caps)
21 Guglielmo PALAZZANI (Zebre Rugby Club, 30 caps)
22 Ian MCKINLEY (Benetton Rugby, 7 caps) 
23 Tommaso CASTELLO (Zebre Rugby Club, 17 caps)

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 2:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What does Shields need to do for you then Bam? Personally I continue to be underwhelmed by Wilson, shields at least is better in the lineout. They hold the shirt currently ahead of us slotting in a willis or an Underhill. Even Dombrandt or Hill for that matter.

picard

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 2:43 pm

What's up Geordie?

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 2:46 pm

Well theres gonna be fireworks with THAT front row!

1 Genge
2 George
3 Sinkler

Might be worth a fiver that England wont finish with 15 men!!

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 2:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Some comments from the BBC.

With Maro Itoje struggling with a knee problem, lock Launchbury starts alongside George Kruis, with Nathan Hughes providing bench cover.


Mark Wilson can cover Lock incredibly well....

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 2:59 pm

According to Wiki Hughes has about 20kg on Wilson, I would rather see that weight in the engine room.
As long as Billy is on the field, I think Wilson is a better 6 or 8 than Hughes anyway.

Shields doesn't seem to have the physicality to cover lock, he grafts, but is rarely effective going forward.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 3:42 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well theres gonna be fireworks with THAT front row!

1 Genge
2 George
3 Sinkler

Might be worth a fiver that England wont finish with 15 men!!

But they don't get sent off, they are all just a bit 'feisty'

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Post by No9 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 4:05 pm

A no win game for England ...

Beat Italy by a cricket score, and it will be ... well its only Italy.

Beat Italy but not by the cricket score, and it will be not very convincing was it.

Lose to Italy and it will be PARTY TIME (outside of England that is)...


So guys, the only way I can see you winning opinion with this one, is not to turn up. Forfeit the game blaming it on, RFU meddling in the clubs... (Thats what we would do Wink )...


No joking aside.... Expect England to win this comfortably, with no sweat.

Good luck (honest)... thumbsup

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 5:15 pm

Interesting interview with Eddie: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/video-eddie-jones-on-why-now-is-the-time-to-unleash-the-tuilagi-teo-midfield-axis/

Addresses Dan Robson too. "If you listen to the fans, you end up in the Grand Stand with them."

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Post by miaow on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 6:36 pm

robbo277 wrote:You're saying Eddie lacks the confidence to play his back-up 9 and 10, I don't think it's a confidence issue. He has decided his best 9 and 10 are Youngs and Farrell and he's given them his full confidence.

Really not a point I went to get hung up on - it's semantics after all - but it's very much a case of how you look at it, and calling his decision to stick with Youngs-Farrell could easily seen as poor planning for any number of reasons: lack of confidence in the back-up/his current gameplan/keeping tactics up his sleeve for Japan could all be very legitimate reasons for that. From the outside, I think EJ is lacking some bottle when it comes to team selection - but then that's not overly surprising considering what happened in 2018. Nothing contentious here. If I were English saying this I doubt you'd have the same hostility to it.

robbo277 wrote:...I don't think he is genuinely worried that either of them would cost us this game. He just doesn't see them as starters for the World Cup and doesn't want to waste time on them in those roles. That's not a lack of confidence in either of these guys for this game.

That's just crazy and not how literally every other coach has prepared for the tournament. As has been spoken about with England in 03 and NZ in 11/15 - planning for chaos is what wins RWCs. Injury to Farrell and/or Youngs - a very real possibility - in a RWC would result in players he didn't want to 'waste time' on having to now start, and to lead the team into the hotbed of itense, back to back games, and potentially knockout rugby. Either that, or you need to rotate your team heavily in the group stages to avoid burnout and/or the increased chance of injury to key players. You're a good poster robbo, I doubt even you believe what you've just written.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 8:18 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Some comments from the BBC.

With Maro Itoje struggling with a knee problem, lock Launchbury starts alongside George Kruis, with Nathan Hughes providing bench cover.


Mark Wilson can cover Lock incredibly well....

Hughes came into the row against Ireland and put in one of his better England cameos to be fair.

Wilson has been excellent at blindside. I say keep him there rather than wear him down scrummaging in the row.

With Robshaw recalled so swiftly you have to think that Shields needs a good game tomorrow to stay in the squad.

6.Wilson, Shields, Robshaw
7.Curry, Underhill
8.Vunipola, Hughes

At least one of those will miss out on the RWC squad.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 8:22 pm

Oh this thread looks different... I also meant to ask; with only two locks in the team does that mean they're likely to play the full 80 injuries permitting? I would assume that Hughes is the lock cover?

