Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

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Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 11:13 am

First topic message reminder :

Ireland v France

Lansdowne Road
15:00 10th March 2019
Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 2: Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

France Side, unchanged:
15. Thomas Ramos
14. Damien Penaud
13. Mathieu Bastareaud
12. Gael Fickou
11. Yoann Huget
10. Romain Ntamack
9. Antoine Dupont

1. Jefferson Poirot
2. Guilhem Guirado (captain)
3. Demba Bamba
4. Felix Lambey
5. Sebastien Vahaamahina
6. Wenceslas Lauret
7. Arthur Iturria
8. Louis Picamoles

Replacements:

16. Camille Chat
17. Etienne Falgoux
18. Dorian Aldegheri
19. Paul Willemse
20. Gregory Alldritt
21. Baptiste Serin
22. Anthony Belleau
23. Maxime Medard

Ireland side announced on Thursday at lunch time.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 5:53 pm

Gatland admitted his side probably had one eye on Ireland in their second half against Scotland. If so, it wasn't at all bad because I think it was a wonderful defending performance from them.
Yes, Schmidt and his players would have had the one eye on Wales too. Although a good performance today, it wasn't the stanard of the 'at least one' barnstorming game Ireland try to put in once a year in Six Nations.
Looks like it's going to be one helluva rocking roll concert from the Pro14 league next week! Wink

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by theslosty on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 5:56 pm

Bit disappointed after an excellent start. The intensity was back but accuracy of handling poor at times. Good to see Sexton back on song but we have to be more clinical than that, France were ripe for 50-60 points today.

Hope vdF is ok.
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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by miaow on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:Gatland  admitted his side probably had one eye on Ireland in their second half against Scotland.  If so, it wasn't at all bad because I think it was a wonderful defending performance from them.
Yes, Schmidt and his players would have had the one eye on Wales too.  Although a good performance today, it wasn't the stanard of the 'at least one' barnstorming game Ireland try to put in once a year in Six Nations.
Looks like it's going to be one helluva rocking roll concert from the Pro14 league next week!  Wink

Agree with a lot of that. No doubt Wales will be a lot, lot better against Ireland as well - they'll have been preparing for them as well, particularly in the off week. I imagine most of the work done last week was for Ireland, rather than Scotland. I also think this is best I've ever seen Wales defend. For all the headlines players like Hibbard and Roberts used to get when they put big shots on the opposition, as a team, technically, they are much better. Roberts, for instance, had poor defence either side of him and was exploited a few times - but it's more than just the personell. It's the ability to trust inside/outside defenders and actually keep a team out. Biggar's tackle on Hastings (I think it was anyway) was sublime. Yes, Scotland were a bit loose, and underpowered, but to effectively hold them out for the best part of 35 minutes camped on their own tryline is very impressive. That alone is encouraging for Ireland, where Wales were a bit...weak...in the game last season. Too many tries coming as a result of being a bit passive when camped on their line. That Scotland game will have acted as good practice for Ireland's grinding forwards.

Part of me hopes it is an amazing game. A bit looser, with some running rugby like in the second half of last year's game. But the other part of me would take a 9-3 nailbiter if it meant Wales sneak over the line and get the GS. Which would be Gatland's best, in my opinion. But still...long way to go before then.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:02 pm

Thought France's non-try needlessly knocked us out of rhythm again in that first half. We still held control of the game but those mistakes immediately seemed to creep in and things got disjointed. That confidence thing seems way to fragile and delicate in these last number of weeks. That's a fix needed - to play on and true even against the sucker punches.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:11 pm

Hope Cronin is back as a super sub next week. That subs bench needed something more dogged, defiant and mature coming off it. Cronin is a guy to keep some needed heat on. But then, the Welsh game is the kinda game that might ask Best to cling in there to the end anyway.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by sensisball on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:12 pm

There is absolutley no strucuture to France's play. Once they go past 6 or 7 phases they have no idea what they are supposed to do: apart from cough up a knock on or penalty.

Basteraud can still tackle and wins a couple of turnovers but has no place in any French team looking to play attacking rugby.

If Brunel takes the team to Japan then only a player revolt (a la 2011) will see them progress to the knockout phases.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:28 pm

France was a shamble today. Ireland a good win but France did not offer any sort of a challenge in my opinion. I did think that the first try that France had disallowed in the first 10 minutes was a bit unlucky. i thnought it went back wards.

Ireland well deserved winners totaly out played France all over the field.

I do think that Ireland will have to play better next week against Wales.
France did make it easy at time's for Ireland, but Wales will be a tougher team to beat.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:38 pm

Without a doubt, the pace leaders of this competition are England and Wales. Ireland will certainly have to up their game next week to have a chance. But I'd still urge all people to recall how badly Ireland have played this year ( and yep, how totally outplayed they were by a ferocious England) .... and then look at that current table and the figures. That's a pretty potent statement from a side that looks so off their best. If we could still pull off 2nd that would be a bloody great comeback and work oodles on confidence rates in a team supposedly needing a mental boost.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by westisbest on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:39 pm

theslosty wrote:Bit disappointed after an excellent start. The intensity was back but accuracy of handling poor at times. Good to see Sexton back on song but we have to be more clinical than that, France were ripe for 50-60 points today.

Hope vdF is ok.

Agree

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by robbo277 on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:40 pm

In that 2011 season France lost to Tonga in the pool stages. I think they remain the only team to lose twice and still qualify, and then they went on to make the final.

A similarly shambolic pool stage that sees them squeak through trading wins with Argentina and Tonga this year could be the trigger for a player revolt I guess, but I can't see it.

They'd likely play Wales/Australia and then Ireland/South Africa in the knockouts. In 2011 they played an okay England team and a slightly better Wales team who got reduced to 14 men early, so the draw was kinder to them.

Still, they should have even won the final.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:53 pm

Really good to see us kicking behind France so effectively. We've been too content to just batter away and then box kick recently. Ringrose kicking like that puts teams in a quandry,if they rush up he'll put it behind them but if they don't then he can attack the space or set his wingers free.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:55 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Murray is not playing well.


Neither is POM, he looks a bit soft around the ruck.

Shocking by POM. He is only topping the stats for turnovers and line outs. Rubbish

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 6:58 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Murray is not playing well.


Neither is POM, he looks a bit soft around the ruck.

Shocking by POM. He is only topping the stats for turnovers and line outs. Rubbish


Where are you getting stats for the teams?

Surely catching a ball at the lineout doesn't make you world class... We seen just how 'good' POM was on the Lions tour and in a certain Pro14 final. Jeez, one-eyed or what.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 7:02 pm

Yeah let's drop POM. Hope he reads 606.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by rodders on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 9:58 am

Well what to make of that.

Firstly it is hard not to be frustrated at Ireland conceding the 2 late scores and allowing such a flattering score to France.

Similar to the previous two wins there is some satisfaction to get the result but also the realization that if we'd have been a bit more clinical we'd be going into next week with a genuine chance of winning the championship rather than needing other results to go our way.

That said it was a much improved performance. Regardless of how poor France were I thought we completely shut them out of the game for 70 odd minutes.

The handling was much better and we were able to play with a lot more tempo. The set piece was strong again and individually there were a lot of good performances, particularly Sexton who looked a bit closer to his best. Up front Ryan and Henderson had great games and Ringrose just adds another dimension to the back line. Larmour had his best game so far and Earls looked sharp as well.

On the downside only scoring 4 tries with so much territory and possession is a worry and defensively we still look a bit vulnerable.

I do think we can go to Cardiff with a genuine chance but need to be better again.

I expect Beirne, O'Brien, Kearney, Henshaw, Cronin and Carbury may come into the 23 if they are fit to freshen things up.
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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:17 am

Delighted with how the forwards played yesterday, strong carries and plenty of physicality, Henderson, Ryan and Healy etc. Sexton was also excellent. Murray though still seems a bit out of sorts and not firing on all cylinders. Think he needs to stop reacting to opponents a bit and get on with it.

It was also not O'Mahony's finest game. He seems to be prone to getting a bit riled up lately and opponents are getting under his skin. Some choice language from him at one point when having a tussle with his opposite number.

It was also disappointing how Ireland couldn't kick on and rack up a cricket score against an absolutely once ever 100 years dire France side. I think Larmour needs to pick his moments to back his pace and just run straight rather than going for the side step all the time. A couple more side steps and he is basically just Alex Goode.

Keith Earls was fantastic again, never in doubt how good he is.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:35 am

Throw caution to the wind. Leave Kearney, O'Brien, perhaps even Henshaw and Carbery out. The 23 that won yesterday need a second go to be given a chance to hone the bits (especially that way too adventurous second half stint by the benchers) that need work.

They did enough and now have cohesion enough as a unit to be thrown out there again mostly unchanged.

I especially think it's time now (even in such a big game and probably because of it) to put Larmour back in instantly. He's a player, like Ringrose, that if he gets to bed down and become more comfortable, has the ability to get more instinctive attack ambitions going with this Irish squad. It's all too training field moves still when space is crying out to be used more instinctively.
Larmour is still very raw, for me he's still very tense at International level. He's trying a bit too hard at times. So he needs more time now, not less, to really settle him down.