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 8:50 pm

We have already spent too much time tidying this thread. We do not care for any arguments on who  started it, but let it finish now please.

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Post by yappysnap on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 9:01 pm

Farrell, Te'o, Manu could go very well or be terrible, a lot will depend on how Italy read our plays and how quick we are. If they have time to team tackle either centre then I can see us struggling to go forward and making mistakes under pressure.

But if the size and threat of the backline makes some Italians leap out of defense early, then Manu, Joe and Daly can all profit, that must be the hope.

I knew Shields would start, he's an average player but a Jones favorite and apparently (according to just about everyone he's played for or with) a very good leader, which is what this team needs going into the RWC. If he can hit his best form then I think he'll be a good addition, if not then he's a bit of a wasted spot.

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Post by yappysnap on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 9:05 pm

Also not starting Robson is just silly now.

At the risk of going mad I actually agree with Miaow, Jones has struggled with selection over his tenure as England coach, and the speed that he's brought through some players has been pretty slow. Many only getting chances due to injuries.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 10:44 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh this thread looks different... I also meant to ask; with only two locks in the team does that mean they're likely to play the full 80 injuries permitting? I would assume that Hughes is the lock cover?
Hughes played lock during the Ireland game. Wilson has played in the second row too, if it comes to it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 6:21 am

Come off it yappy! He lacks the knowledge of English rugby but you know enough to know Jones has brought plenty through into the team. Gripes about not bringing people through fast enough are merely around personal choice. For everyone like you or me who maybe would have had Robson in or around the team 12 months ago there's others who would point to cases form coming off the bench and ripping teams apart and saying that would have been silly.
Its an old argument made by certain posters that guys should be dropped into the team at the earliest possible moments and indeed build huge strength down to 4th choices however it's just not possible give the limited number of games. In reality for any England coach the decisions he has to make is which of the 4 or 5 (normally) potential players am i going to pick and how best to integrate them.
The real battle isn't throwing someone a cap it's viewing the whole package and then creating the environment for them to thrive. It frustrated some to see George on the bench for so long but who is to say he would have settled so well had he just been thrown in?
It's not to say it's an exact science either look at guys like Harrison who a just turn out not to be up to it.
Summary it can be annoying players we think are obviously good enough not get picked however the coaches see a whole lot more of the picture than we do sometimes.

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Post by miaow on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 7:00 am

And yet I keep predicting what will happen to England and English players almost to a tee. Yeah, I'm the one with the lack of knowledge... Rolling Eyes

The personal attacks I'm getting here, solely from English posters, on the bac of the Wales game are ridiculous. You get some Welsh posters who want to gloat and mock and I get the antipathy to that. But if you don't want to discuss English rugby, because you can't admit/see the things being discussed, so be it. Making it personal isn't the answer.

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Post by Cyril on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 7:08 am

Miaow, it’s the way you and mikey go about it. You’re very similar in the way you both have to be right and have a fairly unpleasant way of getting your ‘points’ across. It’s not discussion with either of you, it’s lecturing. Don’t be surprised if that rubs people up the wrong way. Between the two of you you’re probably responsible for most of the arguments on here.

Ah yes, Pie as well. The three musketeers.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 7:51 am

Cyril wrote:Miaow, it’s the way you and mikey go about it. You’re very similar in the way you both have to be right and have a fairly unpleasant way of getting your ‘points’ across. It’s not discussion with either of you, it’s lecturing. Don’t be surprised if that rubs people up the wrong way. Between the two of you you’re probably responsible for most of the arguments on here.

Ah yes, Pie as well. The three musketeers.

But which one is which?

Pie, by his very name must be Porthos
Miaow- has to be the bookish semi religious Aramis, just because he can write a book of the Bible 5 times a day
Which leaves Athos, well Mickey is the only one left, heartbroken as his wife left him and takes it out on the forum. Milady does sound a bit English if you think of Parker (Thunderbirds) "Yes, Milady"

But who is yet to join the group, is there an apprentice (D'Artagnan) in the wings?


Very Happy

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Post by miaow on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 7:59 am

I completely disagree Cyril.

Whenever I've had periods away from these boards and have momentarily dipped back in, 7.5 has always been having the same sort of 'discussions'/petty and personal arguments he has tried to pick with me. Likewise the other usual suspects. Posters like 7.5 and mikey seem to look for an avenue for some sort of disgruntlement - anything to make it petty and off topic. The focus isn't rugby, the focus is baiting, albeit with different 'tones' to their posts. Only yesterday I've had two posters commend me on this board - which might not count for much you might say, but there we go - the point I'm making is that I'm not the common factor in the arguments. Here's the quote, even if it feels dirty having to drag this up:

Irish Londoner wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Miaow that is an outstanding post - one of the best I have read on 606 OK thumbsup

Seconded.