Oh Cronin should come back in. Perhaps the only one I think the subs neeðed to give more bite to their final quarter challenge.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 1:52 pm

Larmour did well enough but he also butchered an easy walk-in try for Stockdale by backing himself to beat two covering players. On another run he made a lot of yards but ran away from support and has to learn to stay on his feet a tad longer when snagged to avoid the inevitable holding on penalty.
Wales will undoubtedly be launching a few bombs so Kearney is still the man to deal with them on Saturday. Jordan will get his chance from the bench.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 1:59 pm

Yep, Aukster that's a pretty accurate reading of my thoughts on his performance too. But the only difference is the conclusion. I think Joe should point out clearly his weaknesses from that game but throw him in again... allow the continuity of learning in high stakes heated games. The alternative to Kearney needs to be bedded down lest Kearney doesn't even manage to get on the plane. Larmour needs continuity because if he gets it and he gets told off about the mistakes, Stockdale and others have a weapon there to put gloss on all their performances.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by rodders on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 2:05 pm

I agree Larmour still has things to work on but all things considered he had a decent game, albeit he wasn't tested much defensively.

Stockdale didn't have his best day either and generally the back 3 is still an area of weakness for me. For all the possession and territory we have we work very hard for our tries.

It's a pity Addison has been injured, I do think he offers a bit more of a spark in attack.
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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 12 Mar 2019, 2:12 pm

sensisball wrote:There is absolutley no strucuture to France's play. Once they go past 6 or 7 phases they have no idea what they are supposed to do: apart from cough up a knock on or penalty.

Basteraud can still tackle and wins a couple of turnovers but has no place in any French team looking to play attacking rugby.

If Brunel takes the team to Japan then only a player revolt (a la 2011) will see them progress to the knockout phases.

Harsh on Basteraud. Personally I think he is one of their better players, he has good hands, pace and agility for a guy his size. He barely got the ball on Sunday.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by sensisball on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 9:57 am

As you say Basteraud hardly got the ball so didn't have much chance to run, very slowly, or pass, very poorly. He was able to contribute to the stratospheric tackle count and won a couple of turnovers that stopped it being a total capitulation.
Making head-on tackles and turning over the odd ball is surely not enough to keep a 13 shirt when Penaud or Lamerat can offer so much more in attack. If France are to have a crack at the world cup in a country with high temperatures and humidity Brunel surely cannot keep picking a guy who is carrying about 15kg of flab and is blowing out of his *rse after 50 minutes of play in a match in European winter?

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 10:02 am

In my view he is a good passer. He has a decent offload and is one of the wiser French players. Is he really that slow? Yep he is a big guy but he is pretty mobile for someone his size

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 10:09 am

We'll think of how much easier it might have been for Ireland had Basteraud not been playing....slowly? To me, although limited to the one shirt he was wearing, he was France's main threat of causing us mischief and perhaps breaking through our defensive wall and offloading to something quicker. By no means was he France's weakest link.
You can't attack if you don't have the ball. At least the man has heart for a fight unlike a lot of his sharper toed buddies.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by sensisball on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 10:48 am

If your objective is blunt your attacking threats out wide and resort to a defensive game plan then Basteraud is your man.
I suppose in one sense his selection is academic.
France have no attacking game plan, even when they have the ball, so it doesn't really matter who plays 13 as their opportunities are limited to opposition mistakes eg. against Scotland. As the best teams offer very few mistakes to capitalize on they wont be running the ball in the wide channels more than a handful of times in a game.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by whocares on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 1:14 pm

Given the current form of French players, the only centre I would pick above Bastareaud would be Fofana (if fit). Players like Lamerat or Doumayrou are glorified donkeys that, might be quicker, but are not as skilled as Bastareaud. Going forward (after the WC and hopefully with a real coaching team) I would move NTamack to 12 with maybe Fickou outside and have Carbonel / Jalibert fighting for the number 10 jersey. My biggest concern is on the forwards though. They looked like boys vs men last Sunday, completely smashed in all collisions. The reality is while we can compete at the breakdown against most teams when our players are playing at 100%, organised / structured teams like Ireland or England are simply unplayable for us when they are « on » (also valid for Wales, NZ etc). Would love to get someone that has very high standards and a touch of grumpyness as our next head coach (yes am looking at you Gatland/shaun Edwards and Mcbryde) but don’t think it would work with players unless they are willing to get rid of half of them. Sadly we will probably end up with a muppet like Galthie and nothing will change .

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 1:25 pm

Yeah, I've been thinking about that too, Whocares. A left of field move for Gatland? Ireland are covered. I don't think England despite it beinlg the big money paying side.
So that leaves Scotland or France. I think Gatland would love the challenge of either of those two if his hint that he might not be gone from 6N altogether. Gatland and France - potent idea. Yep, he'd like to see the faces in the media if that were ever announced.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:08 pm

whocares wrote:Given the current form of French players, the only centre I would pick above Bastareaud would be Fofana (if fit). Players like Lamerat or Doumayrou are glorified donkeys that, might be quicker, but are not as skilled as Bastareaud. Going forward (after the WC and hopefully with a real coaching team) I would move NTamack to 12 with maybe Fickou outside and have Carbonel / Jalibert fighting for the number 10 jersey. My biggest concern is on the forwards though. They looked like boys vs men last Sunday, completely smashed in all collisions. The reality is while we can compete at the breakdown against most teams when our players are playing at 100%, organised / structured teams like Ireland or England are simply unplayable for us when they are « on » (also valid for Wales, NZ etc). Would love to get someone that has very high standards and a touch of grumpyness as our next head coach (yes am looking at you Gatland/shaun Edwards and Mcbryde) but don’t think it would work with players unless they are willing to get rid of half of them. Sadly we will probably end up with a muppet like Galthie and nothing will change .

France would never pick a foreign coach would they? If you are looking for someone grumpy, Cheika may be available soon. He is good at structure.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by whocares on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:13 pm

No don’t see Laporte and his croonies able to take such brave decision but in desperate times who knows... if there were to go that route Vern Cotter would be heavy favourite because he knows most of French players .

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by miaow on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:26 pm

I think the 'best' thing for French rugby will be if/when the global season rearranges the club game. I cannot see any large, structural changes in French rugby until the club game is secondary to the international game - and that will only happen with something happening to shake things up.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:32 pm

whocares wrote:No don’t see Laporte and his croonies able to take such brave decision but in desperate times who knows... if there were to go that route Vern Cotter would be heavy favourite because he knows most of French players .

That's a good shout.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by rodders on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:37 pm

Or Joe Schmidt ... censored
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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by sensisball on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:42 pm

After a promising first season with Montpelllier when they finished top of the regular season they then choked badly in the final and lost convincingly to Castres.

They don't appear to have recovered mentally this season and they are struggling to make it into the top 6. They have had also suffered the ignominy of the "donkey" Damien Penaud scoring against them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SND8fDF_R6s

he is "slightly" quicker than Basteraud but he is still a bit of a donkey and clearly nowhere near as skillful.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:50 pm

Jesus that was a howler of a kick from Cruden. What a flop he has been.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by sensisball on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 6:05 pm

Montpellier havent really mentally recovered from losing last year's T14 final. Pienaar played the worst game i have ever seen from him in the final. Missed most of his kicks at goal, his passing was erratic and decision making was awful.  He was overshadowed by his former Sharks team mate  Rory Cockott, who bossed the show for Castres. Cruden's form has got worse and worse. Not sure if he will want to prolong his French adventure for another season.

Stern Vern's gloss has definitely worn off after the great job he did at Murrayfield.

If Montpellier dont make the barrage this season he may get binned by the owner who is not averse to sacking "failing" coaches. In which case he would be available to start with Les Bleus after Japan, if he was wanted.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by SecretFly on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 7:11 pm

Em.... you're not selling him very well, sensisball. He needs a new agent Wink

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by whocares on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 7:31 pm

I didn’t say Penaud was a donkey ! The fact is with current lack of fit wingers he is very much needed on the wing rather than on midfield

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

Post by sensisball on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 9:32 am

Sorry whocares

Only pulling your leg. You did write Lamerat was a donkey, which I still find strange as I think he is a considerably fitter, a better offloader and passer and actually has a bit more pace than Basteraud. You also wrote that Fofana (best position 12) was the only French centre you rated higher than Basteraud who plays 13.

Its true that if Raka hadn't been injured (broken forearm) he would probably have started this 6 N's for France on the wing. However Penaud has been playing most his club season on the wing at the request of Jacques Brunel, because he sees him as a winger rather than a centre, which reduces competition for the centre slots.

For this 6 N's Brunel could have chosen to pick Sofiane Guitoune, who is currently playing 13 for Toulouse but has spent most of his career as a winger. It was on the wing that he picked up his 5 French caps. He has some of the best stats this season for defenders beaten but his passing is still winger-like.
With Penaud at 13 and Guitoune on the wing France would have real attacking threat out wide and through the middle and two players playing in their natural positions.

It seems as if Brunel is simply refusing to pick the best players at his disposal to protect Basteraud. Who knows maybe I'm just getting cynical in my old age.

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Re: Ireland v France, 10th March 2018 15:00

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