I do get how I might rub people to wrong way at times - posts are too long, maybe a bit dogmatic - but I think the main reason I annoy certain posters is because by and large I know what I'm talking about. Take 7.5 - he took issue with a discussion over Joseph v JD2's defence: I called that to a tee and the prediction was so accurate, JD2 gets player of the tour. He laughed at the idea that Liam Williams and Tipuric were world class: Lions tour proved the former for people outside Wales, even if the latter still is underrated because he doesn't play in England. Also predicted EJ's fall from grace, if not quite so hard when 7.5 was talking about usurping the All Blacks. There have been many more but those stand out as the most ridiculous/memorable. Again, the issue isn't me - the issue is I know and analyse his team better than he does most of the time, or at least better than he is willing to admit on these boards. The only way to respond to consistently being 'wrong' in this way, other than to admit it, is to psychologically protect the ego with denial/personal attacks - and of course project his own failings, i.e. "he lacks knowledge of English rugby", on to me. That's what I think is going on here tbh.

Others have jumped on to that bandwagon after the England game, for obvious, partisan reasons. And of course in this thread you get posters throwing personal barbs at me completely off topic from the rugby - and then hide behind "this is an English thread, for English posters...we'll have no trouble here!" The reality is they're on minor WUMs themselves and I think I make an easy target because I'm trying to discuss England in a way they don't want to - which is fine, to a point. So be it. But I like talking about England - they're the most interesting 6Ns team that isn't my country: France dreadful, Italy barely competitive, Scotland a bit too erratic but good to watch, and Ireland a bit boring/the Irish-Welsh relations on these boards are scorched earth, for the most part. England have an incredible set of players and depth, as they did under Lancaster, and obviously had the spike under EJ that makes them formidable. The boom-bust success is interesting and, along with having a few players I really like watching, it makes them good entertainment/to analyse. There's still something there, still a few distinct fundamental weaknesses to them, as we saw a fortnight ago, and that's what I find interesting.

Despite 7.5's completely inaccurate conjecture, I've had some good quality, first hand experience of domestic English rugby in the last 18 months, and it's interesting to see that translated to the national team. Also, the Ireland performance was the best I've seen England play since the golden era...but their failure to back it up against Wales makes it even more tantalising. Where is this England team? Are they 3rd in the world? Are they 2nd? Or are they still burdened by the same problems they've had for the last 15 years?

So I have to disagree. I'm not really the problem poster here. I certainly don't come close to the bile mikey spews up. And I don't want to have that levelled at me again - the problem is people not sticking to rugby in the first place, derailing a thread, and then - when I defend myself like this - playing victim olympics.

Just talk about the rugby fgs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLyVfzpfbFw&feature=youtu.be&t=251

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Post by Cyril on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 8:03 am

More waffle.

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Post by miaow on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 8:08 am

That's the best post I've ever read on 606

(by you)

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Post by RDW on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 8:13 am

LondonTiger wrote:We have already spent too much time tidying this thread. We do not care for any arguments on who  started it, but let it finish now please.

If people would like to be able to post on here this weekend I suggest you have a read of this  OK

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 8:14 am

Could have typed that faster to save my reply RDW!

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Post by miaow on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 8:15 am

sorry rdw, good point

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 8:21 am

Bury the hatchet miaow?

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 9:28 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bury the hatchet miaow?

Preferably not in each other's back.

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Post by RDW on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 9:32 am

drumroll

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 9:32 am

Hey I was being nice. For once.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 9:42 am

if any poster wishes to feel morally superior just go look at the utter tripe on the HYS section attached to the Beeb's story.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 10:19 am

HYS? For the entirely dumb.... , what be that referring to, please?

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Post by BamBam on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 10:24 am

SecretFly wrote:HYS?   For the entirely dumb.... , what be that referring to, please?

Assume its the comments section at the bottom of this article - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47481821

https://twitter.com/avoidcomments?lang=en

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 10:43 am

Have Your Say. A minefield of wums.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 12:38 pm

And this is why I avoided the Wales v England thread like the plague.

Anyway...back to England v Italy please chaps.

Do you think Italy will have any little tactical surprises up their sleeves...or will it be a predictable Italy

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 12:52 pm

Predictably we'll beat them. If they do have any surprises hopefully the ref is on top of it to call it correctly. Can only imagine it's going to be one way traffic though. If Te'o and Tuilagi do prove to be a bit 1 dimensional they may make it through to half time in a reasonably close 40.

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